Tuesday 23rd August 2016

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:02 pm

Sarkozy's platform for election is very rightwing indeed, far more so than the UK Tories

http://www.eurointelligence.com/public/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:04 pm

yahyah wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:The last of the hot air from me for now...

The weird things farmers are doing to save the environment from flatulent cows

Worth a look just for the backpack-wielding cow photos:

In Argentina, some farmers are strapping backpacks onto cows, using the outerwear as a holding receptacle for the gas. According to the nation’s ministry of agribusiness, the backpacks are able to capture some of the nearly 300 liters of methane each cow emits per day, enough to produce the energy (Spanish) needed to run a refrigerator for a day.
We accidentally came across about thirty cattle of both sexes on our walk this morning.
They were hidden by a steep hill in the field.
When they all start moving quickly towards you, staring, and their nostrils flare, the last thing you worry about is how much they fart.

I've encountered unexpected bovine herds running towards me in fields. I high-tailed it out with haste. I prefer meeting sheep.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:05 pm

just because you write a shite blog and have a view doesn't mean you are right you know

if Corbyn shares some of the blame so do the bloody MPs who could not persuade their constituencies to vote for remain but who were only too happy to blame the leadership - funnily enough I actually don't blame either! But if I was to blame one side over the other it wouldn't be the leadership but actually it doesn't help the party and is irrelevant

The blame lies with the Tories, any attempt to spread this only helps them and allows Cameron to escape the bit barrel of shit that should be poured on the most inept PM to have ever held the role

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:14 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:The last of the hot air from me for now...

The weird things farmers are doing to save the environment from flatulent cows

Worth a look just for the backpack-wielding cow photos:

In Argentina, some farmers are strapping backpacks onto cows, using the outerwear as a holding receptacle for the gas. According to the nation’s ministry of agribusiness, the backpacks are able to capture some of the nearly 300 liters of methane each cow emits per day, enough to produce the energy (Spanish) needed to run a refrigerator for a day.

Looking at that photo you can see where the cow has been shaved (top right, just under the pack) this suggests to me that a needle (or tube) has been inserted directly into the animals gut to collect the gas rather than in its bum. The positioning of the tube in the lower photo suggest the same.
More farmyard abuse.
Ack.
(Ack at the procedure, not the messenger!)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:22 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:snip

It was David Cameron. It was George Osborne. It was Boris Johnson. It was Michael Gove. It was Theresa May. They're the ones who cost us our membership of the EU in the referendum. It was their ineptitude, their duplicity, their silence that blew it. It was fuck all to do with Labour.

Agreed. Devastatingly irresponsible and harmful political action caused entirely by current Tory government. Most people in this country will be adversely affected in some way. UK citizens living, working abroad, UK social, political and economic interests internationally will suffer. Current Tory government made this happen. They opened the door to a witless EU referendum sloppily put together by Tory government alone and even they're ashy grey looking over the result.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:23 pm

Just interested to see Dennis McShane (yes him of the expenses scandal shame) that A50 will not be invoked until later than 2017 - if that is the unlikely case will we still have EU elections in 2019?

Won't that be a bit silly?

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:24 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 83666.html

Don't know if anyone read/linked to this at the time (by John Rentoul), but it seems to suggest that most Labour voters were already pro eu at the time,
markedly different to Brexit being Corbyns fault.

That assumption by Labour voters that Corbyn supports Britain's membership of the EU is what today's speech is all about. The poll is a vindication of Corbyn's decision to adjust his long-held Euroscepticism.

Most Tory voters were/are pro-Brexit.

Most Labour voters were/are pro-Remain.

Which is why Cameron was a hostage to Labour: he needed Labour to get out its voters.

now, even if Corbyn had campaigned vigorously (eg with as much vigor as he is now showing campaigning for the leadership) I doubt whether Remain would have won. The gap was too big.

But

1. I don't believe Corbyn really is for Remain. His actions on the morning after the referendum were, for me, sufficient proof (along with his decades of opposition to the EU prior to the leadership campaign of 2015). This was the cause of his inactivity.

2. there were most certainly those close to Corbyn who did their best to undermine the Remain campaign (one person we have already discussed today).

So, his actions made a contribution (even if they were not decisive).

Which is why we are now having a leadership contest, when the rebels would have tactically been better off waiting until next year,

Sorry, my reason for linking to the article, wasn't questioning Corbyn's views, it was that it shows a change in how his views/actions were reported before/during/after the referendum.
At the time of his speech it was explaining why he needed to show that he supported staying in EU, because it was expected of him by the majority of Labour supporters, strikingly different to later claims.
Early in the campaign it was claimed that up to 50% of 'labour voters' didn't know what Labour policy was (based partly on focus groups, partly on misidentifying 'working class' voters as Labour when they were probably ukip etc)
By the end of the campaign they seem to have settled on 20-30% not knowing, and it all being Corbyn's fault.
I find it hard to believe that very many (actual)labour voters could have been unaware of the party view, apart from those who probably wouldn't have cared anway, Arguably some may have been influenced by Labour brexit supporting Mps being given massive coverage on radio & TV.
Following the referendum Corbyn may well prefer to go along with the Brexit vote, and if so it's right & proper for Owen Smith or others to challenge this if they wish, but I don't believe Corbyns actions during the referendum were the trigger for the coup, just an oppotune excuse.
(apologies for just repeating old arguments)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:38 pm

You know where I went wrong? Forgetting to thank everyone. LadyCenturia taught me to thank everyone on the thread. I love and miss her. If I forget thanks, please have patience with me.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:45 pm

Interesting read by Matthew Laza.

Ed Miliband's television guru explains why pop culture and TV are crucial to Labour's election success.

http://europe.newsweek.com/jeremy-corby ... ith-491890

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 1:51 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:One final comment from me on the Hugo derailment de jour:

It wasn't Corbyn.
It wasn't Milne.
It wasn't Stephen Kinnock.
It wasn't Angela Eagle.
It wasn't Owen Smith.
It wasn't even Peter Bloody Mandelson or Alan Invisible Johnson

It was David Cameron. It was George Osborne. It was Boris Johnson. It was Michael Gove. It was Theresa May. They're the ones who cost us our membership of the EU in the referendum. It was their ineptitude, their duplicity, their silence that blew it. It was fuck all to do with Labour.

The tories got us into it, and there's a possibility, however remote, they can get us out of it. I can live with 4 more years of tory government if it means they find a way.

It's been said that only the tories can scrap Trident, imo the same applies to staying in the EU. A majority of Labour voters wanted to remain but Labour can't afford to lose the large minority that didn't. Tories, on the other hand, will hold themselves together somehow.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:08 pm

JA@

LadyC was indeed a sterling example of how to behave compassionately in life and online.

Just got my security codes, and voted.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:13 pm

Another PR triumph for Seumas

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Honest politics"

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:15 pm

Virgin Trains dispute that Corbyn needed to sit on the floor.
They have issued a press release.

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:19 pm

pk1 wrote:Interesting read by Matthew Laza.

Ed Miliband's television guru explains why pop culture and TV are crucial to Labour's election success.
http://europe.newsweek.com/jeremy-corby ... ith-491890

This sort of validates how press/TV ignorance hampers elect-ability, anybody with a bit of press nonce would have no-no'ed this train trip idea at the get go.

Revealed: Jeremy Corbyn had a seat during train journey he suggested was so ‘ram-packed’ he had to sit on floor

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... he-claime/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:19 pm

Just to add to the comedic quality of this fakery, here is our glorious leader complaining in Parliament about inoperative CCTV on the rail network

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?i ... 133#g319.1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:21 pm

Snap and snap !

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:22 pm

Where are the unreserved seats? I can only see one. I can also testify that virgin trains and cross country trains are usually overcrowded.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:25 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Where are the unreserved seats? I can only see one. I can also testify that virgin trains and cross country trains are usually overcrowded.

Read the Virgin report posted by Yahyah
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"CCTV footage taken from the train on August 11 shows Mr Corbyn and his team walked past empty, unreserved seats in coach H before walking through the rest of the train to the far end, where his team sat on the floor and started filming."

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:27 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Where are the unreserved seats? I can only see one. I can also testify that virgin trains and cross country trains are usually overcrowded.

Quite clearly there are unreserved seats in that pic (though not many). Even clearer in second picture here

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/v ... vpN9BnmVE6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If only there were in fact trains that we could guarantee would be full for this stunt.

(Like any train out of London around 6pm on a weekday).

if you are going to lie, don't get caught.

[Oh, and the cctv footage on Virgin's website is time stamped. They could have faked it of course, but....]

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:32 pm

I don't think someone like Jeremy will let this derail him.

Not with his principled platform.

He is an engine for good.

Though the campaign cannot afford passengers.

Just the ticket to cheer us all up.

etc etc

The attempted denials are Virgin on the ridiculous.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:34 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Where are the unreserved seats? I can only see one. I can also testify that virgin trains and cross country trains are usually overcrowded.
Read the Virgin report posted by Yahyah
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"CCTV footage taken from the train on August 11 shows Mr Corbyn and his team walked past empty, unreserved seats in coach H before walking through the rest of the train to the far end, where his team sat on the floor and started filming."

I have read it. All that footage shows is one unreserved seat.
Corbyn would not have known that the reserved ones wouldn't be taken and didn't want to take a single spare when he had a film crew and aides with him. Virgin trains are nearly always overcrowded in my experience. I've stood all the way to York more than once.

Mensch and Branson: the anti-Corbyn mob are getting very desperate.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:36 pm

frightful_oik wrote: Mensch and Branson: the anti-Corbyn mob are getting very desperate.

Well, there is some desperation about, I think we can agree on that.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:40 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Where are the unreserved seats? I can only see one. I can also testify that virgin trains and cross country trains are usually overcrowded.
Read the Virgin report posted by Yahyah
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"CCTV footage taken from the train on August 11 shows Mr Corbyn and his team walked past empty, unreserved seats in coach H before walking through the rest of the train to the far end, where his team sat on the floor and started filming."
I have read it. All that footage shows is one unreserved seat.
Corbyn would not have known that the reserved ones wouldn't be taken and didn't want to take a single spare when he had a film crew and aides with him. Virgin trains are nearly always overcrowded in my experience. I've stood all the way to York more than once.

Mensch and Branson: the anti-Corbyn mob are getting very desperate.

"CCTV footage taken from the train on August 11 shows Mr Corbyn and his team walked past empty, unreserved seats in coach H before walking through the rest of the train to the far end, where his team sat on the floor and started filming."

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:41 pm

Owen Smith banter

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:45 pm

Other Virgin Train pics are here on their website:
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe M15 photoshopped out the reservation cards ?

Or other elite Establishment 'dark forces' are involved
Blimey if Smith was the topic of this press release he'd be forced to wear sackcloth and be run out of town.

Sorry, but it just tickles me, will wait to hear the Corbyn team story, am sure they must have one.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:47 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: Read the Virgin report posted by Yahyah
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/me ... ce-1530005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"CCTV footage taken from the train on August 11 shows Mr Corbyn and his team walked past empty, unreserved seats in coach H before walking through the rest of the train to the far end, where his team sat on the floor and started filming."
I have read it. All that footage shows is one unreserved seat.
Corbyn would not have known that the reserved ones wouldn't be taken and didn't want to take a single spare when he had a film crew and aides with him. Virgin trains are nearly always overcrowded in my experience. I've stood all the way to York more than once.

Mensch and Branson: the anti-Corbyn mob are getting very desperate.
"CCTV footage taken from the train on August 11 shows Mr Corbyn and his team walked past empty, unreserved seats in coach H before walking through the rest of the train to the far end, where his team sat on the floor and started filming."

But the photo there shows no such thing. They only released the footage to our fair and balanced msm.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:48 pm

Sorry, for some reason the other ones won't show as an image, check out the link with the pic.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:51 pm

Seven-day NHS: Labour demands inquiry as leak reveals crisis warning
Doctors in senior Tory ranks also join chorus of concern that health service is too short of GPs and proposed funding increase will not cover extra costs

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:52 pm

Frightful Oik.

Read the press release link, check out where it tells the reader there are more images, and where to find them, on the Virgin website.

I've provided the link above of the pics. So the 'there were only reserved seats' excuse is not true unless someone thinks it is a conspiracy by Virgin Trains. That suggestion will no doubt be getting some welly on Twitter.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:56 pm

Perhaps the rail enthusiast and frequent train traveler Jeremy Corbyn didn't realise that he could have sat in any one of the reserved seats that had not been used?

"ram-packed" is also a typical example of JC mangling English.

Labour need a squirrel. Where is the squirrel Seumas?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:59 pm

Brexit to cost Merseyside up to £92m in lost EU funding

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:02 pm

What an unpleasant place this is today.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:04 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Perhaps the rail enthusiast and frequent train traveler Jeremy Corbyn didn't realise that he could have sat in any one of the reserved seats that had not been used?

"ram-packed" is also a typical example of JC mangling English.

Labour need a squirrel. Where is the squirrel Seumas?

Not til the train has departed. I found the pictures but I want to see the footage. There's nothing conclusive.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:09 pm

i apologise without reservation.

I'm only here between announcements of not being.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:10 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Owen Smith banter

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hoorah, 'ordinary people' instead of the usual 'working people' that effectively excludes people like me who are unable to work ! How refreshing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:10 pm

pk1 wrote:Interesting read by Matthew Laza.
Ed Miliband's television guru explains why pop culture and TV are crucial to Labour's election success.
http://europe.newsweek.com/jeremy-corby ... ith-491890

I recommend reading this article in its entirety. Ed Miliband's former broadcast television consultant brought in to help Miliband
in May 2014. Was that too late? Did it matter? Probably. Are television broadcast consultants essential for Labour? It's hard to read,
you know? I like Miliband talking with lefty bloggers. I like politicians who don't court mainstream media because I'm not happy with
it. That's my own personal issue. I get confused inundated by a lot of moving information. The fact remains, most people get their
information from broadcast media.

"Appearing on air is the definition of talking to the country, not the party—of trying to convince, not preach to the converted.
The crossest I ever got with Ed was when he spent two hours on the phone to lefty bloggers—two hours where he should have
been doing local radio phone-ins.

That is the key lesson any Labour leader should learn. Jeremy’s refusal to debate on Channel 4 News and elsewhere is worrying.
Like it or not, the voters Labour needs to stand still , never mind actually win, are out there in the dark watching the box in the
corner. However much the critics of the “mainstream” media might wish it otherwise."

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:17 pm

citizenJA wrote: I recommend reading this article in its entirety. Ed Miliband's former broadcast television consultant brought in to help Miliband
in May 2014. Was that too late? Did it matter? Probably. Are television broadcast consultants essential for Labour?

Exactly. By 2014 most people had probably decided Ed wasn't 'prime ministerial' & by then it was too late to influence them.

If Corbyn is re-elected, he needs to pay heed to the advice & sharpen up his team & his performances on the, now reviled, 'mainstream media'

No matter what one thinks of it, the media is essential in getting one's message across to the electorate. Papers still get purchased daily & TV is watched by millions every hour of the day.

Rejecting the opportunity to appear on the media is the decision of a fool.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:18 pm

pk1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Owen Smith banter

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hoorah, 'ordinary people' instead of the usual 'working people' that effectively excludes people like me who are unable to work ! How refreshing.

I think 'ordinary' people is an appalling phrase...does that imply he and others are extraordinary

Why can they never say just people!

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:26 pm

Oh dear, apparently Virgin trains is the Labour party's official train company up to the conference in Liverpool.

#awks

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:29 pm

ephemerid wrote:What an unpleasant place this is today.

The links may be misleading and we can just calmly sort it out. I've not investigated the links, if they're wrong, the friends we have here will admit they're wrong. Are we really sure about these links? Have we alternative documentation? Let's just figure out the truth. Please, everyone.

I couldn't set anything up in media because I'd blow it by telling everyone about the set up and then it wouldn't be a set up. I'll never be Prime Minister. Or President. I might be a councillor. Maybe.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:31 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
pk1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Owen Smith banter

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hoorah, 'ordinary people' instead of the usual 'working people' that effectively excludes people like me who are unable to work ! How refreshing.

I think 'ordinary' people is an appalling phrase...does that imply he and others are extraordinary

Why can they never say just people!

It's a minefield, though, isn't it? If they just say "people" there's bound to be somebody out there who will say (or, more likely, "Tweet") "Oh, so speaking up for everybody - including those on more than £200,000 pa salaries?"

Edited to add an "l"

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ephemerid wrote:What an unpleasant place this is today.
The links may be misleading and we can just calmly sort it out. I've not investigated the links, if they're wrong, the friends we have here will admit they're wrong. Are we really sure about these links? Have we alternative documentation? Let's just figure out the truth. Please, everyone.

I couldn't set anything up in media because I'd blow it by telling everyone about the set up and then it wouldn't be a set up. I'll never be Prime Minister. Or President. I might be a councillor. Maybe.

It's not the links that are bothering me.

I'll be off now until this whole ridiculous leadership circus is over.

Those who I care about know where to find me.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:51 pm

PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
pk1 wrote: Hoorah, 'ordinary people' instead of the usual 'working people' that effectively excludes people like me who are unable to work ! How refreshing.

I think 'ordinary' people is an appalling phrase...does that imply he and others are extraordinary

Why can they never say just people!

It's a minefield, though, isn't it? If they just say "people" there's bound to be somebody out there who will say (or, more likely, "Tweet") "Oh, so speaking up for everybody - including those on more than £200,000 pa salaries?"

Edited to add an "l"

Maybe he should have used "Peasants","Surfs" or "Common People",
or if trying for more widespread acceptance,
"Fellow Peasants" might be seen as warmer & less controversial.

edited, forgot to indicate non serious intent, through use of emoticon device.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:57 pm

Coach H is non-reservable on a Virgin Train, which is why no reservation tickets are visible. Fwiw.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/g ... 15-dl1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 3:59 pm

Just seen this on Twitter. Peter Walker is the Guardian political correspondent.
Whether it convinces anyone depends to an extent what they want to believe.
Personally I can't understand why someone running a privatised railway franchise is attacking someone who wants to renationalise the service.

: 2016-08-23_155401.jpg (119.28 KiB) Viewed 12260 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 4:02 pm

Mike Oldfield once left a secret message to Richard Branson on one of his elpees.

: ScreenShot01547.jpg (111.56 KiB) Viewed 12253 times

http://www.cracked.com/article_19647_th ... ustry.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 4:02 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Coach H is non-reservable on a Virgin Train, which is why no reservation tickets are visible. Fwiw.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/g ... 15-dl1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which is why its odd he walked passed empty unreserved seats. Why not just sit down there where there were (from the photo above) enough seats for him and his companions.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 4:03 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Coach H is non-reservable on a Virgin Train, which is why no reservation tickets are visible. Fwiw.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/g ... 15-dl1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So who is allowed to sit in those seats then ?
The link doesn't work, am not being lazy, that's why I'm asking. If they are nonreservable then they can be used surely ?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 4:03 pm

Correction. Running a completely shit, overcharging privatised rail service.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 4:06 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Coach H is non-reservable on a Virgin Train, which is why no reservation tickets are visible. Fwiw.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/g ... 15-dl1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which is why its odd he walked passed empty unreserved seats. Why not just sit down there where there were (from the photo above) enough seats for him and his companions.

I suspect this is one of those things were people will believe what they want to believe.
If it were Smith in the limelight, Virgin's press operation would of course be a paragon of impartiality and truth.