Tuesday 23rd August 2016

[yahyah]

Correction. Running a completely shit, overcharging privatised rail service.

Now that's something we can all agree on today.

[AngryAsWell]

Correction. Running a completely shit, overcharging privatised rail service.

Must admit the Virgin trains I've been on have been clean & on time (except one horrid trip) but totally agree on the "overcharging privatised rail service." Prices are extortionate.

[yahyah]

Is this the woman the Guardian writer has quoted ?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqjX3VaW8AEMxBU.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[citizenJA]

Hoorah, 'ordinary people' instead of the usual 'working people' that effectively excludes people like me who are unable to work ! How refreshing.

I think 'ordinary' people is an appalling phrase...does that imply he and others are extraordinary

Why can they never say just people!

It's a minefield, though, isn't it? If they just say "people" there's bound to be somebody out there who will say (or, more likely, "Tweet") "Oh, so speaking up for everybody - including those on more than £200,000 pa salaries?"
Edited to add an "l"

regular people, consistent people, balanced people, everyday people, proper people, routine people, present-day people, usual people, classic people, general people,
natural people, current people, bona-fide people, habitual people, prevailing people, legit people, popular people, daily people, recognisable people, welcomed people

[danesclose]

Coach H is non-reservable on a Virgin Train, which is why no reservation tickets are visible. Fwiw.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/g ... 15-dl1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which is why its odd he walked passed empty unreserved seats. Why not just sit down there where there were (from the photo above) enough seats for him and his companions.

I suspect this is one of those things were people will believe what they want to believe.
If it were Smith in the limelight, Virgin's press operation would of course be a paragon of impartiality and truth.

Likewise as its Corbyn in the limelight, Virgin's press operation is of course a paragon of impartiality & truth to many people, and if it were Smith in the limelight they would be lying scumbags.
In this case I think Corbyn is being pilloried without all of the information being published.
As they say, a lie can be half way around the world before truth has its boots on

[pk1]

I think 'ordinary' people is an appalling phrase...does that imply he and others are extraordinary

Why can they never say just people!

It's a minefield, though, isn't it? If they just say "people" there's bound to be somebody out there who will say (or, more likely, "Tweet") "Oh, so speaking up for everybody - including those on more than £200,000 pa salaries?"
Edited to add an "l"

regular people, consistent people, balanced people, everyday people, proper people, routine people, present-day people, usual people, classic people, general people,
natural people, current people, bona-fide people, habitual people, prevailing people, legit people, popular people, daily people, recognisable people, welcomed people

Yes, ordinary people.

[danesclose]

It's a minefield, though, isn't it? If they just say "people" there's bound to be somebody out there who will say (or, more likely, "Tweet") "Oh, so speaking up for everybody - including those on more than £200,000 pa salaries?"
Edited to add an "l"

regular people, consistent people, balanced people, everyday people, proper people, routine people, present-day people, usual people, classic people, general people,
natural people, current people, bona-fide people, habitual people, prevailing people, legit people, popular people, daily people, recognisable people, welcomed people

Yes, ordinary people.

The phrase "Ordinary people" can be misconstrued. During the Tory leadership elections, Leadsome tried to imply she was ordinary, and May was not, because she had children.
To some people "ordinary people" means non-LGBT people. To others, it means non-disabled people

[citizenJA]

regular people, consistent people, balanced people, everyday people, proper people, routine people, present-day people, usual people, classic people, general people,
natural people, current people, bona-fide people, habitual people, prevailing people, legit people, popular people, daily people, recognisable people, welcomed people

Yes, ordinary people.

I'm fine with that.

[pk1]

Coach H is non-reservable on a Virgin Train, which is why no reservation tickets are visible. Fwiw.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/g ... 15-dl1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So who is allowed to sit in those seats then ?
The link doesn't work, am not being lazy, that's why I'm asking. If they are nonreservable then they can be used surely ?

Hopefully this will work

[danesclose]

Is this the woman the Guardian writer has quoted ?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqjX3VaW8AEMxBU.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't know, do you?
All I know is that Peter Walker (the Guardian writer, not the ex Thatcher minister) has asked Virgin to release the CCTV footage from the corridors. Until that's done, people are making suppositions based on inadequate data.

[HindleA]

A game I usually had to play was to politely request the person sitting in my reserved accompanying seat if they would move,I showed leeway if the journey wasn't long or there were no other seats-there usually was-observing reserved or not situations was shall we say variable,quite often nearly everybody was in the wrong seat and just moved if requested in a sort of semi musical chairs party game.One of the reasons where now given the choice I sit on flip seat in between or on bag,that and in readiness to escape run and leap barriers,knock over people etc to find a place of safety and nicotine replacement.

#usually was because if possible a non busy (relatively) train time chosen.

[tinybgoat]

Theory 1/
I reckon he wanted a table seat, possibly for filming,
probably the tables in coach H were taken, or possibly near a smelly toilet (both normal occurrences), so Corbyn & party carried on through train. Once they'd found no suitable seats available, they would have then found that previously vacant seats were also taken at which point they chose to sign on the floor.
Alternatively it may have been a stunt, but that would imply a degree of stupidity, previously not exhibited.
Theory 2/
Jeremy Corbyn did it(obviously), in the Dining Car with the Lead piping.

[HindleA]

I am still in shock George Osborne isn't a qualified brick layer.

[citizenJA]

I don't like Virgin, me

Tubular Bells "the first exploitation"

If I need to get somewhere and it's all there is and that's most of the time, I have to board the thing, you know?
Costs too much, too
I don't treat the employees, self-employed victims, workers bad though - it's not their fault

[citizenJA]

I am still in shock George Osborne isn't a qualified brick layer.

I'm in shock George Osborne isn't layered in qualified brick.

[citizenJA]

Theory 1/
I reckon he wanted a table seat, possibly for filming,
probably the tables in coach H were taken, or possibly near a smelly toilet (both normal occurrences), so Corbyn & party carried on through train. Once they'd found no suitable seats available, they would have then found that previously vacant seats were also taken at which point they chose to sign on the floor.
Alternatively it may have been a stunt, but that would imply a degree of stupidity, previously not exhibited.
Theory 2/
Jeremy Corbyn did it(obviously), in the Dining Car with the Lead piping.

Tubular Bells playing in the background the whole time
gave me chills

[citizenJA]

JA@

LadyC was indeed a sterling example of how to behave compassionately in life and online.


Just got my security codes, and voted.

[SpinningHugo]

Correction. Running a completely shit, overcharging privatised rail service.

Nobody else here will agree with this, but....

1. It isn't privatised. Rail was re-nationalised by Prescott in 2002. Network Rail is now part of the UK state in all but formal name (it is for accounting purposes now within).

2. The franchise system set up by Prescott works well. So, Virgin East Coast returns much more to the Treasury under its current franchise deal than did East Coast TOC when the line temporarily was run by the state. The much publicised problems with Southern Rail is the system working, not failing. if you don't operate the line effectively, you'll lose your franchise.

A public owned network with private franchises operating under licence is a nationalised system.

3. Rail prices are too low. State subsidies should be reduced to zero and the network should operate on a commercial basis. Rail travel is environmentally damaging and it is a market distortion to subsidise it (see especially house prices). There is no excuse for subsidising commuters into London who are as a class the richest people in the country. Yes rail travel is less environmentally damaging than some other forms of travel, but only in the same way that burning gas is less bad than burning coal.

Stop the subsidy, distribute the saved expense to the poor. Giving poor people money is much more effective and just than subsidising rail.

4. Corbyn has been caught telling a fib on cctv cameras. Unless there are some more facts we don't yet know, denying it looks a bit daft.

[tinybgoat]

Theory 1/
I reckon he wanted a table seat, possibly for filming,
probably the tables in coach H were taken, or possibly near a smelly toilet (both normal occurrences), so Corbyn & party carried on through train. Once they'd found no suitable seats available, they would have then found that previously vacant seats were also taken at which point they chose to sign on the floor.
Alternatively it may have been a stunt, but that would imply a degree of stupidity, previously not exhibited.
Theory 2/
Jeremy Corbyn did it(obviously), in the Dining Car with the Lead piping.

Tubular Bells playing in the background the whole time
gave me chills

It's spooky how young Mike Oldfield looks in that photo, hope it's just an old one.

[JonnyT1234]

When Tories use the phrase, 'ordinary people' they mean everyone other than them and their 'peers'. When a Labour MP uses the phrase, 'ordinary people' you'd sincerely hope they meant people just like them but that's far from being guaranteed these days.

In this instance, and I say this as an ardent anti-Semitic, misogynist, Trotskyite, Nazi stormtrooping, sandal and the bloodest of blood red sock wearing moderate social democrat commie scum bag (C) the PLP, 2016, I suspect Smith means people like him and me and everyone else here rather than the great unwashed 'other'.

[JonnyT1234]

I am still in shock George Osborne isn't a qualified brick layer.

It requires a certain degree of skill to become a good brickie. So...

Edit: imagine the scenario

Osborne: yes, gaffer, I'll have this wall finished by lunchtime.
Gaffer: good.

Lunchtime

Gaffer: why isn't this wall finished? You said you'd have it done by now.
Osborne: ah, but that was only if I hadn't been left to deal with the mess left by another's labour. I am still in the steady process of cleaning up that mess. It will be done by lunchtime.
Gaffer: but it is already lunchtime.
Osborne: only today. But not yet tomorrow.

Repeat ad nauseum

[danesclose]

I am still in shock George Osborne isn't a qualified brick layer.

It requires a certain degree of skill to become a good brickie. So...

Apparently Churchill was quite a dab hand with a trowel

[danesclose]

Correction. Running a completely shit, overcharging privatised rail service.

Nobody else here will agree with this, but....

1. It isn't privatised. Rail was re-nationalised by Prescott in 2002. Network Rail is now part of the UK state in all but formal name (it is for accounting purposes now within).

2. The franchise system set up by Prescott works well. So, Virgin East Coast returns much more to the Treasury under its current franchise deal than did East Coast TOC when the line temporarily was run by the state. The much publicised problems with Southern Rail is the system working, not failing. if you don't operate the line effectively, you'll lose your franchise.

A public owned network with private franchises operating under licence is a nationalised system.

3. Rail prices are too low. State subsidies should be reduced to zero and the network should operate on a commercial basis. Rail travel is environmentally damaging and it is a market distortion to subsidise it (see especially house prices). There is no excuse for subsidising commuters into London who are as a class the richest people in the country. Yes rail travel is less environmentally damaging than some other forms of travel, but only in the same way that burning gas is less bad than burning coal.

Stop the subsidy, distribute the saved expense to the poor. Giving poor people money is much more effective and just than subsidising rail.

4. Corbyn has been caught telling a fib on cctv cameras. Unless there are some more facts we don't yet know, denying it looks a bit daft.

1. Network Rail was re-nationalised because Railtrack, the private company set up by Major's government, was an unmitigated disaster
2. East Coast Rail had the lowest subsidies of any of the rail franchises when state run. Probably the reason Virgin Trains returns much more to the Treasury under its current franchise deal than did East Coast is that the prices are higher and therefore the tax paid to the Treasury is higher. If the system is working so much better, why are the subsidies paid to the rail operating companies far higher in real terms than those paid to British Rail? Don't tell me its due to massive improvements to services.
3. Rail prices are not too low. Can you imagine the chaos in the major cities if people came to work in cars? How can continental train companies operate much cheaper fares than the UK for comparable services? Maybe its partly because the state owned rail companies in Germany, Italy etc. are using the profits they make from owning British rail franchises to subsidise operations in their own countries. As an aside, why is it OK for the German government to run British rail franchises, but not the UK government?
4. As far as I'm aware the CCTV pictures have not yet been released (surprising, given the speed that Virgin released the stills) so at this stage its impossible to state that Corbyn has been caught telling a fib on camera.

[RogerOThornhill]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

[Hobiejoe]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

DrRogerOThornhill, PhD.

[tinybgoat]

The Bulldog was a Statesman, he knew how to hold a trowel,
The Bully boys a linesman, and can only fold a towel.
One stood firm against the Nazis, in our darkest hour
The other allegedly goes on all fours, with something that looks like flour.
(sorry)

[frightful_oik]

Congratulations Dr O'Thornhill!

[danesclose]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

Congrats!
BTW What's this on Twitter about Leyton Orient being a Maoist outpost?

[SpinningHugo]

1. Network Rail was re-nationalised because Railtrack, the private company set up by Major's government, was an unmitigated disaster

Absolutely. I voted for the government that replaced Major's.

2. East Coast Rail had the lowest subsidies of any of the rail franchises when state run. Probably the reason Virgin Trains returns much more to the Treasury under its current franchise deal than did East Coast is that the prices are higher and therefore the tax paid to the Treasury is higher.

Nope, fares are regulated. the inconvenient fact is that the private franchise is giving a better return.

If the system is working so much better, why are the subsidies paid to the rail operating companies far higher in real terms than those paid to British Rail? Don't tell me its due to massive improvements to services.

that of course is controversial, but under BR we had decades of underinvestment, which led to the system becoming unsafe. For the problems with the old system, see this list of deaths and injuries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... ed_Kingdom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The network now carries far, far more people. Rail travel has been one of the great success stories of the last 25 years. General "everything is shit and getting worse" pessimism hides this from us.

3. Rail prices are not too low. Can you imagine the chaos in the major cities if people came to work in cars?

If we know one thing in economics it is this: price subsidies are counterproductive. Whether it is bread, rail travel, or housing. the trains wouldn't empty: they'd just charge the market cost of the service.

How can continental train companies operate much cheaper fares than the UK for comparable services?

For two reasons.

1. Their subsidies are uniformly higher. This is unfair on the poor.

2. they are generally in much larger countries without the problems of building infrastructure that we face in the UK. Much easier to build 100m of railtrack in France than in the UK.

Maybe its partly because the state owned rail companies in Germany, Italy etc. are using the profits they make from owning British rail franchises to subsidise operations in their own countries. As an aside, why is it OK for the German government to run British rail franchises, but not the UK government?

no evidence for the former.
As to the latter, fine for me to have the UK state itself compete for the franchises (which was Labour policy in 2015 GE), just so long as it does so on a commercial basis. More the merrier: that is how competition works.

4. As far as I'm aware the CCTV pictures have not yet been released (surprising, given the speed that Virgin released the stills) so at this stage its impossible to state that Corbyn has been caught telling a fib on camera.

I am afraid i think those denying the clear evidence are making themselves look a bit silly.

[HindleA]

Excellent.Roger.Well done.

[RogerOThornhill]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

Congrats!
BTW What's this on Twitter about Leyton Orient being a Maoist outpost?

Thanks!

Where did you see that?

[SpinningHugo]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

many congratulations.

Details of viva please.

Did they tell you at start or end?

how long was grilling?

Will you put Dr into your username?

[RogerOThornhill]

many congratulations.

Details of viva please.

Did they tell you at start or end?

how long was grilling?

Will you put Dr into your username?

Thanks
2 examiners - 1 internal, 1 external + chair to keep order.
End although it was pretty clear from opening remarks that they liked it.
1hr 25 mins
Nah.

[TobyLatimer]

Congratulations Dr O'Thornhill!

Yes well done Roger. Can we now refer to you as Dot ?

[JonnyT1234]

Congrats. Welcome to PhDom. What was your general subject if you don't mind my asking?

[danesclose]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

Congrats!
BTW What's this on Twitter about Leyton Orient being a Maoist outpost?

Thanks!

Where did you see that?

Barney Farmer (guy who does Male Online cartoon) retweeted this from a lady involved with Orient who was on the train with Corbyn & backs up what he said.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He (BF) made a gag about Orient being a Maoist club

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fedup59]

Many many congratulations Roger.

[RogerOThornhill]

Congrats. Welcome to PhDom. What was your general subject if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks!

Let's just keep it at history.

[ScarletGas]

Llongyfarchiadau Dr OThornhill

[tinyclanger2]

On nomenclature. I like to think of myself as "scum"

[Temulkar]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

Thats awesome!!! Are you going to publish it through history press or someone similar? I could happily while away some time reading about the Eturscans

[HindleA]

Well,rail was our only way we could feasibly get anywhere of any distance,the fare was discounted but I would argue the total cost of a journey (necessary taxis etc) was broadly comparable-travel ability via mobility scheme was not an option;in theory terms it should be possible to travel by coach,at best this was severly limiting and in practical not feasible,without being too graphic,natural functions do not fit into convenient stops on a journey.So I don't think it is all as simple as you have put because increasing the cost positively excludes significant amounts of people,particularly when they have little or no other options.

[Temulkar]

Anyway I did this during last year's leadership contest, not much has changed...

Radicals and Reactionaries: The Making of Modern Britain.

http://jemahlevans.wixsite.com/jemahlev ... rn-Britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

@RogerOThornhill

Congratulations!

[pk1]

Congratulations Roger

[AngryAsWell]

Traingate eh?

Good to see we're focusing on the really important stuff...

Meanwhile I passed my viva this afternoon. Some minor corrections to be completed inside 2 months but that's it. PhD done.

Wow! Well done Roger!

[JonnyT1234]

On nomenclature. I like to think of myself as "scum"

Dancing scum, methinks.

[yahyah]

I am still in shock George Osborne isn't a qualified brick layer.

It requires a certain degree of skill to become a good brickie. So...

Apparently Churchill was quite a dab hand with a trowel

So was Carl Jung.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollingen_Tower" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

Not sure about the safety of the on line voting system,I've voted six times already.

[PorFavor]

It requires a certain degree of skill to become a good brickie. So...

Apparently Churchill was quite a dab hand with a trowel

So was Carl Jung.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollingen_Tower" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So was Barbara Cartland.