Thursday 25th August 2016

Post by **refitman** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 8:02 am

A couple of people asked me last night for links for my assertion that the Professors of Public Law at Oxford and Cambridge both (rightly) state that leaving the EU via Art 50 requires no Act of Parliament

Here is Professor Mark Elliot (Cambridge)

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2016/0 ... legislate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is Professor Paul Craig (Oxford)

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=2807975" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The relevant part is pp 30-33

And here is me (I am clearer and more straightforward than either of them)

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... gislation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... on-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 9:00 am

Good morfternoon.

I've been re-reading some of the Guardian's Virgin\Corbyn articles.

This struck me -

Linda, heading up to Newcastle with her two sons, seemed to strike the tone that most people I spoke to expressed. Her customer experience of the railway franchise system was frustrating for her. She said it was difficult to buy tickets to make long journeys across the country and frustrating that different rail companies have different rules about tickets. “But I wouldn’t go back to British Rail,” she said. (Guardian, my emphasis)

One of the few occasions when I regret the absence of a reference to the interviewee's age.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... got-a-seat

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 9:07 am

SpinningHugo wrote:A couple of people asked me last night for links for my assertion that the Professors of Public Law at Oxford and Cambridge both (rightly) state that leaving the EU via Art 50 requires no Act of Parliament
...

Thankyou.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 9:49 am

Does it matter what the legality of everything is? What the Tories are allegedly cooking up is the diplomatic equivalent of blowing our own brains out as a trade negotiation tactic.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 9:52 am

"Hello trading partners, when we don't like the deal we've all been putting into place for the past 30 years, we just throw a strop and leave you to clean up the mess. Hello potential new partner... What do you mean you're not interested anymore?"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 10:11 am

I received my leadership voting papers through the post just now (I've already voted online so it's immaterial to me but just so's you all know things are moving).

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 10:22 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:Does it matter what the legality of everything is? What the Tories are allegedly cooking up is the diplomatic equivalent of blowing our own brains out as a trade negotiation tactic.

I'm still confused (i'm quithe used to it though), they don't need parliament's permission to trigger article 50, but their cunning plan then apparently involves quickly passing an act to replace the European communities act.
Some MPs may feel bound by Brexit result, but can't see that they'd then feel same way about the blowing brains out bit.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 10:27 am

We spoke to the woman whose landmark legal case could block Britain from triggering Article 50
'We must remember that the UK doesn't have a written constitution -- it is made up of precedent.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05736.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 10:55 am

AngryAsWell wrote:We spoke to the woman whose landmark legal case could block Britain from triggering Article 50
'We must remember that the UK doesn't have a written constitution -- it is made up of precedent.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05736.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If we trigger Article 50 under royal prerogative, what is stopping the EU turning around and saying "well, you've actually triggered Article 50 illegally, you've now forfeited your two-year negotiation period, so leave?" It really isn't beyond the EU to do that.

That seems a bit far fetched, I'd have thought EU would just refuse to accept it had been triggered in that case. It would be ironic to then have EU insisting we respect parliamentary sovereignty.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 11:09 am

I miss ohso and Robert S. Come back, please.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 11:10 am

The prime minister was returning for her first full day back at work on Wednesday after a walking holiday in the Swiss Alps. Several cabinet ministers including the prime minister are in a predicament because Heathrow expansion could adversely affect their constituencies.

May’s Maidenhead constituency is under the night flight route and she was not a member of the influential committee as home secretary under David Cameron. In July, it was reported that a deleted web archive from the late 2000s revealed May had been a strong critic of airport expansion in west London, saying her constituents faced the “prospect of a reduction in their quality of life with more planes flying overhead”.

Cameron also took personal charge of the committee, and was accused of “locking out” more anti-Heathrow cabinet members such as the then international development secretary, Justine Greening.

Greening, now education secretary after May promoted her, is one of the most vocal critics of Heathrow expansion. She is the MP for Putney, Roehampton and Southfields.

“Trying to expand Heathrow is like trying to build an eight-bedroom mansion on the site of a terraced house,” she told the Telegraph. “It is a hub airport that is just simply in the wrong place.”

By October. Sounds a bit optimistic?

Theresa May to chair Heathrow third runway committee

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... -committee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 11:18 am

All the controversial items that dodgy Dave erm dodged are now coming home. It's ok though, TM's a leftie, we all heard her speech outside number ten.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 11:19 am

frightful_oik wrote:All the controversial items that dodgy Dave erm dodged are now coming home. It's ok though, TM's a leftie, we all heard her speech outside number ten.

Hinkley point, HS2, Heathrow. Nice!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:17 pm

'Unsafe' Stafford hospital A&E closed to children - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-st ... e-37185261" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any chance of blaming Labour?

Following the linked article you get the classic "Examples included patients being so thirsty that they had to drink water from vases" myth.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:24 pm

My vote goes to sinking Boris in the Thames and having planes land on him. It's what he wants.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:27 pm

Any commentary in our glorious MSM about the impact of cutbacks on the RNLI and Lifeguards? It was reported in the Graun that a witness said their were no lifeguards/flagged zone at Camber Sands yesterday. If true, maybe, just maybe, there's a bit of correlation there worth investigating, huh?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:29 pm

They're too busy travelling on trains, don't be silly.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:32 pm

Bristol to axe 1,000 jobs as it faces 'huge financial burden'.

Marvin Rees getting to chow down on his Mayoral 'shit sandwich' already.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:32 pm

http://www.chris-hackley.com/2016/08/br ... r.html?m=1

But who knows- perhaps in a hundred years there will be a new statue in Trafalgar Square, of Boris Johnson naked on a sixty foot plinth, triumphantly eating a snot sandwich.

Why this sudden trend for naked statues?
I'd settle for him being dressed & untriumphant.

edited to add: Before anyone gets the wrong idea, no, I haven't been googling "naked politicians"

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:36 pm

edited - Costa wifi caused second post.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:37 pm

When leaving the premises, please remind our neighbours that drunk people have been loudly leaving this establishment long before they decided to buy houses next door to it.

Half-cut Public(an) Relations

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:41 pm

Brick shortage holding up housebuilding process ‘from beginning to end’ - report - Eastern Daily Press

Brickies considered having a riot over it, but they quickly realised the major flaw in that proposal.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 12:43 pm

frightful_oik wrote:edited - Costa wifi caused second post.

Aha, not just me who has that problem with 'free WiFi' services, then.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 1:39 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Any commentary in our glorious MSM about the impact of cutbacks on the RNLI and Lifeguards? It was reported in the Graun that a witness said their were no lifeguards/flagged zone at Camber Sands yesterday. If true, maybe, just maybe, there's a bit of correlation there worth investigating, huh?

I have just been reading about the incident at Camber Sands and remembered reading your post earlier so thought I'd pop in and link the G article. Apparently the RNLI have never stationed life guards at that particular beach:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... rd-station" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“Regular assessments are carried out at Camber beach, along with the RNLI, to inform what measures need to be taken to guide visitor safety and ensure the beach is safe. To date this has not identified the need for lifeguards to be deployed at the beach and there have never been lifeguards employed at the beach.

There have been a striking number of fatal incidents off the UK shores this year, it does make you wonder why, but then again it could just be a series of sad accidents. The information boards at beaches are essential for warning people of dangers such as rip tides and hidden rocks, the problem is whether people read them. And British weather, of course. We get so few perfect calm, still days to go for a swim, people are clearly tempted to go to the beach, even when conditions are poor. It's very sad. I'm dubious about a lot of charities these days, they seem to be getting more and more corporate, but I have a great deal of admiration for the RNLI. It's one of the few charities I donate to. They do a great job, but sadly can't be everywhere.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 1:39 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Any commentary in our glorious MSM about the impact of cutbacks on the RNLI and Lifeguards? It was reported in the Graun that a witness said their were no lifeguards/flagged zone at Camber Sands yesterday. If true, maybe, just maybe, there's a bit of correlation there worth investigating, huh?

Don't be silly - a woman was seen for the first time in a month yesterday. And she was wearing a dress.
Anyway, they were probably immigrants (according to speculation on the front page of The Sun) so it doesn't really matter that they drowned.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 1:40 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Brick shortage holding up housebuilding process ‘from beginning to end’ - report - Eastern Daily Press

Brickies considered having a riot over it, but they quickly realised the major flaw in that proposal.

The brick making foundry, if that's what the technical term is, that was here until a few years ago, is now an enormous Tesco. Like just about everything else.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:16 pm

Just re-read my earlier post.
Apologies if the sarcasm intended didn't come out in the message

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:24 pm

A few of the reported Labour exclusions from voting in the current contest are genuinely ridiculous, tbh. Some have not even been given a reason

People who voted for Watson as deputy, this is what you have got in return (McNicol is totally his puppet)

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:41 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:A few of the reported Labour exclusions from voting in the current contest are genuinely ridiculous, tbh. Some have not even been given a reason

People who voted for Watson as deputy, this is what you have got in return (McNicol is totally his puppet)

Guilty as charged.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:53 pm

Willow904 wrote:I have just been reading about the incident at Camber Sands and remembered reading your post earlier so thought I'd pop in and link the G article. Apparently the RNLI have never stationed life guards at that particular beach:

Appreciate the link.

This is a follow up article to the one I read last night. Sadly, it is not very informative for one that is quite long. We learn (a) what you have stated above, (b) the same point made repeatedly throughout the article in a highly redundant way, but not (c) why. Was it a costs issue, a resources issue, a risk assessment issue?

Lots of commentary from people saying the council should be funding lifeguards on the beach. None asking if they can afford it, what it means for anything else that's being cut/funded, just Joe Bloggs saying how expensive the car parking is, why don't they divert the funds from rich place x to y, etc.

Just me or is this another example of how our newspapers are completely failing us in a fundamentally basic way?

The what is often from a completely biased perspective
The who is frequently wrong
The when is about the only thing that is right
The where is normally right but too often not
The why and/or the how is more often than not completely absent or is twisted to fit a pre-ordained narrative.

What the hell happened to our journalists?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:54 pm

danesclose wrote:Just re-read my earlier post.
Apologies if the sarcasm intended didn't come out in the message

If your's didn't come across then, erm... I'm doomed.

(Seemed very obvious to me)

Edit: apostronot

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:57 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:A few of the reported Labour exclusions from voting in the current contest are genuinely ridiculous, tbh. Some have not even been given a reason

People who voted for Watson as deputy, this is what you have got in return (McNicol is totally his puppet)
Guilty as charged.

You were not alone, tbf.

Worth recalling that he resigned ministerial/shadow posts under Blair, Brown *and* Miliband. Remember it the next time he sounds off about "loyalty"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:57 pm

The Saving Labour email asking whether I'd voted. What a classy way to sign off

"The Saving Labour team

P.S. Check out our petition calling on Corbyn to condemn the booing of Sadiq Khan by his supporters."

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:02 pm

of these complaints are misplaced. The real problem with the burkini ban is, it’s too limited. Forbidding a specific type of swimsuit won’t achieve anything: we must ban ALL CLOTHES! And the sooner the better.

This may sound like a ridiculous notion. But, more ridiculous than banning a swimming costume in order to fight terrorism? I think not! Plus, there are many scientifically valid reasons for us to do away with clothes.

Dean Burnett skewers the absurdity of the Burkini ban rather well, I think.

(Sorry in advance but there is more nakedness involved).

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:10 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:They're too busy travelling on trains, don't be silly.

I've met the 'journalist' who did that live blog. At the time he was working in web design. Guess whose website he helped ~~completely fuck up~~ turn into the amazing wonder of user friendliness it is today.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:22 pm

Does anyone know any more about this -

Labour party suspends pro-Corbyn union chief

Ronnie Draper of the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union said action was taken over something he wrote on social media (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nie-draper

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:23 pm

Did he boo at Sadiq Kahn?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:25 pm

Only been in the party for a few decades. Entryist.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:26 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Did he boo at Sadiq Kahn?

I don't know, lovely. I'm waiting for Jess Phillips to tell us all.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:27 pm

Willow904 wrote: There have been a striking number of fatal incidents off the UK shores this year, it does make you wonder why, but then again it could just be a series of sad accidents. The information boards at beaches are essential for warning people of dangers such as rip tides and hidden rocks, the problem is whether people read them. And British weather, of course. We get so few perfect calm, still days to go for a swim, people are clearly tempted to go to the beach, even when conditions are poor. It's very sad. I'm dubious about a lot of charities these days, they seem to be getting more and more corporate, but I have a great deal of admiration for the RNLI. It's one of the few charities I donate to. They do a great job, but sadly can't be everywhere.

I read somewhere that the total so far this year isn't out of the usual run. One person drowning doesn't necessarily make the national news, 5 in one afternoon obviously does. Very sad for their families.

There were many comments about that beach being shallow a long way out, maybe that's a problem if people have to go so far out to find water deep enough for proper swimming, and maybe not many do, hence the perceived lack of need for lifeguards.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:28 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Only been in the party for a few decades. Entryist.

Can you flounce on "Twitter"? If so, perhaps that was it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:32 pm

I'm actually feeling quite nervous. I didn't vote for him, but I've said a few nice things about Jeremy Corbyn.

Edited to add an "s"

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:35 pm

Your last comment on our Jess... Banned for life with immediate effect.

Edit: you were warned so you can't complain. Well, at least you will be warned in up to 6 months time with it applied retrospectively. Because that's completely fair and honest, don't you know.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 3:36 pm

Ah well PF,it was nice knowing you in the party - at least you have already voted........

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 4:41 pm

Kate McCann Verified account
‏@KateEMcCann

More bad news for Labour. G4S declines awkward last ditch plea to provide conference security, despite boycott:

What was I saying yesterday about G4S being over-dominant in the security business?

If Labour were smart (and right now they're not) they ought to be making this point loudly.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 4:59 pm

Me and my mates could do security. Secret question:who've you voted for? Unity at last.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 5:15 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Kate McCann Verified account
‏@KateEMcCann

More bad news for Labour. G4S declines awkward last ditch plea to provide conference security, despite boycott:

What was I saying yesterday about G4S being over-dominant in the security business?

If Labour were smart (and right now they're not) they ought to be making this point loudly.

Or, you know, that it is appalling that any commercial organisation is permitted to get away with not allowing any union representation for its workforce.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 5:59 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Kate McCann Verified account
‏@KateEMcCann

More bad news for Labour. G4S declines awkward last ditch plea to provide conference security, despite boycott:

What was I saying yesterday about G4S being over-dominant in the security business?

If Labour were smart (and right now they're not) they ought to be making this point loudly.
Or, you know, that it is appalling that any commercial organisation is permitted to get away with not allowing any union representation for its workforce.

Well, they could have used Showsec, but too late now.

What about Mitie or Securitas?

There must be other firms? Are other unions in dispute with them? Are they too small?

I'd imagine that you need quite a long lead in time to book security for a big event like this. I doubt a month is long enough now.

Breweries and piss ups.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 6:02 pm

1. Shadow Chancellor writes to party chair accusing him of vote-rigging

2. Lord Sainsbury donates to Lib Dems

3. Leader's non-endorsement from Sanders.

Another day on planet Labout.