Friday 26th August 2016

[refitman]

Morning all.

[JonnyT1234]

Morning.

Steve Cowan, leader of Hammersmith and Fulham council said: “This is about closing hospitals and getting capital receipts. It’s a cynical rehash of earlier plans. It’s about the breaking up and selling off of the NHS. It will lead to a loss of vital services and will put lives at risk.” He added: “Our job is to protect the NHS and this plan is about dismantling it.”

NHS plans closures and radical cuts to combat growing deficit in health budget

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the London hospitals threatened with closure occupy prime locations for redevelopment as high priced residential properties...

[SpinningHugo]

This one won't be popular

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57b1c ... c53b3fd1be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JonnyT1234]

This one won't be popular

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57b1c ... c53b3fd1be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As with Kettle yesterday, it would help if writers didn't begin their articles with stupidly bogus straw men arguments:

This matters because a nationalised NHS would require a vast unpicking of the fabric of the country’s health system. Most general practices are privately provided, not to mention hospital CT scanners, buildings, beds, bandages, and bog-roll... and all medicines. An almost impossibly huge task.

It just sets your article up for dismissal as tripe from the off [edit: even if, on the whole, it is not].

Otherwise, some legitimate points made but nothing nobody will not have heard a million times before from people of your own ilk. It's the same, 'we mustn't spook the free market horses' argument that's been trotted out countless times before.

[RogerOThornhill]

Morning all. This comes under the general heading of "well I never..."

Parents face charges for 'free' childcare, nurseries warn


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37191758

Parents in England who claim extra free childcare from September will be asked to pay charges to help tackle a funding shortfall, nurseries have warned.

A government scheme offering 30 hours of childcare a week to working parents of three and four-year-olds is to be piloted in York next month.

But the Pre-school Learning Alliance said providers may refuse to offer the care because it could cost them money.

Soundbite policy ill-thought through - who'd have thunk it?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... kinis-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

britain-will-not-introduce-a-ban-on-women-wearing-burkinis-says

A truly ridiculous announcement. Can we imagine a Queen's Speech full of what the government will not do?

[55DegreesNorth]

Morning folks.
From Tamasin Caves piece about cirporate lobbying in the Tories.

Just for contrast, Jeremy Corbyn has few mates in the commercial lobbying business (union and NGO lobbyists, yes. Corporate lobbyists-for-hire, no). None of them are Corbynites (by contrast, there are tonnes of Blairites). This rather stymies lobbyists. They don’t have the inside track to him. They have lost their privileged access. What are they going to sell to clients?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... liam-hague" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Edited to correct using-iPad-in-the-bath typo.
And again to correct author. Ipads, steamy specs and literacy do not sit well together.

[tinybgoat]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/ ... glish-word

“Moist” has emerged as an early contender for the least popular word in the English language, as Oxford Dictionaries launches a global search to find the least favourite English word.
Kicking off what it hopes will be the largest global survey into people’s language gripes, the dictionary publisher is inviting English speakers around the world to answer a range of language-related questions under the #OneWordMap initiative , starting with the quest to find the least popular English word.

[citizenJA]

Good-morning, everyone.

[JonnyT1234]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/ ... glish-word

“Moist” has emerged as an early contender for the least popular word in the English language, as Oxford Dictionaries launches a global search to find the least favourite English word.
Kicking off what it hopes will be the largest global survey into people’s language gripes, the dictionary publisher is inviting English speakers around the world to answer a range of language-related questions under the #OneWordMap initiative , starting with the quest to find the least popular English word.

Alternate when used to mean alternative.

[citizenJA]

I've been away from flythenest a couple days, haven't seen the threads or posts at all, no looking in without
logging in. I didn't plan it and it was only done so I could concentrate on something else that'd come along.

I'm uncertain I'll have a chance to read all that I've missed. Please have patience with me. I hope not to
post something I wouldn't have had I known what I don't.

[JonnyT1234]

Immunoglobulin is another. Not because of the word per se but because it looks like a long string of letters i or u whenever I write it (terrible cursive handwriting).

[JonnyT1234]

I've been away from flythenest a couple days, haven't seen the threads or posts at all, no looking in without
logging in. I didn't plan it and it was only done so I could concentrate on something else that'd come along.

I'm uncertain I'll have a chance to read all that I've missed. Please have patience with me. I hope not to
post something I wouldn't have had I known what I don't.

Always have patience for you CJA. Very hard not to.

[JonnyT1234]

PS. You may want to skip all references that have been made to nakedness and dancing over the course of the past few days.

Edit: cleaning up my grammar. Do doo do doo. Waah wah.

[JonnyT1234]

Onomatopoeia because it isn't onomatopoeic.

[PorFavor]

@JonnyT1234

You had no alternative if your office is still so hot. Have you left behind a moist patch?

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

[JonnyT1234]

@JonnyT1234

You had no alternative if your office is still so hot. Have you left behind a moist patch?

Woah there... a bit early in the day for that as a mental image. I might have to deploy a picture of Naked Trump just to distract everyone.

Edit: it's OK everyone, I found this instead:

[tinybgoat]

My mind's gone even blanker than normal & i couldn't remember any annoying words at first.

Aspirational.
Orange, because I thought up a cunning way of rhyming with it, then forgot again.

I think certain phrases are more likely to annoy, such as "...would advise that tinyb is kept in the loop"

Hmm. I suppose annoying isn't the same as hating, must think harder

[PorFavor]

Excerpt from an e-mail I've received from LabourList -

Bakers’ Union chief Ronnie Draper was suspended from Labour because of comments, still unknown, which he made on social media. McDonnell sees the episode as evidence of "double standards" because, while Draper misses out on a vote, the Blairite former minister Lord Sainsbury does not face any action after donating £2m to the Lib Dems (as well as our own party).

Well, that seems to clear up the Lord Sainsbury question (SpinningHugo, I think that you should amend your book of facts accordingly) although Renegade Ron's "misdeeds" are still an unknown.

[JonnyT1234]

Britain’s ‘last elected communist’ has been replaced

[JonnyT1234]

...although Renegade Ron's "misdeeds" are still an unknown.

He once called Tony Blair a Blairite. To his face.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Sainsbury's "get out" appears to be that he donated the money to the LibDems specifically to assist the "In" referendum campaign. Or something like that.

[frightful_oik]

Certain mis-spellings really grate with me.
of for have or 've
Mute for moot
ephe's continual use of the word its' which doesn't exist. Ever.

[AnatolyKasparov]

All of those don't match up to the veritable monstrosity that is replacing "have" with "of"

[PorFavor]

Publisher hunts for forgotten detective novelist Clifton Robbins (Guardian)

Never heard of him - but I love stuff like this. Could it be a nom de plume? Could he have been a she?

Anyone here have any information?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/ ... on-robbins

[PorFavor]

Infer for imply. And vice versa.

[JonnyT1234]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... kinis-says

britain-will-not-introduce-a-ban-on-women-wearing-burkinis-says

A truly ridiculous announcement. Can we imagine a Queen's Speech full of what the government will not do?

In many, many ways that would actually be far preferable to the Tories telling us what they will do.

[JonnyT1234]

Phthalate because why? Is oneth not enough? [Bad science joke... There isn't any other kind]

[PorFavor]

Sulfur . . .

[JonnyT1234]

Sulfur . . .

Banned from the Labour Party. For life.

[pk1]

Excerpt from an e-mail I've received from LabourList -

Bakers’ Union chief Ronnie Draper was suspended from Labour because of comments, still unknown, which he made on social media. McDonnell sees the episode as evidence of "double standards" because, while Draper misses out on a vote, the Blairite former minister Lord Sainsbury does not face any action after donating £2m to the Lib Dems (as well as our own party).

Well, that seems to clear up the Lord Sainsbury question (SpinningHugo, I think that you should amend your book of facts accordingly) although Renegade Ron's "misdeeds" are still an unknown.

Sarah Pine must not check twitter very often then because Draper's words have been re-tweeted many times since he announced he'd been suspended.

He might try claiming not to have known the rules around abusive behaviour but this email sent on July 21st makes it very clear.

Reporting abuse and infiltration

If you become aware of abusive behaviour from any member towards any other member, or if you yourself are subject to abusive behaviour, please give party HQ the details (such as names, specifics of incident, and any other details that may help) so that they can investigate. You can do this by emailing legal_queries@labour.org.uk.

As you will know, 183,000 people applied to vote as Registered Supporters. Most will have done so in good faith. Successful applicants must agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party. Should the Party consider it necessary, any applicant may be referred to a panel of the NEC who will make the final decision on whether their application will be accepted. Applications will be referred to the NEC panel in the following circumstances:

Any applicants rejected in the 2015 leadership election.
If they were a candidate, agent or nominated a candidate in opposition to a Labour Party candidate in 2015 or 2016.
If there is evidence that they have publicly stated that they voted for a candidate in opposition to a Labour Party candidate in 2015 or 2016.
If there is evidence that they belong to, support or subscribe to an organisation whose aims and values are contrary to those of the Labour Party. This includes other political parties and organisations with contrary political aims and the evidence may include attendance at meetings or posting (more than once) on blogs or social media in support.
If the applicant has been party to membership abuse, such as not paying their own membership fees.
If they publicly state or send any abusive comments regarding any candidate, any Labour representative or any other member. This goes beyond general disparaging remarks, and includes the use of aggressive or foul language. Terms of abuse that will not be tolerated include (but are not limited to): traitor, scum or scab.
If they have made any public statements including, but not limited to, racism, abusive or foul language, abuse against women, homophobia or anti-Semitism, or of an otherwise abusive and discriminatory nature.

If you have any concerns about any applicants, please email validation@labour.org.uk with details of your concerns.

(my emphasis)

[citizenJA]

This one won't be popular

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57b1c ... c53b3fd1be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Britain’s NHS has never been 100% public.
There is therefore no road map, and no proof it can be done effectively.

Dust off the NHS Handbook, the 'road map', used prior the introduction of internal markets within the service made during Thatcher's Tory government.
It'll work okay.

[PorFavor]

@pk1

Ah - thanks. I wondered if someone here (rather than the press, or even the Labour Party) would shed some light on the situation.

Still - June was a while ago now. What took them so long, I wonder?

[JonnyT1234]

Terms of abuse that will not be tolerated include (but are not limited to): traitor, scum or scab.

Good job entryist, anti-Semite, mysogynist and 'Trot' aren't on that list. There'd be hardly any right wing Labour MPs left in the party otherwise.

[frightful_oik]

All of those don't match up to the veritable monstrosity that is replacing "have" with "of"

Apart from perhaps

of for have or 've

[JonnyT1234]

He might try claiming not to have known the rules around abusive behaviour but this email sent on July 21st makes it very clear.

Those tweets are all from June.

[danesclose]

Terms of abuse that will not be tolerated include (but are not limited to): traitor, scum or scab.

Good job entryist, anti-Semite, mysogynist and 'Trot' aren't on that list. There'd be hardly any right wing Labour MPs left in the party otherwise.

Or "Nazi Stormtrooper"

[pk1]

Terms of abuse that will not be tolerated include (but are not limited to): traitor, scum or scab.

Good job entryist, anti-Semite, mysogynist and 'Trot' aren't on that list. There'd be hardly any right wing Labour MPs left in the party otherwise.

I'd be surprised if any Labour MP or member would want entryists, anti-semites, mysogynists or trots in the party tbh.

The abuse Johanna Baxter is receiving lately is utterly repugnant - alas, they sling their vile abuse from behind a false name.

[PorFavor]

He might try claiming not to have known the rules around abusive behaviour but this email sent on July 21st makes it very clear.

Those tweets are all from June.

I've just said that . . . .

[pk1]

Terms of abuse that will not be tolerated include (but are not limited to): traitor, scum or scab.

Good job entryist, anti-Semite, mysogynist and 'Trot' aren't on that list. There'd be hardly any right wing Labour MPs left in the party otherwise.

Or "Nazi Stormtrooper"

Foster has been reported to the NEC.

[frightful_oik]

Is Quisling(s) allowed? I used it a few weeks ago I have to confess. Or rather I don't have to as I'm not a member, merely an observer.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Terms of abuse that will not be tolerated include (but are not limited to): traitor, scum or scab.

Good job entryist, anti-Semite, mysogynist and 'Trot' aren't on that list. There'd be hardly any right wing Labour MPs left in the party otherwise.

Or "Nazi Stormtrooper"

John McTernan recently described the elected leader of his party as a "traitor" - when is he getting suspended?

Its not that hard to see why some think double standards are at times being applied here......

[pk1]

@pk1

Ah - thanks. I wondered if someone here (rather than the press, or even the Labour Party) would shed some light on the situation.

Still - June was a while ago now. What took them so long, I wonder?

IIRC, during the 2015 leadership contest, the NEC checked social media accounts going back further than just the current year.

[pk1]

John McTernan recently described the elected leader of his party as a "traitor" - when is he getting suspended?

Its not that hard to see why some think double standards are at times being applied here......

It's tin hat territory to claim double standards are being applied.

An example: Jonny Will Chambers has been suspended for tweeting about the Tory leadership election. His 'crime' apparently was to comment that, between the two candidates, he'd rather have Theresa May than Andrea Leadsome but that he desperately wanted a Labour leader to beat her (not physically !).
This suspension was greeted with shock by the MPs he'd canvassed alongside - John Prescott, Diana Johnson & Wes Streeting, all of whom have said they will support his appeal.

[JonnyT1234]

I'd be surprised if any Labour MP or member would want entryists, anti-semites, mysogynists or trots in the party tbh.

Of course they wouldn't but why should that exempt them from abusing people who are none of those things?

Double standards. It's perfectly fine for the right to chuck as many smears around as they want but woe betide you if you're not in with that crowd.

Abuse should not be tolerated from either side. It'd help if BOTH sides recognised that instead of one being all preachy about it while dishing it out.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Don't accuse me of "tin hatting" please

Chambers actually had a Theresa May twibbon - even the most sectarian party hack couldn't really ignore that

[howsillyofme1]

Good afternoon

Calling someone as being a traitor is perhaps a bit over the top but can anyone reasonably explain why that is materially worse than entryist, antisemite, lunatic, moron etc?

The problem is that this can easily be seen as a witchhunt and is doing the party no favours.....

The trouble is the same people promoting this now will be crying the loudest when it comes back on them at a later date.......

The whole thing has gone mad, well done PLP and NEC

[howsillyofme1]

I'd be surprised if any Labour MP or member would want entryists, anti-semites, mysogynists or trots in the party tbh.

Of course they wouldn't but why should that exempt them from abusing people who are none of those things?

Double standards. It's perfectly fine for the right to chuck as many smears around as they want but woe betide you if you're not in with that crowd.

Abuse should not be tolerated from either side. It'd help if BOTH sides recognised that instead of one being all preachy about it while dishing it out.

But there is one side that is loving being very 'preachy' about all this and are making me thoroughly nauseous at the same time

Both sides in this pathetic debate want to grow up - but one side is making itself look more desperate and ridiculous than the other from where i stand

On another subject, I saw that Owen Smith came very close to calling Jeremy Corbyn a liar yesterday over his EU vote......any views on this?

I think it was a very unwise attack to make, Chris Bryant said it as well immediately after, and does hiom no favours. Saying Corbyn did not campaign hard enough is fair enough, although entirely subjective, but to suggest he has lied (in not so many words) will do nothing to help him convince voters away from Corbyn

I am just starting to get the feeling that Smith understands he cannot win and is now going personal to help prepare the ground for the aftermath....I may be wrong but cannot really see why he is doing it

[JonnyT1234]

Stopping me from getting derailed further, fortunately the Mirror is to the rescue again with some extremely important #News:

Make William our next King say more than half of Brits - but how many want Charles?

He isn't wearing a dress.