Tuesday 20th September 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:28 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Lib Dem president

Sal Brinton has just finished delivering her main speech to the conference as party president. In it, she said that Jeremy Corbyn’s re-election as Labour leader could help the Lib Dems gain voters and members.

Should Jeremy Corbyn be re-elected, I know that a number of Labour supporters and members will be feeling very lost.

Befriend them. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Time to go into hiding, I feel.

Particularly if it is Lord Rennard that wants to be pals.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:32 pm

You'll have to excuse me. I don't read the majority of your posts so did not see the context.

[Reply to Hugo, obviously]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:34 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:7 out of 10 Labour constituencies voted Leave

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would have been a different story if Labour still held Scotland. but it doesn't.

A big divide between urban metropolitan seats in London, and the north. Which reflects the split I was talking about above within the Labour coalition.

Most of them were relatively close (ie not that far out of line with the national result)

The idea that "Labour's heartlands" *all* voted to leave en masse was an instant HOT TAKE from the MSM that, as so often, grossly simplifies a more complex reality.

(my own area voted 62% for Brexit, just to put that on the record)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:38 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:You'll have to excuse me. I don't read the majority of your posts so did not see the context.

[Reply to Hugo, obviously]

A clarification too late. I'm mortally wounded and umbrage has been taken. (I jest, just in case you're in any doubt!)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:43 pm

Looks as if a lot of members may be taking the 'a plague on both your houses' approach if Brind is right - see his last paragraph.
Why else would voting turnout of members be so much less than last year, if 68% quoted is close to the final % ?

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... e-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:48 pm

I saw some of this earlier...

UKIP’s MP Is Arguing With Scientists About What Causes Tides And People Are Taking The Piss

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/peo ... of-experts

Douglas Carswell, UKIP’s only MP, has been telling scientists on Twitter what causes tides.

He was arguing with Paul Nightingale, a professor of strategy at Sussex University’s Science Policy Research Unit, who was drawing an analogy to say why trade with EU countries is more important for Britain than larger, but more distant, countries like China.

Carswell thinks it’s the sun, and he’s really pretty convinced about it.

It’s fair to say that most scientists are unconvinced by his unorthodox position.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:48 pm

Well, maybe not a lot, but a fair few.

[Labour members, not tides]

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:7 out of 10 Labour constituencies voted Leave

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would have been a different story if Labour still held Scotland. but it doesn't.

A big divide between urban metropolitan seats in London, and the north. Which reflects the split I was talking about above within the Labour coalition.
Most of them were relatively close (ie not that far out of line with the national result)

The idea that "Labour's heartlands" *all* voted to leave en masse was an instant HOT TAKE from the MSM that, as so often, grossly simplifies a more complex reality.

(my own area voted 62% for Brexit, just to put that on the record)

And mine, a Labour seat, was overwhelmingly Remain.

Illustrating Labour's dilemma. I live among the metropolitan middle classes. In the (far) North West, it is all a bit different culturally. A rather different divide from Corbyn v The Rest

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 1:56 pm

Blair talking with Harold Evans live, for those who want their 5 minute hate

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Newsmaker_with_Tony_Blair" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Has said some interesting things about social media.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 2:04 pm

: Overall Degree of Partisanship Classified at the Article Level_1.jpg (40.3 KiB) Viewed 6789 times

UK press coverage of the EU Referendum

"Of the 2378 articles analysed which were focused on the referendum 41% were pro leave as against 27% pro-remain.
Press coverage focused heavily on politicians and campaign spokespeople with relatively little few analysts/experts,
academics and foreign politicians cited, and with more attention to personalities and the contest than the issues.
The press reflected the generally negative tone of the campaign, but the Remain camp’s future focussed
messages were the most negative, particularly on the economy, compared to the Leave camp’s more
positive tone about a UK outside the EU."

http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac. ... referendum

Voting against negative reality isn't going to change reality.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 3:00 pm

Farron. Always surprises me that he i quite a good speaker, he doesn't look like he should be.

Not that it matters much. Boundary changes will destroy what remains of the LDs.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 3:27 pm

yahyah wrote:Looks as if a lot of members may be taking the 'a plague on both your houses' approach if Brind is right - see his last paragraph.
Why else would voting turnout of members be so much less than last year, if 68% quoted is close to the final % ?

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... e-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can think of 2 possible reasons,
i) Manipulation, (though realistically, I presume the figures exclude those disqualified from voting, due to having exhibited current or past behaviour, interpretable as resulting in a likelihood to tick the wrong box)
i) Murray Mints: Some of us just like to take our time

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 3:49 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:Looks as if a lot of members may be taking the 'a plague on both your houses' approach if Brind is right - see his last paragraph.
Why else would voting turnout of members be so much less than last year, if 68% quoted is close to the final % ?

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... e-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can think of 2 possible reasons,
i) Manipulation, (though realistically, I presume the figures exclude those disqualified from voting, due to having exhibited current or past behaviour, interpretable as resulting in a likelihood to tick the wrong box)
i) Murray Mints: Some of us just like to take our time

1. The result has been obvious from the start, so why bother?

2. Enthusiasm has diminished. Nobody could now be naive enough to think Corbyn's leadership will be a conventional success, even if they don't (unlike me) blame him for that.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 4:11 pm

I was seriously intending not to vote for several weeks prior to changing my mind. Dismay, sorrow, lack of enthusiasm
and not knowing what was best to do were keeping me from voting. I wanted to be free from having to choose one
over the other. I didn't want to participate in this latest Labour leadership contest.

Choosing not to vote is a bigger mistake than any made through voting. Please know I love my friends more than
I love my opinions. I hope my friends with different thoughts on voting will continue to have patience with me.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 4:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/se ... hare_btn_t" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Family courts face 'imminent crisis' over child custody cases
Sir James Munby, president of high court’s family division, issues emergency statement as number of cases soars

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 5:19 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2016 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government needs to urgently rethink its supported housing policy
Dawn Foster

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 5:21 pm

As I've said a few times, Farron's main advantage is that he is absolutely not a Westminster type.

With Cameron in charge, I felt this left the Tories vulnerable to the Libs in the shires. But I suspect May plays better there. So, their best bet must be northern metropolitan areas IMO.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 5:36 pm

Possibly with encampments of semi-ruralised area,oftens (mis)portrayed as Northern Labour heartlands.They've taken over the next village and surrounding areas were Libdem not that long ago.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 5:37 pm

Interesting.

Rafael Behr Verified account
‏@rafaelbehr

Early days, but seems Corbyn ops getting more slick. Lab maybe on course to regain Miliband-level professionalism + shallow unity by 2020.

Maybe once the inevitable happens on Saturday, MPs will realise he ain't goin' nowhere at least for a while and start to act like an opposition (to be fair a few are doing that already).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 5:47 pm

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/sou ... ng.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SOUTHWARK COUNCIL TO APPEAL GOVERNMENT’S DECISION TO BLOCK TAKEOVER OF AYLESBURY ESTATE FLATS BEFORE DEMOLITION

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 5:54 pm

The leadership contest is a choice between two wrong answers to the wrong question at the wrong time. How is even possible to get enthusiastic?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 6:38 pm

Tony Blair to close most of his commercial ventures

Tony Blair has said he is winding up most of his commercial ventures to focus on not-for-profit work.

The ex-Labour prime minister is closing his lobbying and consultancy business, Tony Blair Associates, and associated companies Windrush and Firerush.

In an email to staff, he said while he would retain a small number of commercial contracts, 80% of his time would be spent on not-for-profit work.

He has been criticised for the amount of profit the ventures have generated. (BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37416855

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 6:45 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:The leadership contest is a choice between two wrong answers to the wrong question at the wrong time. How is even possible to get enthusiastic?

I usually like voting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 6:49 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Interesting.

Rafael Behr Verified account
‏@rafaelbehr

Early days, but seems Corbyn ops getting more slick. Lab maybe on course to regain Miliband-level professionalism + shallow unity by 2020.
Maybe once the inevitable happens on Saturday, MPs will realise he ain't goin' nowhere at least for a while and start to act like an opposition (to be fair a few are doing that already).

(my emphasis)

Good, it's possible to for Labour MPs to work well enough to function together. It must happen again.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 6:53 pm

citizenJA wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:The leadership contest is a choice between two wrong answers to the wrong question at the wrong time. How is even possible to get enthusiastic?
I usually like voting.

I voted (for Owen Smith) but with less than boundless enthusiasm. However, I now can't help but feel complicit in something rather shabby. I think the whole situation could have been handled better.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 7:15 pm

I think this gives a flavour of why there will not be any normalisation under Corbyn

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/lon ... 49201.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 7:32 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:I think this gives a flavour of why there will not be any normalisation under Corbyn

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/lon ... 49201.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't understand why they're still referencing the bloke who had a go at her for working with the Telegraph, as "anti-semitic abuse", unless I've missed something.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 7:35 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 7:48 pm

He earns £130,000 a year

This point gets my goat a little bit. It's been for less than a year. Prior to that he was on a backbencher's wage. Has less than a year's wage (that is definitely much higher than most people's) somehow made him incredibly wealthy overnight? No it hasn't. Is he David Cameron wealthy now? No he isn't.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 8:23 pm

Seems like C4 have hit the mark tonight with #NoGoBritain, which is provoking some excellent comment on Twitter.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 9:14 pm

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/02/24/hil ... -problems/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These “middle-class problems” are so minor & entitled that they’re hilarious

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 10:10 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/02/24/hil ... -problems/

These “middle-class problems” are so minor & entitled that they’re hilarious

Suddenly successive Tory governments make sense. It's another world, isn't it?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 10:13 pm

Labour launches tougher policy on 'tsunami of online abuse'

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... line-abuse

Party members will have to explicitly promise “to act within the spirit and rules of the Labour party in my conduct both on and offline, with members and non-members”.

The statement they will have to sign adds: “I stand against all forms of abuse. I understand that if found to be in breach of the Labour party policy on online and offline abuse, I will be subject to the rules and procedures of the Labour party.”

Punishments could include being suspended from the party or eventually being expelled.

The pledge will be linked to a social media code of conduct, drawn up by the party, which warns that “harassment, intimidation, hateful language and bullying” will not be tolerated. It also lists discrimination on the basis of gender, race, religion, age, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

Good.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 10:19 pm

Another burst in with a funny

#AskCarswell Ukip’s Douglas Carswell Gets Trolled Over Science Gaffe
‘How do Sardines get in the tin if the key is on the outside?’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/u ... e52a12a1c0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 11:14 pm

Plasnewydd (Cardiff) result:
LDEM: 48.1% (+15.4)
LAB: 34.8% (-2.0)
PC: 6.8% (-5.3)
CON: 4.4% (-1.2)
GRN: 3.6% (-9.3)
UKIP: 2.4% (+2.4)

ChrisDean · Post by **ChrisDean** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 11:31 pm

23 percent turnout...triumph!!!!

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Tue 20 Sep, 2016 11:47 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Another burst in with a funny

#AskCarswell Ukip’s Douglas Carswell Gets Trolled Over Science Gaffe
‘How do Sardines get in the tin if the key is on the outside?’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/u ... e52a12a1c0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Remember folks, Carswell is the intelligent kipper.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 3:09 am

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-09-1 ... -meetings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Deaf people left without interpreters for PIP meetings

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 3:44 am

http://www.labour-southeast.org.uk/dunc ... for_witney" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Duncan Enright selected as Labour's candidate for Witney

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 4:09 am

Steve Hilton in Torygraph

"There is such an underclass. Shamefully, it has been there for decades. And the pressure to do something serious about it – to eliminate the grotesque generational worklessness, addiction, debt and family breakdown that ought to preoccupy our national conscience – "

When asked for evidence on twitter,mentioned data,when asked for fictitious data,for obvious reasons couldn't give.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 4:14 am

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PAC Report into improving access to mental health services

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 4:18 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... workers-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit could trigger crisis in care for older and disabled people
UK care sector’s reliance on EU workers means they must be given right to remain in any future arrangements, charities say

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 6:22 am

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... re-females" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Male redback spiders evade cannibalism by mating with immature females
Survival tactic also increases chances of successful insemination, with the immature females able to store sperm until they reach adulthood

Males approaching females are also sometimes mistaken for prey and eaten before mating occurs

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Sep, 2016 6:31 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ct-surgery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RNIB report: Patients in England face 15-month wait for cataract surgery
Long delays caused by NHS drive for ‘efficiency savings’ causing misery for mainly elderly patients, charity says