Forum rules Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
I don't think I've ever been this sad & heavy hearted over politics
Labour have nothing to offer those who oppose the Tories, they're too weak. And they have nothing to offer those who oppose Brexit, they're too divided. I've always supported the union, but faced with current government, if I was Scottish I'd be behind the SNP right now. At least they opposed the referendum, even if they were unable to stop it they showed themselves to be the only main party with an iota of common sense in this whole debacle.
Edited to add that the point about Labour being unclear on Brexit is that those who support it will incline to the Tories, while those against will incline to the SNP, leaving Labour without a role. I'm not sure that was clear in my above comment.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
James Melville
@JamesMelville
Sept UK fiscal deficit £10.6bn, up 14.5% on year.
Despite all the public services cuts, UK national debt has doubled to £1.7trn since 2010.
Keir StarmerVerified account
@Keir_Starmer Keir Starmer Retweeted JOHN NICOLSON M.P.
Govt talks out 'Turing Bill': wrong decision: with political will, these wrongs could have been righted. @MrJohnNicolson has been let down.
AngryAsWell wrote:Keir StarmerVerified account
@Keir_Starmer Keir Starmer Retweeted JOHN NICOLSON M.P.
Govt talks out 'Turing Bill': wrong decision: with political will, these wrongs could have been righted. @MrJohnNicolson has been let down.
AngryAsWell wrote:James Melville
@JamesMelville
Sept UK fiscal deficit £10.6bn, up 14.5% on year.
Despite all the public services cuts, UK national debt has doubled to £1.7trn since 2010.
Due to lower than expected Corporation Tax receipts. Think George might have had his Laffer Curve upside down
AngryAsWell wrote:James Melville
@JamesMelville
Sept UK fiscal deficit £10.6bn, up 14.5% on year.
Despite all the public services cuts, UK national debt has doubled to £1.7trn since 2010.
Due to lower than expected Corporation Tax receipts. Think George might have had his Laffer Curve upside down
It will only get worse, I would have thought. Retailers will be juggling higher costs because of the weak pound with the need to retain market share with customers unable to absorb price rises because of stagnant wages. They'll be facing drops in profit, which means less tax for the government.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
AngryAsWell wrote:James Melville
@JamesMelville
Sept UK fiscal deficit £10.6bn, up 14.5% on year.
Despite all the public services cuts, UK national debt has doubled to £1.7trn since 2010.
Due to lower than expected Corporation Tax receipts. Think George might have had his Laffer Curve upside down
It will only get worse, I would have thought. Retailers will be juggling higher costs because of the weak pound with the need to retain market share with customers unable to absorb price rises because of stagnant wages. They'll be facing drops in profit, which means less tax for the government.
AngryAsWell wrote:James Melville
@JamesMelville
Sept UK fiscal deficit £10.6bn, up 14.5% on year.
Despite all the public services cuts, UK national debt has doubled to £1.7trn since 2010.
Due to lower than expected Corporation Tax receipts. Think George might have had his Laffer Curve upside down
Or at the very least, kinked.
Does his depravity know no bounds?
AngryAsWell wrote:James Melville
@JamesMelville
Sept UK fiscal deficit £10.6bn, up 14.5% on year.
Despite all the public services cuts, UK national debt has doubled to £1.7trn since 2010.
Due to lower than expected Corporation Tax receipts. Think George might have had his Laffer Curve upside down
Or at the very least, kinked.
Does his depravity know no bounds?
I don't think I've ever been this sad & heavy hearted over politics
Labour have nothing to offer those who oppose the Tories, they're too weak. And they have nothing to offer those who oppose Brexit, they're too divided. I've always supported the union, but faced with current government, if I was Scottish I'd be behind the SNP right now. At least they opposed the referendum, even if they were unable to stop it they showed themselves to be the only main party with an iota of common sense in this whole debacle.
Edited to add that the point about Labour being unclear on Brexit is that those who support it will incline to the Tories, while those against will incline to the SNP, leaving Labour without a role. I'm not sure that was clear in my above comment.
I agree and I too would probably vote for independence if I lived in Scotland.
However, Sturgeon really scored an own goal by her hostility to Labour and her and her party's role in smearing Labour as 'Red Tories'. For her, as far as the Tories were concerned, it was a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend - however much she may have protested otherwise. If Ed had been PM we'd have never have been in this abysmal Brexit situation. Many of the people who voted to leave did so as a direct result of austerity and the running down of the NHS, all the stuff for which the Tories can be held responsible for.
I can't see May being very cooperative regarding Sturgeon's demand for another Referendum. We could consequently face a situation like Ireland and the Troubles. Sturgeon should have realised you can never trust the Tories.
AnatolyKasparov wrote:LibDems and Labour (just) outpolled the Tories in Witney. That only previously happened in the 1997 and 2001 Labour landslides.
Yes, but they've swapped places, with the Libdems taking 30% of the vote this time round when it was Labour taking 30% back in 1997. So not especially encouraging for Labour, although Corbyn doesn't seem to have made much difference one way or another with Labour on a similar percentage to the 2015 GE, I believe.
Interesting too that Labour membership in the constituency more than doubled from 500 to 1200, but the vote still fell.
It would probably have fallen further, but for that.
Have been otherwise occupied as the weather's been good and we had a lovely day out yesterday to Pembrokeshire.
Agree with you AngryAsWell. Was also disheartened to hear that Milne may be staying in role.
Also I've been working on a new hairdo, floral frock and brushing up on my feather duster technique and trolling around.
Now I've been anointed FTN's Hyacinth Bucket [pronounced Bouquet, if you please] I don't want to disappoint.
Last edited by yahyah on Fri 21 Oct, 2016 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Yes, the two by-elections don't really back up the depressing polls. I genuinely think a significant part of the current Tory "support" is media driven froth.
Not really, see my previous posts. Its the sort of seat that will literally never vote Labour, but might for the LibDems in the right circumstances.
Labour's vote did not collapse.
(btw some LibDems think that given a few more weeks of campaigning they might have made it genuinely close - the Tories will not be looking forward to any Richmond Park contest now)
This is good news, although about a very depressing and sad case.
It's taken thirty years for ex-police superintendent Gordon Angelsea to face proper justice for his appalling sexual abuse of boys in care homes in North Wales.
This is for LetsSkip. She asked me once about how Plaid in Ceredigion handled austerity.
They get in PricewaterhouseCoopers and pay them a lot of money, that's how.
Our council leader will not discuss the contract she agreed with them and gets cross when pressed on it.
Theresa May loses Britain in late-night poker game
THE prime minister has lost British sovereignty to Germany in a game of poker at the European summit in Brussels.
Theresa May was invited into the 2am game on the pretext that it would be “good practice” for upcoming Brexit negotiations, and despite inexperience enjoyed an initial run of luck.
An onlooker said: “They played for matches at first, to teach her the rules, but Theresa was doing so well that Charles Michel of Belgium suggested they ‘make it interesting’.
“She won Luxembourg with a queen-jack bluff and managed to build up a little pot of Baltic states, but when she tried to leave the table Hollande said it was only polite to give everyone a chance to win it back.
“Within two hands she’d lost Scotland to an inside straight, went white as a sheet saying Nicola would kill her, then compounded the mistake by going all in when Merkel had a flush.
“Britain is run from Germany now, Brexit isn’t happening, and its people are slaves cruelly forced to develop a stable manufacturing base and invest in renewable energy.”
May said: “I have learned that keeping your hand secret is not the only thing it takes to win at poker. You also need to know how the game works and how strong the other players’ hands are.
“Unfortunately I have learned this just slightly too late.”
I don't think I've ever been this sad & heavy hearted over politics
Labour have nothing to offer those who oppose the Tories, they're too weak. And they have nothing to offer those who oppose Brexit, they're too divided. I've always supported the union, but faced with current government, if I was Scottish I'd be behind the SNP right now. At least they opposed the referendum, even if they were unable to stop it they showed themselves to be the only main party with an iota of common sense in this whole debacle.
Edited to add that the point about Labour being unclear on Brexit is that those who support it will incline to the Tories, while those against will incline to the SNP, leaving Labour without a role. I'm not sure that was clear in my above comment.
Quite so. Labour is slowly deflating.
If things are this bad with pollsters who historically give Labour better ratings, imagine ComRes and TNS.
SNP would be a good opposition, were it not for the fact that every issue is seen through independence.
That's LetsSkip's neck of the woods, maybe if she pops in again she may have some local knowledge ?
Hiya yahyah, it's actually the seat I reside in, contrary to what was written early there's really no mitigating circumstances, a very popular, down to earth councillor died, a very good man who got things done, admittedly a favour here and a favour there, he didn't bullshit people and was straight as they came, people liked him, his proposed replacement was of the same ilk, I don't know why the vote collapsed, it's all very depressing, locally and bloody nationally.
Only thing keeping me going is the, hopefully complete anhilation of the GOP.
I don't think I've ever been this sad & heavy hearted over politics
Labour have nothing to offer those who oppose the Tories, they're too weak. And they have nothing to offer those who oppose Brexit, they're too divided. I've always supported the union, but faced with current government, if I was Scottish I'd be behind the SNP right now. At least they opposed the referendum, even if they were unable to stop it they showed themselves to be the only main party with an iota of common sense in this whole debacle.
Edited to add that the point about Labour being unclear on Brexit is that those who support it will incline to the Tories, while those against will incline to the SNP, leaving Labour without a role. I'm not sure that was clear in my above comment.
Quite so. Labour is slowly deflating.
If things are this bad with pollsters who historically give Labour better ratings, imagine ComRes and TNS.
SNP would be a good opposition, were it not for the fact that every issue is seen through independence.
God forbid that anyone would see every issue through a particular political lens.
That's LetsSkip's neck of the woods, maybe if she pops in again she may have some local knowledge ?
Hiya yahyah, it's actually the seat I reside in, contrary to what was written early there's really no mitigating circumstances, a very popular, down to earth councillor died, a very good man who got things done, admittedly a favour here and a favour there, he didn't bullshit people and was straight as they came, people liked him, his proposed replacement was of the same ilk, I don't know why the vote collapsed, it's all very depressing, locally and bloody nationally.
Only thing keeping me going is the, hopefully complete anhilation of the GOP.
Thanks for that hopeful comment LetsSkip - indeed the US taking a more hopeful turn (regardless of some aspects of Hilary) is likely to feed through here at some point....
And can I just say that surely the conclusion that we should draw from any bad Labour performances is that Labour (indeed any party) does badly when it is divided. Full stop.
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:And can I just say that surely the conclusion that we should draw from any bad Labour performances is that Labour (indeed any party) does badly when it is divided. Full stop.
I agree. Although I live in a constituency very similar to Witney, should I be voting Labour or Libdem? I don't want Tories, but libdems don't deserve trust on EU, after all? They haven't even signed a pledge on it
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:And can I just say that surely the conclusion that we should draw from any bad Labour performances is that Labour (indeed any party) does badly when it is divided. Full stop.
Quite so.
Which is why electing someone who it was ridiculous to expect to be able to lead a PLP with completely different views was such destructive folly.
(Not that it really makes much difference. Even if the party pretended to unite behind JC, the polls would still be dire. Corbyn doesn't look like a PM in waiting to anyone.)
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:And can I just say that surely the conclusion that we should draw from any bad Labour performances is that Labour (indeed any party) does badly when it is divided. Full stop.
Quite so.
Which is why electing someone who it was ridiculous to expect to be able to lead a PLP with completely different views was such destructive folly.
(Not that it really makes much difference. Even if the party pretended to unite behind JC, the polls would still be dire. Corbyn doesn't look like a PM in waiting to anyone.)
Who would you recommend instead? If they'd have picked a focus group approved candidate, people like me would not be voting Labour, I.e. If I vote labour it is to improve their vote share, I'm having a Tory MP whether I like it or not. What impact do you think people in situations like mine have on polls? It's easy to register a protest vote if it makes no difference
we've been here before and it never goes well. Realistically, following the legitimisation of hatred, Pim Fortuyn stylee, Labour's biggest problem is that the country has liberated selfish racist bigotry
