Wednesday 2nd November 2016

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 1:20 pm

Article 50 Court Case judgement tomorrow at 10am.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 1:33 pm

I, Daniel Blake shows us the virtuous ‘deserving poor’ – how conservative - the guardian
https://apple.news/Aer3VHpOGQRq6QHbdNKzmYQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I, too, have questions. Where are the people who drink too much and get into fights? Where are those who buy scratchcards because they think the meagre chances they offer are still better than the hopeless cycle of underemployment and sanctions? Where are the unemployed who have given up?
The world of poverty in I, Daniel Blake is sanitised. Blake is a good worker. He has no vices. He helps a stranger out of the goodness of his heart. He is the avatar of the deserving poor, and this is the problem. In trying to evoke the sympathy of his audience towards kindly but unfortunate souls, Loach allows the viewer to conclude that the dehumanising welfare system is only a problem if it hurts the wrong people.

Anyone else a bit sick of the commentariat complaining that a bit of film propaganda fails to stereotype unemployed people in the way that people expect them to be stereotyped because of the propaganda they've relentlessly been exposed to by the right wing media? Benefits Street is propaganda too, ffs.

I, Daniel Blake is not a documentary. It isn't there to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's there to present a side. It does it reasonably well (not one of Loach's best films, imo, by quite some way). It makes people react - lots of people weeping at the end of it at the cinema I saw it in - ergo, it's done the job it set out to do with the people who have viewed it.

If you need to see the propaganda from the other side then watch the godawful benefits porn on Channel 4 and 5.

More generally:

First rule of film making - your main character(s) need to induce a feeling of empathy in the viewer otherwise they won't like or enjoy your film. It's as simple as that. If your characters do not illicit any positive reaction or emotion in your viewers your film is done for. It'll get shit reviews and people will not watch it.

On the 'why isn't he drinking and smoking like poor people do?' stereotype: Daniel Blake has just had a heart attack, ffs. Do any of the people commenting on this film not cotton on that this may be why he isn't drinking or smoking? He's worried about his health. That's the crux of the film - that he wants to be healthy so he can work, but that he's too unhealthy to do so. There's even a scene in the film that infers that this is the case, where he is invited out for a drink with his former colleagues, but has to refuse - not because he's teetotal, but because of the situation he is in. In other words, he'd have been more than happy to go if he was well and working. IOW, he's as much a boozer as your average working man.

Lastly. These articles by London-based journos and controversialists don't half expose just how little they know about the north of the country and the people who live there. Unlike too many people here, not everyone is a selfish, self-centred prick and they do actually express concern about their friends and colleagues. They do try to help out. There are plenty of Daniel Blakes in the North East. There are plenty who aren't like him too, but the character is 'real' enough to be someone you could actually have met in Newcastle.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 1:34 pm

#Peter Smith

Theresa May's poppy is remarkable. What a shame we get referrals from the British Legion at our Foodbank. #PMQs

Post by **adam** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 1:40 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Anyone else a bit sick of the commentariat complaining that a bit of film propaganda fails to stereotype unemployed people in the way that people expect them to be stereotyped because of the propaganda they've relentlessly been exposed to by the right wing media? Benefits Street is propaganda too, ffs.

'He's supposed to be English but he isn't drinking tea from a china cup'.

'He's supposed to be Jewish but he isn't counting his money amidst the entrails of the working class'

Etc.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 2:19 pm

Ukip leadership favourite Paul Nuttall has praised Nigel Farage’s controversial anti-migrant poster, saying it made an “absolutely correct” point that there is a “deluge of people coming from the Middle East”.

Nuttall, the former deputy leader, backed the poster during a hustings event for Ukip leadership candidates on radio station LBC, which descended into bickering and acrimony over issues ranging from homophobia to the death penalty. (Guardian)

What - no altercation?

Edited to add link

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ul-nuttall

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 2:36 pm

Tories face questions over support of Keith Vaz committee appointment (Guardian)

He shouldn't have been supported by anyone whilst the investigation was ongoing. Least still by Labour.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ppointment

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 2:51 pm

Wetherspoon's boss: we could drop European brands over Brexit bullying

Tim Martin says UK is in a stronger position than people think and could switch away from EU suppliers

He said: “I don’t think Wetherspoon or British buyers are in a weak position because we can switch from Swedish cider to British cider. So the people put in a weak position are the sellers and I think that is the paradox that has not been illustrated. The UK is in a much more powerful position than most economists would assume.” (Guardian)

Why wasn't this super-patriot buying British cider already?

Edited to add link -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tim-martin

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 2:54 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Wetherspoon's boss: we could drop European brands over Brexit bullying

Tim Martin says UK is in a stronger position than people think and could switch away from EU suppliers

He said: “I don’t think Wetherspoon or British buyers are in a weak position because we can switch from Swedish cider to British cider. So the people put in a weak position are the sellers and I think that is the paradox that has not been illustrated. The UK is in a much more powerful position than most economists would assume.” (Guardian)
Why wasn't this super-patriot buying British cider already?

Edited to add link -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tim-martin

It isn't a paradox either.

Post by **adam** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 2:57 pm

A new poll of Michigan voters by the Institute for public policy and social research at Michigan state university has Clinton... up by 20 points in a head-to-head race with Trump. The state is not much polled; HuffPost Pollster’s average has Clinton up by about six points there

From the grauniad US live blog.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 2:58 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Wetherspoon's boss: we could drop European brands over Brexit bullying

Tim Martin says UK is in a stronger position than people think and could switch away from EU suppliers

He said: “I don’t think Wetherspoon or British buyers are in a weak position because we can switch from Swedish cider to British cider. So the people put in a weak position are the sellers and I think that is the paradox that has not been illustrated. The UK is in a much more powerful position than most economists would assume.” (Guardian)
Why wasn't this super-patriot buying British cider already?

Edited to add link -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tim-martin
It isn't a paradox either.

Yes, indeed.

Edited to add -

Or should that be "No, indeed"?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 3:23 pm

An update on the "Admiral" insurance\"Facebook" thing -

Facebook forces Admiral to pull plan to price car insurance based on posts

Insurer withdraws initiative with hours to go as privacy campaigners criticise ‘intrusive’ attempt to analyse users’ data (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... ivacy-data

Edited - typo

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 4:23 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
But University isn't even mentioned in that text, so it's not clear to me that it is "key" for Corbyn. I agree to some extent with what you say about University fees. But what about "universal public childcare"? And "free education for all" presumably includes schools & colleges, not just, if at all, universities.

I know it isn't. This was all spelled out in detail during the campaign over the summer.

As for the rest, during the summer Corbyn gave up even pretending to cost his programme. It just became free lunches for everyone. That wont last ten minutes in an actual election.

But that won't be the worst of it. The Tories (and the Evil Media) will focus relentlessly on the background of Corbyn and McDonnell. Surprising I know, but most voters have no clue about McDonnell's support for the IRA. The midterm 28% Labour is on now will start to look good.

Don' know quite how we got from "universal public childcare" and "free education for all" to John McDonnell and the IRA! Hey ho...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 4:41 pm

Chilcot and Mansfield. This week has been a reminder of how much I'd enjoy talking to them (well, mainly listening) over a pint.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 4:43 pm

adam wrote:
A new poll of Michigan voters by the Institute for public policy and social research at Michigan state university has Clinton... up by 20 points in a head-to-head race with Trump. The state is not much polled; HuffPost Pollster’s average has Clinton up by about six points there

From the grauniad US live blog.

Perhaps they were swayed by "Michael Moore in Trumpland". He's from Michigan, after all, and he made some pretty compelling arguments as to why voting for Trump isn't necessarily in the interests of a lot of ordinary voters, however justifiably angry they may be with the establishment.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 5:06 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Chilcot and Mansfield. This week has been a reminder of how much I'd enjoy talking to them (well, mainly listening) over a pint.

On Mansfield. I would recommend his book Memoirs of a Radical Lawyer if you have not already come across it.

Brilliant read which gives a significantly different view on many of the high profile cases, inquests and public inquiries of recent(ish) years.

Sounds dry but he has a very relaxed and readable style when talking of such issues as the Stephen Lawrence case, Birmingham six and Jean Charles de Menezes amongst others.

Very enjoyable and thought provoking giving much more detail and alternative,additional facts to the main stream media perspective.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 5:38 pm

Good-evening, everyone.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 5:55 pm

have just found a page of sweatshirts irritating
http://www.romwe.com/UK-Cool-Sweatshirt ... 30-300*250" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is it age?

not even sure how it arrived on my screen either.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 5:56 pm

Plus.
I miss seeing Ryan Giggs. (on the pitch)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:01 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:have just found a page of sweatshirts irritating
http://www.romwe.com/UK-Cool-Sweatshirt ... 30-300*250" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is it age?

not even sure how it arrived on my screen either.

Hey, thanks for the link! Cool!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:09 pm

sorry about that

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:11 pm

UK Christmas ad spend to hit record high of over £5bn (Guardian)

How much clean, safe water would that provide to those without, I wonder?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... f-over-5bn

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:23 pm

Moody’s said a loss of access could lead to lower growth in Britain over the medium-term and damage the public finances.

“We would downgrade the UK’s sovereign rating if the outcome of the negotiations with the EU was a loss of access to the
single market as this would materially damage its medium-term growth prospects”, said Kathrin Muehlbronner, a senior
vice-president at Moody’s.

“A second trigger for a downgrade would be if we were to conclude that the credibility
of the UK’s fiscal policy had been tarnished as a result of Brexit or other reasons.”

- Moody's warns of UK credit rating downgrade

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ade-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA emphasis)

Millions of independent information gatherers base Tory economic competence on what, please?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:28 pm

Christmas ads. That's where the belief in Tory economic competence comes from, advertisers spending bank on persuasive marketing.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:51 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 93136.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit immigration myths.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:52 pm

I was a dancing penguin
Now I'm a bouncing bomb

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:52 pm

to paraphrase

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:57 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I was a dancing penguin
Now I'm a bouncing bomb

I really liked the pumpkin-coloured hooded sweatshirt. It's too big for me.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 6:57 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 91581.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
german hydrail

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 7:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:
UK Christmas ad spend to hit record high of over £5bn (Guardian)
How much clean, safe water would that provide to those without, I wonder?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... f-over-5bn

We've advertisers to thank for giving the people demanding nearly £6bn worth of Christmas ads their wish for more Christmas ads. They're doing it for the people, PorFavor.

Vordy · Post by **Vordy** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 7:06 pm

A lurker passing by,thought this might be of interest.

Crispin Odey, whose main hedge fund has lost about 43 percent this year, says U.K. stocks could slump 80 percent as the economy is roiled by a recession and higher inflation following the vote to leave the European Union.

Source:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... plummet-80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 7:12 pm

High court rules UK government plans to tackle air pollution are illegal

Court rules for second time in 18 months that the government is not doing enough to combat the national air pollution crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... re-illegal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for this posted earlier, PorFavor.

ClientEarth defeated the government on the same issue at the supreme court in April 2015. Ministers
were then ordered to draw up a new action plan, but now that new plan has also been found to be illegal.

Documents revealed during the latest case showed the Treasury had blocked plans to charge diesel cars to enter
towns and cities blighted by air pollution, concerned about the political impact of angering motorists. Both the environment
and transport departments recommended changes to vehicle excise duty rates to encourage the purchase of low-pollution vehicles,
but the Treasury also rejected that idea.

Documents further showed that the government’s plan to bring air pollution down to legal levels by 2020 for some cities and 2025
for London had been chosen because that was the date ministers thought they would face European commission fines, not which
they considered “as soon as possible”.

There had been a draft government plan for 16 low emission zones, which polluting vehicles are charged to enter, in cities outside London
but the number was cut to just five on cost grounds.

Look upon this and understand Tory government's priorities. Know Tory government are indifferent to most peoples' fate.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 7:17 pm

Sadiq Khan testified against Tory government in the court ruling.

My spouse suffers from asthma. We live in an area regularly breaching air pollution limits. Tory government thinks clean air is too expensive for us to have.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 7:53 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94021.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The ship, run by Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), is the largest humanitarian vessel patrolling the Mediterranean Sea, rescuing or transporting 8,534 migrants in the past six months alone.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 7:59 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... ear-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But Attenborough took issue with the BBC’s decision to sack controversial Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson, citing a need for his “profoundly anti-establishment” voice.

disappointed emoticon

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 8:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94021.html
The ship, run by Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), is the largest humanitarian vessel patrolling the Mediterranean Sea, rescuing or transporting 8,534 migrants in the past six months alone.

I'm grateful the ship is there and the crew devote time and resources saving lives.
People don't bolt for no good reason. Why are thousands of people risking their lives in the Mediterranean Sea?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 8:45 pm

Moon looms:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 94211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Biggest supermoon in living memory to appear in the sky, as 2016 ends with three huge full moons in a row
The moon will be closer to Earth than it has been since 1948, and it won’t get as close again until 2034

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 8:54 pm

Vordy wrote:A lurker passing by,thought this might be of interest.

Crispin Odey, whose main hedge fund has lost about 43 percent this year, says U.K. stocks could slump 80 percent as the economy is roiled by a recession and higher inflation following the vote to leave the European Union.

Source:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... plummet-80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A timely reminder of who benefits from Brexit - hedge fund bosses and......well, that's about it really, isn't it? All this so a few billionaires can make a few billion more. Too depressing for words.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:00 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:have just found a page of sweatshirts irritating
http://www.romwe.com/UK-Cool-Sweatshirt ... 30-300*250" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is it age?

not even sure how it arrived on my screen either.

If you've got spare capacity to be irritated,
There's a heartfelt , "2016 sucked" T-shirt available here:-

https://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?S ... ry_Code=QC

Though pricey enough to make me want to make my own.

Also, for any owl lovers out there:

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:05 pm

Don't say I never do anything for you:

: clangers look at supermoons.jpg (48.13 KiB) Viewed 11084 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:06 pm

@tinyclanger2

It seems that, since the last general election, I've developed an infinite capacity for being irritated.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:08 pm

Night night.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:08 pm

But do you seethe?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:09 pm

I did so much seething the other day (overbooking) there were concerns the rozzers might be required.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:15 pm

Should anyone give a hoot (get it owls ... coat):

: micro vs super moon.jpg (7.33 KiB) Viewed 11067 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:18 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 9:53 pm

ScarletGas wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Chilcot and Mansfield. This week has been a reminder of how much I'd enjoy talking to them (well, mainly listening) over a pint.
On Mansfield. I would recommend his book Memoirs of a Radical Lawyer if you have not already come across it.

Brilliant read which gives a significantly different view on many of the high profile cases, inquests and public inquiries of recent(ish) years.

Sounds dry but he has a very relaxed and readable style when talking of such issues as the Stephen Lawrence case, Birmingham six and Jean Charles de Menezes amongst others.

Very enjoyable and thought provoking giving much more detail and alternative,additional facts to the main stream media perspective.

Thanks for that SG, i'll add it to my xmas ideas list!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 10:50 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... -to-beauty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Minister of State for Transport John Hayes calls for beauty in transport.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 10:52 pm

Stirring stuff

What a statement it will be of the revolt against the Cult of Ugliness, of our new orthodoxy.

We can and will turn back the tide.

My certain conviction is unwavering.

We will beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly to new elegance, style and beauty.

So be warmed - or warned - when I speak next I will set out when and how.

How we will change what is built and what is saved – roads, rail and beyond.

Some who did the damage to our country were crass and careless.

But some wrought monstrous havoc knowingly, wilfully.

All of them Philistines.

Well now the Philistines have met their David.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 10:54 pm

Bono wins a Woman of the Year award.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Nov, 2016 11:09 pm

Ku Klux Clan backs Trump
Susan Sarandon doesn't vote with her vagina.
Boris saying Brexit will be a Titanic success.