Thursday 3rd November 2016
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Thursday 3rd November 2016
Morning all.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Morning.
Just to flag some great posts late last night
Just to flag some great posts late last night
- JonnyT1234
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
A reprise for one of them:
Boris Johnson Says 'Brexit' Will Be A 'Titanic Success' - The Huffington Post - UK
https://apple.news/AgEizW1uFQdSrfsVbavc3mw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, we already knew that, thank you very much.
Boris Johnson Says 'Brexit' Will Be A 'Titanic Success' - The Huffington Post - UK
https://apple.news/AgEizW1uFQdSrfsVbavc3mw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, we already knew that, thank you very much.
Alan Partridge: "Oh yeah, people go on about Titanic, Titanic... Let me tell you something about the Titanic. People forget that on the Titanic’s maiden voyage there were over 1,000 miles of uneventful, very pleasurable cruising before it hit the iceberg!"
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I hate to speak up on Johnson's behalf but... as an Oxford Classics man he would have been using the word titanic as an adjective not as a reference to the Titanic. Titans, and all that, the reason the ship was called Titanic.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
The Titans also fell as a consequence of their own hubris. Fwiw.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Must read analysis (several tweets in a chain, btw):
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;1 A little tweetstorm on Germany's #Brexit position and economic ties between GER & UK to follow. Not for faint-hearted among Brexiteers.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Also, Titanic had a clearly set out destination,JonnyT1234 wrote:A reprise for one of them:
Boris Johnson Says 'Brexit' Will Be A 'Titanic Success' - The Huffington Post - UK
https://apple.news/AgEizW1uFQdSrfsVbavc3mw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, we already knew that, thank you very much.
Alan Partridge: "Oh yeah, people go on about Titanic, Titanic... Let me tell you something about the Titanic. People forget that on the Titanic’s maiden voyage there were over 1,000 miles of uneventful, very pleasurable cruising before it hit the iceberg!"
& didn't have 48% of it's passengers not wanting to go there.
(as opposed to actual final destination, where presumably, no-one wanted to go)
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
The 48% are being locked in steerage.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I missed this the other day.
The Welsh Government have ok'd scallop dredging to restart in Cardigan Bay so as not to stand in the way of 'economic activity'.
Very disappointing. Let's hope they are right and there's no damage to our wildlife.
We saw a group of dolphins close to Cei Newydd when we walked the coastal path two weeks ago.
It's one of the perks of living here. Important for the local tourist businesses too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-37822044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... s-12106649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Welsh Government have ok'd scallop dredging to restart in Cardigan Bay so as not to stand in the way of 'economic activity'.
Very disappointing. Let's hope they are right and there's no damage to our wildlife.
We saw a group of dolphins close to Cei Newydd when we walked the coastal path two weeks ago.
It's one of the perks of living here. Important for the local tourist businesses too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-37822044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... s-12106649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Morning all. My regular swimming session with the kids later but until then...
NHS structures 'complex and confused'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37846112
Apart from Grayling, Gove...actually there's quite a list now.
NHS structures 'complex and confused'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37846112
Worst. Minister. Ever.The way the NHS in England is organised is hindering its ability to meet its challenges, a review led by former Health Secretary Alan Milburn says.
Mr Milburn said the current system was "confused and complex".
The review, for consultants PwC, called for a gradual evolution of the structures, saying those who worked in the health service supported reform.
But the Department of Health said its plan for the future would be "delivered within the NHS's existing structures".
The PwC report was critical of the changes introduced in 2012 by then Health Secretary Andrew Lansley, which have resulted in the creation of "myriad" national organisations, including:
NHS England
NHS Improvement
Health Education England
Public Health England
The consultancy said it meant hospitals and other services faced the "daunting challenge of managing competing requirements".
Apart from Grayling, Gove...actually there's quite a list now.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Oh, and the prison service adding 2,500 new people?
Bet that's going down well in certain quarters...
Bet that's going down well in certain quarters...
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Oh dear....the "who do we blame?" is already happening...
Sam Coates Times Verified account
@SamCoatesTimes
I'm told Number 10 believes that government lawyers "haven't covered themselves in glory" over the handing of A50 case
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
This one is worth following for the A50 judgement apparently.
https://twitter.com/Greg_Callus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/Greg_Callus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
https://akindoftrouble.wordpress.com/20 ... -too-much/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The lady doth protest too much
Troubled Famiies Programme
The lady doth protest too much
Troubled Famiies Programme
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Adult social care underfunding is increasing the strain on A&E
The Government urgently needs to address the underfunding of adult social care to relieve pressure on A&E departments, says the Health Committee in its report on winter planning in A&E departments.
Adult social care underfunding is increasing the strain on A&E
The Government urgently needs to address the underfunding of adult social care to relieve pressure on A&E departments, says the Health Committee in its report on winter planning in A&E departments.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1526800 ... ss-figures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour Press
John Healey comments on child homelessness figures from Shelter
Labour Press
John Healey comments on child homelessness figures from Shelter
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Claimants win.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Wow.
Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham 1m1 minute ago
Court does not accept that argument of the Government. Claimants win!
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Cat, meet pigeons.RogerOThornhill wrote:Wow.
Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham 1m1 minute ago
Court does not accept that argument of the Government. Claimants win!
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Now wonder the AG wasn't in court!
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Peter Walker @peterwalker99 15s16 seconds ago
Maybe the government could appeal to thee European Court of Human Rights?
Hugo Rifkind @hugorifkind 3m3 minutes ago
I suppose Brexiters must be wishing there was some sort of supranational court that could overrule ours about now, eh? OR IS THERE?
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I was watching Sky News (sorry), Faisal Islam outside the High Court couldn't stop grinning as he announced it.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... ean-union/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
He says it's because he'd predicted it.gilsey wrote:I was watching Sky News (sorry), Faisal Islam outside the High Court couldn't stop grinning as he announced it.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Damian Green in front of Scottish Parliament Social Security Committee
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Home/I ... e86e0baf3f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Home/I ... e86e0baf3f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Government has appealed
To be heard at SupremeCourt in Dec.
Then European Court.
#TheresaMay is now prisoner of #Tory Right..
#HighCourt
To be heard at SupremeCourt in Dec.
Then European Court.
#TheresaMay is now prisoner of #Tory Right..
#HighCourt
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
#Greg Callus(thanks Roger)
Biggest question right now is whether Parliament Acts can be used to give Gvt power if Commons passes Article 50 Bill but Lords rejects it.
Biggest question right now is whether Parliament Acts can be used to give Gvt power if Commons passes Article 50 Bill but Lords rejects it.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Oh boo - no swimming as there's a massive snarl-up after an accident. Kids will be so disappointed.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Government to appeal.
Supreme Court here we come.
If it does go to Parliament (gut instinct says it won't), are we expecting open warfare return?
Supreme Court here we come.
If it does go to Parliament (gut instinct says it won't), are we expecting open warfare return?
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I've just heard Dominic Raab interviewed on the BBC TV News re the High Court outcome.
In essence, he doesn't like the existence of the right for people to challenge the Government in the courts. He tried to back-track a bit at the end but it was there for all to see and hear.
In essence, he doesn't like the existence of the right for people to challenge the Government in the courts. He tried to back-track a bit at the end but it was there for all to see and hear.
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Good-morning, everyone.
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Morning! How are you today?citizenJA wrote:Good-morning, everyone.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Yes, though its not just the Tories who might find that a bit uncomfortable tbph.StephenDolan wrote:Government to appeal.
Supreme Court here we come.
If it does go to Parliament (gut instinct says it won't), are we expecting open warfare return?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
How should Labour proceed?
I'm thinking that most people that voted don't really know what they voted for, more what they voted against.
If Labour sprinkled a bit of IDS (spit) sophistry dust would that help? The child poverty measure approach. You could still claim Brexit has taken place but pushing for a long, long list of what needs keeping and crucially identified by the general public as Good Things.
I'm glad we've got Starmer to push the Labour view.
And most of all, repeatedly punch the £350m extra for the NHS bruise whenever Hoey, Stuart and Mann complain in public.
I'm thinking that most people that voted don't really know what they voted for, more what they voted against.
If Labour sprinkled a bit of IDS (spit) sophistry dust would that help? The child poverty measure approach. You could still claim Brexit has taken place but pushing for a long, long list of what needs keeping and crucially identified by the general public as Good Things.
I'm glad we've got Starmer to push the Labour view.
And most of all, repeatedly punch the £350m extra for the NHS bruise whenever Hoey, Stuart and Mann complain in public.
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I now expect Nigel Farage to make a "reluctant" comeback (not that he ever really went).
Wonder how he'll spin not wanting to support the sovereignty of Parliament?
Wonder how he'll spin not wanting to support the sovereignty of Parliament?
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
At least Jeremy Corbyn has come out with an immediate statement on this. (Politics Live, Guardian)StephenDolan wrote:How should Labour proceed?
I'm thinking that most people that voted don't really know what they voted for, more what they voted against.
If Labour sprinkled a bit of IDS (spit) sophistry dust would that help? The child poverty measure approach. You could still claim Brexit has taken place but pushing for a long, long list of what needs keeping and crucially identified by the general public as Good Things.
I'm glad we've got Starmer to push the Labour view.
And most of all, repeatedly punch the £350m extra for the NHS bruise whenever Hoey, Stuart and Mann complain in public.
That's a step in the right direction. At least he hasn't appeared to distance himself by simply ignoring it - which is what I consider he usually does.
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
A very pointed comment - salt in the wound.The president of the European commission Jean-Claude Juncker will speak to Theresa May by phone on Friday, at her request, his spokesman told reporters in Brussels. (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I see that some are trying to get the "snap election" ball rolling again after this judgement. I'm still not sure how it would be s simple to achieve that, personally.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Labour just needs to play a straight bat on this. They have decided their approach, they have two capable politicians overseeing it and I hope they will keep their nerve.
My feeling is that May will be unable to bring a proposal to the House that Labour can support. Of course people will scream about Labour ignoring the will of the people etc etc, but Labour just has to keep saying that that they can only support a Brexit that works for ordinary folk, not a "Tory Brexit" for the wealthy.
If they can do this, stay calm and have broad support from the party (!) the pressure will all be on May and the Brexiteers.
Fingers crossed.
My feeling is that May will be unable to bring a proposal to the House that Labour can support. Of course people will scream about Labour ignoring the will of the people etc etc, but Labour just has to keep saying that that they can only support a Brexit that works for ordinary folk, not a "Tory Brexit" for the wealthy.
If they can do this, stay calm and have broad support from the party (!) the pressure will all be on May and the Brexiteers.
Fingers crossed.
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Political journalists seem to missing the whole 'snap election' speculation stuff. I guess they're so used to responding to these types of situations with a 'snap election' story that they simply can't turn it off now 'snap elections' are no more. Because although there are undoubtedly ways to get around or repeal the Parliaments Act, I can see no way it could possibly be done quickly enough for any ensuing election to be described as being 'snappy'!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Technically parliament decided the referendum would be advisory, so he's basically wrong, although in spirit I suspect a lot of people would agree. I think the counter argument must be that because parliament decided to hold the referendum, it's for parliament to act upon the result.Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and prominent leave campaigner, says he thinks most MPs would vote to invoke article 50. But he says that he does not think the courts have the right to tell the government what to do. Parliament has already decided that the decision about leaving the EU should be taken by the people in the referendum, he says.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
From the G live blog:
Here is Caroline Lucas, the Green party’s co-leader, on the court judgement.
"We welcome this ruling which shows that ministers do not have the power to trigger article 50 without consulting parliament.
Parliament must have the opportunity to debate and vote on triggering Article 50, rather than a group of ministers at the top table having total control over this country’s future place in the world.
The Green party will continue to fight to protect free movement, workers’ rights and the vital environmental protections we currently have as part of the EU".
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
It is inescapably true that a popular argument with pro-Brexiteers was "restoring parliamentary sovereignty" or "letting our MPs make our own laws".
I think that maybe a few in the government are still spooked by the idea MPs might try to block Brexit totally. Rightly or wrongly, that is not a realistic proposition IMO.
I think that maybe a few in the government are still spooked by the idea MPs might try to block Brexit totally. Rightly or wrongly, that is not a realistic proposition IMO.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Yes - keep supporting the basic outcome of the referendum and just let the whole thing implode (hopefully) by itself. It will be a terrible shame and all that, but . . .PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Labour just needs to play a straight bat on this. They have decided their approach, they have two capable politicians overseeing it and I hope they will keep their nerve.
My feeling is that May will be unable to bring a proposal to the House that Labour can support. Of course people will scream about Labour ignoring the will of the people etc etc, but Labour just has to keep saying that that they can only support a Brexit that works for ordinary folk, not a "Tory Brexit" for the wealthy.
If they can do this, stay calm and have broad support from the party (!) the pressure will all be on May and the Brexiteers.
Fingers crossed.
Edited to add -
Although there's still the pro-"Out" Labour MPs to be taken into account which will, no doubt, throw up problems (from a "Remain" perspective).
We'd be better off with Ed Miliband still as leader to steer us through - given the misgivings many still have regarding Jeremy Corbyn's feelings re the EU.
Last edited by PorFavor on Thu 03 Nov, 2016 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
David Davies MPVerified account
@DavidTCDavies
Unelected judges calling the shots. This is precisely why we voted out. Power to the people!
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
Owen Smith ✔ @OwenSmith_MP
Labour should amend Article 50 Bill to give the British people the final say on real terms of Brexit. Or I will seek that from backbenches.
11:39 AM - 3 Nov 2016
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
(Changing the bold emphasis from the last sentence to the one before)Willow904 wrote:Technically parliament decided the referendum would be advisory, so he's basically wrong, although in spirit I suspect a lot of people would agree. I think the counter argument must be that because parliament decided to hold the referendum, it's for parliament to act upon the result.Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and prominent leave campaigner, says he thinks most MPs would vote to invoke article 50. But he says that he does not think the courts have the right to tell the government what to do. Parliament has already decided that the decision about leaving the EU should be taken by the people in the referendum, he says.
IDS has been an MP for years, has been a party leader, a shadow minister, a minster and is a member of the privy council. It is, in another small and sad little way, despicable that this odious man can talk such obvious and blatant nonsense just to play a stupid populist card.
Or perhaps he just doesn't believe in the British constitution - because wherever it is it is clearly about balances of power between executive, legislature, judiciary and the people.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
He is a serial idiot.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
David Davies MPVerified account
@DavidTCDavies
Unelected judges calling the shots. This is precisely why we voted out. Power to the people!
Lest we forget...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Thursday 3rd November 2016
I obviously missed that argument during the referendum campaign. I thought that it was fine so long as they were British judges. How times change.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
David Davies MPVerified account
@DavidTCDavies
Unelected judges calling the shots. This is precisely why we voted out. Power to the people!