Friday 4th November 2016

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:48 pm

StephenDolan wrote:12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread,
12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread
And if one Tory leaves, May shakes her head and there'll be an 11 Tory lead, hanging by a thread.
11 Tory lead,...

I like that a lot.

Thank you for your clarification up the thread. I've misunderstood the posts.

I don't want Brexit. I never have. I'll accept what I must. I've not been comfortable in my mind about the EU referendum and result.
I don't know what is best to do at this time. I'm totally unqualified to advise.

I'll say this, for UK citizens to lose freedom of movement is nothing but horrifying. It's not right. The wealthy have always gone
where they will and that'll continue. It'll be regular UK people losing their EU citizenship and freedom of movement. I can't get
my mind around that.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:51 pm

StephenDolan wrote:12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread,
12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread
And if one Tory leaves, May shakes her head and there'll be an 11 Tory lead, hanging by a thread.
11 Tory lead,...

Point of order in pedantry corner: their majority is reduced by 2 for each MP they lose, not 1.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:55 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread,
12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread
And if one Tory leaves, May shakes her head and there'll be an 11 Tory lead, hanging by a thread.
11 Tory lead,...
Point of order in pedantry corner: their majority is reduced by 2 for each MP they lose, not 1.

Point of information, surely? (My pedant's corner is bigger than yours.)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:57 pm

If the right wing press carries on in its present mode, it is not just possible but likely there will be another political murder attempt before too long.

In that eventuality, is it too much to hope that certain "liberal" journalists in particular will this time put the blame where it actually belongs - rather than claim (as far too many did after the Cox killing, they helped that way to "depoliticise" it just as much as the pro-Brexit tabloids) that it was all caused by a few people being rude to MPs on social media?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:58 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?

No, not as long as someone wants better and works to make changes.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 1:00 pm

The (real) Enemies of the People:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 1:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread,
12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread
And if one Tory leaves, May shakes her head and there'll be an 11 Tory lead, hanging by a thread.
11 Tory lead,...
Point of order in pedantry corner: their majority is reduced by 2 for each MP they lose, not 1.

Point of information, surely? (My pedant's corner is bigger than yours.)

*blows raspberry*

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 1:12 pm

citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread,
12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread
And if one Tory leaves, May shakes her head and there'll be an 11 Tory lead, hanging by a thread.
11 Tory lead,...
I like that a lot.

Thank you for your clarification up the thread. I've misunderstood the posts.

I don't want Brexit. I never have. I'll accept what I must. I've not been comfortable in my mind about the EU referendum and result.
I don't know what is best to do at this time. I'm totally unqualified to advise.

I'll say this, for UK citizens to lose freedom of movement is nothing but horrifying. It's not right. The wealthy have always gone
where they will and that'll continue. It'll be regular UK people losing their EU citizenship and freedom of movement. I can't get
my mind around that.

Yes, wholeheartedly agree. Ditto 'uman rites.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 1:16 pm

Green Party stands down in Richmond Park by-election to avoid splitting anti-Tory vote
The party said there was a chance to 'seriously dent' the Tories' majority

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 97391.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 1:35 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Green Party stands down in Richmond Park by-election to avoid splitting anti-Tory vote
The party said there was a chance to 'seriously dent' the Tories' majority

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 97391.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rumours that this was effectively imposed on the local party by the leadership, even though they have no formal power to do such a thing.

There is reportedly some unhappiness and, indeed, a few resignations.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:00 pm

Glad to hear WATO squeezing in an anti Corbyn piece. Bravo BBC.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:01 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Solange LeBourg
‏@solange_lebourg
Just fancy that: Dyson wants his cake.
Dyson calls for guaranteed visas for foreign tech graduates https://www.ft.com/content/db681d4c-a1e ... b58d1d2193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @FT

Well....

He may kiss my a** for guaranteed workers
Self-aggrandising entitlement junkies bother me a lot

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Green Party stands down in Richmond Park by-election to avoid splitting anti-Tory vote
The party said there was a chance to 'seriously dent' the Tories' majority

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 97391.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rumours that this was effectively imposed on the local party by the leadership, even though they have no formal power to do such a thing.

There is reportedly some unhappiness and, indeed, a few resignations.

Really? everybody I know in Twickenham is fully behind the idea given we stand not a hope and the alternative is a UKIP/Tory supported racist. I lived there for 20 years so interested to see who is causing trouble.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:05 pm

Ukip leadership candidate Suzanne Evans has announced that she is seeking the party’s nomination for the Sleaford byelection. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Edited to add -

Oh, God. Will Nigel Farage now feel "obligated" to step in? Will that big bubble thing from "The Prisoner" strike again?

Edited again to insert space

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:23 pm

Asked about Phillips’ resignation during at a press conference in Berlin with his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier, [Boris]Johnson said:

The direction is very clear the will of the British people was expressed very clearly and it is the decision of Theresa May and her government to get on and make that process work. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Am I reading too much into it, or is this Boris Johnson subtly trying to distance himself from "Theresa May and her government"? It seems a strange way for a member of the aforementioned government to express himself.

Edited to add attribution

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:24 pm

High Court ruling on Article 50: statement
Prime Minister's Office, 10 Downing Street, Department for Exiting the European Union and Attorney General's Office
3 November 2016

A statement was issued following the High Court ruling...
A government spokesperson said:

"The government is disappointed by the Court’s judgment. The country voted to leave the European Union
in a referendum approved by Act of Parliament. And the government is determined to respect the result of
the referendum. We will appeal this judgment."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/high ... -statement

Why didn't your boy Dave go ahead and do the thing then? Why didn't you, T May? Who's stopped you? What's stopped you? Nothing but knowing it's a jackass piece of work from start to finish and it's got TORY all over it, nothing else. Current government over six years and counting. Utter failure.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:29 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Asked about Phillips’ resignation during at a press conference in Berlin with his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier, [Boris]Johnson said:

The direction is very clear the will of the British people was expressed very clearly and it is the decision of Theresa May and her government to get on and make that process work.
Am I reading too much into it, or is this Boris Johnson subtly trying to distance himself from "Theresa May and her government"? It seems a strange way for a member of the aforementioned government to express himself.

No, you've read and understood it fine. Johnson is every bit a member of T May's government. He may try distancing himself. It won't work. It hasn't worked. Look at all the statements coming from these people. Contradictions, accusations and all of it is Tory failure.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:34 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Asked about Phillips’ resignation during at a press conference in Berlin with his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier, [Boris]Johnson said:

The direction is very clear the will of the British people was expressed very clearly and it is the decision of Theresa May and her government to get on and make that process work.
Am I reading too much into it, or is this Boris Johnson subtly trying to distance himself from "Theresa May and her government"? It seems a strange way for a member of the aforementioned government to express himself.
No, you've read and understood it fine. Johnson is every bit a member of T May's government. He may try distancing himself. It won't work. It hasn't worked. Look at all the statements coming from these people. Contradictions, accusations and all of it is Tory failure.

Theresa May's leadership possibly hinges on the Supreme Court outcome. Boris Johnson may well be positioning himself to step into any vacancy. He probably can't believe his luck in how badly things are going for her.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:48 pm

"One reason Dyson said he supported Brexit was so that the UK can potentially bring in more engineers and scientists from outside
the EU. He is pressing the government for an “Australian-style visa system” under which engineers, scientists and university
students studying these topics will receive automatic visas. Dyson will hold talks with Theresa May and Liam Fox, the international trade
secretary, next week."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ard-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UK already 'brings in' workers from outside the EU. He supported Brexit in order to do something we don't need Brexit to do.
It already happens! He's apparently opening a school in Wiltshire for educating vacuum techs. I wonder how much that'll cost
students? Madness. The UK PM is making space in her schedule to accommodate him. A man who off-shored his company for
less expensive labour elsewhere.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:55 pm

http://newsthump.com/2016/11/04/people- ... -schedule/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

People on benefits receive award for outstanding contribution to Channel 5’s schedule

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 2:59 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 14h14 hours ago
Fair Oak & Horton Heath (Eastleigh) result:
LDEM: 46.0% (+6.8)
CON: 30.7% (+3.7)
UKIP: 15.9% (-6.5)
LAB: 7.3% (-4.1)

Is this a grim as it looks? (I don't know the area at all)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 3:11 pm

Paying the businessperson for education required benefiting the businessperson, the graduate spends the rest of their life paying their employer for the job. Replicating Malaysian working conditions in the UK. No freedom of movement, no choice.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 3:12 pm

It's after three o'clock in the afternoon, how many teas or coffees? Help yourselves to the biscuits.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 3:24 pm

And scones,term loosely applied,ingredients and method adhered to as to whether the term could reasonably be used to the results is very much open to interpretation.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 3:32 pm

I'm floundering - my heart is broken. Knowingly leading people who don't know better into certain trouble is wrong.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 3:54 pm

Asked about Phillips’ resignation during at a press conference in Berlin with his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier, [Boris]Johnson said:

The direction is very clear the will of the British people was expressed very clearly and it is the decision of Theresa May and her government to get on and make that process work. (Politics Live, Guardian)

So, that'd be at the iceberg, full steam ahead.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 3:59 pm

If you thought QT was bad last night, AQ tonight is worse. Ash down, Mann, Nicky Morgan and Laura Perrins of Conservative Woman infamy. My country's broken; can anyone fix it?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 4:18 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 14h14 hours ago
Fair Oak & Horton Heath (Eastleigh) result:
LDEM: 46.0% (+6.8)
CON: 30.7% (+3.7)
UKIP: 15.9% (-6.5)
LAB: 7.3% (-4.1)

Is this a grim as it looks? (I don't know the area at all)

You know it better than you think.

Eastleigh constituency was Chris Huhne's. Now whatever happened to him?

There was a notable by-election there in 2013 where a certain Diane James did quite well for UKIP. Now whatever happened to her?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 4:27 pm

Chris Ship ‏@chrisshipitv 2m2 minutes ago
Nick Clegg to @itvnews: @libdems will try to amend legislation before #Article50 so the UK has a NEW REFERENDUM on the final #Brexit deal

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 4:30 pm

Daniel Blake Retweeted
Far Right Watch ‏@Far_Right_Watch 7h7 hours ago
Police investigating 93 online death threats, of varying seriousness & validity, against #Article50 Judges. A lot from #Ukip members/voters.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 4:43 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Daniel Blake Retweeted
Far Right Watch ‏@Far_Right_Watch 7h7 hours ago
Police investigating 93 online death threats, of varying seriousness & validity, against #Article50 Judges. A lot from #Ukip members/voters.

It would make an interesting control experiment to see if, heaven forfend, the Government wins the appeal, a similar level of unhinged, hysterical and ignorant behaviour manifests itself in what is presently the "winning" side in this case.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 4:59 pm

Tory MPs talk until law to pay interns the minimum wage runs out of time - Mirror Online
https://apple.news/Az_1pMpVhTjaRKAntvy4Ibw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charmers

A law designed to pay interns the minimum wage has been shelved after two Tories gave speeches more than an hour long.
The bid ran out of time under obscure rules that mean there's no vote if a debate is still going at 2 .30pm.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:04 pm

Corbyn 'Could Win Next General Election' Due To Housing Crisis - Ex-Cameron Aide - The Huffington Post - UK
https://apple.news/AqAJKW4QkSSawQuzBjmvsHg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unelectable.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:07 pm

He [McDonnell] also pledged: “We will end insecurity for private renters by introducing rent controls, secure tenancies and a charter of private tenants’ rights, and increase access to affordable home ownership”

Anyone know anything more about this? Because it is long overdue whoever introduces it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:08 pm

M&S expected to announce closure of up to 30 stores

Outlets in towns and shopping centres likely to bear brunt of cuts as part of chief executive Steve Rowe’s turnaround plan

As well as the closures, some Marks & Spencer stores could be relocated or downsized, threatening thousands of jobs. (Guardian)

The final paragraph of the quote above is actually the very small-print text, below the photograph in the article. There is no mention of possible job losses in the main body of the text.

Make of that what you will.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... e-dozens-s

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:09 pm

US election 2016: Intelligence chiefs 'warn of Al-Qaeda terror attacks' day before polls - Evening Standard
https://apple.news/A38P8rXHPT8GVre2hfTi0BA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They really don't want Clinton to win, do they.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:20 pm

PorFavor wrote:
M&S expected to announce closure of up to 30 stores

Outlets in towns and shopping centres likely to bear brunt of cuts as part of chief executive Steve Rowe’s turnaround plan

As well as the closures, some Marks & Spencer stores could be relocated or downsized, threatening thousands of jobs. (Guardian)
The final paragraph of the quote above is actually the very small-print text, below the photograph in the article. There is no mention of possible job losses in the main body of the text.

Make of that what you will.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... e-dozens-s

"In towns and shopping centres"? Where else could they be?

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:24 pm

gilsey wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
M&S expected to announce closure of up to 30 stores

Outlets in towns and shopping centres likely to bear brunt of cuts as part of chief executive Steve Rowe’s turnaround plan

As well as the closures, some Marks & Spencer stores could be relocated or downsized, threatening thousands of jobs. (Guardian)
The final paragraph of the quote above is actually the very small-print text, below the photograph in the article. There is no mention of possible job losses in the main body of the text.

Make of that what you will.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... e-dozens-s
"In towns and shopping centres"? Where else could they be?

Out of town retail parks?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:26 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 98196.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit-backing curry industry says it feels ‘betrayed’ by Theresa May’s immigration clampdown
The number of licensed curry restaurants has declined by 13 per cent, with over 1,000 restaurants closing their doors for good in the last 18 months

Culturally diverse from day 1 (arrivals from both glacial refugia) and now a selfish shitehole.

Thanks a ####ing bunch oh Bullingdon wonderboys.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:28 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:
gilsey wrote:
PorFavor wrote: The final paragraph of the quote above is actually the very small-print text, below the photograph in the article. There is no mention of possible job losses in the main body of the text.

Make of that what you will.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... e-dozens-s
"In towns and shopping centres"? Where else could they be?
Out of town retail parks?

Aren't they shopping centres as well? They are to me anyway, but maybe that's what they mean.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:31 pm

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/hard-brexit ... BwlZ643jow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hard Brexit, Hard Landing?

This won't cheer anyone up.

Losses in Trade from Leaving the Single Market

Replacing membership in the single market with WTO rules trade with the EEA is associated with a reduction in trade with other EEA members of about 60%, both for goods and services (Table 1a). For services, there is no expected gain from standard FTAs, so even if the UK negotiates a free trade agreement with the EU, lost trade is expected to remain around 60%. The picture is somewhat less bleak for goods trade. FTAs are somewhat effective at generating goods trade, so losses from moving from single market membership to a free trade deal with the EU are smaller at around 40%.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:35 pm

gilsey wrote:
Hobiejoe wrote:
gilsey wrote: "In towns and shopping centres"? Where else could they be?
Out of town retail parks?
Aren't they shopping centres as well? They are to me anyway, but maybe that's what they mean.

I think a shopping centre is a collection of shops in one complex, like the Cabot Centre in Bristol, or Lakeside in Thurrock, whereas a retail park is a collection of stand alone 'big box' stores. I'd imagine the costs are a lot lower in the latter.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:35 pm

adam wrote:There is one strong argument why the A50 decision should go to the supreme court and not just be left to lie - the High Court in Northern Ireland has ruled (in this judgement from 28th October this year) that the particular circumstances in Norther Ireland did not mean that A50 had to be triggered through parliament but could be a matter for the perorgative. Given the different rulings in different areas of the country - devolved from UK-wide powers to some extent or another - it is right for the Supreme Court to decide.

We are still left with the absolute nonsense from the press arguing that British Justice is getting in the way of returning power to British Justice - and the press' responses to this is a very strong indicator of how things will be if we end up running a second public vote on the issue.

and indeed points to how powerful the press still is/are (?)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:39 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:People previously bellowing "take back control" complaining about people "taking back control" and people complaining that an earth worm has been murdered. Britain has officially jumped the shark. I want to leave.

I don't see how we get back from this. But am in Eeyore edition currently so perhaps I'm missing something.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:40 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?

see above. indeed. this is the problem. i guess we'll have to - er - take back control somehow.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:42 pm

"The charter would include a guarantee of three year contracts and protections against “unreasonable” rent hikes and unsafe living conditions."

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:42 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?
This should be the start of the fightback - if not now, then when??

Already there is a serious campaign to target advertisers in these hate sheets.

Yes - consumers have power. And if you can't boycott the press, then boycotting anyone who advertises in them would have quite some traction done properly. I keep looking for an organization that's doing this but remain bereft to date. Greenpeace only do envt, but they'd be ideal for this kind of thing.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:49 pm

Point of information - or is that query for information?

Which is more normally elected, a judge or a PM?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:49 pm

I really hope I never see David Cameron in the street.

(It's not that likely but you never know)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 5:53 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Tory MPs talk until law to pay interns the minimum wage runs out of time - Mirror Online
https://apple.news/Az_1pMpVhTjaRKAntvy4Ibw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charmers

A law designed to pay interns the minimum wage has been shelved after two Tories gave speeches more than an hour long.
The bid ran out of time under obscure rules that mean there's no vote if a debate is still going at 2 .30pm.

yeah - well you don't want oiks being able to do internships for crying out loud