Friday 4th November 2016

Post by **refitman** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 7:10 am

Morning all.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 7:29 am

Morning all.

I do like listening to Frances OGrady. Excellent on the cost of justice.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 8:01 am

Post by me on today's Daily Mail

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... le-of-law/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 8:35 am

I made the mistake of listening to half an hour of QT last night. DD allowed the right wing loons to drone on at length including one particularly ill-informed kipper in the audience but kept talking over the rest. I wish he'd take the retirement he should have taken twenty years ago and STFU.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 8:38 am

Good-morning, everyone.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 8:54 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Post by me on today's Daily Mail

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... le-of-law/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. It's really important we all pass this message on in our daily lives. I think people when they reflect for a moment realise that the judges are just doing their jobs.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 9:20 am

Report: x/y is at the lowest ever level and crisis looms

Government: Well, x is at it's highest ever level

Basic maths you arses. Repeat ad nauseum.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 9:22 am

A moderate right-winger perspective on the article 50 ruling:

http://nicktyrone.com/high-court-uphold ... eresa-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government were disappointed by the High Court ruling yesterday that stated parliament needs to be the one to trigger Article 50, not the government via Royal Prerogative. While May needs to make as big a show of disappointment about this in public as possible, in private she may be very glad about the decision the court has come to.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 9:27 am

GetYou wrote:Report: x/y is at the lowest ever level and crisis looms

Government: Well, x is at it's highest ever level

Basic maths you arses. Repeat ad nauseum.

Yes, be it schools, hospitals or anything else population size/age related, the short termism of the Tories is disgraceful.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 9:39 am

Glad to see that Burnham and Clegg are both pushing for the terms and conditions of Brexit to be extremely soft. The call by Smith for Labour to demand at this moment another referendum seems even more politically naive today.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 9:58 am

Good morfternoon.

Another Ukip leadership contender has pulled out of the race. London Assembly member Peter Whittle announced his withdraw and backing for the favourite Paul Nuttall, the party’s former deputy leader. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:01 am

StephenDolan wrote:Glad to see that Burnham and Clegg are both pushing for the terms and conditions of Brexit to be extremely soft. The call by Smith for Labour to demand at this moment another referendum seems even more politically naive today.

Only by some people fighting to remain in the EU, does Burnham and Clegg's soft Brexit position appear to be the centre ground. and this is vital because whatever happens it's important that everyone feels like they've won something, even if it's only a small victory.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:05 am

There is widespread alarm at how the press has covered the high court ruling.

LibDem leader Tim Farron commented:

There is an irony that the same newspapers that argued we would ‘take back control’ are now complaining that the British people will have their views represented through the British parliament.” (Politics Live, Guardian)

Irony? No. It's bloody terrifying.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:06 am

Willow904 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Glad to see that Burnham and Clegg are both pushing for the terms and conditions of Brexit to be extremely soft. The call by Smith for Labour to demand at this moment another referendum seems even more politically naive today.
Only by some people fighting to remain in the EU, does Burnham and Clegg's soft Brexit position appear to be the centre ground. and this is vital because whatever happens it's important that everyone feels like they've won something, even if it's only a small victory.

Kindly disagree. The Clegg, Burnham and indeed Labour position is to fragment what Brexit would mean so that it's no longer a binary choice.

Post by **adam** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:08 am

There is one strong argument why the A50 decision should go to the supreme court and not just be left to lie - the High Court in Northern Ireland has ruled (in this judgement from 28th October this year) that the particular circumstances in Norther Ireland did not mean that A50 had to be triggered through parliament but could be a matter for the perorgative. Given the different rulings in different areas of the country - devolved from UK-wide powers to some extent or another - it is right for the Supreme Court to decide.

We are still left with the absolute nonsense from the press arguing that British Justice is getting in the way of returning power to British Justice - and the press' responses to this is a very strong indicator of how things will be if we end up running a second public vote on the issue.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... ys-council" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pay-to-stay uncertainty leaves tenants too little time, says council

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:37 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 97021.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From today, every Italian will get €500 from the government on their 18th birthday to spend on books
It can also be used to buy theatre, cinema and museum tickets

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 10:56 am

StephenDolan wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Glad to see that Burnham and Clegg are both pushing for the terms and conditions of Brexit to be extremely soft. The call by Smith for Labour to demand at this moment another referendum seems even more politically naive today.
Only by some people fighting to remain in the EU, does Burnham and Clegg's soft Brexit position appear to be the centre ground. and this is vital because whatever happens it's important that everyone feels like they've won something, even if it's only a small victory.
Kindly disagree. The Clegg, Burnham and indeed Labour position is to fragment what Brexit would mean so that it's no longer a binary choice.

Haven't you both just said the same thing? I apologise if I've misunderstood your posts.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:17 am

citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Only by some people fighting to remain in the EU, does Burnham and Clegg's soft Brexit position appear to be the centre ground. and this is vital because whatever happens it's important that everyone feels like they've won something, even if it's only a small victory.
Kindly disagree. The Clegg, Burnham and indeed Labour position is to fragment what Brexit would mean so that it's no longer a binary choice.
Haven't you both just said the same thing? I apologise if I've misunderstood your posts.

I don't believe that Smith and others calling for a rerun of the referendum was a prerequisite of a softer than soft Brexit being the accepted least worse outcome.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:20 am

Stephen Phillips [Conservative] MP triggers byelection (Politics Live, Guardian)

He's an "Outer" but on the side of the court ruling (I think).

Post by **adam** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:23 am

PorFavor wrote:
Stephen Phillips [Conservative] MP triggers byelection (Politics Live, Guardian)
He's an "Outer" but on the side of the court ruling (I think).

2015 general election

Con 56%
Lab 17%
UKIP 15%
Lib Dem 5%
Lincolnshire Independence - 5% (edited to add)

Should be a straightforward thing, but could be a dangerous glimpse of things to come...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:25 am

Ah, yes, here you go -

Phillips said he was resigning because of “irreconcilable policy differences with the current government”.

Anushka Asthana @GuardianAnushka

Stephen Phillips - a lawyer/judge who voted out but believes parliament should be involved - stepping down!

(Politics Live, Guardian)

His constituency is Sleaford and North Hykeham, in Lincolnshire.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:30 am

PorFavor wrote:
Stephen Phillips [Conservative] MP triggers byelection (Politics Live, Guardian)
He's an "Outer" but on the side of the court ruling (I think).

56% in 2015, add one to the pseudoindietory total.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:35 am

He's actually properly resigning and not standing for re-election, by the looks of it?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:36 am

12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread,
12 Tory lead, hanging by a thread
And if one Tory leaves, May shakes her head and there'll be an 11 Tory lead, hanging by a thread.
11 Tory lead,...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:37 am

StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Stephen Phillips [Conservative] MP triggers byelection (Politics Live, Guardian)
He's an "Outer" but on the side of the court ruling (I think).
56% in 2015, add one to the pseudoindietory total.

Yes. I imagine his replacement won't be a boon. Especially in Lincolnshire. Unless the rumours that there are a lot of people who regret their "Out" vote are well-founded. Although, on past form (56%), they'd probably vote for Nigel Farage if he were wearing a blue rosette.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:39 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:He's actually properly resigning and not standing for re-election, by the looks of it?

BBC saying it's unclear.

Laura K must be gutted she couldn't get him to resign just before PMQs yesterday.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:41 am

So it's a very pro Brexit seat. Can we expect Farage to try, try, try again?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:47 am

I'm up in the i on yesterday's Art 50 case

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/government- ... eres-lost/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:48 am

People previously bellowing "take back control" complaining about people "taking back control" and people complaining that an earth worm has been murdered. Britain has officially jumped the shark. I want to leave.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:49 am

PorFavor wrote:
Stephen Phillips [Conservative] MP triggers byelection (Politics Live, Guardian)
He's an "Outer" but on the side of the court ruling (I think).

He's on the side of parliament taking back control, not the government behaving like a dictatorship. Fair play to the man despite his views on most things being diametrically opposed to my own.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:52 am

SpinningHugo wrote:I'm up in the i on yesterday's Art 50 case

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/government- ... eres-lost/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's speculation that the judgement here could well help the Northern Ireland appeal. Thoughts?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:56 am

I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 11:58 am

Labour is calling on justice secretary Liz Truss to condemn “hysterical” attacks on the judiciary in the press.

Labour shadow justice minister Richard Burgon said headlines in some of today’s papers were unacceptable and urged Truss to uphold the independence of the judiciary. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Good, good, good!

And I think Theresa May should have said something on the subject by now.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:09 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?

This should be the start of the fightback - if not now, then when??

Already there is a serious campaign to target advertisers in these hate sheets.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:13 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?
This should be the start of the fightback - if not now, then when??

Already there is a serious campaign to target advertisers in these hate sheets.

Do you have a link? Wouldn't mind knowing who to boycott

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:13 pm

There’s been a sharp spike in traffic to an article Stephen Phillips wrote for the Guardian last month.

It explains why he has “irreconcilable policy differences with the current government”.

The campaign to give parliament the right to determine our future relationship with the EU is not about reversing the referendum result. Nor is it about subverting the will of the British people, or having a second bite of the cherry. It’s about the sovereignty that I and others cherish, a sovereignty that resides principally in the House of Commons and in its ability, when given the opportunity, to inform and direct the government of the day.

Not giving parliament the chance, before article 50 is invoked, to say where it thinks these negotiations should end up is, at its core, undemocratic, unconstitutional and likely to exacerbate the divisions in our society to which the referendum gave rise. It also ignores the views of nearly half the people who voted in the referendum, who were perfectly content with our place in the EU.

Ignoring them, even though they were (just) in the minority, is not merely divisive but plain wrong.
(Politics Live, Guardian)

Edited to add a "T"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:15 pm

Womble44 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:I think today is a glowing example of why the British 'Free' Press is in dire need of being torn down and reformed. It'll never happen under the Tories, it's unlikely to happen under Labour with anyone from the right of the party in place as leader, Miliband would have had a stab at it but would have been betrayed by the right of the party at every step of the way and would have compromised. Corbyn would be all but certain to try it, but would be more than happy to completely ignore - rather than acquiesce to - the right of the party as they bleated, but would probably fail for that reason.

We're doomed to have a completely shit media in this country that is totally unfit for its purpose, aren't we?
This should be the start of the fightback - if not now, then when??

Already there is a serious campaign to target advertisers in these hate sheets.
Do you have a link? Wouldn't mind knowing who to boycott

Its the "StopFundingHate" campaign, easily located on both Facebook and Twitter.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:22 pm

Brexit, Parliament and the prerogative

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the House of Commons Library

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:22 pm

Good morning.

Following up a post from last night... he just won't or can't see what the issue is.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I personally think, in spite of some stiff competition, this (and the subsequent headbangingly ridiculous thread, in which - yes - he compares the Mail headline to an article by Vera Baird contesting the Ched Evans verdict) this might be the most moronic thing I've seen him write.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:25 pm

Solange LeBourg
‏@solange_lebourg
Just fancy that: Dyson wants his cake.
Dyson calls for guaranteed visas for foreign tech graduates https://www.ft.com/content/db681d4c-a1e ... b58d1d2193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @FT

Well....

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:26 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Good morning.

Following up a post from last night... he just won't or can't see what the issue is.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I personally think, in spite of some stiff competition, this (and the subsequent headbangingly ridiculous thread, in which - yes - he compares the Mail headline to an article by Vera Baird contesting the Ched Evans verdict) this might be the most moronic thing I've seen him write.

Has he really forgotten about Jo Cox already? Or did he, like all too many of that ilk, just use that tragedy as another way of bashing Corbyn and his supporters??

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:33 pm

Been listening to some phone-in stuff on the radio this morning. This country is full of racist f***wits.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:33 pm

#StopFundingHate

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&ver ... e&src=tyah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:34 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Good morning.

Following up a post from last night... he just won't or can't see what the issue is.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I personally think, in spite of some stiff competition, this (and the subsequent headbangingly ridiculous thread, in which - yes - he compares the Mail headline to an article by Vera Baird contesting the Ched Evans verdict) this might be the most moronic thing I've seen him write.

I get the impression Hodges just disagrees with things to be contrarian.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:35 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:#StopFundingHate

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&ver ... e&src=tyah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Main page

https://twitter.com/StopFundingHate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:37 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Been listening to some phone-in stuff on the radio this morning. This country is full of racist f***wits.

I can't bear to watch/listen to anything where the public get their say on current affairs anymore.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:37 pm

Womble44 wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Good morning.

Following up a post from last night... he just won't or can't see what the issue is.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I personally think, in spite of some stiff competition, this (and the subsequent headbangingly ridiculous thread, in which - yes - he compares the Mail headline to an article by Vera Baird contesting the Ched Evans verdict) this might be the most moronic thing I've seen him write.
I get the impression Hodges just disagrees with things to be contrarian.

He's a click bait merchant.

Speaking of which:

Since you’re here, we have a small favour to ask. More people are reading the Guardian than ever – but far fewer are paying for it, and advertising revenues are falling fast. So you can see why we need to ask for your help. The Guardian’s journalism takes a lot of time, money and hard work to produce. But we do it because we believe that independent reporting and plurality of voices matter. If everyone who reads our reporting helps to pay for it, our future would be much more secure. Get closer to our journalism and be part of our story by becoming a Supporter. Or, alternatively, make a one-time contribution. - Guardian HQ.

Erm... no.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:43 pm

Suzanne Evans on the Daily Politics (BBC2 TV) calling for the sacking of judges. Andrew Neil appears visibly disturbed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:45 pm

Breakfast clubs work their magic in disadvantaged English schools

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;