Wednesday 9th November 2016

Post by **refitman** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:12 am

Morning all.

Sorry if I cut anyone off at the knees there.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:15 am

refitman wrote:Morning all.

Sorry if I cut anyone off at the knees there.

I don't think you are, you know.

Anyway, my post about John Podesta's announcement is better covered over at the Guardian live-blog.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:18 am

Morfternoon.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:19 am

"Widespread voter fraud. Machines changing votes. I won't concede."
In some ways, it'd be logical [edit: not the right word but can't think of the one I'm needing here] for Clinton's camp to come out with this.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:24 am

EU citizenship proposal could guarantee rights in Europe after Brexit - the guardian
https://apple.news/ArBYhoiElT72xd0UmvWrs9w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't see this gaining any traction - it'd increase the incentive for other populists in countries to argue for leaving the EU, "look we can leave as a country but those who want to stay a part of the EUSSR, can!"

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:28 am

Who is in more economic trouble? America with Trump or Britain with Brexit? - The Independent
https://apple.news/ApA-PjaMjTgSoXgVaIhbJvw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmm. America's economy and society is about to flush itself down the toilet. If only we were still part of a supranational, democratic organisation that could position itself to take up the slack and become the dominant global force to replace the US...

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:29 am

I need Hugo to tell me why this is all Corbyn's fault. Simon Scharma was good on toady just before 7:00.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:36 am

frightful_oik wrote:I need Hugo to tell me why this is all Corbyn's fault. Simon Scharma was good on toady just before 7:00.

What did he say? Scharma that is

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:37 am

I suppose we'll be hearing ''it's the will of the people'' ad infinitum in the States just like here.

How depressing.

I think Simon Schama's right in his assessment. Racism and hatred of women.

It'll be interesting to see how the statistics stack up.
How many creeps with lax sexual manners/criminal intent like Assange will be grinning that 'p**** grabbing' is now acceptable ? He'll be booking his ticket back to the US.

Woman in the White House ? Only if she's a wife, a maid, an aide or an intern pleasuring the male President.

Sorry. Hard to feel reasonable on a morning when Assange, Putin, Farage, the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis are celebrating.

edited to put asterisks in in case one of the words is triggering Adam's 'decency filter' at work.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:39 am

StephenDolan wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:I need Hugo to tell me why this is all Corbyn's fault. Simon Scharma was good on toady just before 7:00.
What did he say? Scharma that is

Democracies can elect fascists, KKK happy, rise in anti-semitism etc

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:39 am

Hearing on the BBC news that Hillary Clinton has 'phoned the Donald Trump camp to concede.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:40 am

Clinton concedes

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:40 am

I still maintain that Trump will be more of an embarrassment than anything

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:43 am

Stephen-

He told it how it is. That it's a disaster. That there are many forms of fascism. That it is terrifying that Trump says he will jail his political opponents. That he won't suddenly morph into a statesman or a man of reason.

Also made the point that Trump will have more power than president since ....? sorry, can't remember who/when, because of the Republicans doing well in their houses of government. That is terrifying.

He also says the press/media should not normalise the result.

https://twitter.com/simon_schama" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:43 am

From 538.

“NATE SILVER 2:02 AM
One thing I’ve been thinking about here is where the Democratic Party goes next. Three of the last four Congressional elections (2010, 2014 and 2016) were bad for the Democrats, leading to a thin bench. President Obama served out his two terms. The Clinton dynasty is over. But the most obvious alternatives to Clinton — Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden — are also pretty old. It seems that all of the energy in the party is on the left, and it wouldn’t be surprising if the 2020 nominee were someone from the Sanders wing of the party. But who is that candidate? I don’t know. There are a lot of opportunities for talented, up-and-coming, left-wing politicians, beginning with the 2018 midterms.“

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:44 am

Hillary's conceded.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:44 am

Ronald Reagan was embarrassing and look how much harm he did.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:44 am

Michele Obama.

[Edit: in reply to Stephen]

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:46 am

Womble44 wrote:I still maintain that Trump will be more of an embarrassment than anything

I can't see him being able to do any\many of the things he's been going on about but I think he'll continue to stir up ugliness. Whether just because of what he says or because he can't deliver on what he said he would. Or a combination of both. I think there'll be a lot of trouble, one way or another.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:46 am

Hope the US Democrats aren't just going to roll over to the 'will of the people'.
Sometimes you have to say when something is wrong and break political taboos.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:49 am

Trump about to speak ? Pass the sick bags.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:50 am

frightful_oik wrote:Ronald Reagan was embarrassing and look how much harm he did.

True. I guess my gut instinct is that since he doesn't appear to have a coherent and consistent ideological agenda, I don't think he's as dangerous as some are saying. Not to Godwin too early, but Hitler knew what he wanted and could articulate it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:50 am

Schama is also concerned about a rise in anti-semitism under Trump's regime.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:51 am

Now he wants to 'heal the wounds'. Unbelievable.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:52 am

I'm not saying the rhetoric and views that he is normalising are ok, btw

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:55 am

Burying the bad news pt.1:

Great Western line electrification 'deferred' amid cost overruns
Rail minister admits there have been ‘difficulties’ with modernising branch lines on routes to Oxford and Bristol
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... rd-bristol" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:58 am

Burying the bad news pt.2 (the announcement is a tacit admission that they've done bugger all to stop flooding):

Theresa May puts 1,200 soldiers on standby to tackle winter floods - the guardian
https://apple.news/Al1xW0NoHS8-d6TMU4fGuUg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 7:59 am

Remember also, that he is openly disliked among many Republicans, so he won't be able to get his proposals through as easily as other Republicans might have.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:02 am

You're forgetting that the Republicans are cowards. Trump would never be where he is now if they weren't.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:03 am

Wow. Trump's really embarrassing. Remember the fantastic speech Obama made the night he won.
Creepy.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:03 am

Prince Harry’s plea to newspaper editors has slim chance of success - the guardian
https://apple.news/AS94C1j1xQIudFV3_8imVZQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:04 am

YAY, FASCISM!

Morning. As I have always maintained, the media is the midwife to this utter fucking shitshow. This is brilliant (and certainly better than the last link I posted).

https://newrepublic.com/article/138502/ ... ican-media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:05 am

Yeah I guess, maybe I'm overly optimistic but I don't really understand why people outside of the US are worried about it (with the exception of Mexico).

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:06 am

Womble44 wrote:Yeah I guess, maybe I'm overly optimistic but I don't really understand why people outside of the US are worried about it (with the exception of Mexico).

I have to say I find this comment off the scale bewildering.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:06 am

It staggered me too.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:13 am

What,specifically, are you worried about? The Obama administration caused plenty of death overseas, what has Trump said that makes you think he will make it worse?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:14 am

Shama's not impressed with Jill Stein's voters.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:15 am

The upper tiers of the military won't just endanger the US or its allies because the clown in charge says something stupid

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:17 am

Womble44 wrote:What,specifically, are you worried about? The Obama administration caused plenty of death overseas, what has Trump said that makes you think he will make it worse?

I'm worried about the economic situation. This, plus our own insanity with the EU, Japa's economy sliding, China's fantasy figures becoming to difficult to mask, etc could trigger a lot of woe globally.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:18 am

I think it's bad for the US, no question. Just not personally worried. To be honest I found the determination we seemed to have to get into conflict with Russia scarier and if he really is buddies with Putin then maybe that will be less likely to happen.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:18 am

CitizenJA@

Hope you are ok. You must be feeling down about how your country of birth voted.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:18 am

Plus, this is seriously bad news for the work that must start right now to mitigate what's coming with global warming.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:19 am

Supreme Court Bedroom tax decision at 09.45

https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:19 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:
Womble44 wrote:What,specifically, are you worried about? The Obama administration caused plenty of death overseas, what has Trump said that makes you think he will make it worse?
I'm worried about the economic situation. This, plus our own insanity with the EU, Japa's economy sliding, China's fantasy figures becoming to difficult to mask, etc could trigger a lot of woe globally.

I worry about those too, but I don't see how Trump specifically makes it worse.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:20 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:Plus, this is seriously bad news for the work that must start right now to mitigate what's coming with global warming.

Now that I agree with.

Womble44 · Post by **Womble44** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:22 am

My phone keeps autocorrecting Trump to 'a Trump' have to keep editing my posts

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:22 am

Well, let's look on the bright side.

Nigel Farage might get the Trump job he wants and leave us in peace, and the Ecuadorean Embassy will get its spare room back.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:24 am

Trump, Brexit, Corbyn - Dont let anyone tell you they know who is or isnt electable - amyone who does knows nothing. Anyone remember my prediction last year? Anyone going to say Corbyn is unelectable?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:24 am

Womble44 wrote:I worry about those too, but I don't see how Trump specifically makes it worse.

I'm going to assume that Trump won't get do even 80% of what he has said he'll do, but if the markets perceive that he'll start doing it, they're going to tank. The kind of economic warfare with the rest of the world that Trump is promising doesn't go down well.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 09 Nov, 2016 8:27 am

The Simpson's called it years ago.