Friday, 11th November 2016

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 12:58 pm

Afternoon folks,
A few years ago, I saw Leonard Cohen perform at Weybridge. Despite it pissing down all night (it was outdoors), it was fantastic. At the end of the gig, we hurried off to get the first bus back to the hotel and bought a pint in the bar. I was about to sit down, when in walked Leonard. I shook his hand and thanked him for the performance. He replied, "I'm pleased to have brought pleasure to so many people, and humbled by the resilience you all showed in such horrible weather".

A gent.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 12:59 pm

Ren-tool still remains a starry-eyed admirer of "heir to Blair" Cameron, despite absolutely everything

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:00 pm

HindleA wrote:Jonny found this-

https://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/verdal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. I thought as much but also got some of the details wrong. Hadn't realised she was separated at the time. So, it was more that she wanted it to remain platonic rather than he not wanting to betray a friend.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:03 pm

Willow904 wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Today's prize for most truly idiotic opinion article goes too... can you guess?

No, David Cameron’s EU referendum wasn’t a mistake – and Brexit didn't come from a campaign of lies either - The Independent
https://apple.news/AJOFmeQgWQPqvFX3mftnrAg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As it turned out, he had a choice between cutting his throat and slitting his wrist: he could lose the election in 2015 and be thrown out of office or he could lose the referendum a year later and be thrown out of office.
Presumably setting the referendum date for 2019 and enjoying a third term in office never occurred to him. Or this writer either.

I find that particular part of the article the most insulting to our intelligence. His choice was between cutting his own throat and cutting ours. He opted to cut ours. Once a coward, always a coward.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:07 pm

New homes target to be missed despite minister's £18m as figures show housing crisis getting worse - The Independent
https://apple.news/AK5xRul2TRLSD3fsCH1u-Pg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is going to be a momentous occasion when, if ever, the Tories actually manage to hit a single one of their self-professed targets.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:09 pm

Idle thought: has there ever been another government that has overpromised and underdelivered so very much?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:26 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Idle thought: has there ever been another government that has overpromised and underdelivered so very much?

This list of new laws due to come in in 2016 compiled by the Independent back in January gives a flavour of the stunning paucity of achievement of our current Tory majority of government:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 73156.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Completely eclipsed by the things they have postponed and cancelled, the most disgraceful of which being the reforms to elderly social care funding.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:26 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 11116.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gay man attacked after Donald Trump supporters 'hurl homophobic slurs' on US election night
‘We got a new President you f***ing f****ts,' men reportedly yelled

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 1:47 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/yvette- ... 49232.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nine Broken Promises From the First 100 Days of This Conservative Government

Which reminds me rather of the following from Charles Dickens' Little Dorrit. How little things change.

It is true that every new premier and every new government, coming in because they had upheld a certain thing as necessary to be done, were no sooner come in than they applied their utmost faculties to discovering How not to do it. It is true that from the moment when a general election was over, every returned man who had been raving on hustings because it hadn't been done, and who had been asking the friends of the honourable gentleman in the opposite interest on pain of impeachment to tell him why it hadn't been done, and who had been asserting that it must be done, and who had been pledging himself that it should be done, began to devise, How it was not to be done.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 2:14 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 10756.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Donald Trump could be impeached within weeks, according to at least one legal professor.

There is a strong case for the beginning of legal proceedings that would stop Donald Trump from being president, says law professor Christopher Peterson.

I wouldn't entirely dismiss this as a possibility, I have to say. I heard a Trump supporter on the radio before the election semi-defending him against the allegations of sexual assault by suggesting it wasn't a worry because if he did anything like that when President they'd just impeach him. It almost sounded like a strategy, although it could just as easily have been desperation.

Post by **adam** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 2:23 pm

Willow904 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 10756.html

Donald Trump could be impeached within weeks, according to at least one legal professor.

There is a strong case for the beginning of legal proceedings that would stop Donald Trump from being president, says law professor Christopher Peterson.
I wouldn't entirely dismiss this as a possibility, I have to say. I heard a Trump supporter on the radio before the election semi-defending him against the allegations of sexual assault by suggesting it wasn't a worry because if he did anything like that when President they'd just impeach him. It almost sounded like a strategy, although it could just as easily have been desperation.

Not a chance. The house vote to impeach on a simple majority and the Republicans are very good at exercising power and have a comfortable majority. Unless the Republicans break in two there is no chance at all of this - and given that they survived the campaign I don't believe it's possible that they will fall apart now.

They spent billions and ran through years of time to finally find a way to impeach Clinton. They ignored Iran/Contra and didn't even investigate Reagan (edited to add - and that was a strong Democrat congress). They are partisan to the core.

Edit - apostroph'e sorry.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 2:38 pm

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... ctive.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Really depressing reading. Sorry.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 2:42 pm

....and it doesn't get any better:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/70 ... al-9237399" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Virgin handed contract to run 200 NHS services as Tories sell off more of our health service

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 2:48 pm

Virgin ? At least if it were a non-shareholder business like BUPA with a history of health care there might be some shred of comfort.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 3:13 pm

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 8m8 minutes ago
Corbyn spokesman says application for readmission by P Taaffe & 75 expelled. Militant members is a matter for the National Executive not him

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:00 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00l9j6s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w009s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BBC 4 programmes on Leonard Cohen,tonight.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:28 pm

letter from UK Stats Authority re yesterday's tweet.

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/ ... education/

The Authority has concluded that the tweet was not a fair representation of the underlying statistics4 and we are disappointed that the Department published it in this form. I was pleased therefore to see that your press office has now withdrawn this tweet, and did so quickly once the issue was identified.

and

I understand that in this case the statistical team was not consulted before the message was tweeted, which was unfortunate. I would therefore like to ask for an update from you on how you will avoid the recurrence of such misleading communications

Excellent.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:37 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:letter from UK Stats Authority re yesterday's tweet.

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/ ... education/

The Authority has concluded that the tweet was not a fair representation of the underlying statistics4 and we are disappointed that the Department published it in this form. I was pleased therefore to see that your press office has now withdrawn this tweet, and did so quickly once the issue was identified.

and

I understand that in this case the statistical team was not consulted before the message was tweeted, which was unfortunate. I would therefore like to ask for an update from you on how you will avoid the recurrence of such misleading communications
Excellent.

Perhaps by requiring all of the departments stats to be published requiring prior sign off by the UK statistics authority for a certain period?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:39 pm

Article 50 notice could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

Lawyers consider potential change of tack for supreme court challenge to ruling that MPs must vote to trigger EU exit

Government lawyers are exploring the possibility of arguing in the supreme court that the article 50 process could be reversed by parliament at any time before the UK completes its exit from the European Union.

If the government argued that MPs could vote to revoke the article 50 notice during the exit negotiation period, some academics say, the outcome of the government’s appeal to the supreme court would be different [ie the Government would win the appeal], because it would imply that the sovereignty of parliament had not been removed. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -may-argue

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:42 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Article 50 notice could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

Lawyers consider potential change of tack for supreme court challenge to ruling that MPs must vote to trigger EU exit

Government lawyers are exploring the possibility of arguing in the supreme court that the article 50 process could be reversed by parliament at any time before the UK completes its exit from the European Union.

If the government argued that MPs could vote to revoke the article 50 notice during the exit negotiation period, some academics say, the outcome of the government’s appeal to the supreme court would be different [ie the Government would win the appeal], because it would imply that the sovereignty of parliament had not been removed. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -may-argue

That contradicts the evidence given by the government in the previous court case? How does that work exactly?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:52 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Article 50 notice could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

Lawyers consider potential change of tack for supreme court challenge to ruling that MPs must vote to trigger EU exit

Government lawyers are exploring the possibility of arguing in the supreme court that the article 50 process could be reversed by parliament at any time before the UK completes its exit from the European Union.

If the government argued that MPs could vote to revoke the article 50 notice during the exit negotiation period, some academics say, the outcome of the government’s appeal to the supreme court would be different [ie the Government would win the appeal], because it would imply that the sovereignty of parliament had not been removed. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -may-argue
That contradicts the evidence given by the government in the previous court case? How does that work exactly?

I don't know. I'm not very well up on legal ins and outs but I always assumed that if you appealed a decision you couldn't do so by virtue of presenting a completely different case to the one which you lost - unless new evidence has turned up. This doesn't strike me as new. Just sloppy.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:53 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Article 50 notice could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

Lawyers consider potential change of tack for supreme court challenge to ruling that MPs must vote to trigger EU exit

Government lawyers are exploring the possibility of arguing in the supreme court that the article 50 process could be reversed by parliament at any time before the UK completes its exit from the European Union.

If the government argued that MPs could vote to revoke the article 50 notice during the exit negotiation period, some academics say, the outcome of the government’s appeal to the supreme court would be different [ie the Government would win the appeal], because it would imply that the sovereignty of parliament had not been removed. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -may-argue

Sharp intake of breath by Leave supporters!

Can't see that going down too well.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 4:56 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Article 50 notice could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

Lawyers consider potential change of tack for supreme court challenge to ruling that MPs must vote to trigger EU exit

Government lawyers are exploring the possibility of arguing in the supreme court that the article 50 process could be reversed by parliament at any time before the UK completes its exit from the European Union.

If the government argued that MPs could vote to revoke the article 50 notice during the exit negotiation period, some academics say, the outcome of the government’s appeal to the supreme court would be different [ie the Government would win the appeal], because it would imply that the sovereignty of parliament had not been removed. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -may-argue

Sharp intake of breath by Leave supporters!

Can't see that going down too well.

Yes - it's a variation on "it's only advisory".

Edited to add -

If the Government won, it would be a bit of a pyrrhic victory. They'd potentially be in the same position as they are in now. Worse, possibly. (That is, unless they've gone off the whole idea but would like someone else to take the responsibility.)

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 5:15 pm

Donald Trump presidency a 'disaster for the planet', warn climate scientists - the guardian
https://apple.news/AF9z5gjk-QmuxSAu447LrUA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, the Trumpian assault on science has already begun. There will be a glut of very talented, very clever people looking for new jobs soon. They should come to a country with a bright future, that is willing to invest in their expertise, and support them and their colleagues across the globe. So not here then. Hi Germany, you're about to benefit big time from our self-inflicted wound.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:13 pm

RIP Robert Vaughn.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:15 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... 8d11a520df" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gary Lineker Says He Is Talking To Walkers Crisps About Advertising In The Sun

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:20 pm

HindleA wrote:RIP Robert Vaughn.

Loved The Man From Uncle when i was growing up. Pretty sure I had a Man from Uncle gun and badge too...

[youtube]CjmOkqU6Roo[/youtube]

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:27 pm

My little brother nagged my mum for an Illya Kuryakin haircut.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Eltham North (Greenwich) result:
CON: 42.2% (+10.6)
LAB: 40.4% (+9.3)
LDEM: 8.8% (+5.5)
UKIP: 5.1% (-14.5)
GRN: 3.5% (-6.0)

A large number of stories in that result (a Tory gain from Labour).

1. Labour is doing (much) better in London than elsewhere.

2. The Ukip collapse is benefiting the Tories, who could be returning to their 80s heyday in terms of vote share.

3. the LD revival is small, but there
That ward elected three Tories in 2002, 2006 and 2010 - in all cases by comfortable margins. It is somewhere Labour profited from the UKIP surge.

There was a significant swing to Labour in a Wandsworth contest yesterday - in another ward that had split between the Tories and Labour two years ago.

The difference between the two places becomes evident if you look at this year's Mayoral results - Khan winning Queenstown, Goldsmith Eltham North (and neither were that close)

of course all this is true, which is why looking at the *overall* trend since 2015 is so important.

How is that going I wonder...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:34 pm

http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hm-revenue ... ct-1645941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HMRC and Concentrix end tax credits contract

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:39 pm

Not sure what's going on in Cardiff. It would be useful if the Western Mail actually gave some background to it.

Three Labour councillors deselected and ten to stand down next year.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... d-12163916" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:40 pm

HindleA wrote:RIP Robert Vaughn.

He was quite left-wing (by US standards), wasn't he?

Often played quite right-wing type characters, oddly enough.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:45 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15579361" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaughn's acting career never reached the heights achieved by some of his contemporaries, possibly because he devoted time to his political activities.
But he had no regrets. "With a modest amount of looks and talent and more than a modicum of serendipity," he wrote, "I've managed to stretch my 15 minutes of fame into more than half a century of good fortune."

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 6:49 pm

Interesting piece on the LSE website. Hope he's wrong.
He only uses 'establishment' once, no mention of 'elites' thankfully.

''After the Brexit vote Plaid is finally becoming a radical alternative to Labour in Wales.''
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/11/0 ... -in-wales/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 7:20 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
HindleA wrote:RIP Robert Vaughn.
Loved The Man From Uncle when i was growing up. Pretty sure I had a Man from Uncle gun and badge too...

I had one of the annuals when I was a nipper. Also, they recently released the remastered box set of all episodes, including the pilot. Still enjoyable today.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 7:23 pm

http://www.reid.senate.gov/press_releas ... CYac-ynxpW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nevada Senator Harry Reid released the following statement about the election of Donald Trump as the 45th president of the United States:

Post by **refitman** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 7:30 pm

Tee-hee. Someone "updated" Farage's Wiki page:

Nigel Farage (born from the genetic mutation of a gone off sausage) is the current leader of UKIP, a party which claims not to be racist but is really popular with racists. Nigel Farage is best known for never being elected to the UK parliament, and never turning up to his job in the European parliament.

Recently he has changed his career from disappearing up his own arse and instead disappearing up Donald Trump’s arse. Farage claims to have been an integral part of the Leave campaign during Brexit, when in fact the Leave campaign thought he was too racist for the Leave campaign, so Farage was forced to be racist by himself.

His political leanings are that of a man with a head injury who screams at bins. He makes regular appearances on political talk shows as his character of “mad uniformed mince puppet”.

Nigel Farage is the political equivalent of catching the end of your penis in your trouser zip.

Has been fixed now.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 8:58 pm

A chance to win an energy makeover worth up to £50,000 and more for your school!

http://www.generationgreen.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Thought Roger might be interested in this)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 9:02 pm

Jeffrey GutermanVerified account
‏@JeffreyGuterman
Creationist Ben Carson is Trump's top pick for Secretary of Education. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 10006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 9:23 pm

I used to love HIGNFY. Then it gave Johnson a massive platform.
Look where we are now.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 9:28 pm

Ms Clinton is on track to win the votes of 63.4 million people, compared with 61.2 million for Mr Trump.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 12046.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The scale of that popular vote is one of the things encouraging the protests and unrest across the United States. Many – including Donald Trump in 2012 – argue that the electoral college is broken because it fails to reflect the will of the electorate properly, and that as a result the election of Mr Trump is illegitimate.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 9:29 pm

Four local council byelections this week:

Horsham DC - Tory hold with nearly two thirds of the vote, a big increase on 2015 when they took well under half (though determining exactly how big the change was depends on how you calculate changes when the successful slate of three Tories was challenged by various single candidates from other parties - not the first time there has been this problem) Going back further the Tories took comfortably over half the vote here both in 2011 and 2007 - on the latter occasion in a straight fight with the LibDems, and a straight swap as the yellows had won all three seats in 2003. They came a distant second now, with a small increase since last year, but are still some way off those days; Labour third with a small decrease which helped them overtake UKIP who saw their share more than halved to less than 7% and last place.

North Hertfordshire DC - Labour hold, though they fell from nearly half this May to less than a third now as an Independent came from nowhere to take second with nearly a quarter of the vote. Though this ward has been reliably Labour since it returned three councillors in the post boundary change 2007 elections, the Tories have usually come second and have at times managed to run things reasonably close - but this time round they had a double digit drop themselves and fell to third, indeed only just ahead of the LibDems whose 18 per cent was almost double what they got earlier this year. Greens last after seeing their share almost halved - no UKIP presence now even though they got the runners up spot here in 2014.

Greenwich - Tory gain from Labour, but despite this there was hardly any actual swing; basically a knife edge result in 2014 (where this ward split 1Tory/2Lab, though the winning Tory actually topped the poll) remained a knife edge result now as the Tories edged things whilst both they and Labour advanced substantially (by 9-10%) In 2002, 2006 and 2010 three Tory councillors were returned here (though only in 2006 were they genuinely comfortable) and what changed things here two years ago was a significant UKIP intervention that evidently harmed the Tories more. But on this occasion the UKIP share fell by nearly three quarters - from almost 20% last time to just 5% now - and this meant they also fell behind the LibDems, whose seemingly modest 9% was actually a significant improvement. Greens also slumped by some two thirds, to 3% and last. One last point which may be of interest - a previous early 2005 byelection here saw the Tories winning slightly more comfortably than now.

Wandsworth - Labour hold in a ward which, as with the last contest, was split in 2014 after voting in three Tories in the previous three elections; but after that the differences maybe become more apparent than the similarities. For this contest saw a Tory to Labour swing of almost exactly 10% meaning that they gained over half the vote and prevailed comfortably after it had been a 2Tory/1Lab split here two years ago; Tories fell back by over 5% to barely a third in what is one of their long established "flagship" councils. In what is now becoming a rather familiar pattern, a combination of modest LibDem advance and Green retreat saw them swap the "also ran" places compared to two years ago - UKIP beat the last placed LibDems then but did not stand this time.

Four contests again next week.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 11 Nov, 2016 11:10 pm

Joined-up thinking...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 12 Nov, 2016 12:27 am

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2016/ ... ns-report/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A few thoughts on the implications of the United Nations report

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 12 Nov, 2016 12:59 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin Rowson on a turbulent 2016 –

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Sat 12 Nov, 2016 1:50 am

HindleA wrote:https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2016/ ... ns-report/

A few thoughts on the implications of the United Nations report

More than a few thoughts, and thoughts well expressed.

However, in the spirit of constructive criticism I'd strongly suggest that kittysjones edits, parses, precis or otherwise cuts back the tangleweed strangling their argument.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 12 Nov, 2016 2:28 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/k ... mg00000004" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Katie Hopkins Trolled By LateRooms.Com Over Threat To Leave UK After Trump Victory

Hotel booking website LateRooms.com has offered Katie Hopkins a first free night if she follows through with her promise to move to America after Donald Trump’s election victory.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 12 Nov, 2016 3:02 am

https://www.theguardian.com/football/li ... -live-ohio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Final score: USA 1-2 Mexico

the first home qualifying loss in 15 years