Monday 14th November 2016
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Monday 14th November 2016
Morning all.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Morning
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Guardian view on social care: higher taxes or worse services
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Guardian view on social care: higher taxes or worse services
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ge-monbiot
Spoiler: It was all Maggie's fault (warning, contains picture)How a ruthless network of super-rich ideologues killed choice and destroyed people’s faith in politics
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Good-morning, everyone.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Employees £3,500 a year worse off under Tories, says Labour
Party says slow wage growth means chancellor should not go ahead with ‘damaging cuts’ to universal credit
Employees £3,500 a year worse off under Tories, says Labour
Party says slow wage growth means chancellor should not go ahead with ‘damaging cuts’ to universal credit
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sink or swim attack on the rights of disabled people
Sink or swim attack on the rights of disabled people
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Morning. The good news keeps rolling in:
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... in-the-nhs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sustainability and transformation plans in the NHS
How are they being developed in practice?
Sustainability and transformation plans in the NHS
How are they being developed in practice?
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2016 ... me-to.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cutting the Mail down to size: welcome to Scotland
Mainly macro
Cutting the Mail down to size: welcome to Scotland
Mainly macro
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Normalization in action:
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
There are some parallels between Trump and Mussolini's propaganda operation.
I've been reading a lot this year about that period in Italy to find out more about what life was like for my relatives who lived in Emilia Romagna, one of the areas of anti-Fascist resistance.
Trump obviously doesn't portray himself as physically virile in the way Il Duce did (& Putin does with his barechested stunts) but Italian Fascists didn't mind the public knowing Mussolini was sexually voracious and therefore 'virile'.
Trump's repulsive boasts and alleged activities were excused by some as him ''loving women''.
Also there was a scandal in Italy when Mussolini was reported to have accepted cheques from the French government (resented because of the Paris Peace Conference) early on in his political career. He did not sue for libel. Sounds familiar ?
Don't think Trump will go as far as Il Duce who posed at that time as living in a small room with a few sticks of furniture to fight the ''slanders'' and allegations that he had accepted money.
Fascist slogans ''Il Duce ha sempre ragione'' The Duce is always right. ''Me ne frego'' I don't give a damn.
Trump and Farage certainly embody the latter.
I've been reading a lot this year about that period in Italy to find out more about what life was like for my relatives who lived in Emilia Romagna, one of the areas of anti-Fascist resistance.
Trump obviously doesn't portray himself as physically virile in the way Il Duce did (& Putin does with his barechested stunts) but Italian Fascists didn't mind the public knowing Mussolini was sexually voracious and therefore 'virile'.
Trump's repulsive boasts and alleged activities were excused by some as him ''loving women''.
Also there was a scandal in Italy when Mussolini was reported to have accepted cheques from the French government (resented because of the Paris Peace Conference) early on in his political career. He did not sue for libel. Sounds familiar ?
Don't think Trump will go as far as Il Duce who posed at that time as living in a small room with a few sticks of furniture to fight the ''slanders'' and allegations that he had accepted money.
Fascist slogans ''Il Duce ha sempre ragione'' The Duce is always right. ''Me ne frego'' I don't give a damn.
Trump and Farage certainly embody the latter.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
What Trump and Corbyn had in common was social media. People like living in their closed bubble worlds, untroubled by voices they don't want to hear. Particularly voices saying "it is more complex than that."
The other thing in common seems to be dislike for Nato, and deep sympathy for Putin, bit that is rather different.
The other thing in common seems to be dislike for Nato, and deep sympathy for Putin, bit that is rather different.
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
The BBC have just noticed.
NHS bosses 'trying to keep cuts secret'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37943379" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NHS bosses 'trying to keep cuts secret'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37943379" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A spokesman for NHS England said that by the end of this week, plans for at least half of the reviews would be published - and the intention had always been to consult on the final plans if major changes were going to be made.
"I am sure there are things that could be learnt about the process. But when you are trying to improve care across a whole system, things are never going to be straightforward," added Prof Sir Bruce Keogh, NHS England's medical director.
However, Councillor Izzi Seccombe, of the Local Government Association, which represents councils, suggested the stance was a sham - as the public would in effect be consulted on "pre-determined solutions".
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Berlusconi may be a better fit for Trump IMO.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I’ve been thinking a lot about the meeting between Trump and Obama at the White House......
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I'd like to think Obama sees it that way.Obama’s chance for the most perfect revenge that would never be picked up on as revenge at all...................he would have treated Trump like an equal, and brought the discussion to a level that assumes far more of Trump than anyone has so far. Assumes that he’s an adult who’s been paying attention. Statistics, esoteric minutiae about the executive branch procedure, economic growth numbers, labor figures, domestic policies, countries Trump has never even heard of, shit that would never in a million years have been in Trump’s campaign soundbites or digestible summaries.
No way to escape. No aides to remember any of it for him. Just the two of them.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Morning all.
And Wolf used to be a government favourite when Give was around...no longer.
England’s higher education system ‘in tatters’
https://www.ft.com/content/07c2fbcc-a9b ... f98a0cf216
At some point, someone is going to have to say that while it's great that all who want to go to university should be able to do so, we simply cannot afford it.
That 70% is really alarming - the last I saw was in the 50-55% mark. Just not sustainable going forward.
And Wolf used to be a government favourite when Give was around...no longer.
England’s higher education system ‘in tatters’
https://www.ft.com/content/07c2fbcc-a9b ... f98a0cf216
andEngland’s higher education system is “in tatters”, according to a leading think-tank, with some qualifications “on the verge of total collapse”.
A report by Professor Alison Wolf of King’s College London has found that an increase in university graduates has resulted in “an unsustainable” funding system, while technical qualifications below degree level have suffered a “steep decline” in student numbers.
The growing number of graduates, meanwhile, has resulted in 30 per cent of the English workforce being overqualified for their role, compared with an OECD average of 22 per cent.
Baroness Wolf warned that increasing numbers of graduate students would lead to more government debt, as 70 per cent of full-time students taking out a loan are forecast not to repay it.
The trend of rising graduate numbers and declining technical qualifications will result in “huge costs for both the taxpayer and for students carrying loans for university study”, she said.
At some point, someone is going to have to say that while it's great that all who want to go to university should be able to do so, we simply cannot afford it.
That 70% is really alarming - the last I saw was in the 50-55% mark. Just not sustainable going forward.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I'm not quite sure what I think about Roy Lilley.
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/How- ... ioK0cmKVwI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No problem with his analysis.
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/How- ... ioK0cmKVwI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No problem with his analysis.
But then we should just let them get on with it?the STPs. Why is everyone on their case?
Think about it. There is huge demand and virtually no way to do much about it, other than analyse flow and divert it. Segment the users, redefine what care looks like, who does it and where.
That's called having a plan. To give the plans traction we have to have an overarching group of people who can pull the plan together. That's what we used to call a strategic health authority. Before that, a Regional Health Authority.
LaLa scrapped them and we are paying the price for trying to work without them. Hence STPs. They are a cobbled together, make-do-and-mend, lashed up solutions.
Cloud cuckoo land.Most STPs plans are far from oven-ready and need the time and space to get heads around what happens next. Leaking half baked documents is childish and feeds the egos of the 'know-betters' and deceives the public who may not realise, by law, in the end, will always have to be consulted in the normal way.
MPs, nervous about keeping their seats, shouldn't start hares running; it invites questions about why they voted for austerity economics that's made all this dismantling necessary.
We have to allow the STPs to do their job. Some will fail and we will learn. Some will be stunning and we will learn.
STPs are not the new kids on the block. They are the only kids on the block; to see us though the life and death weeks that we have left.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Fortunately, we have you to think for us Hugo.SpinningHugo wrote:What Trump and Corbyn had in common was social media. People like living in their closed bubble worlds, untroubled by voices they don't want to hear. Particularly voices saying "it is more complex than that."
The other thing in common seems to be dislike for Nato, and deep sympathy for Putin, bit that is rather different.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Back in the inter war period lots of "moderate" conservatives openly preferred fascism to socialism.NonOxCol wrote:Normalization in action:
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Judging by recent events, its not hard to see how.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
So the reason/excuse given for the remembrance day interview with Marine Le Pen was to "hold her to account"
We are living in an age where we are constantly surprised but I am genuinely amazed that anyone can really think that any BBC TV interviewer (with the possible exception of Andrew Neil/James O'Brien) can hold anyone to account.
Blimey if Andrew Marr is the best you've got then we really are in trouble!
Pre scripted questions with very little in the way of allowance for follow up or questioning of answers means that we rarely get any light or substance from any interviewee save for the message they want to put across.
We are now subject to "post truth" politics like never before and there seems very little any of the broadcasting organisations are willing/able to counteract the ability of politicians or any public figure to (lets call it what it really is) lie with impunity.
Now with proven liars at the heart of our political systems with no one to call them out it is staggering (to me) that the political class (and here I include political reporters/interviewers) are confused as to the disdain and disrepute they are currently viewed by the general public.
But whether they really care is another question.......................
We are living in an age where we are constantly surprised but I am genuinely amazed that anyone can really think that any BBC TV interviewer (with the possible exception of Andrew Neil/James O'Brien) can hold anyone to account.
Blimey if Andrew Marr is the best you've got then we really are in trouble!
Pre scripted questions with very little in the way of allowance for follow up or questioning of answers means that we rarely get any light or substance from any interviewee save for the message they want to put across.
We are now subject to "post truth" politics like never before and there seems very little any of the broadcasting organisations are willing/able to counteract the ability of politicians or any public figure to (lets call it what it really is) lie with impunity.
Now with proven liars at the heart of our political systems with no one to call them out it is staggering (to me) that the political class (and here I include political reporters/interviewers) are confused as to the disdain and disrepute they are currently viewed by the general public.
But whether they really care is another question.......................
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Hmm, there are remarkable similarities though,frightful_oik wrote:Fortunately, we have you to think for us Hugo.SpinningHugo wrote:What Trump and Corbyn had in common was social media. People like living in their closed bubble worlds, untroubled by voices they don't want to hear. Particularly voices saying "it is more complex than that."
The other thing in common seems to be dislike for Nato, and deep sympathy for Putin, bit that is rather different.
The 'make America great again' baseball cap bears a strikingly similarity to the 'JezWeCan' one for starters.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Andrew Marr is a notoriously "soft" interviewer (except when he is quizzing somebody to the left of Blair, anyway)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
The sheer self-satisfaction oozing from BBC News and Politics is almost as sickening as their embarrassing bias. As long ago as it seems, 2016 began with "Laura sealed the deal", lest we forget.ScarletGas wrote:So the reason/excuse given for the remembrance day interview with Marine Le Pen was to "hold her to account"
We are living in an age where we are constantly surprised but I am genuinely amazed that anyone can really think that any BBC TV interviewer (with the possible exception of Andrew Neil/James O'Brien) can hold anyone to account.
Blimey if Andrew Marr is the best you've got then we really are in trouble!
Pre scripted questions with very little in the way of allowance for follow up or questioning of answers means that we rarely get any light or substance from any interviewee save for the message they want to put across.
We are now subject to "post truth" politics like never before and there seems very little any of the broadcasting organisations are willing/able to counteract the ability of politicians or any public figure to (lets call it what it really is) lie with impunity.
Now with proven liars at the heart of our political systems with no one to call them out it is staggering (to me) that the political class (and here I include political reporters/interviewers) are confused as to the disdain and disrepute they are currently viewed by the general public.
But whether they really care is another question.......................
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
When stand in Eddie Mair monstered Johnson, the possibility of proper interviewing became apparent. Was it a stretch to think that Oliver and Llewellyn ensured this didn't happen again?AnatolyKasparov wrote:Andrew Marr is a notoriously "soft" interviewer (except when he is quizzing somebody to the left of Blair, anyway)
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37972528" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Sweden's chief prosecutor is questioning WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange about a rape allegation at the Ecuadorean embassy in London.
Finally. One wonders why the Swedish authorities have not done so before now.
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Although I suspect you aren't being entirely serious with this comment, it has got me thinking and in conclusion, I don't think there are any similarities at all. "JezWeCan" is an affectionate attempt by a small group of earnest and thoughtful people to try to galvanise wider enthusiasm for their cause. "Make America Great" in contrast is a carefully devised political strategy that originated in the Tea Party wing of the Republican party to attempt to reach parts of the electorate who are too poor to be swayed by their tax and economic policies for the wealthy. It has been taken up by the billionaire owned press both sides of the Atlantic and has greater similarities to the Brexit campaign and the almost unanimous utterance of successful Brexit voters that they have "got my country back". I don't think the similarities are coincidental.tinybgoat wrote:Hmm, there are remarkable similarities though,frightful_oik wrote:Fortunately, we have you to think for us Hugo.SpinningHugo wrote:What Trump and Corbyn had in common was social media. People like living in their closed bubble worlds, untroubled by voices they don't want to hear. Particularly voices saying "it is more complex than that."
The other thing in common seems to be dislike for Nato, and deep sympathy for Putin, bit that is rather different.
The 'make America great again' baseball cap bears a strikingly similarity to the 'JezWeCan' one for starters.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
55-year-old English man fluent in Spanish, after working in media for two decades, has somehow never come across the word "dystopia".
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Yvette Cooper was just on Daily Politics making the case for staying in the single market. She was very effective with her arguments as well. Hopefully we'll see more of this.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
We all gotta learn it some dayNonOxCol wrote:55-year-old English man fluent in Spanish, after working in media for two decades, has somehow never come across the word "dystopia".
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
"The BBC is doing the far right's work for it."
Ian Dunt.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11 ... ork-for-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nice to see people catch up. Some of us had them nailed back in pre-nesting days (on the H&SC Bill/Act and welfare especially), since when they have got far worse, and dangerously so.
Ian Dunt.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11 ... ork-for-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nice to see people catch up. Some of us had them nailed back in pre-nesting days (on the H&SC Bill/Act and welfare especially), since when they have got far worse, and dangerously so.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Given that #JezWeCan is a play on Obama's play on Bob the Builder's slogan, I'm going to assume that tinyb is taking the piss out of Hugo.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I'm also going to surmise that Hugo never actually uses Social Media, because it's the very last place you will go to only hear the same views of people living in the same bubble as you.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Does this mean Labour doesn't have one policy regarding the EU referendum result and the UK/EU relationship? Or can staying in the single market and limiting free movement co-exist? Genuine questions.Willow904 wrote:Yvette Cooper was just on Daily Politics making the case for staying in the single market. She was very effective with her arguments as well. Hopefully we'll see more of this.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Staying in the single market and limits on free movement cannot exist. It's a pipe dream. The EU is never going to agree to it, particularly the Eastern European components of it. At least, not without extracting an extortionate cost from us. Which the Tories are probably stupid enough to agree to. I remain to be convinced that the majority of the PLP is less stupid.
Last edited by JonnyT1234 on Mon 14 Nov, 2016 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
But she has been one of those arguing freedom of movement has to end (or at least changed in some unspecified way)Willow904 wrote:Yvette Cooper was just on Daily Politics making the case for staying in the single market. She was very effective with her arguments as well. Hopefully we'll see more of this.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
JP Morgan: Trump's stimulus plan would be dangerous
Donald Trump’s plan to boost US economic growth by rebuilding the nation’s infrastructure is dangerous and unnecessary, claims JP Morgan’s chief global strategist, David Kelly.
Two stories from today's guardian business blogFormer US Treasury secretary Larry Summers shares JP Morgan’s concerns about Trump’s infrastructure investment plan.
Writing in the Financial Times, Summers argues that the scheme won’t address the parts of America that most need improving, won’t get key private sector investors involved, and risks pushing borrowing to dangerous levels
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
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So the BBC, which went after Labour anti-Semitism like the proverbial dog with a bone, has failed to use the term in connection with Steve Bannon.
What a fucking surprise. What a bloody disgrace it is.
So the BBC, which went after Labour anti-Semitism like the proverbial dog with a bone, has failed to use the term in connection with Steve Bannon.
What a fucking surprise. What a bloody disgrace it is.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I think you're confused NonOxCol, a man who hates Jews isn't an anti-Semite. That's someone who hates Israelis and Palestinians murdering innocent people.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
The none too subtle message from the news that Obama is having to tutor Trump on how to be a president: Americans, you just elected an idiot.
Do you think many of them will notice?
Do you think many of them will notice?
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I was trying to think of analogy for Brietbart being appointed as chief advisers, but I just can't, there isn't anything.NonOxCol wrote:
So the BBC, which went after Labour anti-Semitism like the proverbial dog with a bone, has failed to use the term in connection with Steve Bannon.
What a fucking surprise. What a bloody disgrace it is.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
No. Why worry about detail? He's an outsider, build the wall, take our country back, &c &cJonnyT1234 wrote:The none too subtle message from the news that Obama is having to tutor Trump on how to be a president: Americans, you just elected an idiot.
Do you think many of them will notice?
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband are too intelligent to not notice single market and free movement are inseparable. What are they playing at?JonnyT1234 wrote:Staying in the single market and limits on free movement cannot exist. It's a pipe dream. The EU is never going to agree to it, particularly the Eastern European components of it. At least, not without extracting an extortionate cost from us. Which the Tories are probably stupid enough to agree to. I remain to be convinced that the majority of the PLP is less stupid.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/t ... c74c52c83c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Tory MP Attacks Theresa May On Bedroom Tax And Disability Cuts
(John Redwood)
Tory MP Attacks Theresa May On Bedroom Tax And Disability Cuts
(John Redwood)
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
"There have been heavy losses across the government bond markets today, both in developed and emerging economies"
https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... 4c9194688c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Did Redwood finally get 'round to reading the legislation he's helped create and vote through? It's only taken him nearly seven years.HindleA wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/t ... c74c52c83c?
Tory MP Attacks Theresa May On Bedroom Tax And Disability Cuts
(John Redwood)
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Governance isn't sport, not theatre, not a game of any kind. I resent players taking on leadership and forcing people to watch, listen, read their antics and still don't get their needs met.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I am no longer a member of Labour, I have given a fair chunk of the years, when able to, but I would join Welsh Labour if I was able to, chiefly because Carwyn Jones mostly gets it right.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
The bit about them not realising that the whole of the White House staff would have to be replaced is amazing - even I knew that!JonnyT1234 wrote:The none too subtle message from the news that Obama is having to tutor Trump on how to be a president: Americans, you just elected an idiot.
Do you think many of them will notice?
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 14th November 2016
Good old Carwyn Jones pointing out Farage's hypocrisy.
Farage is a ''grinning poppyless poppinjay in a gold lift with Donald Trump.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 16396.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Farage is a ''grinning poppyless poppinjay in a gold lift with Donald Trump.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 16396.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 14th November 2016
I thought this was the best bit -yahyah wrote:Good old Carwyn Jones pointing out Farage's hypocrisy.
Farage is a ''grinning poppyless poppinjay in a gold lift with Donald Trump.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 16396.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I will never insist that anyone must wear a poppy, or attend remembrance events. This is a free country, and people choose to remember in different ways.
But, hypocrisy is something else altogether. You don’t get to appropriate the Battle of Britain in your campaign literature, only to prioritise transatlantic photo-ops a few months later. (Independent)