Monday 21st November 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 3:28 pm

7m ago 15:19
Only 20% of voters think Farage should get a peerage, ICM poll suggests (Politics Live, Guardian)

Oh, well. Just a faint glimmer of hope that the whole world hasn't gone completely bonkers.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 3:41 pm

PorFavor wrote:Pat McFadden doing the same thing. Is it just that they like the sound of their own voices? Are they modelling themselves on past orators?

That contribution could have been less than half as long, and more than twice as punchy. The first (long) paragraph's-worth could have been done away with for starters.

(The text is over at Politics Live, 14.41, Guardian)

The prime minister has made her position clear.
In her own opinion, Brexit means cliff edge.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 3:42 pm

PorFavor wrote:
7m ago 15:19
Only 20% of voters think Farage should get a peerage, ICM poll suggests (Politics Live, Guardian)
Oh, well. Just a faint glimmer of hope that the whole world hasn't gone completely bonkers.

"only?" why use this word? It's a reminder of Ashcroft's polling result posting style. Spin, spin, spin.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 3:44 pm

PorFavor wrote:
7m ago 15:19
Only 20% of voters think Farage should get a peerage, ICM poll suggests (Politics Live, Guardian)
Oh, well. Just a faint glimmer of hope that the whole world hasn't gone completely bonkers.

I'm shocked it's that high. Upon a bit of reflection though, sticking Farage in the House of Lords might prevent
him from doing greater mischief elsewhere. I might be way out on that. Please let me know if I'm mistaken.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 3:45 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
7m ago 15:19
Only 20% of voters think Farage should get a peerage, ICM poll suggests (Politics Live, Guardian)
Oh, well. Just a faint glimmer of hope that the whole world hasn't gone completely bonkers.
"only?" why use this word? It's a reminder of Ashcroft's polling result posting style. Spin, spin, spin.

yep.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 3:51 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
7m ago 15:19
Only 20% of voters think Farage should get a peerage, ICM poll suggests (Politics Live, Guardian)
Oh, well. Just a faint glimmer of hope that the whole world hasn't gone completely bonkers.
I'm shocked it's that high. Upon a bit of reflection though, sticking Farage in the House of Lords might prevent
him from doing greater mischief elsewhere. I might be way out on that. Please let me know if I'm mistaken.

I think you are mistaken, the HoL has been the one break holding the full Tory excesses in check (if only slightly) in recent years. Farage would just increase the Tory numbers if he was elevated to the HoL making their job more difficult.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:00 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote: Oh, well. Just a faint glimmer of hope that the whole world hasn't gone completely bonkers.
I'm shocked it's that high. Upon a bit of reflection though, sticking Farage in the House of Lords might prevent
him from doing greater mischief elsewhere. I might be way out on that. Please let me know if I'm mistaken.
I think you are mistaken, the HoL has been the one break holding the full Tory excesses in check (if only slightly) in recent years. Farage would just increase the Tory numbers if he was elevated to the HoL making their job more difficult.

He's just one vote, assuming he shows up.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:05 pm

Sleepwalking?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... mendations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair

Sutherland Commission,not far off twenty years ago

In the words of the then health secretary, Frank Dobson, arrangements for long-term care of older people were so unsatisfactory that they "cannot be allowed to continue for much longer"

Who said "Labour in opposition said they would deal as a matter of urgency with the problem of long term care funding .Once in Government they used the Royal Commission to delay for two years,and now they are delaying again.

Phil Hammond.

Well,Phil?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:05 pm

Pressed later on whether May was signalling a transitional deal with the EU, the prime minister’s official
spokeswoman suggested it was one option under consideration to guard against a sudden Brexit affecting
businesses.

“She was reflecting the views we have expressed already about how we secure the best deal for the UK and
how we seek to provide certainty where we can to businesses and people across the UK of the steps moving
forward,” she said. “There are a whole range of issues that are being worked through as we prepare for the
negotiations.”

(my emphasis)

It's just a string of words.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I'm shocked it's that high. Upon a bit of reflection though, sticking Farage in the House of Lords might prevent
him from doing greater mischief elsewhere. I might be way out on that. Please let me know if I'm mistaken.
I think you are mistaken, the HoL has been the one break holding the full Tory excesses in check (if only slightly) in recent years. Farage would just increase the Tory numbers if he was elevated to the HoL making their job more difficult.

He's just one vote, assuming he shows up.

Which we probably shouldn't do, given how often he has attended his present place of "work"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:08 pm

Exactly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:22 pm

May addressed the issue during her speech in which she said Britain was at a “true national moment” that came with uncertainty but also opportunities.

“Opportunities to get out into the world and do new business with old allies and new partners. To use the freedoms that come from negotiating with
partners directly, to be flexible, to set our own rules and forge new and dynamic trading agreements that work for the whole UK. Opportunities to
become the true global champion of free trade,” she said.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... sa-may-cbi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After we pick ourselves up off the ground after rolling around laughing there, we note current government not only have
no negotiating skill themselves, they're not even skilled enough to find enough people capable of doing it all for them.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 4:56 pm

Do we need a bit of a laugh? I think this might do...

MAY VS MILO Theresa May branded a ‘total fascist’ by Milo Yiannopoulos after Trump firebrand banned from speaking at his old school in Kent

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2231693/t ... l-in-kent/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BRITISH right-wing firebrand Milo Yiannopoulos has branded Theresa May a “total fascist” after claims he was slapped with a Whitehall ban on speaking at his old school in Kent.

The Donald Trump supporter is a media star in America after using Twitter and Facebook to become the poster boy of America’s controversial “alt-right” movement.

The 32-year-old provocateur was due to speak tomorrow evening at the Simon Langton Grammar School for Boys in Canterbury – despite being expelled more than a decade ago.

But on Monday the school’s head teacher claimed he had been leaned on by the “Department for Education’s counter extremism unit” into cancelling the talk.

Mr Yiannopoulos hit back, branding Theresa May “a total fascist”.

That's 32 going on 12...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 5:02 pm

Diane James (remember her?) is the latest to jump the UKIP ship.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 5:16 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Diane James (remember her?) is the latest to jump the UKIP ship.

Party has served its purpose and has no real idea of what it stands for now.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 5:19 pm

Talking of UKIP...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 5:36 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 5:40 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30296.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Concentrix was wrong to stop tax credits in 90 per cent of appealed cases, figures show

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 5:46 pm

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... tatements/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LHA cap to affect all tenancies from 2019.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:04 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30491.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government scraps Pay To Stay plan to raise rents on higher income council tenants
The policy was reviewed over the summer

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... tatements/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:11 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Talking of UKIP...

We prefer to use the word "privateering" in polite society down in this part of the world.

(Actually, our local car ferries across the river are named after a renowned privateer, John Hauley. Chaucer was sent down from that there London to have a quiet word as the offspring of our big cheese was about to marry the offspring of a French or Spanish big cheese, or some such, and Hauley's habit of capturing foreign vessels and immediately entering the vanquished crew in the "who can survive the swim to the nearest land, oops-a-daisy, you're still wearing your armour" contests popular at the time was causing the odd raised eyebrow at court. But needless to say such go-getting international entrepreneurship was indulged, and he became a pillar of the community and immortalised as the "Shipman of Dertemouth". I might be a bit hazy on the facts - most were handed down to me when I was training to be a river boat skipper, and alongside pilotage and boat-handling, one had to learn "The Commentary", as handed down from skipper to apprentice. We didn't have The Google then. Well we sort of did, Ron Tucker, but he was pissed most of the time and prone to fantasy and exaggeration. Great commentary, though. Did well when the skipper's hat was put out for the passengers to show their appreciation at the end of the trip.)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:30 pm

Tory lead drops to 14 points in the monthly ICM poll. Labour up one to 28%, Tories 42%

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:31 pm

It'd all be ok if we had a different electorate.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:33 pm

I struggle to understand the 30% positive for Boris - really, who are these people?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:35 pm

The 'he's a laugh that Boris' brigade ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:42 pm

Did we see this?

amol rajan Verified account
‏@amolrajan

Here's the @bbcpress announcement on my new job as the @bbc's first Media Editor. http://bbc.in/2fjGeyg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Terrific - the guy that turned the Indy into a Tory supporter gets a BBC job after his paper stops printing.

What a great choice!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 6:45 pm

and he's been on Professional Masterchef as a restaurant critic.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:00 pm

Oddly enough, the school that either did or didn't get told by the DfE to decline (depending on who you believe) is the one where the son of Spiked writer and free speech at all costs advocate, Joanna Williams, attends. She's now written an article about it.

Fancy that!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:03 pm

What did I say the other week that the OBR and Robert Chute will be next?

Tough times for technocrats

http://www.instituteforgovernment.org.u ... =hootsuite

The OBR is likely to find itself on the other side of the argument from many Brexiteers. At the party conference, the Foreign Secretary said, “I have to tell any lingering gloomadon-poppers that never once have I felt that this country would be in any way disadvantaged by extricating ourselves from the EU treaties”.

All the indications are that the OBR may emerge as “gloomadon-popper” in chief – even if, as the Chancellor has said, its forecast is less pessimistic than it was a few weeks ago.

If we are to hold on to independent fiscal forecasting, the whole government from the Prime Minister down, will need to defend the integrity of the OBR from potential attack.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:25 pm

Historian finds German decree banishing Trump's grandfather

Roland Paul, a historian from Rhineland-Palatinate...found the document in local archives, told the tabloid Bild: “Friedrich Trump
emigrated from Germany to the USA in 1885. However, he failed to de-register from his homeland and had not carried out his
military service, which is why the authorities rejected his attempt at repatriation.”

The decree orders the “American citizen and pensioner Friedrich Trump” to leave the area “at the very latest on 1 May
... or else expect to be deported”.

Trump was born in Kallstadt, now in the state of Rhineland-Palatinate, in 1869. He emigrated to the US aged 16 initially to
escape poverty, attracted by the gold rush. He quickly turned his attention to catering for the masses of other gold hunters
in Alaska, later allegedly running a brothel for them, and there made his fortune.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... yal-decree" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There we are.
Likely made his fortune as a pimp.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:28 pm

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/ ... f9ca705c6a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump Gets $25 Million Tax Write-Off For Trump University Settlement

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-comeback" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tony-blair-hoping-to-revitalise-centre-ground-with-political-comeback

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:38 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-comeback

tony-blair-hoping-to-revitalise-centre-ground-with-political-comeback

Anyone for a Marmite sandwich?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:40 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-comeback

tony-blair-hoping-to-revitalise-centre-ground-with-political-comeback
Anyone for a Marmite sandwich?

I dislike the stuff

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:40 pm

From only this morning

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:46 pm

I think that the return of Tony Blair would just about finish me off.

Added to which - I think that the way things are, the left stands its best chance in a long time (once people are forced to realise the enormity of what they've done). And realise they will, if they live long enough.

Edited to add

I don't think that people are in any mood for a "middle" way.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:51 pm

Hard Brexit would be disaster for working people, say Labour MPs
Dozens of MPs write letter in response to calls from Tories for withdrawal from single market and EU customs union
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... mps-letter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold)

I'm uncertain why 'dozens' is used in the headline when 90 MPs signed their name to the letter linked and quoted from below.

Hard Brexit would leave British people poorer – Labour MPs

...the UK is now an attractive destination for inward investment because we are a gateway to a market of 500 million
consumers, reducing our access reduces our attractiveness for investment and therefore job creation. Combined,
these factors will mean that British people will be poorer.

Advocates of a hard Brexit need to swap rhetoric for answers. Which sectors do they think can survive facing new trade barriers?
Which new trade deals will be signed, when and with whom? The referendum result was a cry from many communities that they
wanted to share in future economic gains, not to remain left behind. A hard Brexit is the worst of all worlds and does nothing to
honour their aspirations.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ain-poorer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:53 pm

Appears to have been a good speech from Corbyn to the CBI, whether it gets coverage or commentary, well. Perhaps if it was panned, controversial or had a mistake in laurak would spring into action.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 7:53 pm

Labour shelves plans for more power for party members

Proposals for grassroots representation and shadow cabinet elections put on hold as party focuses on election strategy (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ty-members

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:02 pm

Tomas Hirst ‏@tomashirstecon 4h4 hours ago

#Brexit Update: The UK Government's attempt to negotiate a negotiating position with itself has resulted in stalemate

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:11 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Labour shelves plans for more power for party members

Proposals for grassroots representation and shadow cabinet elections put on hold as party focuses on election strategy (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ty-members

“The prospect of an early general election has accelerated our progress in bringing the Labour party’s campaigning techniques up to date,” a Labour source said.

The prospect of an early election? Have I missed something?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:32 pm

Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Labour shelves plans for more power for party members

Proposals for grassroots representation and shadow cabinet elections put on hold as party focuses on election strategy (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ty-members

“The prospect of an early general election has accelerated our progress in bringing the Labour party’s campaigning techniques up to date,” a Labour source said.
The prospect of an early election? Have I missed something?

I've not read anything about an early election. But I like this in conjunction with Labour MPs stepping up and saying the Tory
'Brexit' thing isn't on. Tories have nothing. Stringing meaningless words together without relief. They've got to go.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:37 pm

This just made me chuckle

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:43 pm

Yes Corbyn seems to have been drawing on Wilson's "white heat of technology".

Well good for him. Wouldn't it be good for us to focus on new technologies that we're actually quite good at, rather than asset stripping our great companies and wrecking our universities?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:47 pm

Corbyn's new media manager seems to know what he's doing.

This, in the Telegraph latest

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 8:50 pm

Did I dream he had a new media person?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 9:08 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... net-access" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government promise of fast, cheap Wi-Fi on trains goes off the rails

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 9:10 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... net-access

Government promise of fast, cheap Wi-Fi on trains goes off the rails

Meanwhile in the Northern Powerhouse, Transpennine trains have no wifi at all at any speed or price

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 9:12 pm

Commentary from Angela Rayner on the HE Bill