Tuesday 6th December 2016

[citizenJA]

@Tubby Isaacs
It's good to read you here, I've missed you.

[Temulkar]

The differencce between the far left and social democracy can be summed up in one word, Tubby, do you know what it is?

Magic darts.

That would be two words wouldn't it, Tubby, I mean I get you dont understand political affiliation, but remedial maths?

[tinybgoat]

The differencce between the far left and social democracy can be summed up in one word, Tubby, do you know what it is?

Magic darts.

That would be two words wouldn't it, Tubby, I mean I get you dont understand political affiliation, but remedial maths?

Sid Waddell?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-spo ... rs-1254303

[Tubby Isaacs]

There was something about those with private health insurance plans facing higher bills to fund Obamacare. I don't know if this is factual, but premiums had definitely been going up and if people believed it was because of Obamacare it could have been quite toxic for any democrat candidate

Hi Willow, nice to see you again.

There were definitely some problems with premiums, really badly timed. The rises over the Obamacare period aren't bad overall though.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Magic darts.

That would be two words wouldn't it, Tubby, I mean I get you dont understand political affiliation, but remedial maths?

Sid Waddell?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-spo ... rs-1254303

That's the one!

You and I could probably exchange Fast Show catch phrases some time.

[Tubby Isaacs]

@Tubby Isaacs
It's good to read you here, I've missed you.

Thank you. Missed you too.

[HindleA]

As an intelligent soul you will know words and meanings are socially constructed not an unique cast in stone accepted "thing".

[Temulkar]

That would be two words wouldn't it, Tubby, I mean I get you dont understand political affiliation, but remedial maths?

Sid Waddell?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-spo ... rs-1254303

That's the one!

You and I could probably exchange Fast Show catch phrases some time.

You clearly know more about the fast show than you do politics. Maybe stick to the comedy, I mean you're a real joker.

Still I await with baited breath an explanation of the difference between social democracy annd the hard left.

[Tubby Isaacs]

You've got to vote for Article 50 in March or else that means you're opposing the will of the people?

I don't want it in March. There are French Elections in May and German Elections in October/November. The first 8 months will be the two most powerful rEU countries being very hardline so that their Kippers don't get any boost.

The EU bloke today said there'd only be 18 months of negotiation. So that leaves about 10 months.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Sid Waddell?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-spo ... rs-1254303

That's the one!

You and I could probably exchange Fast Show catch phrases some time.

You clearly know more about the fast show than you do politics. Maybe stick to the comedy, I mean you're a real joker.

Still I await with baited breath an explanation of the difference between social democracy annd the hard left.

Bated breath.

[Tubby Isaacs]

So it all comes down to should Parliament scrutinise or not. Being tested simultaneously in the House and in the Supreme Court.

yes, that was noted elsewhere.

Jo Maugham QC ‏@JolyonMaugham 3m3 minutes ago

Jo Maugham QC Retweeted LittleGravitas

(IMO) the Government's proposed amendment has generated fresh political relevance for the outcome of the Miller case.

IDS must have a very short attention span (or more likely just dim) if he found the Supreme Court proceedings like watching paint dry.

Imagine what composing a brief for IDS must have been like.

[HindleA]

Claimed them on expenses,I believe.Wonder who will replace Freud.

[HindleA]

"Sorry we've left such a mess,old cock"


Edited,or "old hen"

[Tubby Isaacs]

Tom Newton Dunn ✔ @tnewtondunn
This is now Labour's dilemma - give Theresa May a blank cheque, or be seen to block Brexit

Labour must have done better at the last election than I remember if they can "block" anything. Ah, "seen to" means "we can lyingly say they are".

Saying we want to see the Nissan deal and wait till after the German elections, that's proper blocking Brexit.

[Temulkar]

As an intelligent soul you will know words and meanings are socially constructed not an unique cast in stone accepted "thing".

Not this word, its meaning is very clear and has been for considerable time - at least half a millenia.

What is actually quite terrifying is that on a forum that professes to be leftwards leaning, not a single one of you can name the word, not a single one here seems to understand the difference between hard left and social democracy, and why it is very important, or why it goes to the heart of the Labour movement.

I could have asked that question of a GCSE class and got the correct answer in seconds. It perfectly exemplifies why the 'moderates' are failing - they don't even knnow their own party's constitution or history.

So forgive me if Ive annoyed people, but I'm frankly sick of people who demonstrably don't understand what they are talking about, spouting their nonsense and bile unchallenged. Im frankly sick of people whining and bleating about Corbyn whilst the world goes to hell in a hand cart, and Im sick of the ignorance, sick to my back teeth of the ignorance in fact, and it's been displayed here yet again. Im not letting it pass, Im not leaving the board, but I am taking an increasing stand against the wilfullly ignorant and their stupidity.

So Tubby one word - managed to figure it out yet?

[Temulkar]

That's the one!

You and I could probably exchange Fast Show catch phrases some time.

You clearly know more about the fast show than you do politics. Maybe stick to the comedy, I mean you're a real joker.

Still I await with baited breath an explanation of the difference between social democracy annd the hard left.

Bated breath.

One word, and I wont mind if you misspell it. Cmon Tuby whats the difference between Social Democracy and far left? One medium sized word but you just don't know it do you?

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -issue-173" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Latest HB bulletin,these are useful in ascertaining policy/methods of implementation.This one noticeable by utilising LA care records for employment schemes.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The contributory welfare system is a “sham” and should be replaced by a private insurance scheme, a thinktank headed by the Conservative former work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith has recommended. As the Press Association reports, middle class claimants are being failed because the system does not reward those who have paid the most in, according to the Centre for Social Justice (CSJ). Welfare reforms mean a claimant who has paid national insurance for 25 years could receive less than a 25-year-old who has worked sporadically, it found. Cutting ties with the European Union will free the government from Brussels’ rules that have stopped it axing the contributory system, the CSJ claimed.

These are the welfare forms put into practice by IDS?

If the problem is that people don't get back what they pay in, why not change that? How does "private insurance" follow?

[gilsey]

The contributory welfare system is a “sham” and should be replaced by a private insurance scheme, a thinktank headed by the Conservative former work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith has recommended. As the Press Association reports, middle class claimants are being failed because the system does not reward those who have paid the most in, according to the Centre for Social Justice (CSJ). Welfare reforms mean a claimant who has paid national insurance for 25 years could receive less than a 25-year-old who has worked sporadically, it found. Cutting ties with the European Union will free the government from Brussels’ rules that have stopped it axing the contributory system, the CSJ claimed.

These are the welfare forms put into practice by IDS?

If the problem is that people don't get back what they pay in, why not change that? How does "private insurance" follow?

Private insurance follows in the same way as it does for the chronically underfunded NHS, ie not at all.

[citizenJA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -issue-173

Latest HB bulletin,these are useful in ascertaining policy/methods of implementation.This one noticeable by utilising LA care records for employment schemes.

Journey to Employment job club

Often, the best advocates of the positive impact of being in work are people who themselves have had the
experience of managing a serious health condition, or overcoming an employer’s prejudice about disability.

We have already tested Journey to Employment peer support job clubs on a small scale, offering personalised
support in a group environment delivered by people who have personal experience of disability, drawing on
research by Disability Rights UK and the Work Foundation.

These clubs often take place outside a Jobcentre as this provides an alternative setting which may be more
effective for some individuals with health conditions.

Local Supported Employment provision

DWP will work closely with LAs to pilot an approach to deliver Local Supported Employment targeted at those
with a learning disability or autism known to Adult Social Care, or those in contact with secondary mental health
services. We will contact LAs shortly.

(cJA emphasis)

Are government going to force people into care work?

[citizenJA]

"But the contributory benefits system is no longer working.

For one thing, there is now no relationship between the amount claimants receive and the amount they contribute.
There is no reward for effort and responsibility: you get no more if you have worked hard and paid into the system
all your working life than if you have done just enough to meet the NI threshold."

https://capx.co/britain-needs-to-upgrad ... ts-system/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA emphasis)

'Reward' people made redundant or suffering injury or sickness?

[HindleA]

Successive Governments(for working age particularly) have undermined the contributory system,suffice to say with vigour under IDS to account for times of sickness-time limit,reduce to JSA level,for WRAG,the Reform think tank who wishes to reduce for all,now have a representative on the advisory committee,remove youth contribution,bereavement payment changes.Contributory,what is left of them do not come under UC,but on claiming cJSA time limited to six months,it was clear that the default was to deny by default,a letter automated stating insufficient NI without even checking etc.

[Tubby Isaacs]

More on why Trump won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_di ... ifications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The effect of Florida's law is such that in 2014 "[m]ore than one in ten Floridians – and nearly one in four African-American Floridians – are shut out of the polls because of felony convictions.

Black population of Florida over 18- about 2.4m.

Trump margin 113,000.

This sort of corrupt rubbish now passes without comment.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Successive Governments(for working age particularly) have undermined the contributory system,suffice to say with vigour under IDS to account for times of sickness-time limit,reduce to JSA level,for WRAG,the Reform think tank who wishes to reduce for all,now have a representative on the advisory committee,remove youth contribution,bereavement payment changes.Contributory,what is left of them do not come under UC,but on claiming cJSA was clear that the default was to deny by default,a letter automated stating insufficient NI without even checking etc.

Yeah, exactly.

[citizenJA]

More on why Trump won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_di ... ifications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The effect of Florida's law is such that in 2014 "[m]ore than one in ten Floridians – and nearly one in four African-American Floridians – are shut out of the polls because of felony convictions.

Black population of Florida over 18- about 2.4m.

Trump margin 113,000.

This sort of corrupt rubbish now passes without comment.

Incredible, isn't it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Wisconsin.

Trump margin- 23,000.

Won't let anybody on probation vote.

Numbers on probation- 68,000.

[Hobiejoe]

I'm going to have a stab at "consent".

Meanwhile, although I'm aware that May has been busily photo-oping on one of our few remaining Naval vessels in one of our less than salubrious allies' water, I've been out hunting wild Pokemons with the boy. Has anyone, by which I mean any journalist, pointed out that HMS Ocean is the latest in a long line of perfectly good vessels being sent to the knackers yard, and just after very recently receiving a very expensive refit?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Wisconsin did voter suppression too.

So that and Florida are 39 electoral college votes.

That's HRC winning the election.

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -issue-173

Latest HB bulletin,these are useful in ascertaining policy/methods of implementation.This one noticeable by utilising LA care records for employment schemes.

Journey to Employment job club

Often, the best advocates of the positive impact of being in work are people who themselves have had the
experience of managing a serious health condition, or overcoming an employer’s prejudice about disability.

We have already tested Journey to Employment peer support job clubs on a small scale, offering personalised
support in a group environment delivered by people who have personal experience of disability, drawing on
research by Disability Rights UK and the Work Foundation.

These clubs often take place outside a Jobcentre as this provides an alternative setting which may be more
effective for some individuals with health conditions.

Local Supported Employment provision

DWP will work closely with LAs to pilot an approach to deliver Local Supported Employment targeted at those
with a learning disability or autism known to Adult Social Care, or those in contact with secondary mental health
services. We will contact LAs shortly.

(cJA emphasis)

Are government going to force people into care work?

About using records/information gleaned from LA's.

[StephenDolan]

A red, white and blue Brexit. That's some lame material.

[HindleA]

Work opportunities are explored in assessments by care managers,there lies the possible route to any liaison,not the hot breath of the DWP or agents of scrutinising,served up.

[Temulkar]

I'm going to have a stab at "consent".

Meanwhile, although I'm aware that May has been busily photo-oping on one of our few remaining Naval vessels in one of our less than salubrious allies' water, I've been out hunting wild Pokemons with the boy. Has anyone, by which I mean any journalist, pointed out that HMS Ocean is the latest in a long line of perfectly good vessels being sent to the knackers yard, and just after very recently receiving a very expensive refit?

Im afraid not, but it's better than any Mr Isaacs has managed, and only one word, so you're better on comprehension too

[Tubby Isaacs]

Actually, I may have got Wisconsin wrong. Maybe people who just get probation can vote.

But you get the picture. Even when it doesn't effect the result, there's a constant effort by GOP at state level to have fewer black people voting.

I think I'm well within my rights to call people who vote for this stuff as entitled whites.

The same GOP state people duly change the House districts so that as many of them get elected as possible. They then block the President from doing anything, and argue we need a dynamic businessman to get things done.

[55DegreesNorth]

Evening folks,
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... -of-facts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IN NOVEMBER, Donald Trump defied the pollsters to be elected the 45th US president. A few months earlier, UK voters decided to end their country’s 43-year membership of the European Union. Throughout Europe populist movements are prospering. In every case, opponents have cried foul: these campaigns, they argue, win support by distorting or flagrantly disregarding the truth.

Politicians spin and politicians lie. That has always been the case, and to an extent it is a natural product of a free democratic culture. Even so, we do appear to have entered a new era of “post-truth politics”, where the strongest currency is what satirist Stephen Colbert has dubbed “truthiness”: claims that feel right, even if they have no basis in fact, and which people want to believe because they fit their pre-existing attitudes.
In recent years, psychologists and political scientists have been revealing the shocking extent to which we’re all susceptible to truthiness, and how that leads to polarised views on factual questions from the safety of vaccines to human-caused climate change. The fact is that facts play less of a role in shaping our views than we might hope for in a species whose Latin name means “wise man” – and the problem seems to be getting worse.

[Bonnylad]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... we-thought" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Temulkar]

Actually, I may have got Wisconsin wrong. Maybe people who just get probation can vote.

But you get the picture. Even when it doesn't effect the result, there's a constant effort by GOP at state level to have fewer black people voting.

I think I'm well within my rights to call people who vote for this stuff as entitled whites.

The same GOP state people duly change the House districts so that as many of them get elected as possible. They then block the President from doing anything, and argue we need a dynamic businessman to get things done.

Not the only thing you got wrong today, at least you acknowledge this one. Now how about the difference between far left and social democracy?

[PorFavor]

Ownership.

[HindleA]

floccinaucinihilipilificatiousness



Or not.

[GetYou]

A red, white and blue Brexit. That's some lame material.

If we have to have one, can we have a short back and sides Brexit?

[PorFavor]

A red, white and blue Brexit. That's some lame material.

If we have to have one, can we have a short back and sides Brexit?

I'd like a nice taupe.

[GetYou]

Back, sack and crack Brexit?

[tinybgoat]

Ownership.

Misuse of apostrophes would become an even more serious matter (if that were possible)

https://proletariandemocracy.wordpress. ... -posadist/

[PorFavor]

Heavy fog descends on southern England

Well, that's my excuse sorted.

[PorFavor]

Ownership.

Misuse of apostrophes would become an even more serious matter (if that were possible)

https://proletariandemocracy.wordpress. ... -posadist/

Worrying - I hadn't thought of that.

[AngryAsWell]

anti-capitalist

[Willow904]

I thought social democrats accept capitalism and the world in general as it is, seeking to achieve greater equality from within the system, rather than overthrow it.

Being pro-EU is more socially democratic than being anti-EU, as it reflects a wish to work within the established system, rather than break it apart to re-invent it. Ed Miliband is a natural social Democrat. Jeremy Corbyn seems to have to work at being a social Democrat, while McDonnell often doesn't appear to even try.

I have no definition for "far left", I'm afraid. I thought it was a relative term. Left wing derives from the French revolution? The Whigs were described as left wing. I have never thought of left, far left or hard left as anything other than vague shorthand, or simply to the left of social democracy, which if you think of Ed Miliband as a typical social Democrat, Corbyn and McDonnell are probably to the left of him.

Is your one word "revolution"?

[Hobiejoe]

Back, sack and crack Brexit?

But now we can trade with the rest of the world we can lie back and "enjoy" a Brazilian.

[HindleA]

Parlez-vous Francais?

[Temulkar]

Sigh, the ignorance here is astounding, and you people make pronouncements on corbyn as incompetent?

The word is revolutionary, at least Willow teetered around it. The hard left is a revolutionary movement commited to the overthrow of the state. Corbyn is not hard left; never has been and never will be. He is a social democrat (you know democracy the thing some on here have been whining about for months) and quuite a moderate one in the European spectrum of left and right - you know Europe another thing you are all bleating incessantly about, whilst ignoring or dissmissing austerity, as 'yesterdays news'.

Some of you should be ashamed, others here I know will revel in their ignorance, as they do daily.

If you smear the democratic left as revolutionary, you will end up with a revolutionary movement. That is in nobody's interest, but it's where we are headed and not because of Trump or UKIP, but because of people on here and their ilk who try to shut down political discourse with lies and smears. I couldn't have wished for a more perfect example of the mendacious decietfulness peddled by the moderates than Tubby's earlier smear - whether through stupidity and ignorance, or willfully as I suspect.

Tubby and Hugo and the others who peddle this deliberate lie deserve the opprobrium I am pouring over their heads, they are lucky it isnt ordure, because they are wilfully corrupting political discourse as much as any prounouncement by Farage or Trump. They are worse in fact, because they claim to be better whilst being just as guilty as proven liars.

Tubby lied about the labour leader today, a grotesque lie, and one easily dismissed, but it was still a lie, still a smear, however laughable. How many of you are labour members who said nothing as their party was being smeared and lied about, whilst it was left to a green to point out the lie?

So Croeso i Cymru, Tubby, you'll find the welsh wont put up with you englishsplaining our politics, and they will laugh in your face if you start bleating the drivel you have here today.

[Hobiejoe]

Sigh, the ignorance here is astounding, and you people make pronouncements on corbyn as incompetent?

The word is revolutionary, at least Willow teetered around it. The hard left is a revolutionary movement commited to the overthrow of the state. Corbyn is not hard left; never has been and never will be. He is a social democrat (you know democracy the thing some on here have been whining about for months) and quuite a moderate one in the European spectrum of left and right - you know Europe another thing you are all bleating incessantly about, whilst ignoring or dissmissing austerity, as 'yesterdays news'.

Some of you should be ashamed, others here I know will revel in their ignorance, as they do daily.

If you smear the democratic left as revolutionary, you will end up with a revolutionary movement. That is in nobody's interest, but it's where we are headed and not because of Trump or UKIP, but because of people on here and their ilk who try to shut down political discourse with lies and smears. I couldn't have wished for a more perfect example of the mendacious decietfulness peddled by the moderates than Tubby's earlier smear - whether through stupidity and ignorance, or willfully as I suspect.

Tubby and Hugo and the others who peddle this deliberate lie deserve the opprobrium I am pouring over their heads, they are lucky it isnt ordure, because they are wilfully corrupting political discourse as much as any prounouncement by Farage or Trump. They are worse in fact, because they claim to be better whilst being just as guilty as proven liars.

Tubby lied about the labour leader today, a grotesque lie, and one easily dismissed, but it was still a lie, still a smear, however laughable. How many of you are labour members who said nothing as their party was being smeared and lied about, whilst it was left to a green to point out the lie?

So Croeso i Cymru, Tubby, you'll find the welsh wont put up with you englishsplaining our politics, and they will laugh in your face if you start bleating the drivel you have here today.

I take well your point, I almost daily have to point out that Corbyn is not the red blooded revolutionary he's portrayed as. I'm a pub landlord, I really, really suffer in doing so, both financially and in my soul.

And my "consent" - we agree, I just came from the other side of the coin.