Thursday 8th December 2016

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 1:27 pm

HindleA wrote:

No Bregrets: Sunderland after the vote to leave the European Union – video

Though one vaguely recalls a poll of NE voters recently that suggests slightly differently?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 1:38 pm

All the people I know from the area were against leaving,not that I know a tremendous amount.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 1:39 pm

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 1:44 pm

It seems Michael Rosen has been having similar thoughts on Andy Burnham's comments on immigration today as some here at ftn:

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/ ... l?spref=tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 1:56 pm

tinybgoat wrote:Morning, I listened to some of the debate yesterday & think at some stage Keir Starmer asked the minister responsible to confirm that MPs would have the right to vote on whether to accept the article 50 final withdrawal agreement , reason being that MEPs would already be doing so.
Sorry for being vague & think I may have misheard/ misunderstood, but thought that was quite a major concession?

Found some more details in daily express (very,sorry**)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... heresa-May

As MPs debated whether Theresa May should be forced to outline her Brexit strategy before Article 50 negotiations, Labour’s shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer asked Mr Davis to confirm if there will be a parliamentary vote on the final deal.
Mr Davis said: "All I can say is what I have said before which is that is what I expect, simple as that."
When pushed by Labour former frontbencher Chris Bryant to guarantee a vote, Mr Davis said: "If the EU Parliament has a vote, it's inconceivable this House doesn't, simple as that."
But, Tory backbencher Jacob Rees-Mogg asked Mr Davis to confirm whether such a vote would be “merely on the deal” and “could not reverse the fact we have left the EU”.
Mr Davis said: “That is entirely correct.”

Not sure if this is significant or not.

(**Debate also available, here .
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... .0&p=11915)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:07 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1542046 ... te-further" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
These flawed Tory assessments only create further waste and expense - Abrahams

Debbie Abrahams MP, Labour’s Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, responding to statistics showing an increase in assessment decisions overturned, said:

“The fact that such a high proportion of assessments are being overturned at appeal is a damning indictment of this government’s cruel social security reforms and six wasted years of austerity.

“These flawed Tory assessments only create further waste and expense, as thousands upon thousands are overturned in the courts.

“That’s why Labour has committed to scrapping the Work Capability Assessment and transforming our social security system, based on the principles of inclusion, dignity and support.”

1. ‘Tribunals and gender recognition certificate statistics quarterly: July to September 2016’ published today show that 65 percent of Personal Independence Payment assessments and 62 percent of Work Capability Assessments are being overturned on appeal at tribunals.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:22 pm

Willow904 wrote:It seems Michael Rosen has been having similar thoughts on Andy Burnham's comments on immigration today as some here at ftn:

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/ ... l?spref=tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All of us here at ftn, surely?
Anyone going to stand up for AB? Thought not.
Horrid.

If it's not going on and you know it's not going on, isn't it your job as an MP to tell your constituents who have this 'perception' that they've got it wrong?
8. Or is it your job to attach yourself to their coat-tails and indeed to the coattails of UKIP and the Tories and repeat 'immigrants make poor people poorer' (or words to that effect)?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:24 pm

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news- ... =hootsuite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AN OLDHAM MP has criticised a report on community cohesion published earlier this week.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:26 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:Morning, I listened to some of the debate yesterday & think at some stage Keir Starmer asked the minister responsible to confirm that MPs would have the right to vote on whether to accept the article 50 final withdrawal agreement , reason being that MEPs would already be doing so.
Sorry for being vague & think I may have misheard/ misunderstood, but thought that was quite a major concession?
Found some more details in daily express (very,sorry**)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... heresa-May

As MPs debated whether Theresa May should be forced to outline her Brexit strategy before Article 50 negotiations, Labour’s shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer asked Mr Davis to confirm if there will be a parliamentary vote on the final deal.
Mr Davis said: "All I can say is what I have said before which is that is what I expect, simple as that."
When pushed by Labour former frontbencher Chris Bryant to guarantee a vote, Mr Davis said: "If the EU Parliament has a vote, it's inconceivable this House doesn't, simple as that."
But, Tory backbencher Jacob Rees-Mogg asked Mr Davis to confirm whether such a vote would be “merely on the deal” and “could not reverse the fact we have left the EU”.
Mr Davis said: “That is entirely correct.”
Not sure if this is significant or not.

(**Debate also available, here .
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... .0&p=11915)

If MPs don't like the deal, what's the alternative? There isn't one.
At least that's the govt intention, I assume.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:27 pm

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/commis ... 67.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Virgin Care has clinched contracts worth £65m to provide urgent care services – including out-of-hours GP services – and community services in one region of England.

The company will take over the five-year contracts for NHS community health services, worth £45m, and urgent care services, worth £20m, for West Lancashire on 1 April 2017.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:28 pm

Apologies if already mentioned

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/barrister-p ... l-article/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A barrister picks apart Iain Duncan Smith’s arguments on the Article 50 hearing

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/barrister-p ... l-article/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:31 pm

National Grid sells majority stake in UK gas infrastructure to Chinese and Qatari state investors
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 63256.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:34 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12 ... s-hanging/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Andrew Marr heading to America for 'controversial' stroke treatment which involves him hanging upside down

Thoroughly recommended.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:46 pm

"IFX Investment Company Ltd and Others (Respondents) v Commissioners for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (Appellant) UKSC 2016/0120

On appeal from the Court of Appeal Civil Division (England and Wales)

Permission for HMRC to appeal was refused in a case relating to whether "Spot the Ball" is a game of chance and therefore exempt from VAT.

The issue in this case was whether operators of "Spot the Ball" competitions were exempt from VAT as providing "facilities for the playing of games of chance". The period in issue was from 23 April 1979 to 31 December 2006. A typical coupon invited a participant to use "skill and judgment" to decide in a picture where he thought the centre of an imaginary football should be, and to indicate that spot by making a cross. The rules made clear that the winner would be decided not by reference to the actual position of the ball, which had been removed from the picture, but by reference to the opinion of a panel of experts as to which entry was the most skilful or was closest to the panel's opinion of the most logical position of the ball. The First-tier Tribunal decided as a preliminary issue that "Spot the Ball" is "a game of chance". On appeal, the Upper Tribunal found that "Spot the Ball" is not a "game" and is not "played". The Court of Appeal restored the First-tier Tribunal's decision.

The Supreme Court has declined to hear the appeal and the Court of Appeal judgment will therefore stand:"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 2:51 pm

http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/birmingh ... rther-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Birmingham Faces Further £78million cuts

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:30 pm

RIP Greg Lake.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:35 pm

Willow904 wrote:It seems Michael Rosen has been having similar thoughts on Andy Burnham's comments on immigration today as some here at ftn:

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/ ... l?spref=tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The papers they read were filled with vague and alarming accounts of the quantities of foreign merchandise imported into this country,
the enormous numbers of aliens constantly arriving, and their destitute conditions, how they lived, the crimes they committed, and the
injury they did to British trade. These were the seeds which, cunningly sown in their minds, caused to grow up within them a bitter
undiscriminating hatred of foreigners…

The country was in a hell of a state, poverty, hunger and misery in a hundred forms had already invaded thousands of homes
and stood upon the thresholds of thousands more. How came these things to be? It was the bloody foreigner!"

- Robert Tressell
The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists
1914

https://conwayhall.org.uk/ethicalrecord ... thropists/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Approximately 1.8 billion people were alive in the world around the time Tressell wrote his book, around 1910. Fewer than 40 million people lived in the the UK at that time.
The arguments about why some people live in poverty, need to accept low wages and dwell in expensive, poorly maintained housing haven't changed much.

The world has an estimated 7.5 billion people alive in the world now. About 64 million people are living in the UK.
Check out the link below to see the population changes between 1900 and 2010 in decade intervals.

It's only the human condition if we all agree a few people get to keep most of what we all create together leaving most people with little.
Carrying capacity of environments have limitations and the number of lives the planet is able to sustain given technologies and resources available are finite.
That's not what poverty was about in 1910 and it's not what it's about a hundred years later either. Anyone tell you different is a liar. A few take too much and
let the rest make do with crumbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... _over_time" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:36 pm

Palmer gets nervous.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:38 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news- ... =hootsuite

AN OLDHAM MP has criticised a report on community cohesion published earlier this week.

Good for her, Casey is a charlatan.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:44 pm

Yeah.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:55 pm

gilsey wrote:National Grid sells majority stake in UK gas infrastructure to Chinese and Qatari state investors
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 63256.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh my god
It's nearly four o'clock and I need some tea
anyone else?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 3:56 pm

[quote="HindleA"]Palmer gets nervous.[/quote

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:03 pm

48. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists

"Taking responsibility to heart and then acting on it is, more often than not, the hardest choice to make.
Just as being authentic sometimes means having to redouble one’s efforts in order to persuade others
of the worth of your conviction when they would rather shout you down.

We left the last post with freedom, responsibility and authenticity..."

- Dr. Jim Walsh
Sunday, 4th Dec, 2016

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:05 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/birmingh ... rther-cuts

Birmingham Faces Further £78million cuts

I don't accept that.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/birmingh ... rther-cuts

Birmingham Faces Further £78million cuts
I don't accept that.

Efficiency savings, gold plated pensions, council war chests, overpaid councilors, excessive bureaucracy. Etc.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:44 pm

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:It seems Michael Rosen has been having similar thoughts on Andy Burnham's comments on immigration today as some here at ftn:

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/ ... l?spref=tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All of us here at ftn, surely?
Anyone going to stand up for AB? Thought not.
Horrid.

If it's not going on and you know it's not going on, isn't it your job as an MP to tell your constituents who have this 'perception' that they've got it wrong?
8. Or is it your job to attach yourself to their coat-tails and indeed to the coattails of UKIP and the Tories and repeat 'immigrants make poor people poorer' (or words to that effect)?

He's right about Burnham, but the traditional Left position on the EU isn't helpful either. McDonnell in his conference speech talked about "concerns" immigrants were being used to drive down wages. And more broadly the Left have talked about the EU as being a big racket against working people. Sure, they have strong anti-racism too, which is all to their credit. But it would be better to be much clearer in the first place- there's tiny effect, if any, on wages of EU immigration.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:45 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/birmingh ... rther-cuts

Birmingham Faces Further £78million cuts
I don't accept that.
Efficiency savings, gold plated pensions, council war chests, overpaid councilors, excessive bureaucracy. Etc.

Diversity officers.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:53 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I don't accept that.
Efficiency savings, gold plated pensions, council war chests, overpaid councilors, excessive bureaucracy. Etc.
Diversity officers.

They just need to do more, with less.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_with_Less" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 4:59 pm

Just caught up with the line up for tonight's question time.

No surprise that Zippy is on again as it seems he is there more than Dimbleby these days but Louise Mensch?

Can anyone give me an indication of the possible BBC justification for having a has been, non entity with very little engagement with mainstream (note mainstream) political activity in the UK on the show. Particularly as her views will only echo most of the nonsense that Farage will spout.

I, for one will not be watching, as I value my health too much but would like to understand if there is any sensible rationale for have both Farage and Mensch on.

Not going to ask/complain to the BBC as I want sensible answers rather that patronising guff.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:00 pm

To their credit, Birmingham have raised council tax by the maximum allowed (1.99%).

Miliband didn't attack the Pickles-imposed council tax capping. Will Corbyn do it? Red Tories Kinnock and Hattersley strongly attacked it in the late 80s.

It isn't easy to attack this policy, but it looks like another piece of triangulation, afraid of the Daily Mail etc. We were told this was a thing of the past.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:03 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: Efficiency savings, gold plated pensions, council war chests, overpaid councilors, excessive bureaucracy. Etc.
Diversity officers.

They just need to do more, with less.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_with_Less" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The private sector does that every single day. or something.

Even if you accept the need for Osborne austerity, the frontloading meant councils and central government didn't have time to prepare for it. Delayed a year, they could have explored lots more pooling with neighbouring authorities, for example.

Funny how Pickles didn't go for the most obvious way of saving money in councils- creating more unitaries. But that would have done away with safe Tory district councils.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:17 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/birmingh ... rther-cuts

Birmingham Faces Further £78million cuts
I don't accept that.
Efficiency savings, gold plated pensions, council war chests, overpaid councilors, excessive bureaucracy. Etc.

Bus service gone

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:19 pm

Greg Lake's Christmas song is my absolute favourite. Makes me cry

They said there'll be snow at Christmas
They said there'll be peace on Earth
But instead it just kept on raining
A veil of tears for the Virgin birth
I remember one Christmas morning
A winters light and a distant choir
And the peal of a bell and that Christmas tree smell
And their eyes full of tinsel and fire
They sold me a dream of Christmas
They sold me a Silent Night
They told me a fairy story
Till I believed in the Israelite
And I believed in Father Christmas
I looked to the sky with excited eyes
Then I woke with a yawn in the first light of dawn
And I saw him and through his disguise

I wish you a hopeful Christmas
I wish you a brave New Year
All anguish pain and sadness
Leave your heart and let your road be clear
They said there'd be snow at Christmas
They said there'll be peace on Earth
Hallelujah, Noel, be it Heaven or Hell
The Christmas we get, we deserve

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:28 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Greg Lake's Christmas song is my absolute favourite. Makes me cry
They said there'll be snow at Christmas
They said there'll be peace on Earth
But instead it just kept on raining
A veil of tears for the Virgin birth
I remember one Christmas morning
A winters light and a distant choir
And the peal of a bell and that Christmas tree smell
And their eyes full of tinsel and fire
They sold me a dream of Christmas
They sold me a Silent Night
They told me a fairy story
Till I believed in the Israelite
And I believed in Father Christmas
I looked to the sky with excited eyes
Then I woke with a yawn in the first light of dawn
And I saw him and through his disguise

I wish you a hopeful Christmas
I wish you a brave New Year
All anguish pain and sadness
Leave your heart and let your road be clear
They said there'd be snow at Christmas
They said there'll be peace on Earth
Hallelujah, Noel, be it Heaven or Hell
The Christmas we get, we deserve

Well, I love Prokofiev's "Lieutenant Kijé" suite. But that's as far as I'm prepared to go on that one!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:34 pm

@PF Although we've agreed on quite a bit over the years, I'm not sure our musical tastes overlap totally

[Remembering a thread about Jerusalem becoming the English national anthem]

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:36 pm

A slow news day here in Huddersfield

Huddersfield News ‏@Examiner · 1m1 minute ago

Woman robbed in Heckmondwike

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:45 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@PF Although we've agreed on quite a bit over the years, I'm not sure our musical tastes overlap totally [Remembering a thread about Jerusalem becoming the English national anthem]

Ha! I nearly mentioned Jerusalem but I didn't want to provoke you . . .

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:45 pm

Trump names fast food entrepreneur hostile to raising the minimum wage to head the Department of Labor.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... mp-cabinet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure this is the fault of the liberal elite somehow.

Well done, poor whites.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 5:49 pm

Court rejects bid to halt Southern train drivers' industrial action (Guardian)

The enemies of the people strike (no pun intended) again.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ial-action

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:07 pm

gilsey wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:Morning, I listened to some of the debate yesterday & think at some stage Keir Starmer asked the minister responsible to confirm that MPs would have the right to vote on whether to accept the article 50 final withdrawal agreement , reason being that MEPs would already be doing so.
Sorry for being vague & think I may have misheard/ misunderstood, but thought that was quite a major concession?
Found some more details in daily express (very,sorry**)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... heresa-May

As MPs debated whether Theresa May should be forced to outline her Brexit strategy before Article 50 negotiations, Labour’s shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer asked Mr Davis to confirm if there will be a parliamentary vote on the final deal.
Mr Davis said: "All I can say is what I have said before which is that is what I expect, simple as that."
When pushed by Labour former frontbencher Chris Bryant to guarantee a vote, Mr Davis said: "If the EU Parliament has a vote, it's inconceivable this House doesn't, simple as that."
But, Tory backbencher Jacob Rees-Mogg asked Mr Davis to confirm whether such a vote would be “merely on the deal” and “could not reverse the fact we have left the EU”.
Mr Davis said: “That is entirely correct.”
Not sure if this is significant or not.

(**Debate also available, here .
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... .0&p=11915)
If MPs don't like the deal, what's the alternative? There isn't one.
At least that's the govt intention, I assume.

I think it might depend on whether article50 process is revocable or not, there's some details here (which I don't understand, but sounds clever)
https://andrewduff.blogactiv.eu/2016/10 ... -vos-jeux/

The EU will be watching closely how the mood of MPs changes, on all sides of the House, during the Article 50 negotiations. But it’s wise to hedge your Brexit bets.
The honest truth is that nobody quite knows where and how the Brexit gamble will end. But then nobody knows quite when, how or why it ever started in the first place.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:09 pm

It's a strange strike. Not that guards should want to strike to maintain their jobs, that's perfectly understandable. But Southern aren't really the source of the problem, even though they're responsible for settling the strike. The driver operated trains have been procured by the government- Southern just run them day to day.

If the government or Network Rail or whoever were running the trains as well, they'd be very reluctant to settle, I think. Among other things, it would need the new trains to be retro-fitted with guard operated doors. Southern at least might worry about their reputation and settle, as happened with Scotrail. The cost of the extra work on the trains won't be paid by them. They're not even paying the costs of the strikes because the government gave them a fixed management fee.

It's a heck of a mess, and the same issue will come up on other lines.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:To their credit, Birmingham have raised council tax by the maximum allowed (1.99%).

Miliband didn't attack the Pickles-imposed council tax capping. Will Corbyn do it? Red Tories Kinnock and Hattersley strongly attacked it in the late 80s.

It isn't easy to attack this policy, but it looks like another piece of triangulation, afraid of the Daily Mail etc. We were told this was a thing of the past.

Who is the actual SC member responsible for this area now?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:18 pm

Teresa Pearce is acting for Grahame Morris.

We might see some movement on it, because of inflation.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:21 pm

PR in local elections would be a good policy, in my view. Would make a lot of councils competitive.

Scottish Labour and the Lib Dems brought that in over a decade ago.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:36 pm

UK food prices to rise without EU workers, warn trade groups

Farmers, supermarkets and food giants flag up labour shortages as essential EU workers go home after Brexit vote or refuse to come due to the fall in sterling (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ade-groups

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:45 pm

I don't think there's much chance of Tory-Kipper farmers being denied workers after Brexit. Which might cause a few ructions in Lincolnshire etc.

I'm trying to keep track of these "special cases". Agriculture, construction, hospitality, the NHS, care workers.

Who are the bad EU immigrants again?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:48 pm

Corbyn stance on EU immigration 'risks helping Ukip'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... t-minister" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jones. Add another to the Burnham, Umunna list.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 6:50 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I don't think there's much chance of Tory-Kipper farmers being denied workers after Brexit. Which might cause a few ructions in Lincolnshire etc.

I'm trying to keep track of these "special cases". Agriculture, construction, hospitality, the NHS, care workers.

Who are the bad EU immigrants again?

Quite.

But it will be ok - wages will double, if not treble, overnight. Problem solved. And think of the health benefits for those who thought that they'd reached retirement age.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 7:04 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Corbyn stance on EU immigration 'risks helping Ukip'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... t-minister" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jones. Add another to the Burnham, Umunna list.

I think to beat off UKIP, you need not only to tell the true, but make the case for EU immigration in the context of business benefits of the Single Market. Corbyn's principled anti-racism makes him support immigration, to his immense credit, but it's frustrating he doesn't go properly for the Single Market because he wants to hand out a few subsidies.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 08 Dec, 2016 7:20 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all. Busy day at school today so not around long.

About yesterday...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and and this.
Truly apocalyptic times we're living through here, people
Rentoul praising Labour front bench
Being cynical, I guess Starmer is his best hope of a future leader at the moment

He has positioned himself well.

I thought him useless, but there we arr, you can discount as appropriate.