Sat 10th and Sun 11th December 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:09 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Raymond Chandler is my hero. Or one of them.

Chandler on a piece of art:
"It was a colour reproduction of something that had never been needed in the first place."

Genius.

I'm a Dashiel Hammett voter, meself.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:09 am

Good morfternoon.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:13 am

Hammet is also good, but Chandler is smoother.
And should you choose to vote otherwise it's fisticuffs at dawn.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:13 am

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:37 am

Here's the same thing in the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... le-50.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supreme-Court-judges-heading-split-decision-Brexit-appeal-frustrating-Remain-MPs-attempts-block-Article-50

Who is releasing this stuff?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:38 am

And a slight win against the Government's wishes to push forward Article 50 without Parliament could put pro-European MPs and peers under pressure to allow the timetable to Brexit to continue.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:45 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I hope Tatchell has a few regrets about yesterday.

Just when Boris should be in the spotlight over the rift with Number 10, the media have got interested in a laughable squirrel that Corbyn is a fan of Putin.

I mean seriously?

Contrary to SH and Tubby, I actually think Corbyn handled the situation reasonably well.

As with so many of Jez's critics, Tatchell doesn't really make clear what he actually thinks we should *do*. There are no "goodies" in the Syrian tragedy and it can be argued that the least bad outcome now is that the government forces wrap things up as soon as possible.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:53 am

News of disability support cuts has reached our local tory-supporting rag.
Disabled man’s fury at DWP decision to remove car after Atos assessment
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.c ... ssessment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

in 1995 he was told he would receive high rate mobility payments for life, and a previous attempt to downgrade his allowance in 2014 was overturned on appeal.

Lower than vermin.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:55 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I hope Tatchell has a few regrets about yesterday.

Just when Boris should be in the spotlight over the rift with Number 10, the media have got interested in a laughable squirrel that Corbyn is a fan of Putin.

I mean seriously?

Stop the War (sic) having no favourable take on Putin?

I mean seriously?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 10:59 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I hope Tatchell has a few regrets about yesterday.

Just when Boris should be in the spotlight over the rift with Number 10, the media have got interested in a laughable squirrel that Corbyn is a fan of Putin.

I mean seriously?
Contrary to SH and Tubby, I actually think Corbyn handled the situation reasonably well.

As with so many of Jez's critics, Tatchell doesn't really make clear what he actually thinks we should *do*. There are no "goodies" in the Syrian tragedy and it can be argued that the least bad outcome now is that the government forces wrap things up as soon as possible.

Quite so.

As with Czechoslovakia, muchh better to have one side quickly win to end all bloodshed.

And there are far worse people than Assad in the world. Just a realist.

Booooooooook

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:00 am

From 3 years ago, but ...

anonymous interviewee wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -if-let-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"It's funny. I am the current public bogeyman – not only am I a migrant, but I am a "banker" (deliberate use of inverted commas) too! Ironically, I can buy financial security by undertaking a job dealing with understanding insecurity and uncertainty. That's a trade I am prepared to make.

The motives of the Brexiteers - creating uncertainty? And the Euro (lost opportunities for dosh made on currency trades) = hatred of Europe?

Just trying to get a handle on eg: Farage's loathing for the project.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:05 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
And a slight win against the Government's wishes to push forward Article 50 without Parliament could put pro-European MPs and peers under pressure to allow the timetable to Brexit to continue.

Like the slight win of the British public on Brexit? Only this time it isn't a vote.
This is really scary. And always comes back to the same thing. British press.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:05 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I hope Tatchell has a few regrets about yesterday.

Just when Boris should be in the spotlight over the rift with Number 10, the media have got interested in a laughable squirrel that Corbyn is a fan of Putin.

I mean seriously?
Stop the War (sic) having no favourable take on Putin?

I mean seriously?

OK persuade me with some evidence that Corbyn is pro-Putin

It's a genuine request. I just can't recall seeing / hearing anything. Remember I'm not a Corbynista, I just want to see fair, accurate analysis.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:06 am

gilsey wrote:News of disability support cuts has reached our local tory-supporting rag.
Disabled man’s fury at DWP decision to remove car after Atos assessment
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.c ... ssessment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
in 1995 he was told he would receive high rate mobility payments for life, and a previous attempt to downgrade his allowance in 2014 was overturned on appeal.
Lower than vermin.

I think this example sets out more clearly than any other I've seen so far how the purpose of PIP is to reduce the amount of help available to people who need it.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:06 am

Daily mail on form this morning

Earlier it had a headline, about Clive lewis,
linking to a short evidence free article, padded out with bits about Peter Tatchell.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eader.html

New low for Corbyn as shadow business secretary and rising star MP who backed his leadership bid plots to take over Labour

Now it's got this(about Dianne Abbot):-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tions.html

You've got 12 months, Jeremy! Now even Corbyn's closest ally admits the clock is ticking on Labour leader after Labour's disastrous by-elections

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:07 am

like a small child that's just discovered stirring.
(or me Dad. his only bad habit, to be fair, but no less irritating for it)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:13 am

Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:News of disability support cuts has reached our local tory-supporting rag.
Disabled man’s fury at DWP decision to remove car after Atos assessment
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.c ... ssessment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
in 1995 he was told he would receive high rate mobility payments for life, and a previous attempt to downgrade his allowance in 2014 was overturned on appeal.
Lower than vermin.
I think this example sets out more clearly than any other I've seen so far how the purpose of PIP is to reduce the amount of help available to people who need it.

They're still looking for the person who needs support most. He's not it.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:14 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You've gotta laugh about it, right?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:35 am

Theresa May trousers row: angry text exchange between Tories revealed (Guardian)

What - no Wallace and Gromit references?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... cky-morgan

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:37 am

The world's largest cold energy storage plant is being commissioned at a site near Manchester.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37902773

Looks promising, but article seems slightly half hearted & gave me impression writer didn't really understand it, or just failed to explain it.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:37 am

A long article, but worth reading.

The Stop the War Coalition is more interested in fighting the West than fighting for Syrians
The Stop the War coalition is betraying Syrians by failing to actively campaign against the war crimes of Assad and Putin. Peter Tatchell, a long-time supporter of the anti-war movement, reveals an organisation that has lost its way

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 61316.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:45 am

Corbyn stands against war full stop. Not against any particular player in a war.

That's a reasonable stand point, though not one everyone agrees with.

To then conclude he is pro-Putin seems to me utterly absurd.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:45 am

AngryAsWell wrote:A long article, but worth reading.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 61316.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes it is - but it was. Thanks.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:50 am

PorFavor wrote:
Theresa May trousers row: angry text exchange between Tories revealed (Guardian)
What - no Wallace and Gromit references?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... cky-morgan

The rants of the unravelling sisterhood of the pants.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:57 am

Leather trousers. On a trip to Germany with a colleague, said colleague, on noting the veritable plethora of leather pants there, claimed understanding of why German cattle might look afraid.

That's all I'm saying.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 12:10 pm

How is it that an entire country cannot take on a handful of newspaper owners. Sickening.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 12:12 pm

Well,indeed PIP was introduced specifically to rid 20 years of case law applicable to DLA and on the basis of 20% reduction "going forward";concurrent with a propaganda campaign of zillions of people,particular the young,pretending to be disabled,and as for "free cars",well.Of course,the Scheme is an option,not suitable for many,removing,reducing amounts also means less income to pay towards any social care support and a myriad of other things.PIP is a proxy for the extra costs.My fear is increasingly,,to push the "double accounting for need"line,replace "by "services",constrict and make available subject to conditions,they already push the possible Access To Work if you've lost access to the use of a car.All this nonsense doesn't save a penny,quite the opposite.False economy and misanthropy.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 12:13 pm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1495 ... _Scotland/

'All Labour policies at next general election will have been rigorously tested to see how they would affect Scotland'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 12:19 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I hope Tatchell has a few regrets about yesterday.

Just when Boris should be in the spotlight over the rift with Number 10, the media have got interested in a laughable squirrel that Corbyn is a fan of Putin.

I mean seriously?
Contrary to SH and Tubby, I actually think Corbyn handled the situation reasonably well.

As with so many of Jez's critics, Tatchell doesn't really make clear what he actually thinks we should *do*. There are no "goodies" in the Syrian tragedy and it can be argued that the least bad outcome now is that the government forces wrap things up as soon as possible.

Quite so.

As with Czechoslovakia, muchh better to have one side quickly win to end all bloodshed.

And there are far worse people than Assad in the world. Just a realist.

Booooooooook

What a pathetic series of straw men. Seriously, you embarrass yourself with it.

I have been fully willing to endorse outside military intervention when it is feasible and has a chance of doing good - I have never had time for the STWC view of the world. There *may* have been a brief window of opportunity at the start of the Syrian uprising, but by the time of the big Commons debate in 2013 that had long passed - the opposition to Assad was now dominated by people who we should have no interest in enabling. Miliband's stance then was both brave and correct.

Labour "moderates" have been fond of invoking Jo Cox's memory since her murder - it may be worth stating, therefore, that a year ago she abstained on the vote on Syrian military action. Maybe because she realised, as somebody who genuinely cared about the welfare of the Syrian people, that there were no good options. The contrast with the opportunistic, principle-free preening of both Cameron and the likes of Benn Jnr is pretty obvious.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 12:50 pm

Boris Johnson Saudi Arabia comments misreported, says Fallon (Guardian)

Do read it. One bit's as bad as another so I haven't "lifted" anything to convey the general drift.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ted-fallon

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 1:27 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Boris Johnson Saudi Arabia comments misreported, says Fallon (Guardian)
Do read it. One bit's as bad as another so I haven't "lifted" anything to convey the general drift.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ted-fallon

It's quite ironic, really, the lengths the government is going to in order to distance itself from what is quite probably the most sensible and insightful thing Boris Johnson has said in a long time.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 1:36 pm

I saw an interview with Andy Burnham, earlier, where the interviewer commented that he (AB) would, if successful in his mayoral bid, be turning his back on "Labour nationally" (presented in a "that'll be a relief for you" sort of way). It was embedded in a longer conversation but I thought it telling that Andy Burnham didn't deny it or attempt to water it down.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 1:40 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tituencies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don’t think the sound of silence means the end of Labour’s war

The 'soft left' strikes back?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 2:09 pm

Good news from Diane Abbott.
She told Andrew Marr ''I'm confident we are going to close the (polling) gap in twelve months.''

She obviously didn't get the memo telling her she had to learn to ignore polls.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 2:22 pm

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaarRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrr
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGgHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 2:43 pm

On Friday, the Guardian reported that Morgan, the former education secretary and leading advocate for a less harsh Brexit, had been cut from a list of moderate Conservative MPs due to meet May at Downing Street...

...However, Morgan had her invitation rescinded after she raised doubts about May’s decision to be photographed in the leather trousers, fellow backbenchers said.

Kids.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 2:46 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
panda cubs

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 2:50 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Theresa May trousers row: angry text exchange between Tories revealed (Guardian)
What - no Wallace and Gromit references?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... cky-morgan
The rants of the unravelling sisterhood of the pants.

Bit surprising that Nicky Morgan, who always seemed a bit of a yes woman when she was at the centre of things, saw fit to break ranks with the rampant sycophancy of the court of Queen Tess of Mayhem. At any rate, she made a valid point that wearing trousers that cost the best part of a grand isn't a good look in austerity Britain. She perhaps feels that now she's been ousted she doesn't have much to lose.

The other striking thing about debacle is the childish spitefulness evidenced by May's chief courtier, ex Sky hack Fiona Hill.

“Don’t bring that woman to Downing Street again,” Hill texted Burt, the paper said.

This prompted an equally furious reply direct to Hill from Morgan: “If you don’t like something I have said or done, please tell me directly,” she wrote. “No man brings me to any meeting. Your team invites me. If you don’t want my views in future meetings you need to tell them.”

Hill’s response in turn was: “Well, he just did. So there!” – seemingly to its ndicate that Burt had, indeed, brought her to the earlier meeting. It was three days later, the Mail reported, that Downing Street staff officially told Morgan that she was not invited to see May.

It's like the country's being run by a clique of bitchy schoolgirls (of both sexes).

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:17 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 54851.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK is most corrupt country in the world, says mafia expert Roberto Saviano
'It’s not the bureaucracy, it’s not the police, it’s not the politics but what is corrupt is the financial capital'

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:27 pm

I doubt I've spent a grand on all clothing during my adult life.Then again I had a panic attack when persuaded,against my better judgement,to get my hair highlighted.An extraordinary procedure where they put a cap with holes in it on your head,yank your hair through the holes and paint them.This was some time ago,procedures may have changed.Oxygen was applied after learning far from criminal charges being applied to the enactors of such torture I had to pay a tenner,which is still some way above what I pay for rare haircuts,today.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:30 pm

HindleA wrote:I doubt I've spent a grand on all clothing during my adult life.Then again I had a panic attack when persuaded,against my better judgement,to get my hair highlighted.An extraordinary procedure where they put a cap with holes in it on your head,yank your hair through the holes and paint them.This was some time ago,procedures may have changed.Oxygen was applied after learning far from criminal charges being applied to the enactors of such torture I had to pay a tenner,which is still some way above what I pay for a haircut,today.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:32 pm

HindleA wrote:I doubt I've spent a grand on all clothing during my adult life.Then again I had a panic attack when persuaded,against my better judgement,to get my hair highlighted.An extraordinary procedure where they put a cap with holes in it on your head,yank your hair through the holes and paint them.This was some time ago,procedures may have changed.Oxygen was applied after learning far from criminal charges being applied to the enactors of such torture I had to pay a tenner,which is still some way above what I pay for a haircut,today.

I imagine several of us would pay to see that.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:36 pm

Re the leather trousers, I have no problem with May wearing expensive clothes for work, Cam's suits probably cost 3x that.
It's the idea that anyone would wear £995 leather trousers and apparently £295 trainers to sit around in their own front room, as I believe it was an informal interview. Not a good look to go with her words.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:46 pm

It was for my brother's wedding.lt seemed to be important to "make an effort" as to appearance.Though like "pigpen" in the Charlie Brown cartoons,at best such efforts are transitory and I revert to "looking a mess"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 3:51 pm

I do buy some,what some would deem expensive items,particularly footwear,but I make them last/they do last and work out cheaper in the long run.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 4:11 pm

trousergate

May has form:

: trousers2003_2016.jpg (88.17 KiB) Viewed 9932 times

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 4:23 pm

China flies nuclear bomber over South China Sea to 'send a message' to Donald Trump
US officials say flight is in response to President-elect’s phone call with Taiwan's leader
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 68021.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This democracy thing is turning out well.
If only, say, electorates were remotely interested in/literate on the issues they were voting on. Say by ensuring high quality education (and therefore life opportunities) as a matter of course.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 4:43 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
China flies nuclear bomber over South China Sea to 'send a message' to Donald Trump
US officials say flight is in response to President-elect’s phone call with Taiwan's leader
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 68021.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This democracy thing is turning out well.
If only, say, electorates were remotely interested in/literate on the issues they were voting on. Say by ensuring high quality education (and therefore life opportunities) as a matter of course.

On a certain level you can't blame the electorate. Do people really think Trump would have won, if not endorsed by the Republican Party? He was presented as a viable candidate. Those responsible for endorsing him are responsible for every mis-step he takes. The vast majority of people who voted for Trump were Republican voters who voted for him because he was the Republican candidate. I think that gets a bit lost, sometimes. The Republican party can't be allowed to distance themselves from him, everything Trump does will be the work of the Republican party, not a maverick "outsider".

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 4:57 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:trousergate

May has form:
trousers2003_2016.jpg

May's fashion sense is an expensive and sanitised designer version of the edgy styles of the late 70s, when she was in her late teens/early 20s. Hence the penchant for leather, leopard print shoes and asymmetric necklines. However back in the day she was still very much a daughter of the vicarage and probably never wore anything like that. Since then she's been indulging all her frustrated fashion choices. It's just consumerism, it's extremely expensive and all about status.

Of course she wouldn't have had much empathy with the spirit of punk.

There's no future ... in England's dreaming

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 5:18 pm

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:trousergate

May has form:
trousers2003_2016.jpg
May's fashion sense is an expensive and sanitised designer version of the edgy styles of the late 70s, when she was in her late teens/early 20s. Hence the penchant for leather, leopard print shoes and asymmetric necklines. However back in the day she was still very much a daughter of the vicarage and probably never wore anything like that. Since then she's been indulging all her frustrated fashion choices. It's just consumerism, it's extremely expensive and all about status.

Of course she wouldn't have had much empathy with the spirit of punk.

There's no future ... in England's dreaming

That's who she reminds me of! Margot Ledbetter!