Thursday 15th December 2016

Post by **refitman** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 7:10 am

Morning all.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 7:45 am

Morning.

Raab at his (impressive) disingenuous best on Today. Sounded like he was prepping for a combination of Defend The Indefensible and Just A Minute.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -is-warned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eu-politicians-believe-trade-deal-could-take-decade-no-10-is-warned

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:50 am

Morning all.

Apparently we do have swimming for the Y5 class today so I;'ll be popping off there later.

I heard this one on the Today news.

Privatisation of probation service has left public at greater risk – report

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nys-stacey

The public have been left more at risk by the privatisation of the probation service with some offenders not seen for weeks or months and others lost in the system altogether, according to an official watchdog.

In her most critical report yet, Dame Glenys Stacey, the chief inspector of probation, said that a recent inspection of probation work in the north of London found a simple, unacceptable lack of management attention to whether offenders turned up to appointments and whether their offending behaviour was being challenged.

Her inspection report published on Thursday said probation services in north London have deteriorated since a community rehabilitation company took over the supervision of medium- to low-risk offenders in 2014 and was now poorer than any other area that had been inspected this year.

Well. Who'd have thunk it eh?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 9:29 am

Scary.

One Nation senator joins new world order of climate change denial

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nge-denial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still, at least there's no one from the UK that attended. Ah.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 9:30 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Apparently we do have swimming for the Y5 class today so I;'ll be popping off there later.

I heard this one on the Today news.

Privatisation of probation service has left public at greater risk – report

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nys-stacey

The public have been left more at risk by the privatisation of the probation service with some offenders not seen for weeks or months and others lost in the system altogether, according to an official watchdog.

In her most critical report yet, Dame Glenys Stacey, the chief inspector of probation, said that a recent inspection of probation work in the north of London found a simple, unacceptable lack of management attention to whether offenders turned up to appointments and whether their offending behaviour was being challenged.

Her inspection report published on Thursday said probation services in north London have deteriorated since a community rehabilitation company took over the supervision of medium- to low-risk offenders in 2014 and was now poorer than any other area that had been inspected this year.
Well. Who'd have thunk it eh?

That can't be true.

Tories are the best on the economy and law&order. It's a well known fact.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 9:35 am

StephenDolan wrote:Scary.

One Nation senator joins new world order of climate change denial

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nge-denial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still, at least there's no one from the UK that attended. Ah.

Delingpole says climate change is “junk science”

Well I guess he is in a perfect position to be able to judge what with his degree in...er...English.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 9:54 am

@HindleA

Ye'll have had yoorr teeee?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 9:55 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 10:18 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Apparently we do have swimming for the Y5 class today so I;'ll be popping off there later.

Well, stick to the 'bus lane.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 10:28 am

Today, being the release of last summer's primary data would be a good one for Nick Gibb to not say anything.

DfE ‏@educationgovuk 4m4 minutes ago

.@NickGibbMP: Today’s results show that primary schools are rising to the heightened challenge posed by our reforms:

Which roughly translates as "the sheer chaos caused by multiple changes to test criteria. Not forgetting the shambles that was the accidental release of 2 test papers."

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 10:59 am

Blinking lefties and their extreme Internet behaviour.

Female MP received death threats for calling for ban on Britain First

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... tain-first" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 11:09 am

Corbyn is to blame.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 11:46 am

This is interesting.

It also rather undermines the image of Theresa May as espoused by Sandi Toksvig, Kate Bush and most of the MSM as so nice, polite and sensible. She sounds like a rude harpy who doesn't have a clue what she's doing and gets very angry when anyone dares ask her any moderately searching questions.

My brawl over Brexit with Prime Minister, Theresa May

Louise Trethowan complained about Brexit to her local MP – Theresa May – and received an invitation to discuss the policy. But the subsequent encounter did not go quite as she expected

When I was granted my 15 minute meeting with my constituency MP – who also happens to be the Prime Minister – I doubt it raised any alarms at Tory HQ.

I am a middle-aged family woman and lifetime Conservative voter – I have no history of political activism or agitation. Although after our meeting, I suspect I may find myself on some kind of blacklist. What is for certain is that I will not be voting for Theresa May ever again.

Things all started when I sent an initial email to her constituency office, expressing my concerns about Brexit. I received a reply from her which said: “We’re going to bang the drum for Britain!”

Yes, it really did say that. I wrote back to say that I considered this a somewhat unsatisfactory response. It was then that she invited me to meet her at her constituency surgery for a quarter of an hour, face-to-face meeting, during her constituency surgery. This is where it all kicked off.

But first, let me tell you why I am so worried about Brexit.

I work in social care but I also own a small bistro on the south coast. The success of my business relies on people having a little bit of extra money to spend on a night out – I fear that Brexit will spark a recession. And it will be completely of our own doing.

I also think it is very sad that our children and the generations to follow them will not have the freedom to live and work inside the EU. I moved to Britain 18 years ago from Australia and it was so cosmopolitan and progressive. Now I fear it is becoming insular.

Mostly though it is the feeling of xenophobia that hangs over Brexit and I think people – especially the Prime Minister – need to do more to tackle that.

Before our meeting, I did my research and gathered as much evidence as I could. After all, I was to have 15 minutes with the most powerful woman in Britain. For me, it was an excellent opportunity to put all my fears – and the concerns of the 48% – to the woman who will lead us towards the Brexit cliff edge. I expected a strong debate. I thought I might get some answers, some clues as to what might happen next. I didn’t think she would be able to make me change my mind – as you can tell, I am pretty passionate on this subject. But I did expect her to try, and I did expect her to present some strong arguments that would counter my own.

I was shown into a room at her Maidenhead constituency office where she was already seated behind a small table. She did not smile or say “hello” - it felt like she was holding court. We did not even shake hands and the whole thing was a bit awkward.

I thanked her for seeing me and then asked if she had seen my email or whether she would like me to make my points again. She said she would like to hear what I had to say.

To make a point about how narrow the referendum question was I produced a copy of the ballot paper. “Where on here does it say we were voting to reduce the number of EU citizens in the UK?” I asked.

“Well it doesn’t,” she replied. “But the government has reports that the level of immigration is a concern.” I asked for proof which she couldn’t provide.

I swiftly moved on producing an info-graphic showing that EU workers added more to the economy than they cost. She didn’t like this and I could feel her start to get agitated. The mood changed quite quickly – there was an added aggression.

She emphasised, not just strongly but crossly, that “the British people have voted for Brexit and the government is committed to making it happen”. Then she started pointing at my face across the narrow desk.

I moved backwards slightly and to be honest, I was shocked. I had set out to tackle the Prime Minister but I hadn’t expected she would lose her temper and jab her finger at me.

Although taken aback I calmly asked her to stop pointing at my face because I considered it rude. I didn’t feel threatened. I was just astonished that she got so rattled, so quickly. She was very defensive.

She then told me “people point at me all the time,” which is hardly an excuse. I asked her again to stop and after that she put her hands beneath the desk – maybe to stop her from pointing again.

I was determined to carry on asking my questions and pressing her for answers so I showed her a pie chart with voting numbers showing that only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit, which was not the majority of British people. She didn’t really have an answer for that in my opinion. She simply began to spout agreed media soundbites which say very little.

At one point I said “you’re not listening to me” and she replied: “I am listening, but I am just not saying what you want to hear.” It wasn’t long before she was looking over my shoulder and hoping for the next person I think.

We did then speak about my personal concerns around the vote to leave the EU. I emphasised my concerns about the increased costs of food and wine for my bistro following the fall in the value of the pound. She started talking about exports, but I replied that I couldn’t export our steak and frites. I needed assurances from the Prime Minister, “we will ensure a strong economy” was all she could say.

She did offer me some more spin though: “We’re going to get the best deal.” I replied: “That’s a hope, not an action.”

I gave the analogy that the Brexit “best deal” rhetoric was like me saying I want the “best holiday” without knowing where I was going, how much it would cost, how I’d get there or where I’d stay. Guess what? She replied that the government would not give details of their negotiations.

I reminded her that Donald Tusk, President of the EU Council, said there would be either “hard Brexit or no Brexit” and I was inclined to agree. Mrs May’s response: “I am sure I have more experience in negotiating in Europe than you do!” Mine: “I don’t think arrogance is helpful.”

By this point I knew we’d probably never be friends. I asked her that given Maidenhead had voted overwhelmingly for Remain, would she vote against Brexit should she lose in the Supreme Court case? She replied that she was a representative and not a “delegate” and was not obliged to be the voice of her constituents.

I told her the people of Maidenhead may find this interesting in the next election. She said anyone who didn’t understand this didn’t understand the role of an MP. I said I thought there were many who didn’t understand this.

Time was up. I finished by telling her there was a huge groundswell of opposition to Brexit. But I don’t think she’s listening.

The meeting did not leave me feeling any better about the process – in fact I am far more concerned now. If the Prime Minister is so easily angered how on earth is she going to be the best negotiator for Brexit? I fear she will lose her temper and start jabbing her finger at people.

She seemed petulant, defensive, tired and rattled.

One positive to come out of it all, though, has been the reaction to it. I first wrote a shorter account of my meeting on the Right2Remain website where it caused a bit of a storm. Since appearing there, it has been seen by more than 175,000 people, shared thousands of times and liked or retweeted thousands more.

Alastair Campbell, former spin doctor to Tony Blair, wrote on Twitter: “This is absolutely brilliant. If only our MPs could do as good a job as this at taking on the non Brexit strategy.” And, later: “There is a month of PMQs in here”.

Of course, there has been some criticism. Some say that MPs’ surgeries should be for constituency matters, not politics. But I would argue that there is no greater issue threatening our constituency – and every other. Mrs May’s former colleague, the ex-Tory MP Louise Mensch got involved, writing an online article in support of the Prime Minister and attacking me – or “Random Australian punter”, as I was called. Ms Mensch dissected every line of my piece and added her own rebukes.

But I think she missed the point. It is the Prime Minister whose views need dissecting, not mine. That is what my encounter was all about: finding out what she has to say about Brexit. I was able to put questions to her in a way that no journalist or opposition politicians have managed to do.

What is so frustrating is that she has so little to say in response.

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-sto ... _1_4807899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 12:14 pm

Kate Bush is just an ingenue who understands little about politics, but I have never liked Toksvig. Overwhelmingly smug pseudo-liberal.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 12:32 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Today, being the release of last summer's primary data would be a good one for Nick Gibb to not say anything.

DfE ‏@educationgovuk 4m4 minutes ago

.@NickGibbMP: Today’s results show that primary schools are rising to the heightened challenge posed by our reforms:
Which roughly translates as "the sheer chaos caused by multiple changes to test criteria. Not forgetting the shambles that was the accidental release of 2 test papers."

They're odd results. Some huge falls and surprisingly few below the floor.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:21 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nick-clegg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

brexit-transitional-deal-is-an-obvious-inevitability-says-nick-clegg

In the past I would have said that because Clegg said it would happen ut was bound not to. But on this occasion....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:37 pm

Just read that the BBC will not be giving the Green party airtime for general election broadcasting.
They'll still get local election time. More time for Ukip no doubt.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:44 pm

I would certainly question the reasoning behind that. I hope the Greens will kick up a fuss about it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:50 pm

Transition deal is a red rag to Tory Kippers. If Labour gets its act together by then, with a new leader, it could do well.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:52 pm

Double take....was reading quickly while eating....it is non-election broadcasts they won't get.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:53 pm

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:56 pm

I suppose it could be viewed as a test of whether we now consider SF a "legitimate" organisation or not? They are, after all, a party of government these days.......

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 1:57 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nick-clegg

brexit-transitional-deal-is-an-obvious-inevitability-says-nick-clegg

In the past I would have said that because Clegg said it would happen ut was bound not to. But on this occasion....

Clegg looking as if he's been crying in the accompanying photo.

I wonder if he ever reflects on how his destruction of LibDem credibility, plus his obsessive hatred and smearing of Labour, played a significant role in helping Cameron win his wafer thin majority - which ultimately led us to Brexit.

Twat.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 2:19 pm

Theresa no mates...

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 2:36 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ipcc-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Met chief gave misleading Hillsborough account, IPCC finds
Watchdog finds Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe not guilty of misconduct despite finding he made false claim about giving evidence

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 3:01 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Transition deal is a red rag to Tory Kippers. If Labour gets its act together by then, with a new leader, it could do well.

The last thing Labour needs now is another leadership challenge IMO.

Let's just lay into the Tories.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 5:18 pm

Looks like your raising the spectre of Labour leadership change killed the thread, Tubby

Anybody there??

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 5:19 pm

It's getting quiet. Must be nearly Christmas. Are we doing any FTN awards this year?

We finally seemed to have weaned ourselves off the Guardian, so I'm not sure the Groan Awards have as much resonance.

Thoughts?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 5:34 pm

I'm at work.This is an automated response.FWIW still read Guardian online,particularly Society pages but rarely comment.This post will self destruct in sixty seconds.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 5:41 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Thoughts?

Very rarely.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 6:00 pm

I may get the bus tomorrow,rather than walk the five miles and a half there and back.Only thought I can muster,I am afraid.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 6:03 pm

Fortnum & Mason aims to cut basic pay for more staff in bid to reduce tax bill

Queen’s grocer seeks to move Heathrow bar workers to ‘tronc’ system that gives them a share of tips

An illustration of the changes sent to a staff member and passed to the Guardian indicates they would receive a near 11% cut in basic pay, taking them down to the national minimum wage of £7.20 an hour which would then be replaced by a minimum share from the service charge.

However, the letter does not make clear what proportion of the total service charge paid voluntarily by customers will be allotted to the workers, Fortnum’s or a company called WMT Troncmaster Services that will run the tronc system. It also makes clear that the illustrated payments are not guaranteed. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -bar-tronc

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 6:15 pm

FWIW we used to have an arrangement of collecting and dispersing food among the homeless with F & M.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 6:19 pm

Hello.

Anyone else remember that edition of This Week (during the Cat Reilly case against Poundland) when this absolute bellend, with an extraordinarily famous and rich father who definitely didn't give him any sort of inherent advantages in life, did a slot advocating free work experience, to the refrain of the Jam singing "What you give is what you get"?

Could you imagine thinking him to be any bigger a cock-end?

Well, if not... think again.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 6:32 pm

Councils angry at government's social care offer (BBC News website)

Seems like no-one is impressed by Sajid Javid's recycling effort.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38319342

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 6:51 pm

Pupil data shared with Home Office to 'create hostile environment' for illegal migrants

Department for Education has agreement to share information of up to 1,500 children a month with Home Office (Guardian)

Makes you feel proud to be British.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... l-migrants

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 7:09 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ideo-shows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chris Grayling sent cyclist flying with his car door, video shows
Film shows transport secretary knocking Jaiqi Liu over in an incident that left rider in a state of shock by the roadside

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 7:10 pm

Grayling was once in the SDP, you know.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 7:51 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ideo-shows

Chris Grayling sent cyclist flying with his car door, video shows
Film shows transport secretary knocking Jaiqi Liu over in an incident that left rider in a state of shock by the roadside

Remember the fuss made over Ed Balls hitting a car? I'd say hitting a cyclist is a bigger deal. Maybe that's just me.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:05 pm

http://npi.org.uk/publications/council- ... x-arrears/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have cuts to Council Tax Support in England led to rising council tax arrears?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:08 pm

Dooring as an offence
Rule 239 of the Highway Code states that motorists “MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for Cyclists or other traffic.” The Highway Code serves as guidance only, and non compliance with a rule of the Highway Code is not an offence. However, s.42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence to open “any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person.”

It is worth noting that it is an offence to simply endanger a person (for example if they have to swerve to avoid a crash). There does not have to be a collision. The offence is not limited to drivers, so a passenger who injures or endangers a cyclist by opening a car door also commits the offence.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:25 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ideo-shows

Chris Grayling sent cyclist flying with his car door, video shows
Film shows transport secretary knocking Jaiqi Liu over in an incident that left rider in a state of shock by the roadside
Remember the fuss made over Ed Balls hitting a car? I'd say hitting a cyclist is a bigger deal. Maybe that's just me.

And some traffic incident relating to Harriet Harman although she was more cavalier towards the event than Ed Balls (although not as cavalier as Chris Grayling). I can't remember the details, but the press attention seemed to last for days. No injuries involved in either, though, if I remember rightly.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... melessness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More than 2,500 children unlawfully housed in B&Bs
Homelessness statistics show 24% increase in households with children residing in B&Bs for longer than six weeks in England

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:42 pm

Evening all.
USA seems to have the right angle on Garage

Maine Voices: Mainers should shun reviled Briton who campaigned for Brexit
Citing animosity and fears for his family's safety, Nigel Farage says he is considering making a move to Maine.

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/12/13/m ... or-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:44 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Transition deal is a red rag to Tory Kippers. If Labour gets its act together by then, with a new leader, it could do well.
The last thing Labour needs now is another leadership challenge IMO.

Let's just lay into the Tories.

Jez isn't up to exploiting Brexit. He's doing decent work on bread and butter spending but Brexit dwarfs that. He needs to walk in the longer term.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:53 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Transition deal is a red rag to Tory Kippers. If Labour gets its act together by then, with a new leader, it could do well.
The last thing Labour needs now is another leadership challenge IMO.

Let's just lay into the Tories.
Jez isn't up to exploiting Brexit. He's doing decent work on bread and butter spending but Brexit dwarfs that. He needs to walk in the longer term.

To be replaced by whom?
Sorry tubby, it's a bad idea.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:55 pm

BBC Question Time Staff Reminded Of Impartiality Rules After Producer’s Britain First Posts Revealed
The corporation told HuffPost UK staff have been reminded of impartiality rules.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/b ... db8c11add0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 8:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Transition deal is a red rag to Tory Kippers. If Labour gets its act together by then, with a new leader, it could do well.
The last thing Labour needs now is another leadership challenge IMO.

Let's just lay into the Tories.
Jez isn't up to exploiting Brexit. He's doing decent work on bread and butter spending but Brexit dwarfs that. He needs to walk in the longer term.

IMO he's appointed some pretty competent performers to do it for him in Starmer & Thornberry.

Let's just get on with it.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 15 Dec, 2016 9:20 pm

Reap what you sow..

Brexit hits Pink wafer maker Rivington Biscuits as it goes into administration cutting 100 jobs
Administrator FRP Advisory said a ‘sustained deterioration’ since the vote had caused problems at the Wigan-based company

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 76881.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;