Monday 19th December 2016

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 6:59 am

Morning all.

Bloody leftie metropolitan elite.

£1.8bn earmarked for Thames Estuary flood defences - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38343063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, it was posted tongue in cheek, I can understand why such sums should be paid. Add it to the list of what'd be the backlash from the usual media outlets if this was taking place under a Labour government (NHS strikes, prison riots, all important immigration numbers soaring, suicide rates soaring, hate crimes soaring, train chaos, etc etc etc) Not so understanding of why sums aren't being paid to assist large areas of Leeds for example.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:29 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38363206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First Minister Arlene Foster faces a vote of no confidence at the Assembly later over her involvement in a botched heating scheme.
The ministerial exclusion motion was tabled by SDLP and has the backing of the UUP, the Alliance Party, Green Party, TUV and People Before Profit.
Sinn Féin want to Mrs Foster to step aside while an investigation undertaken by an independent judicial figure appointed by the Attorney General.
The DUP support an investigation.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:47 am

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/scandal-of ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scandal of Bristol family facing a homeless New Year for the 'greed' of an extra £150 a month

What was that Theresa May was saying about how she was going to help the "JAMs"? Not much sign of that yet.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:49 am

Apparently Zsa Zsa Gabor and Katie Hopkins are both trending on Twitter!

Gabor has died. I daren't look at what Hopkins has been up to....

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:52 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Apparently Zsa Zsa Gabor and Katie Hopkins are both trending on Twitter!

Gabor has died. I daren't look at what Hopkins has been up to....

Ooh, yes, you really must look!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:53 am

Ooh humble pie from Hopkins

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article ... ology.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The-Mahmood-family-apology

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:53 am

Snap Roger

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 10:08 am

Strictly speaking its from the paper who employs her, not Hopkins personally

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 10:45 am

There can be no new grammar schools before 2020 election, insiders warn

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/edu ... -election/

Government officials do not believe it will be possible to open the first entirely new grammar school in 50 years before the next general election, potentially scuppering Theresa May’s flagship schools policy, i understands.

The prime minister has vowed to lift the near 20-year ban on grammar schools, pledging in the autumn to open the first new grammars in half a century as part of her drive to boost social mobility in England.

But according to well-placed sources, a combination of legislative hurdles, hostility within the House of Lords towards the policy and, crucially, challenges around school admissions cycles means the government will fail to open a new grammar school before May 2020.

‘Loggerheads’
One source said civil servants charged with implementing the policy are at loggerheads with Downing Street as to whether a new grammar can be open and accepting pupils before the end of this Parliament.

“Number 10 are determined to open one by September 2019 but the Department for Education is not convinced it’s possible,” a former government official told i.

i.e. with Nick Timothy.

Judging by his utterances when director of the NSN, evidence never seemed to bother him so I doubt the results of the consultation will either.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 10:52 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Strictly speaking its from the paper who employs her, not Hopkins personally

She did Tweet the link herself with 'Mahmoud Family an Apology'.

Some people have pointed out that doing that at 2.00 am Sunday night UK time was an interesting choice

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 11:52 am

Good morfternoon.

In an article for the Daily Mail, Iain Smith says -

"In the longer term, the Government must think hard about legislating to do two things.

First, those engaged in the delivery of a public service should have an obligation to provide sufficient services that the public do not have their lives disrupted as horribly as all the passengers at the end of their tether on Southern." (Politics Live, Guardian)

You'd be forgiven for thinking that he's talking about Southern Rail here. But of course, he's talking about their employees.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 12:42 pm

I think Italy has a legal minimum service for some services. It's not a bad idea in itself, but you'd need to change the balance of union powers too.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 12:51 pm

How many minutes in are we expecting it'll take Fallon to reference Iraq/dodgy dossier/Blair?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 1:01 pm

I note that there is some sneering and guffawing in the usual places at Sadiq Khan hiring Peter Mandelson to advise on Brexit.

I mean, what on earth would a former EU Trade Commissioner know about it anyway...oh...wait...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 1:08 pm

MP Angela Eagle, who challenged Mr Corbyn’s leadership this summer, admitted it had been “a bad year” for the party.

“We will be glad when this year’s over, let’s put it that way,” she told the BBC:

“We have to hope that we can begin to remake our appeal to the electorate. It’s no good denying that we’ve had a bad year.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vo ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 1:14 pm

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/j ... g-workers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

James O'Brien making a very astute observation that strikes have already been banned within the prison service. And how's that working out in terms of putting pressure on private companies to provide safe and effective public services?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 1:22 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
MP Angela Eagle, who challenged Mr Corbyn’s leadership this summer, admitted it had been “a bad year” for the party.

“We will be glad when this year’s over, let’s put it that way,” she told the BBC:

“We have to hope that we can begin to remake our appeal to the electorate. It’s no good denying that we’ve had a bad year.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vo ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hopefully she admits that blame should be shared for that?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 2:03 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 3:30 pm

17? Are we headed for a record low point?

Where are the highlights of 19th December 2015?

I need to know!

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 3:31 pm

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... ou-so.html

[UPDATE 1215 hours: Press Gazette has now confirmed that the amount of damages paid by Mail Online was £150,000. As the claimants retained the services of Carter, Ruck it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the total amount they had to pay out was well over twice that amount.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 3:53 pm

StephenDolan wrote:17? Are we headed for a record low point?

Where are the highlights of 19th December 2015?

I need to know!

This morning...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 3:54 pm

Of course, there is nothing stopping at least one or two of those "guests" from signing up and dropping in

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:00 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:17? Are we headed for a record low point?

Where are the highlights of 19th December 2015?

I need to know!
This morning...

Ah! wonderful...it's a relief to just chat with friends.
My head aches
I've got coffee on
How many cream? Sugar?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Of course, there is nothing stopping at least one or two of those "guests" from signing up and dropping in

I've offered refreshments. Let's have some wholesome waves of wit, guest friends! Love to hear from you.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:14 pm

Another 7 posts JA and we can celebrate your 10,000th

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:17 pm

Sad to hear of Lionel Blue's death. He always seemed a thoroughly decent man. Here's a 'Though for the Day' from 2012

Thought for the Day - Rabbi Lionel Blue

While spring cleaning, I found a packet of postcards I'd sent to my parents from Holland just after the second world war. To my surprise I'd forgotten how grey wartime food was. At the end even potatoes and bread were rationed. We dined on snoek. But in Holland, I wrote frenziedly, real cream oozed out of cakes, and sandwiches overflowed with meat. And with an exchange rate of ten guilders to the pound, living was cheap. 8 bob a day covered my youth hostel, cigarettes and chips. I couldn’t afford dances or cinemas and I wasn’t allowed in sex shop being too young. So I mooched around looking for freebies which is how I fell from heaven into hell.

Along a well built street I noticed a ruined facade. A faded notice said Hollandsche Schouwburg - Dutch Theatre- but there were no programmes. I tried a door, it opened and in the gaunt roofless theatre, an English notice among bunches of sodden flowers said this was the collecting place of men women and children awaiting deportation to the death camps. Their sufferings it said were indescribable. I sat down and wept.

Back at the youth hostel the students comforted me.
There was light ahead, they said. Schuman. Monnet and Adenauer were starting an iron and steel community, to make future Franco-German wars impossible. It was indeed the first step towards the present European Union.

But now I’m frightened. I see the same signs that accompanied the end of the Weimar republic and the rise of the dictators. Currencies in trouble. Swastikas at football matches. Massacre at Srebrenica. The search for scapegoats, the rise of media demagoguery. Loving ourselves but not our neighbours as ourselves. The endemic problems of European tribalism, economic and spiritual. Heaven and hell are very close, and the devil is in the detail. To finish on a foody spiritual note - here’s a saying from Lao Tse a Chinese prime minister of long ago who became a contemplative hermit in his old age, unintentionally founding a new religion.

‘Govern a state as you would make an omelette’ he said-‘with care.’ I’ve never personally succeeded with omelettes so I can’t help there. Mine broke up into scrambled egg which with a dollop of Jam is truly gorgeous. Sometimes if you’re lucky or if you pray hard enough, failure can turn into success. May it be so with Europe!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:21 pm

Donald Trump will violate the US constitution on inauguration day
Because of the emoluments clause, the electoral college would be fully justified in concluding that he is unsuited to the presidency

Carl M Loeb
University Professor and Professor of Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ration-day" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Because Trump would take office in blatant violation of the constitution, the electoral college would be fully justified
in concluding that he is unsuited to the presidency. As Justice Robert Jackson wrote 64 years ago, electors must be
considered free to vote their conscience.

If Trump deliberately declines to cure his continuing violation of the emoluments clause upon entering office,
Congress has both power and responsibility to enforce the constitution. It would be well within its rights to
impeach and remove him for engaging in “high crimes and misdemeanors”."

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:27 pm

RIP Lily Jayne Summers.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:29 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Donald Trump will violate the US constitution on inauguration day
Because of the emoluments clause, the electoral college would be fully justified in concluding that he is unsuited to the presidency

Carl M Loeb
University Professor and Professor of Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ration-day" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Because Trump would take office in blatant violation of the constitution, the electoral college would be fully justified
in concluding that he is unsuited to the presidency. As Justice Robert Jackson wrote 64 years ago, electors must be
considered free to vote their conscience.

If Trump deliberately declines to cure his continuing violation of the emoluments clause upon entering office,
Congress has both power and responsibility to enforce the constitution. It would be well within its rights to
impeach and remove him for engaging in “high crimes and misdemeanors”."

But do they have to declare him unsuitable is the question I can't find the answer to.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 4:36 pm

Oh dear me...

The Independent Verified account
‏@Independent

Russian ambassador to Turkey shot in Ankara http://ind.pn/2hAnJao" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If anything, it gets worse...

Diego Cupolo
‏@DiegoCupolo

Gunman reportedly said, "We'll make you pay for #Aleppo" before shooting Russian Ambassador in #Ankara art gallery. Story developing #Turkey

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 5:01 pm

Austrian far right signs deal with Putin's party, touts Trump ties

http://in.reuters.com/article/austria-f ... NKBN1481LN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 5:05 pm

Oh my.

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 6m6 minutes ago

BREAKING: Russian ambassador to Turkey dies of gunshot wound - Russian media

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 5:32 pm

I don't know if I put this up before. But the Croxley Rail Link (SW Hertfordshire to Watford) looks like it's being slowly dropped amid the usual rising costs. London Underground are on the hook for these costs, thanks to the generosity of a certain recent mayor, and aren't too keen. Not least because it doesn't seem to be all that beneficial to London even if the track would be an extension to the Undeground.

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2016 ... rail-link/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's pretty detailed, as always from this site. The mods usually delete people making party political points, so this (from one of the sites main writers) is very striking:

My reading of the recent history has been that the decision to “proceed” was essentially part of a political decision package put together by George Osborne to ensure key areas (with marginal seats) got some nice pressies before the 2015 election. Mayor Johnson just happened to have the means to help out given the mess that Herts CC had got the project into. Therefore he effectively did a deal with the former Chancellor to “rescue” Croxley Rail Link and to fill in the funding situation so the local Watford MP could go “ta da, I rescued the Croxley Rail Link”. This explains the “unusual” use of the Growth Fund. I note the deft wording from Mr Jones’ statement that North West London is a beneficiary of the scheme when previously it was all about Watford.

It's one of those schemes that are nice rather than essential, and Watford's connections are pretty good anyway. In fairness, Hertfordshire County Council were putting up a lot of the money (couldn't they buy out some PFIs or something?) but even so.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 5:45 pm

Watford could be an interesting seat in 2020. Quite a big Tory lead, with Labour second and the Lib Dems collapsing in to third. It was virtually 50-50 in the referendum, and the Lib Dems have won the mayoralty 4 times.

Commuter seats could be feeling the heat by then, and some collapsing transport projects might not help either. Might need some kind of Lib-Lab pact though.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 6:05 pm

Nice clip of John Harvey Jones from TV Eye.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

People have lived better in the last ten years (under Thatcher) but "so they should". Because we've spent all the North Sea Oil and privatization proceeds. "Fools paradise".

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 6:15 pm

May refused to rule out the UK paying money to the EU after it left. The Conservative MP Philip Davies challenged her to promise not to pay the EU any more money after Brexit, saying that contributing to the EU budget like this would amount to “betraying what people voted for”. But May refused to give that assurance.

Amazing how many questions there were on the ballot, isn't it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 6:16 pm

Henry Smith, a Conservative, asks if any EU leaders said they did not want to continue trading with the UK.

May says the leaders she has met all seem keen to keep trading with the UK.

Henry sounds a bright spark.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 6:18 pm

Ha ha ha ha.

John Whittingdale, the Conservative former culture secretary, says 10,000 Ukrainian servicemen have been killed since the start of the conflict there.

May says the government is looking at what more it can do. It is important to put the pressure of the EU behind this.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 7:46 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Watford could be an interesting seat in 2020. Quite a big Tory lead, with Labour second and the Lib Dems collapsing in to third. It was virtually 50-50 in the referendum, and the Lib Dems have won the mayoralty 4 times.

Commuter seats could be feeling the heat by then, and some collapsing transport projects might not help either. Might need some kind of Lib-Lab pact though.

Fear of Corbyn will keep seats like that safely Tory.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 7:56 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Watford could be an interesting seat in 2020. Quite a big Tory lead, with Labour second and the Lib Dems collapsing in to third. It was virtually 50-50 in the referendum, and the Lib Dems have won the mayoralty 4 times.

Commuter seats could be feeling the heat by then, and some collapsing transport projects might not help either. Might need some kind of Lib-Lab pact though.

Fear of Corbyn will keep seats like that safely Tory.

I'm assuming he's retired by then. I'm not having a pop at him in saying that, I think he's got self-awareness. And I'm glad there's not a Kipperish leader now, so I give him credit.

But otherwise, "vote Farron, get Corbyn" will be very powerful.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:01 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Watford could be an interesting seat in 2020. Quite a big Tory lead, with Labour second and the Lib Dems collapsing in to third. It was virtually 50-50 in the referendum, and the Lib Dems have won the mayoralty 4 times.

Commuter seats could be feeling the heat by then, and some collapsing transport projects might not help either. Might need some kind of Lib-Lab pact though.

Fear of Corbyn will keep seats like that safely Tory.
I'm assuming he's retired by then. I'm not having a pop at him in saying that, I think he's got self-awareness. And I'm glad there's not a Kipperish leader now, so I give him credit.

But otherwise, "vote Farron, get Corbyn" will be very powerful.

Yes, that view has long been AKs.

I think it far fetched he'll quit. 2016 proved that.

If the agenda really were winning in 2020 then he'd have quit after Ed Miluband and 80 percent of the PLP declared their lack of confidence. He isn't an ordinary leader of a UK party.

His health is good.

Corbyn and especially McDonnell are not quitters. You don't spend 40 years in the wilderness, win, and then quit.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:06 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Fear of Corbyn will keep seats like that safely Tory.
I'm assuming he's retired by then. I'm not having a pop at him in saying that, I think he's got self-awareness. And I'm glad there's not a Kipperish leader now, so I give him credit.

But otherwise, "vote Farron, get Corbyn" will be very powerful.
Yes, that view has long been AKs.

I think it far fetched he'll quit. 2016 proved that.

If the agenda really were winning in 2020 then he'd have quit after Ed Miluband and 80 percent of the PLP declared their lack of confidence. He isn't an ordinary leader of a UK party.

His health is good.

Corbyn and especially McDonnell are not quitters. You don't spend 40 years in the wilderness, win, and then quit.

That could depend on events and also on succession.

Surely Corbyn's mission was to draw a line under New Labour and restore, as he sees it, Labour's socialist credentials. If he was relatively confident that was secure....

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:08 pm

2016 proved he'll go in his time.

I don't think he's as secure as he looks in the longer term anyway. If Unite get a better offer, they'll jump. I reckon they got a deal on the nukes policy last time.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:38 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -liz-truss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

G4S must pay for cost of Birmingham prison riot, says Liz Truss

It wouldn't surprise me if she was talking rubbish here. They could have been doing the contracted stuff but taken their eye off other issues.

And anyway, other prisons are just as bad!

Liz Truss told MPs that insufficient staffing levels, a rise in new psychoactive drugs, gangs and bullying lay at the root of the Birmingham riot, adding they were common problems across public and private prisons

Psychoactive drugs cause riots?!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:51 pm

More rail, from a couple of days ago.

https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2016/12 ... build.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NEW trains are to be built for the Merseyrail network by Stadler of Switzerland, as part of a programme costing £460 million. This headline figure also covers upgrades to the power supply, platforms and track, as well as refurbishment of the depots at Kirkdale and Birkenhead North and future maintenance of the new trains.

Stadler had been shortlisted in January, along with Bombardier, CAF, Mitsui and Siemens, after the tender process was launched in October 2015. At the time the cost of replacing the fleet had been put at £400 million.

The trains, designed specifically for the network, will have no conductors or guards and drivers will control the doors, a feature which has angered the RMT. However, there will be staff on board some trains to help and advise passengers.

The first train is due to be delivered in mid-2019, and the whole fleet is intended to be in service by the end of 2020, replacing a fleet which is almost 40 years old and was becoming increasingly expensive to maintain.

Some way off, but you get the point- the Southern dispute isn't going to be the end of the doors issue.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:51 pm

Elena CresciVerified account
‏@elenacresci
omg NBC used a pic of Ed Miliband blowing his nose as a stock photo for an item on flu

Ed MilibandVerified account
‏@Ed_Miliband
Proud of new role in international health promotion. When America sneezes....#flulabour

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(I do miss him...)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:59 pm

Another attack in Germany, this time a Christmas market, 9 thought dead

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 85431.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:05 pm

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 10:34 pm

NEWSPAPERS TODAY REPORTED ON A BIG ‘ENERGY CRISIS’ THE UK FACES. BUT THEY LEFT OUT ONE VITAL DETAIL…
"So, what group of MPs worked on this report and who endorsed it? It seems, only Grant Shapps.
In fact, the BIG website claims it is a cross-party group of MPs but it doesn’t list any other than Shapps. We’ve asked them to list the other MPs involved.
A few months ago, the BIG released another report, on broadband in the UK. Again it got lots of media coverage. When we asked Shapps’s office, it emerged the report was authored by his ex-staffer Freddie Downing."

The report made a recommendation for the govt to pursue Fracking…

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/12/ ... al-detail/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 10:36 pm

The Hill ‏@thehill 4m4 minutes ago
#BREAKING: Trump surpasses 270 votes to seal Electoral College victory http://hill.cm/OOOT92p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;