Wednesday, 21st December 2016

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:02 pm

Helen Pidd ‏@helenpidd 36s36 seconds ago
Copeland voters rebellious. Ignored Labour to vote 62% leave & last year they elected an independent mayor @MikeStarkie instead of Lab/Tory

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:11 pm

http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/med ... t-britain/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rich world problems are irrelevant across most of the country, but poverty matters throughout Britain

On Friday the ONS, publisher of official statistics, released some “NOT official” statistics on people’s incomes for every local authority in England and Wales.

Based on HMRC records for 2014, PAYE & benefits.
One of the things the author's picked up on is areas with the biggest share of people the ONS couldn't find income data for, self-employed or living off investment income perhaps. Top of the table is Richmondshire, which is not far west of us here, part of Hague's old constituency. It seems quite odd, given that the other 9 in the top ten are in London, Oxford & Cambridge.
Lots of farmers there, and plenty of rich idlers too, but so much more than similar areas?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:14 pm

Graham Jones MP ‏@GrahamJones_MP 20s20 seconds ago
The last time the governing party won a by-election in a seat held by the main opposition party was in the seat of Mitcham & Morden in 1982.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:28 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:LibDems (on twitter) seem to think they are in with a good shot at Jamie's seat. Hard to tell, big vote leave vote.
Any thought AK ?

They are miles and miles off.

Should be a safe Labour win.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:33 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:LibDems (on twitter) seem to think they are in with a good shot at Jamie's seat. Hard to tell, big vote leave vote.
Any thought AK ?
They are miles and miles off.

Should be a safe Labour win.

He only has a 3,833 majority so might not be "in the bag" must depend on who stands, I would think

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:36 pm

Backing far-right Swede, Trump proxy boycotts top Israeli official Delegation cancels meeting with Tzipi Hotovely after Foreign Ministry nixed participation of Kristina Winberg due to her party’s ‘neo-Nazi tendencies’

http://www.timesofisrael.com/backing-sw ... -official/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:39 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:LibDems (on twitter) seem to think they are in with a good shot at Jamie's seat. Hard to tell, big vote leave vote.
Any thought AK ?
They are miles and miles off.

Should be a safe Labour win.
He only has a 3,833 majority so might not be "in the bag" must depend on who stands, I would think

Indeed. Factor in that Reed was the incumbent, could be a genuine 3way.

Ideal outcome - labour win, Ukip second, Tories substantially drop to third.

Cat among the pigeons - Lib Dems increase their share, Ukip slightly up, Labour drop slightly, close Tory win.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:41 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:LibDems (on twitter) seem to think they are in with a good shot at Jamie's seat. Hard to tell, big vote leave vote.
Any thought AK ?
They are miles and miles off.

Should be a safe Labour win.
He only has a 3,833 majority so might not be "in the bag" must depend on who stands, I would think

Over the Tories. the Lib Dems are on next to nothing. Governments don't take by-elections off the opposition, so Labour will win easily. if the Lib Dems were closer they might, but they are miles and miles off.

There must be a fair number of other Labour MPs in the same boat. Poor sods are in the wrong party and need to get out.

He's also got four kids apparently. In a General Election (as opposed to a by-election) the Tories may well take that seat. There was just no point his carrying on. Why put up with the abuse?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:43 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: They are miles and miles off.

Should be a safe Labour win.
He only has a 3,833 majority so might not be "in the bag" must depend on who stands, I would think

Over the Tories. the Lib Dems are on next to nothing. Governments don't take by-elections off the opposition, so Labour will win easily. if the Lib Dems were closer they might, but they are miles and miles off.

There must be a fair number of other Labour MPs in the same boat. Poor sods are in the wrong party and need to get out.

Dear Santa, can you please get SH a new LP for Christmas.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:51 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: He only has a 3,833 majority so might not be "in the bag" must depend on who stands, I would think

Over the Tories. the Lib Dems are on next to nothing. Governments don't take by-elections off the opposition, so Labour will win easily. if the Lib Dems were closer they might, but they are miles and miles off.

There must be a fair number of other Labour MPs in the same boat. Poor sods are in the wrong party and need to get out.
Dear Santa, can you please get SH a new LP for Christmas.

I vote Green.

Although I'd like the Labour government of 1997-2010 to come back, that is never going to happen now.

I thought you'd want the Blairite Quislings to quit?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:55 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:LibDems (on twitter) seem to think they are in with a good shot at Jamie's seat. Hard to tell, big vote leave vote.
Any thought AK ?

Sorry, but that's my best laugh of the day so far. Mindblowingly delusional

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:58 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Over the Tories. the Lib Dems are on next to nothing. Governments don't take by-elections off the opposition, so Labour will win easily. if the Lib Dems were closer they might, but they are miles and miles off.

There must be a fair number of other Labour MPs in the same boat. Poor sods are in the wrong party and need to get out.
Dear Santa, can you please get SH a new LP for Christmas.
I vote Green.

Although I'd like the Labour government of 1997-2010 to come back, that is never going to happen now.

I thought you'd want the Blairite Quislings to quit?

I've never used that phrase, never will. Reed was a bit too eager to head to twitter to make comments against the party for my taste, but all labour MPs are preferable to a tory. His behaviour when the 2015 leadership election drew to a close was annoying at the time. Now with the benefit of hindsight, it's cringe worthy.

Out of interest, how many times have you voted green?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:05 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:05 pm

Remain In EU ‏@remain_eu 12s13 seconds ago
First time in 150 years, India's economy surpasses that of United Kingdom - Brexit preparation is going so well http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... ce=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:05 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:Uncanny, Roger.

Ah but has anyone seen RoT and said semi-regular poster in the same room at the same time?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:06 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: Dear Santa, can you please get SH a new LP for Christmas.
I vote Green.

Although I'd like the Labour government of 1997-2010 to come back, that is never going to happen now.

I thought you'd want the Blairite Quislings to quit?
I've never used that phrase, never will. Reed was a bit too eager to head to twitter to make comments against the party for my taste, but all labour MPs are preferable to a tory. His behaviour when the 2015 leadership election drew to a close was annoying at the time. Now with the benefit of hindsight, it's cringe worthy.

Out of interest, how many times have you voted green?

So far? None. I've voted Labour all my life, save for the 2005 General Election when I voted Lib Dem because of Iraq. I've done doorstepping for Labour in the past too, but I don't belong in a party led by Jeremy Corbyn, and nor does Jamie Reed. Do you really disagree? You don't give that impression.

I think he'll be the first of many who won't stand in 2020. It must be utterly miserable being a Labour MP who wants to be in government.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:10 pm

We are in disarray because we take an us and them stance over relatively minor differences.
Example/s of it here again today. What is it supposed to achieve?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:We are in disarray because we take an us and them stance over relatively minor differences.
Example/s of it here again today. What is it supposed to achieve?

I don't think the differences are minor, no.

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:At least this one will be without the added complexity of the other half's family
Not that they're not wonderful
In their own way
It's just that a holiday's not a holiday
With them

It's a shared global phenomenon, some uncomfortable hours during holidays with family.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:26 pm

Letter of complaint has gone off to IPSO about the fake story of Corbyn "dancing" to the Cenotaph on 11/11.

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/12/ ... ce-sunday/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's the betting IPSO say the papers acted in good faith because it was a 3rd party who edited the photo?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:27 pm

Our big bulk ordered bag of organic haricot beans is labelled 'grown in China'.
When I was growing up in the US, it was common to remind reluctant eaters about starving people in China.
I bet Chinese families have a kid unwilling to eat.
'There are starving people in America who'd be happy to have that!' Chinese mums say.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:29 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:We are in disarray because we take an us and them stance over relatively minor differences.
Example/s of it here again today. What is it supposed to achieve?
I don't think the differences are minor, no.

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I do. Please, chill out.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:34 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Hobiejoe wrote:Uncanny, Roger.
Ah but has anyone seen RoT and said semi-regular poster in the same room at the same time?

Crikey, I was just congratulating RoT on his perspicacity, not making mischievous suggestions of sock-puppetry!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:39 pm

Ah! so Copeland is going in the boundary changes...
Under the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011, every constituency must be within five per cent of the electoral quota, which is 74,769, meaning constituencies must have no fewer than 71,031 electors.

The BCE created the new Workington and Whitehaven constituency for the same reason: Copeland was well below the lower five per cent limit at 60,785. The BCE therefore proposed a coastal constituency containing Workington and Whitehaven, extending from Maryport to the River Mite.

http://www.in-cumbria.com/Cumbria-set-t ... 4a39ef6-ds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:47 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Hobiejoe wrote:Uncanny, Roger.
Ah but has anyone seen RoT and said semi-regular poster in the same room at the same time?
Crikey, I was just congratulating RoT on his perspicacity, not making mischievous suggestions of sock-puppetry!

*rips off Cary Grant mask and reveals...Spinning Hugo!

I would have got away with it if it hadn't been for those pesky ~~kids~~ posters at FTN!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 3:53 pm

citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:We are in disarray because we take an us and them stance over relatively minor differences.
Example/s of it here again today. What is it supposed to achieve?
I don't think the differences are minor, no.

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I do. Please, chill out.

No. There is a world of difference between what I believe and the views of the Stop the War coalition chair, or John McDonnell. For one of many major differences between my views and theirs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2949688.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:13 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: I don't think the differences are minor, no.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I do. Please, chill out.
No. There is a world of difference between what I believe and the views of the Stop the War coalition chair, or John McDonnell. For one of many major differences between my views and theirs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2949688.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay, I'm sorry.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:23 pm

SpinningHugo wrote: No. There is a world of difference between what I believe and the views of the Stop the War coalition chair, or John McDonnell. For one of many major differences between my views and theirs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2949688.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are referring to Corbyn, you know very well that he resigned over a year ago.

Grow up or do us all a favour and go.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:30 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: No. There is a world of difference between what I believe and the views of the Stop the War coalition chair, or John McDonnell. For one of many major differences between my views and theirs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2949688.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you are referring to Corbyn, you know very well that he resigned over a year ago.

Grow up or do us all a favour and go.

He might well have resigned, but he still supports StW and has done nothing to indicate that he no longer shares their anit-west world view.
Indeed he was at the Christmas party again last week

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12 ... r-despite/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:35 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: No. There is a world of difference between what I believe and the views of the Stop the War coalition chair, or John McDonnell. For one of many major differences between my views and theirs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2949688.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you are referring to Corbyn, you know very well that he resigned over a year ago.

Grow up or do us all a favour and go.
He might well have resigned, but he still supports StW and has done nothing to indicate that he no longer shares their anit-west world view.
Indeed he was at the Christmas party again last week

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12 ... r-despite/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe so but referring to him as the STW Coalition Chair is inaccurate and snide.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:36 pm

What's Corbyn's view on nuclear power these days?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:37 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: No. There is a world of difference between what I believe and the views of the Stop the War coalition chair, or John McDonnell. For one of many major differences between my views and theirs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2949688.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you are referring to Corbyn, you know very well that he resigned over a year ago.

Grow up or do us all a favour and go.
He might well have resigned, but he still supports StW and has done nothing to indicate that he no longer shares their anit-west world view.
Indeed he was at the Christmas party again last week

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12 ... r-despite/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At the Xmas party again? Blimey, how many a year do they have?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:39 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:What's Corbyn's view on nuclear power these days?

Energy.
Why Labour is putting energy reform at the heart of its green agenda

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:39 pm

I think Labour are in trouble in this by election. Theresa May is still insanely popular.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:44 pm

''Again'' must refer to the fact that he attended last year's Stop The War Christmas party as well as this year's.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:46 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:What's Corbyn's view on nuclear power these days?
Energy.
Why Labour is putting energy reform at the heart of its green agenda

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does he mention it there?

And I'm afraid I don't think get any impression from that he knows what he's talking about.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:47 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Labour are in trouble in this by election. Theresa May is still insanely popular.

Plus of course it's an unnecessary by-election. Not a self-indulgent one, sure, but unnecessary. And I get the impression Reed had a personal vote prior to 2015.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:49 pm

Seven local council byelections last week:

Powys - the final Welsh contest before next year's nationwide council elections saw an Independent hold in a ward where in 2012 they only just beat the LibDems by a handful of votes in a straight fight (having seen off a sole LibDem opponent rather more easily in 2008 and - especially - 2004) but won much more easily this time, despite their own share dropping just under half. This was due to the fact an intervention by the Tories got them 19 per cent - and obviously hurt the LibDems rather more. A notable exception to their recent upsurge, which as we will see continued elsewhere.......

Fife - SNP hold in a division which split 2Nat/2Lab in 2012, but had (fairly unusually in what was a poor election for the SNP generally here, as the unpopularity of the SNP-run council cost them both control and significant ground) the Nats topping the poll. This was again the case now, but the SNP as well as second placed Labour saw their first preference vote drop and they only narrowly held the seat after transfers. The swing to the SNP from Labour from four years ago was, in fact, only some 1.5% - one of the lowest seen (especially in a Nat/Lab contest) since the GE, and well below some previous vacancies on this authority. As so often recently, the real "winners" in this contest were the Scottish Tories - with a double figure rise to over 18 per cent. Back in 2007 - the result since then actually shows a small SNP to Lab swing, btw - this division also returned a LibDem (their seat went Labour last time) and they also had a bit of a revival, going up 4 points. Greens tried their luck here after sitting the last two elections out, but got less than 2% for their pains.

Taunton Deane DC - LibDem gain from Tory, and on an absolutely colossal swing of 40% (yes, FORTY) per cent. Roughly speaking a 60-20 margin for the Tories last year was more than reversed now as the LibDems scored over 70% - an astonishing turnaround in a ward that has safely returned a Tory for the last three decades, even if the LibDems have usually provided whatever opposition there is. As may be expected with such a result, non-national factors played a part - the winner was a senior LibDem on the council before he unexpectedly lost his seat last year, the defending Tory was very much not a local for whatever reason - but with such a huge shift of opinion there can be little arguing. Independents came second here in this ward's first contest way back in 1987 and polled decently on GE day - but were also crushed under the yellow juggernaut this time, getting just 6%.

Blackburn and Darwen - Labour hold with nearly 60 per cent of the vote, though this was down on earlier this year when they beat the Tories by nearly 3 to 1 in a straight fight. The difference this time is that UKIP stood and duly took second place, though this is where things get interesting - as UKIP may have sat the last contest out but stood here last year and did very decently indeed, taking a third of the vote and restricting the Labour winner to under half; the UKIP to Labour swing since then is almost exactly 10 per cent. And whilst that was the only previous time UKIP were on the ballot paper, this ward had a significant right-of-Tory presence in the past - the BNP scored 30% in 2006 and still had 20% in 2010 before their nationwide collapse (in actual fact the only time Labour have failed to win here was the original all-outs in 2004, when the LibDems took one of the three seats - but they lost it in 2007 and haven't been seen since) Tories duly pushed into third, down about 10% since May and also a decline since GE day.

St Edmundsbury DC - Independent gain from Tory with over half the vote - the winner here was first returned as a Labour councillor in 2003 (when this ward split 2Tory/1Lab - though the Tories only put up 2 candidates for a three member ward) and was then re-elected as an Independent (and again the sole non-Tory councillor) in 2007 and 2011 - topping the poll both times - before unexpectedly losing on GE day and giving the Tories a monopoly here for the first time (though not, of course, for that long) The swing from Tory to Independent since last year was over 20% and almost a direct switch - LibDems stood for the first time since 2007 and came a distant third with 10%, ahead of Labour who also saw a double figure drop from their 2015 share. UKIP last with less than 5% in their first showing here at this level.

Teignbridge DC - two contests here saw identical results - LibDems gain from Tory. The first vacancy saw a 24 point increase for the LibDems to over 40 per cent whilst the Tory share dropped to a third - a 15 per cent swing overall. LibDems got a councillor elected here in 2007 - when they just outpolled the Tories overall in a straight fight but better "vote splitting" meant the blue team got the other two seats - but since then the Tories won fairly easily in 2011 and 2015, plus a previous 2013 by-election; so this result, whilst not totally unprecedented, was still somewhat against recent trends. Independents managed to break the Tory monopoly back in 2003, but their two candidates did rather less impressively this time; the top placed polled 9%, down on when they previously stood on GE day. Labour down 7 points since then, but still narrowly ahead of UKIP who scored 5% - down on their previous showings in 2011 and (more so) 2013, whilst the other Indy trailed in last. The other seat saw the LibDems poll over half the vote with an increase of a whopping 37 per cent on last year - this may or may not be connected with the fact the winner was a previous Independent councillor here; Independents shared the two seats with Tories here in 2007 and 2011 (and had done with the LibDems in 2003) before the last GE day saw the Independent lose their seat and two Tories returned here for the first time. With no Independents this time, the Tories also saw a small increase but were still well beaten and the swing since 2015 was over 17%. UKIP stood here for the first time at this level and just managed to finish ahead of Labour (who somehow got someone elected in their "annus mirabilis" of 1995) who dropped 10% to 6% and last place.

Three contests this week - one today and two (the final vacancies of 2016) tomorrow.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:51 pm

Thankyou.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 4:54 pm

Stephen...you do know that Christmas parties are held annually and the word again means once more, in addition, etc ?

Just checking. Not sure why her comment merited such a picky response.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:01 pm

I vote Tory,Libdem UKIP,Monster Raving Loony,SNP,PC but mainly the making it up as I go along and contradicting myself within seconds Party.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:03 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Labour are in trouble in this by election. Theresa May is still insanely popular.

The latest MORI poll showed her approval rating dipping significantly (though it is still positive) Who knows where it will be in a few months?

Take it from me, I am highly doubtful if either May's popularity or Corbyn's lack of it will decide this byelection. Other things will.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:05 pm

Am referring to different differences.
Non-Hugo differences!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:09 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Hobiejoe wrote:Uncanny, Roger.
Ah but has anyone seen RoT and said semi-regular poster in the same room at the same time?
Crikey, I was just congratulating RoT on his perspicacity, not making mischievous suggestions of sock-puppetry!

I have to have some fun in life.
The above mischievous suggestion was approximately this month's quota.

(eeyore emoticon)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:10 pm

What are the different differences ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:11 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -data-pack" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Work, health and disability green paper: data pack

AKA scandalous and deliberate "misinterpretation" of statistics

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:14 pm

HindleA wrote:Thankyou.

HindleA.
Showing us how it should be done.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:18 pm

"At the Xmas party again? Blimey, how many a year do they have?"
Not sure, might be an odd children's Christmas party held by them, and maybe an OAP one, but in this case I meant "again" as a reference to last years party that caused a stink.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:18 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Labour are in trouble in this by election. Theresa May is still insanely popular.

Nah. It would require a big swing to the Tories. Last time the opposition lost to the government was in 1982, but then the Labour MP had resigned and stood for the SDP. Nothing like that will happen this time. You'd have to go back to before any on this board were born to find a seat lost by the opposition to the government in similar circumstances.

As for JC and Stop the War, I don't believe that his views have changed whatsoever. Certainly his quitting as Chair of the organisation he helped to found, and was a prominent part of for so long, is no indication to me that his views have changed at all. indeed, I don't think Corbyn's views on anything at all have changed since the 1970s. Stop the War are appalling IMO (see Indeed, he has no surprising views at all for someone of his ilk. His views on nuclear power for example are readily guessed, you don't even have to google them.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:19 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Labour are in trouble in this by election. Theresa May is still insanely popular.
The latest MORI poll showed her approval rating dipping significantly (though it is still positive) Who knows where it will be in a few months?

Take it from me, I am highly doubtful if either May's popularity or Corbyn's lack of it will decide this byelection. Other things will.

I agree. By-elections are quite different from general elections. In the latter, Labour would be in trouble. Not in a by.