Wednesday, 21st December 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 8:13 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 8:16 am

UK risks return to pay squeeze, says thinktank

Resolution Foundation predicts rising prices and stalling of jobs growth will hit real earnings next year
(Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... obs-growth

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 8:38 am

Morning all.

Radio 1 news update implied the immigrant Pakistani man arrested was guilty but the police didn't have enough evidence. Very bad framing there, ditto what Tubby referenced last night with the unlimited immigration language on the BBC news website.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 8:41 am

Morning.

PF - have you been asked to arbitrate on Tubby's words about Corbyn and 'Burnham's stupid comments' ? In your role as FTN's grammar and language consultant of course, not from any political stance.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 8:49 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

PF - have you been asked to arbitrate on Tubby's words about Corbyn and 'Burnham's stupid comments' ? In your role as FTN's grammar and language consultant of course, not from any political stance.

Ha! No - but they both should have possessives, in my opinion, if that's what you're referring to.

How's Mr Purrkins today?

Edited to add -

That's what I've mentally named yahyah's cat!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 9:39 am

Mr Purrkins. Love it.

He is still an outdoor cat at the moment, he hasn't fully embraced being 'owned' yet.
My friends, who had been keeping an eye on him, moved out yesterday, the new owners and their dog move in tomorrow. He's probably rather confused at the moment, but the arrival of the dog may hasten his desire to end his attachment to the porch he's been sleeping in.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 9:41 am

EU's highest court delivers blow to UK snooper's charter

Indiscriminate collection of emails is illegal, court rules in response to challenge originally brought by David Davis
The European court of justice.

“General and indiscriminate retention” of emails and electronic communications by governments is illegal, the EU’s highest court has ruled in a judgment that could trigger challenges against the UK’s new Investigatory Powers Act, the so-called snooper’s charter.

Only targeted interception of traffic and location data in order to combat serious crime is justified, according to a long-awaited decision by the European court of justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg. (Guardian)

David Davis will be pleased that the EU has waded in on his side!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/de ... rs-charter

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 9:46 am

yahyah wrote:Mr Purrkins. Love it.

He is still an outdoor cat at the moment, he hasn't fully embraced being 'owned' yet.
My friends, who had been keeping an eye on him, moved out yesterday, the new owners and their dog move in tomorrow. He's probably rather confused at the moment, but the arrival of the dog may hasten his desire to end his attachment to the porch he's been sleeping in.

This time of year surely its Puss in Boots?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 9:47 am

PorFavor wrote:
EU's highest court delivers blow to UK snooper's charter

Indiscriminate collection of emails is illegal, court rules in response to challenge originally brought by David Davis
The European court of justice.

“General and indiscriminate retention” of emails and electronic communications by governments is illegal, the EU’s highest court has ruled in a judgment that could trigger challenges against the UK’s new Investigatory Powers Act, the so-called snooper’s charter.

Only targeted interception of traffic and location data in order to combat serious crime is justified, according to a long-awaited decision by the European court of justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg. (Guardian)
David Davis will be pleased that the EU has waded in on his side!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/de ... rs-charter

Indeed, let's hear from Tom Watson and David Davis over this please tv news

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 9:47 am

StephenDolan wrote:
yahyah wrote:Mr Purrkins. Love it.

He is still an outdoor cat at the moment, he hasn't fully embraced being 'owned' yet.
My friends, who had been keeping an eye on him, moved out yesterday, the new owners and their dog move in tomorrow. He's probably rather confused at the moment, but the arrival of the dog may hasten his desire to end his attachment to the porch he's been sleeping in.
This time of year surely its Puss in Boots?

Oh, no it isn't !

Your turn . . .

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 9:52 am

http://newsthump.com/2016/12/21/post-br ... -nazareth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

' “Despite Joseph’s protestations that Bethlehem was his home town, the innkeeper pointed to Mary’s bump and accused her of being a health tourist.”

The children’s teacher tried to intervene by feeding the innkeeper the correct lines, but one of the parents is reported to have stood up and accused her of being an ‘EU quisling, liberal elite who lives in a Westminster smear bubble’. '
:lol!:

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:06 am

'Fahrenthold’s work offers lessons for other journalists covering the president-elect.

First, as he notes, his technique was “a way to get around the blockade Trump puts up around himself, a way to spread questions far and wide.” That may be particularly important in covering a politician who denies access to media outlets whose reporting he finds objectionable.

Second, Fahrenthold advises, “Don't focus on what Trump says. Focus on the results of his actions. Stay in your lane and focus on one particular area.” '

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ge/511277/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The same should be applied to Farage etc. Link monkey strikes again

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:31 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/d ... b6e4b941c5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Government Urged To ‘Immediately’ Reform Bedroom Tax As Families Are ‘Going Hungry"

"Look we don't give a fuck how much tax payers money is wasted to maintain this policy,the harm it causes,the fact that less people have moved than prior to implementation and it fails on all counts as to stated intention.Happy Christmas scumbags"

A DWP robobot stated.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:34 am

Morning all. I like this one.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Duncan Weldon ‏@DuncanWeldon 1h1 hour ago

Also: We're in Wood Green. So when you said "yeah, on the way in now", that was probably a lie.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:43 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... im-say-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Government has 99% success rate in misleading public"

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:47 am

Did someone delete a link to a story about the Berlin truck attack? Or did I imagine it? Anyway, I was going to say, given the very sparse information actually available, that many media outlets have been somewhat lax in their reporting, running ahead with stories about immigrants, when there is no current suspect. Speculation about Islamic terrorism is natural, especially if Christmas markets had been identified as potential targets, but the way in which the story has been arbitrarily linked to Merkel's decision to allow a large number of asylum seekers into Germany a year ago is quite shocking to me. This is a serious incident in which people have died and the victim's families deserve the respect of allowing the police to determine the truth of what happened and attempt to bring the perpetrator/s to justice without the media muddying the water with politically motivated mudslinging and, in some cases it seems, downright mis-information.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38387530" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The former suspect, a Pakistani national named as Naved B, had denied any connection with the attack.
Police said there were no forensic clues to link him to the vehicle, and had expressed doubt about his involvement soon after his arrest.

I read this pretty early on yesterday. The press must have been aware of this. So, with no definite suspect, and several lines of enquiry being pursued, including claims of responsibility from IS, and an ID card belonging to a Tunisian, where are the grounds to so heavily link this story to the influx of Syrian refugees a year ago? I see none as yet. If it does turn out to be the case that a recent asylum seeker is responsible, there will surely be more than enough time to hit Merkel around the head with it once it's been established as a fact, surely? This frenzy of politically biased speculation by the press is quite worrying to me. You expect it from the tabloids, but it seemed to be everywhere yesterday.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:49 am

Rupee recall / Small businesses facing 'apocalypse' amid biggest financial experiment in history

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... in-history
Interesting article, sad to see that other countries leaders (especially of future, post brexit, trading partners), have the same reality gap problems as ours.

“In theory, it’s a great idea to actually ensure that workers actually get the wage they’ve been promised,” says Aparna, the president of the Indian Federation of Trade Unions, who like many Indians uses only one name.
“The downside is: we can’t do it. It’s a bit like say the government has announced the end to all poverty by tomorrow. It’s not taking into account any of the obvious constraints that even a child in India could see........
.....
Digital payments might be novel, but the ambitious plan is “an old Indian pathology”, he says. “The belief that if you legislate something, it happens.”
”

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:21 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Radio 1 news update implied the immigrant Pakistani man arrested was guilty but the police didn't have enough evidence. Very bad framing there, ditto what Tubby referenced last night with the unlimited immigration language on the BBC news website.

Could it be that the BBC has reacted to criticism that they have previously been too circumscribed in reporting these sorts of incidents, by moving rather too much in the opposite direction? Another symptom of an organisation that has lost its bearings, I fear.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:22 am

May’s revenge: Brexit memo firm pulls out of contracts

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mays- ... 905df53ea4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:29 am

By Jacek Rostowski, Poland’s Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister from 2007 to 2013

British Prime Minister Theresa May reportedly “needed some time to compose herself” in a recent meeting with her presumed ally Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor categorically rejected May’s proposal to do a “side deal” on European Union nationals living in Britain before the United Kingdom officially triggers Brexit negotiations by invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/20/ther ... it-problem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:38 am

AngryAsWell wrote:By Jacek Rostowski, Poland’s Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister from 2007 to 2013

British Prime Minister Theresa May reportedly “needed some time to compose herself” in a recent meeting with her presumed ally Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor categorically rejected May’s proposal to do a “side deal” on European Union nationals living in Britain before the United Kingdom officially triggers Brexit negotiations by invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/20/ther ... it-problem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paradoxically, while the Conservative Party leadership has decided to represent the incoherent Leave coalition, no one is speaking for the 48% of voters who sided with Remain, except for the Liberal-Democratic Party, which has minimal influence in Parliament. This is even more surprising when one considers two deep structural factors that will cut short Leave’s continued political dominance in the medium term.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:39 am

Morning nesters

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:39 am

Battling my way to the end of the year and about to embark on a "holiday"

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:40 am

At least this one will be without the added complexity of the other half's family
Not that they're not wonderful
In their own way
It's just that a holiday's not a holiday
With them

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:49 am

ICG Health
‏@ICG_Health

The Government have announced that Lord Prior has been moved from @DHgovuk to @beisgovuk and will be replaced by Lord O'Shaughnessy

O'Shaughnessy was the founder of Floreat Academies trust which says this:

He was Director of Policy and Research for former Prime Minister David Cameron between 2007 and 2011, latterly in No.10 Downing Street, and holds an MA (Oxon) in Politics, Philosophy and Economics from the University of Oxford.

i.e. he paid for it a few years after getting his BA.

http://www.floreat.org.uk/Founder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 12:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Radio 1 news update implied the immigrant Pakistani man arrested was guilty but the police didn't have enough evidence. Very bad framing there, ditto what Tubby referenced last night with the unlimited immigration language on the BBC news website.
Could it be that the BBC has reacted to criticism that they have previously been too circumscribed in reporting these sorts of incidents, by moving rather too much in the opposite direction? Another symptom of an organisation that has lost its bearings, I fear.

Possibly.

On a recent "On The Media" podcast they were talking to a European (German or Dutch, I don't recall) newspaper bod. He said that there was a conscious effort to either refer to all suspects and people convicted of crimes religion, ethnicity, nationality, or none.

In a related aside, Google came under fire not so long ago when comparisons of the results associated with the phrases "Two black men" and "two white men" were highlighted. That's blame the messenger, not the writers of the news headlines but it (briefly) pointed out subliminal word associations in the media.

I'm desperately trying to find it, but there's an excellent (SNL?) sketch with two news reporters discussing a sports victory celebration based riot using the equivalent language to that used when covering Ferguson etc.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 12:06 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:By Jacek Rostowski, Poland’s Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister from 2007 to 2013

British Prime Minister Theresa May reportedly “needed some time to compose herself” in a recent meeting with her presumed ally Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor categorically rejected May’s proposal to do a “side deal” on European Union nationals living in Britain before the United Kingdom officially triggers Brexit negotiations by invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/20/ther ... it-problem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paradoxically, while the Conservative Party leadership has decided to represent the incoherent Leave coalition, no one is speaking for the 48% of voters who sided with Remain, except for the Liberal-Democratic Party, which has minimal influence in Parliament. This is even more surprising when one considers two deep structural factors that will cut short Leave’s continued political dominance in the medium term.

Depends what you mean by "speaking for" - that 48% is in reality no more "coherent" than the 52% who voted for Brexit.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 12:18 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:By Jacek Rostowski, Poland’s Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister from 2007 to 2013

British Prime Minister Theresa May reportedly “needed some time to compose herself” in a recent meeting with her presumed ally Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor categorically rejected May’s proposal to do a “side deal” on European Union nationals living in Britain before the United Kingdom officially triggers Brexit negotiations by invoking Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/20/ther ... it-problem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paradoxically, while the Conservative Party leadership has decided to represent the incoherent Leave coalition, no one is speaking for the 48% of voters who sided with Remain, except for the Liberal-Democratic Party, which has minimal influence in Parliament. This is even more surprising when one considers two deep structural factors that will cut short Leave’s continued political dominance in the medium term.
Depends what you mean by "speaking for" - that 48% is in reality no more "coherent" than the 52% who voted for Brexit.

We're in disarray.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 12:21 pm

The world is. That's what nigh on four decades of neoliberalism will do.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 12:56 pm

Just came across this, may be of interest to some.
https://bankunderground.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bank Underground is a blog for Bank of England staff to share views that challenge – or support – prevailing policy orthodoxies. The views expressed here are those of the authors, and are not necessarily those of the Bank of England or its policy committees.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:12 pm

Exclusive: TfL hit by Garden Bridge conflict of interest claims

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/new ... 64.article

Transport for London’s planning boss sought to persuade central government to release £3.5 million for the controversial scheme after accepting a job at the project’s engineer, Arup

A year ago, Transport for London’s then managing director of planning Richard de Cani accepted a top job at the global engineering firm, handing in his notice on 1 January this year and starting work in May.

De Cani – now head of planning for the UKMEA region at Arup – had been closely involved with the bridge’s controversial procurement from its 2012 inception, including the selection of Joanna Lumley’s team of Arup and Heatherwick Studio.

Any calls for a forensic investigation of the Boris era yet?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:15 pm

Interesting - wonder what brought this on if true?

BBC Cumbria ‏@BBC_Cumbria 2m2 minutes ago

Sources have told @BBC_Cumbria that Copeland MP @jreedmp is to announce his resignation as an MP this afternoon

If connected to Corbyn I guarantee we'll see a semi-regular poster here within minutes...

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:17 pm

Might be standing as an independent pro-nukes candidate. Likely to be hammered by the Tories.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:24 pm

An article went up on the Guardian four minutes ago using 'Corbyn critic' in the headline.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:25 pm

Looks like this was given to the Guardian well in advance!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-copeland

One of Jeremy Corbyn’s most persistent critics is to quit as a Labour MP and take a job in the nuclear industry, triggering a three-way fight for his marginal northern seat with the Conservatives and Ukip.

Jamie Reed, the MP for Copeland in west Cumbria since 2005, told the Guardian he was resigning because he believed he could achieve more for his community in his new job, working for the nuclear processing site Sellafield, than on the backbenches.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:25 pm

He's off to work in the nuclear industry. Makes a change from 'to spend more time with my family'. Some heads will be exploding.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:30 pm

https://twitter.com/jreedmp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:33 pm

yahyah wrote:https://twitter.com/jreedmp

First of many I expect. That is what I'd do if I were him. Like me, he found himself in the wrong party. The ones with any talent will find alternative employment.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:36 pm

yahyah wrote:He's off to work in the nuclear industry. Makes a change from 'to spend more time with my family'. Some heads will be exploding.

In fact he's going back to where he worked before as a press officer.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:36 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Might be standing as an independent pro-nukes candidate. Likely to be hammered by the Tories.

No, he isn't *that* self indulgent.

I wish him well, it is regrettable that he lost his bearings after last year's GE.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:41 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Interesting - wonder what brought this on if true?

BBC Cumbria ‏@BBC_Cumbria 2m2 minutes ago

Sources have told @BBC_Cumbria that Copeland MP @jreedmp is to announce his resignation as an MP this afternoon
If connected to Corbyn I guarantee we'll see a semi-regular poster here within minutes...

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:41 pm

J Reed
No loss

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:41 pm

Ah, fair enough. Good luck to him. He wasted his talent in politics lately.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:42 pm

Uncanny, Roger.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:42 pm

As long as we don't get any more drive by attacks from another place.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:50 pm

Interesting how that plays out. What's the likely timeframe for the byelection? Supreme judges verdict due around the same time?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:51 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Ah, fair enough. Good luck to him. He wasted his talent in politics lately.

On this, we can agree.

It is a genuine shame, just a few years ago he seemed to be somebody who was going places - and the entire local party would have done pretty much anything for him.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:53 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Ah, fair enough. Good luck to him. He wasted his talent in politics lately.
On this, we can agree.

It is a genuine shame, just a few years ago he seemed to be somebody who was going places - and the entire local party would have done pretty much anything for him.

Ah yes - from your neck of the woods AK.

We will expect extremely insightful by-election analysis

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:58 pm

LibDems (on twitter) seem to think they are in with a good shot at Jamie's seat. Hard to tell, big vote leave vote.
Any thought AK ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 2:01 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Interesting how that plays out. What's the likely timeframe for the byelection? Supreme judges verdict due around the same time?

Interesting timing - I don't think he can resign properly while Parliament is not in session.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignati ... and_orders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When an MP is appointed to the post, the Treasury releases a public notice: "The Chancellor of the Exchequer has this day appointed [named individual] to be Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of Chiltern."[14]

After the Speaker has been notified, the appointment and resulting disqualification is noted in the Vote and Proceedings, the Commons' daily journal of proceedings:

Notification, laid upon the Table by the Speaker, That Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer had today appointed [named individual], Member for [named constituency], to the office of Steward and Bailiff of the Three Hundreds of Chiltern.[15]

House returns on 9th January.