Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

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Eric_WLothian
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Eric_WLothian »

AngryAsWell wrote: "...a Conservative Party member who despaired that, in his own words, two whole aisles in his local Tesco had been given over to Polish food.
He was not a racist, nor even a xenophobe, but he was frustrated that cultural change had come to his neighbourhood without notice or consultation."
He must live a very sheltered life if he's just found the Polish aisle. Presumably he hasn't noticed the Chinese, Indian, French, Japanese, Mexican etc restaurants which have been around for at least 50 years without any problem - not to mention the 'ethnic' supermarkets in most cities.

A merry Christmas to all.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

The day has arrived :)

I hope everybody enjoys it.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Hobiejoe
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Hobiejoe »

On an optimistic note, some Roy Wood - I never knew about the connection between him and ELO. I'm afraid I was just a sprog during the 70's, but there's a documentary on BBC6 later today that covers it that I've heard the plugs for.

[youtube]ZoxQ4Ul_DME[/youtube]

Or, on a more pessimistic/realistic note, a song I often hear from the height of the cold war where I rather think the person or, more often business, playing it hasn't really listened too closely to the lyric. A Trumpian carol.

[youtube]2HkJHApgKqw[/youtube]
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Happy Christmas one and all.

Wife's just come home and gone to bed. No chance of my son being up yet so I'm left in charge of getting dinner cooked and ready to eat for 2pm.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
MsChin
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by MsChin »

A fly by from me to wish all the Nesters a very Merry Christmas.
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citizenJA
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by citizenJA »

@HindleA

We're mixing our chocolates
Mr citizen and I dislike marzipan
Will you favour us with your opinion
Mr citizen is working on his music
My impressions were requested
I couldn't have blundered worse
We miss your company
I hope your family and you are well

xx
cJA
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by RogerOThornhill »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Happy Christmas one and all.

Wife's just come home and gone to bed. No chance of my son being up yet so I'm left in charge of getting dinner cooked and ready to eat for 2pm.
Make that 2:30pm - a bit of a cock up on the catering timing front...2pm minus 2hrs 45 is not, repeat not 11:45! Oops.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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citizenJA
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by citizenJA »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Happy Christmas one and all.

Wife's just come home and gone to bed. No chance of my son being up yet so I'm left in charge of getting dinner cooked and ready to eat for 2pm.
Please give my love to your wife.
Her work wasn't much like T May's Christmas vicarage memories
Christmas vicars I recall - Madeira-filled crystal, pecan pie and frequent naps throughout the day
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citizenJA
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by citizenJA »

MsChin wrote:A fly by from me to wish all the Nesters a very Merry Christmas.
Thank you, Merry Christmas to you, MsChin!
xx
cJA
gilsey
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by gilsey »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -donations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A nice story for today.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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citizenJA
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by citizenJA »

Currently, a balmy 13 °C (55 °F) in Stoke
tinybgoat
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by tinybgoat »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Happy Christmas one and all.

Wife's just come home and gone to bed. No chance of my son being up yet so I'm left in charge of getting dinner cooked and ready to eat for 2pm.
Make that 2:30pm - a bit of a cock up on the catering timing front...2pm minus 2hrs 45 is not, repeat not 11:45! Oops.
I'm impressed by anyone managing to get Xmas dinner ready anywhere near the expected time.
For various historic reasons (but usually due to one or other tiny tinybgoats feeling unwell on the day, Xmas dinner in bgoat house tends to be a movable feast but often doesn't occur until Boxing day, with Xmas pud put off until anyone can face it.
Have managed sardines on toast so far today but still intending for main event this evening (but haven't checked cooking instructions yet.....) :?
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by RogerOThornhill »

tinybgoat wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Happy Christmas one and all.

Wife's just come home and gone to bed. No chance of my son being up yet so I'm left in charge of getting dinner cooked and ready to eat for 2pm.
Make that 2:30pm - a bit of a cock up on the catering timing front...2pm minus 2hrs 45 is not, repeat not 11:45! Oops.
I'm impressed by anyone managing to get Xmas dinner ready anywhere near the expected time.
For various historic reasons (but usually due to one or other tiny tinybgoats feeling unwell on the day, Xmas dinner in bgoat house tends to be a movable feast but often doesn't occur until Boxing day, with Xmas pud put off until anyone can face it.
Have managed sardines on toast so far today but still intending for main event this evening (but haven't checked cooking instructions yet.....) :?
Only 5 minutes late...and a triumph! Well, there was only 3 of us as opposed to the 7 we used to have but even so, my cooking was pretty decent even if I say so myself.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AngryAsWell »

Well, guests have gone and the (rather large) remains of the turkey & ham are in the fridge, awaiting later attention.
I hope everyone had a lovely day with friends and family, or if alone, your day was not too lonesome, and although alone have through the eyes of the media (TV, twitter here, FB and stuff) not felt isolated.
(The above punctuation is deliberately weird - like a Christmas puzzle - to keep the brightest amongst us on there tows - HA! hahah! I'm full of it tonight!)

On a more serious note, a good friend, who is an HLTA who takes private work caring a few hours a week for autistic children in their own homes (or helping socialise them by taking them out and about) arrived at her job to find a 10 year old had his mother pinned against the wall screaming 7 bells at her. As she when to restrain him he head butted her under the chin sending her head back wards with a massive thump. She has a bad headache and her hands and arms are numb. She gets £8.50 per hour - the agency she works for get £15 to 20 per hour.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Wow,l just seen that George Michael has died.

That really is a shocker - only 53.
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StephenDolan
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by StephenDolan »

So George Michael goes too.
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citizenJA
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by citizenJA »

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA
PorFavor
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all.

Bad start to the day - daughter missed her bus down to London so is either looking for alternate routes as there's no train, or faced with leaving coming back until tomorrow.

Oh well, Boxing Day lunch was going to be delayed due to 1pm kick off at Orient...maybe it'll be delayed by 24 hours instead.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
StephenDolan
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by StephenDolan »

Morning all.

'Asked why he believes Corbyn inspires such passionate loyalty, he says: “I think in part it is a rejection of New Labour, and there is a visceral sense among many in the party, old and new members, that New Labour wasn’t radical enough and New Labour wasn’t Labour enough.

“That’s definitely out there and felt by many, many people. I think there was also just a human, emotional reaction to the notion that Jeremy was being unfairly challenged.”'

Owen Smith saying something I agree with.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

'Asked why he believes Corbyn inspires such passionate loyalty, he says: “I think in part it is a rejection of New Labour, and there is a visceral sense among many in the party, old and new members, that New Labour wasn’t radical enough and New Labour wasn’t Labour enough.

“That’s definitely out there and felt by many, many people. I think there was also just a human, emotional reaction to the notion that Jeremy was being unfairly challenged.”'

Owen Smith saying something I agree with.


Sad that the government of 1997-2010, one based on facts and reason, is so unfairly tradduced. Almost as if some on the left prefer the long periods of Tory rule before and after because they prefer the purity of powerless opposition.

Iraq was, of course, a disaster, and I suspect decisive in killing the politics of that era.

Still, the thesis of Corbyn's electoral popularity will need to be tested in 2020 there is no choice.

Nothing to do but laugh, and vote Green.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AngryAsWell »

Why I'm optimistic about 2017
Paul Mason

PM at his confused best
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/co ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PorFavor
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by PorFavor »

AngryAsWell wrote:Why I'm optimistic about 2017
Paul Mason

PM at his confused best
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/co ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It confused me, too!
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

PorFavor wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Why I'm optimistic about 2017
Paul Mason

PM at his confused best
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/co ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It confused me, too!

Getting a lot of praise but seems hopelessly vague to me.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AngryAsWell »

A bit Corbyn/Labour heavy, but some good Tory ones as well

15 Times British Politics Went Full ‘The Thick Of It’ In 2016
‘The only other candidate is my left bollock with a smiley face painted on it.’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/t ... baa877ed8a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AngryAsWell »

Ben Jennings on 2016, the year of unwanted gifts - cartoon

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ts-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Less than inspiring stuff from a strong Corbyn ally.
The shadow transport secretary, Andy McDonald, accused the Tories of hypocrisy for attacking Labour over the issue while in opposition but not taking action in office.

Large parts of the country will be without a rail service on Boxing Day, while some operators will only be running a limited number of trains.

McDonald said: “Tory ministers’ handling of the Boxing Day rail standstill is making it much harder for families and friends to visit one another this Christmas break. In opposition the Tories attacked the Boxing Day rail shutdown. They’ve now had more than six years to do something about it but haven’t.

“Their lack of action, even despite the chaos of previous years, gives the impression they don’t really care about it at all. The Tory hypocrisy on this issue is astounding.”
Fair point about the sort of silly criticism Cameron and pals made in opposition. But don't then go on and do the same yourself. "Do something about it" is juvenile stuff I thought we'd seen the back of when Michael Dugher was moved out of the Shadow Transport brief. You have to do work on the railways at Christmas. Try closing eg Paddington for 6 days at another time of the year.

Rail is supposed to be a strong issue for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour. Everyone knows he's committed and knowledgeable about it, even if he mucked up the photo op on the Virgin train in the leadership campaign. But McDonald like this is going to make Labour into a joke on rail. Maybe this the new "populist" approach.

The political opportunity for the Opposition is that the government (probably under Osborne's hard hat image) have hugely overpromised in what they can deliver and stuff is years behind. Attack them for not doing infrastructure work, not for doing it.

I think there are other issues too. "Do something about it" implies what? Chris Grayling telling Network Rail when to do maintenance? A fully nationalized system run on those lines isn't very appetizing to me, nor I suspect to the sort of managers who would be needed to make it work. I've always found left politics weak on this sort of stuff. "Accountability" apparently makes everything work.

And I worry about too much negative stuff about the railway. It's too expensive, but basically as good as its ever been in terms of the frequency of services running and safety.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

So when do we get a proper policy on fares?

I fully appreciate how cautious oppositions need to be about spending plans. But I'd like to see some ideas- nationalization will take till the franchises run out, which could be yonks if the Tories put their minds to it. There are lots of regulated fares already. How can these be brought down? What about re-opening lines? Or speeding up the delivery of existing plans?
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Less than inspiring stuff from a strong Corbyn ally.
The shadow transport secretary, Andy McDonald, accused the Tories of hypocrisy for attacking Labour over the issue while in opposition but not taking action in office.

Large parts of the country will be without a rail service on Boxing Day, while some operators will only be running a limited number of trains.

McDonald said: “Tory ministers’ handling of the Boxing Day rail standstill is making it much harder for families and friends to visit one another this Christmas break. In opposition the Tories attacked the Boxing Day rail shutdown. They’ve now had more than six years to do something about it but haven’t.

“Their lack of action, even despite the chaos of previous years, gives the impression they don’t really care about it at all. The Tory hypocrisy on this issue is astounding.”
Fair point about the sort of silly criticism Cameron and pals made in opposition. But don't then go on and do the same yourself. "Do something about it" is juvenile stuff I thought we'd seen the back of when Michael Dugher was moved out of the Shadow Transport brief. You have to do work on the railways at Christmas. Try closing eg Paddington for 6 days at another time of the year.

Rail is supposed to be a strong issue for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour. Everyone knows he's committed and knowledgeable about it, even if he mucked up the photo op on the Virgin train in the leadership campaign. But McDonald like this is going to make Labour into a joke on rail. Maybe this the new "populist" approach.

The political opportunity for the Opposition is that the government (probably under Osborne's hard hat image) have hugely overpromised in what they can deliver and stuff is years behind. Attack them for not doing infrastructure work, not for doing it.

I think there are other issues too. "Do something about it" implies what? Chris Grayling telling Network Rail when to do maintenance? A fully nationalized system run on those lines isn't very appetizing to me, nor I suspect to the sort of managers who would be needed to make it work. I've always found left politics weak on this sort of stuff. "Accountability" apparently makes everything work.

And I worry about too much negative stuff about the railway. It's too expensive, but basically as good as its ever been in terms of the frequency of services running and safety.
Yes. The Boxing Day shut down is bad for me and mine but "do something" is just juvenile.

The current system works. It isn't perfect but nationalisation is worse, and subsidises are deeply regressive.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

'Asked why he believes Corbyn inspires such passionate loyalty, he says: “I think in part it is a rejection of New Labour, and there is a visceral sense among many in the party, old and new members, that New Labour wasn’t radical enough and New Labour wasn’t Labour enough.

“That’s definitely out there and felt by many, many people. I think there was also just a human, emotional reaction to the notion that Jeremy was being unfairly challenged.”'

Owen Smith saying something I agree with.


Sad that the government of 1997-2010, one based on facts and reason, is so unfairly tradduced
Sorry, but New Labour had a dogma and mythology of its own. One reason why it never lived up to its early promise.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

If nationalization meant Andy McDonald standing up in the Commons and saying "We're a listening government. I've had the boss of Network Rail on the phone and told him that it's not acceptable to close down Paddington Station when so many have been off visiting loved ones" then it would be be very bad. And I suspect the Network Rail boss might resign and be hard to replace.

It needn't be like that. Train companies are way less important than people think, and I don't see why taking the franchises in house would necessarily be disastrous. London Underground works like that. But we'd want Network Rail to be in better shape before it ran train services too.

There aren't big subsidies for running train services now. Since 2007, there's been a bipartisan policy to subsidize tickets less and spend the money on infrastructure. A couple more years of that, and the government could cover all the running costs from letting franchises. It's hard to define what the level of fares should be, but even Osborne thought that we'd reached the limit with above inflation rises.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by AngryAsWell »

A taste of USA things to come....

Trump’s New York Co-Chair Says Michelle Obama Is A Man Who Should Live In Africa With Gorillas
But he says his comments weren’t about race.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/car ... 58648638d7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Politicians can micromanage within the system already. A group of well connected MPs from SW London forced Network Rail to change its plans for terminating their Wimbledon Loop trains at Blackfriars Thameslink. This by all accounts makes things much more complicated for Network Rail, and all because the passengers would have to change to one of the through-trains running every couple of minutes.

We don't need more of that.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

'Asked why he believes Corbyn inspires such passionate loyalty, he says: “I think in part it is a rejection of New Labour, and there is a visceral sense among many in the party, old and new members, that New Labour wasn’t radical enough and New Labour wasn’t Labour enough.

“That’s definitely out there and felt by many, many people. I think there was also just a human, emotional reaction to the notion that Jeremy was being unfairly challenged.”'

Owen Smith saying something I agree with.


Sad that the government of 1997-2010, one based on facts and reason, is so unfairly tradduced
Sorry, but New Labour had a dogma and mythology of its own. One reason why it never lived up to its early promise.
Not sure really how that refutes, or even relates, to anything I said. Nobody would claim perfection.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:If nationalization meant Andy McDonald standing up in the Commons and saying "We're a listening government. I've had the boss of Network Rail on the phone and told him that it's not acceptable to close down Paddington Station when so many have been off visiting loved ones" then it would be be very bad. And I suspect the Network Rail boss might resign and be hard to replace.

It needn't be like that. Train companies are way less important than people think, and I don't see why taking the franchises in house would necessarily be disastrous. London Underground works like that. But we'd want Network Rail to be in better shape before it ran train services too.

There aren't big subsidies for running train services now. Since 2007, there's been a bipartisan policy to subsidize tickets less and spend the money on infrastructure. A couple more years of that, and the government could cover all the running costs from letting franchises. It's hard to define what the level of fares should be, but even Osborne thought that we'd reached the limit with above inflation rises.

The price should be fixed by the market. We shouldn't be fixing them, and thereby subsidising bankers in Surrey.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If nationalization meant Andy McDonald standing up in the Commons and saying "We're a listening government. I've had the boss of Network Rail on the phone and told him that it's not acceptable to close down Paddington Station when so many have been off visiting loved ones" then it would be be very bad. And I suspect the Network Rail boss might resign and be hard to replace.

It needn't be like that. Train companies are way less important than people think, and I don't see why taking the franchises in house would necessarily be disastrous. London Underground works like that. But we'd want Network Rail to be in better shape before it ran train services too.

There aren't big subsidies for running train services now. Since 2007, there's been a bipartisan policy to subsidize tickets less and spend the money on infrastructure. A couple more years of that, and the government could cover all the running costs from letting franchises. It's hard to define what the level of fares should be, but even Osborne thought that we'd reached the limit with above inflation rises.

The price should be fixed by the market. We shouldn't be fixing them, and thereby subsidising bankers in Surrey.
They're not being subsidized, as far as I know. The subsidized lines tend to be in the North, with relatively little commuter traffic. Nor are commuters all or even mainly hugely rich. The fast train that bankers in Woking jump on has come from Portsmouth Harbour.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

I'd argue too that bankers do pay lots of tax. I don't see why they shouldn't then benefit from some of that tax being spent in a way that benefits them as well as other people.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'd argue too that bankers do pay lots of tax. I don't see why they shouldn't then benefit from some of that tax being spent in a way that benefits them as well as other people.

Because it is regressive and a deeply unfair way if the government distributing benefits.

Don't fix prices. Help the poor by redistributing money to them.

Politics interferes with fairness here. Nationalisation will just make that worse.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Eric_WLothian wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: "...a Conservative Party member who despaired that, in his own words, two whole aisles in his local Tesco had been given over to Polish food.
He was not a racist, nor even a xenophobe, but he was frustrated that cultural change had come to his neighbourhood without notice or consultation."
He must live a very sheltered life if he's just found the Polish aisle. Presumably he hasn't noticed the Chinese, Indian, French, Japanese, Mexican etc restaurants which have been around for at least 50 years without any problem - not to mention the 'ethnic' supermarkets in most cities.

A merry Christmas to all.
Merry belated Christmas!

"Two whole aisles" sounds like a load of rubbish, unless maybe it's in Boston. I'm not sure Bethnal Green Tesco has 2 full aisles of Asian food. Non white British people eat lots of the same stuff we do.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'd argue too that bankers do pay lots of tax. I don't see why they shouldn't then benefit from some of that tax being spent in a way that benefits them as well as other people.

Because it is regressive and a deeply unfair way if the government distributing benefits.

Don't fix prices. Help the poor by redistributing money to them.

Politics interferes with fairness here. Nationalisation will just make that worse.
When I used to work in the City, the less well paid support staff were commuting further than the better paid technical staff. You don't live in Chatham if you can afford to live in Bromley. So if you think of it as subsidy, there was more going to the post room than the board room. When people come in on the same trains, you can't separate them out easily. Tax the incomes at different levels and don't worry about it.

The main fares used by bankers- season tickets- are already set by the government. Nationalization won't make any difference to that.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Fearless Andrew Marr holding Brexit to account by writing a load of rubbish and then accusing Jon Worth (who called him out) of not respecting democracy.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'd argue too that bankers do pay lots of tax. I don't see why they shouldn't then benefit from some of that tax being spent in a way that benefits them as well as other people.

Because it is regressive and a deeply unfair way if the government distributing benefits.

Don't fix prices. Help the poor by redistributing money to them.

Politics interferes with fairness here. Nationalisation will just make that worse.
When I used to work in the City, the less well paid support staff were commuting further than the better paid technical staff. You don't live in Chatham if you can afford to live in Bromley. So if you think of it as subsidy, there was more going to the post room than the board room. When people come in on the same trains, you can't separate them out easily. Tax the incomes at different levels and don't worry about it.

The main fares used by bankers- season tickets- are already set by the government. Nationalization won't make any difference to that.

There is no necessary connection in this way between being poor and commuting into London (indeed almost by definition if you're doing that you're not that poor).

Stop it. Just give the poor money. Stop fixing prices.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Because it is regressive and a deeply unfair way if the government distributing benefits.

Don't fix prices. Help the poor by redistributing money to them.

Politics interferes with fairness here. Nationalisation will just make that worse.
When I used to work in the City, the less well paid support staff were commuting further than the better paid technical staff. You don't live in Chatham if you can afford to live in Bromley. So if you think of it as subsidy, there was more going to the post room than the board room. When people come in on the same trains, you can't separate them out easily. Tax the incomes at different levels and don't worry about it.

The main fares used by bankers- season tickets- are already set by the government. Nationalization won't make any difference to that.

There is no necessary connection in this way between being poor and commuting into London (indeed almost by definition if you're doing that you're not that poor).

Stop it. Just give the poor money. Stop fixing prices.
Not the poorest, no. But hardly some uber-affluent group that it's offensive to subsidize in any way at all. Especially if the investment/subsidy leads to more corporation tax and income tax being collected to be redistributed to the poor.

There's not a market for commuting to London for work. Rail is simply the only way to do it. So the price has to be regulated.

Where I think the idea of subsidy is more meaningful is at the level of the region, rather than the individual. There should be more done to raise taxes locally to the area that will benefit from the spending, though that's already what is starting to happen.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

The BBC political correspondent reckons she should be chasing stories about what the Queen might have said off the record.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... kuenssberg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

The "source" presumably is Michael Gove. To whom my reply would be "you can substantiate it yourself".
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Chancer Julian Assange reckons the Russian media is fine and dandy.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... -interview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“In Russia, there are many vibrant publications, online blogs and Kremlin critics, such as [Alexey] Navalny, are part of that spectrum,” he said. “There are also newspapers like Novaya Gazeta, in which different parts of society in Moscow are permitted to critique each other and it is tolerated, generally, because it isn’t a big TV channel that might have a mass popular effect, its audience is educated people in Moscow. So my interpretation is that in Russia there are competitors to WikiLeaks.”
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by SpinningHugo »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: When I used to work in the City, the less well paid support staff were commuting further than the better paid technical staff. You don't live in Chatham if you can afford to live in Bromley. So if you think of it as subsidy, there was more going to the post room than the board room. When people come in on the same trains, you can't separate them out easily. Tax the incomes at different levels and don't worry about it.

The main fares used by bankers- season tickets- are already set by the government. Nationalization won't make any difference to that.

There is no necessary connection in this way between being poor and commuting into London (indeed almost by definition if you're doing that you're not that poor).

Stop it. Just give the poor money. Stop fixing prices.
Not the poorest, no. But hardly some uber-affluent group that it's offensive to subsidize in any way at all. Especially if the investment/subsidy leads to more corporation tax and income tax being collected to be redistributed to the poor.

There's not a market for commuting to London for work. Rail is simply the only way to do it. So the price has to be regulated.

Where I think the idea of subsidy is more meaningful is at the level of the region, rather than the individual. There should be more done to raise taxes locally to the area that will benefit from the spending, though that's already what is starting to happen.
Of course there is a market for it.

Eating food is the only way of living. That doesn't mean there is no market price for food.

We should stop subsidising rich London commuters (the vast bulk of rail commuters).
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by RogerOThornhill »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Bad start to the day - daughter missed her bus down to London so is either looking for alternate routes as there's no train, or faced with leaving coming back until tomorrow.

Oh well, Boxing Day lunch was going to be delayed due to 1pm kick off at Orient...maybe it'll be delayed by 24 hours instead.
Two bits of good news...Orient won at home for a change, and the daughter made it home via a bus to Stansted and then train and tube.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Christmas Weekend. Sat 24th - Tues 27th December

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Missed this before. Roger probably spotted it, but no harm in mentioning it again now that there's a by election happening. Problems with a school in Copeland.

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2 ... en-academy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's Jamie Reed's old school and he was, as you'd expect, on the ball. The new Labour candidate will need to be as well.
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