Wednesday 28th December 2016

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 6:29 am

Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ysis-shows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trains on UK railways more than 20 years old, analysis shows

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 7:25 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... th-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eight in 10 middle-aged Britons 'are overweight or exercise too little'

I have been more or less the same weight for yonks,it is just alternatively dispersed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 9:44 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Third of councils to lose cash in social care changes, says Burnham

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:00 am

Good morning all. Which unfortunates amongst us have had to return to work today?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:36 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:40 am

Four days of this God-awful year to go. 2017 had better be an improvement.

Edited - typo

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:13 pm

2016 was partly so awful because of the "things couldn't be worse" mentality that helped deliver us Brexit and Trump.

Yes, things could be worse - they always could. And 2017 won't be a better year than this one unless people actually make it so.

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:21 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-servants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:32 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:2016 was partly so awful because of the "things couldn't be worse" mentality that helped deliver us Brexit and Trump.

Yes, things could be worse - they always could. And 2017 won't be a better year than this one unless people actually make it so.

Yes. I'm hoping that sufficient numbers of people have been shocked out of their complacency (complacency being the wrong word, but I can't think of the right one).

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:43 pm

The arrogance is breath taking

Pro-Brexit group calls for EU free trade deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38447743" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:55 pm

Dutch woman with two British children told to leave UK after 24 years
Monique Hawkins decided to apply for citizenship fearing her rights would be diminished after Britain leaves the EU

A Dutch woman who has lived in the UK for 24 years, and has two children with her British husband, has been told by the Home Office that she should make arrangements to leave the country after she applied for citizenship after the EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is madness.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 1:06 pm

Debenhams soak homeless man on Boxing Day – ruin his clothes, donated food

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/12/ ... ated-food/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Going off line now, its all too much for me.
Maybe catch you all later, but possibly not as I'm taking my beautiful 20+ year old cat to the vet for a last visit this evening, and I'm not coping very well.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 1:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:Four days of this God-awful year to go. 2017 had better be an improvement.

Edited - typo

I heard something the other day about 2017 being Chinese year of the Rooster, which apparently means they'll be a lot of grandstanding and 'cock of the walk' type behaviour from world leaders. Frankly that would be happening whatever Chinese year it was, especially with the Orange One in the White House.

I suppose there's something to be said for Chinese astrology though - Louise Mensch was born in the year of the Pig, for example, as was George Osborne - and David Cameron's other half ...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 1:38 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Debenhams soak homeless man on Boxing Day – ruin his clothes, donated food

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/12/ ... ated-food/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Going off line now, its all too much for me.
Maybe catch you all later, but possibly not as I'm taking my beautiful 20+ year old cat to the vet for a last visit this evening, and I'm not coping very well.

Please care for yourself and ask for what you need.
I love you.

cJA

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 1:39 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 1:42 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-servants

Theresa May is struggling to summon enough political courage to admit there will be difficulties in Britain’s exit from the
European Union , according to the head of the senior civil servants’ union.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 2:00 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Dutch woman with two British children told to leave UK after 24 years
Monique Hawkins decided to apply for citizenship fearing her rights would be diminished after Britain leaves the EU

A Dutch woman who has lived in the UK for 24 years, and has two children with her British husband, has been told by the Home Office that she should make arrangements to leave the country after she applied for citizenship after the EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is madness.

She's likely facing these difficulties because non-UK EU spouses (citizens) have had their lawful immigration/migration
(freedom of movement rights) upended by the results of the UK EU referendum. Tory government have no plan and
aren't sharing any development of one, if they're doing anything. It's nice her MP intervened though it's not clear
how much assistance that's given her. Government have no practical appreciation of what they're doing to people.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 2:03 pm

Helping my nephew with his A level Maths,for some reason he is impressed by my (lack of)knowledge and asking for advice.Tales of pre calculator, slate and use of tawse for breathing too heavily days(I may have embellshed).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 2:13 pm

Looks like brother and family will not return to reside GB applying for Belgian citizenship.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 2:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Debenhams soak homeless man on Boxing Day – ruin his clothes, donated food

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/12/ ... ated-food/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Going off line now, its all too much for me.
Maybe catch you all later, but possibly not as I'm taking my beautiful 20+ year old cat to the vet for a last visit this evening, and I'm not coping very well.

Oh I am sorry - been there, done that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 2:20 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour warns of teacher training crisis after targets missed again
Not enough trainee teachers began courses in more than three-quarters of subjects, including maths and computing

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 2:43 pm

Review of the year

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... he-year-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 3:06 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... government" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Calais child asylum seekers launch legal action against UK government

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 3:37 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... um=twitter

Labour warns of teacher training crisis after targets missed again
Not enough trainee teachers began courses in more than three-quarters of subjects, including maths and computing

What are Tory government going for here, do you think? Not enough teachers, healthcare personnel, treaty negotiators, civil servants,
Home Office staff, environmental protections staff, veterinarians or agricultural workers. That's not a comprehensive list. It's alarming.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 3:43 pm

@HindleA
Please give your brother and family my love. I wish them every happiness.
Belgian citizenship sounds like a good idea given current affairs though I've only superficial experience on that topic.
Dramatic, complicated citizenship decisions are before many of us.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 3:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:@HindleA
Please give your brother and family my love. I wish them every happiness.
Belgian citizenship sounds like a good idea given current affairs though I've only superficial experience on that topic.
Dramatic, complicated citizenship decisions are before many of us.

Sadly, not for me. I'm stuck with British citizenship until Geordieland gets independence.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 4:33 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
citizenJA wrote:@HindleA
Please give your brother and family my love. I wish them every happiness.
Belgian citizenship sounds like a good idea given current affairs though I've only superficial experience on that topic.
Dramatic, complicated citizenship decisions are before many of us.
Sadly, not for me. I'm stuck with British citizenship until Geordieland gets independence.

I know with every part of myself I've humanity in common with every person I share the world with, regardless of where we are, our citizenship or circumstances.
I've moved around a lot since I was child and I've come home. I don't want to move some more but history teaches me people don't get to choose sometimes. I wish
you every happiness. We're all here in this time - it's brief and magnificent. Sometimes the grandeur isn't obvious though, you know? Non-existent, even. Still, I didn't
write this Simon Jenkins' piece linked below and for that, I'm grateful. It's inaccurate and cringeworthy.

Don’t let the news get you down – things will get better, they always do

No, Jenkins, things will always change, they always do. Big difference.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 5:23 pm

"The chief agencies of progress have been economic."

- Simon Jenkins

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ws-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, any progress that may have happened did so in spite of economic systems.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 6:06 pm

This is a response to what was going on last night on that twitter...

We need a mature Brexit debate – we’re not getting it from Michael Gove

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum

Change Britain – the “campaign to make a success of Britain’s departure from the EU” – published a “report” on the economics of Brexit yesterday. I described it as “junk”. But one response to my comments was interesting – and surprising: Michael Gove tweeted that “hard cheese and sour grapes are never a good combination”.

It wasn’t clear who this was directed at, but I thought I’d respond. After all, Gove is a “founding supporter” of Change Britain. Surely someone of his undoubted intelligence would have a reasoned view about the claims it made? So I asked him if he endorsed the report. He first responded with some general, and irrelevant, rhetoric. Then I asked him if he’d even read it. Here’s what happened next:

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 6:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 6:50 pm

But he (Gove) is so INCREDIBLY CHARMING!!!! Or so says nearly every frigging "political journalist"

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 8:35 pm

Hasn't seen this from the other day. Does Common Sense Jez sound like a winner?

A spokesman for Corbyn said: “Both Labour and US Democrats will have to challenge power if they are going to speak for working people and change a broken system that isn’t delivering for the majority. What Jeremy Corbyn stands for is what most people want: to take on the tax cheats, create a fairer economy, fund a fully public NHS, build more homes, and stop backing illegal wars.

“For the establishment, those ideas are dangerous. For most people in Britain, they’re common sense and grounded in reality.”

To me neither. And the bit about "the establishment" is rubbish too. Who are this mysterious group who oppose building houses and want to outsource their GP, happily pay extra tax because others evade it and love illegal wars? They don't exist.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 8:46 pm

Benjamin Netanyahu subject of 'criminal investigation' – report

Attorney general orders investigation into two unspecified matters involving prime minister, Israeli television station reports (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... -netanyahu

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 8:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-servants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Civil Service union leader makes important points about Brexit.

He said: “It is pure politics that is defining the Brexit debate and forcing May to say this is not a big, difficult job, and it is all in hand. Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be. When anyone pops their head above the parapet – former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government – and says this is going to take a long time and it’s complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people.

Unfortunately, it's the bloke in charge of the FDA suits, rather than Corbyn-speed dialler Mark Serwotka. So probably the leaders office won't take the point on. It needs to be taken on, because good sceptical folk are being lined up for the blame when May mucks it up.

Actually, these people who know what they're talking about are probably "the establishment", so must be avoided at all costs.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 9:11 pm

HindleA wrote:FFS

Portes article on the G open for comments - incredible exchanges
Some excellent posts in response to quintessential cognitively dissonant contributions

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 9:17 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-servants

Civil Service union leader makes important points about Brexit.

He said: “It is pure politics that is defining the Brexit debate and forcing May to say this is not a big, difficult job, and it is all in hand. Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be. When anyone pops their head above the parapet – former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government – and says this is going to take a long time and it’s complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people.
Unfortunately, it's the bloke in charge of the FDA suits, rather than Corbyn-speed dialler Mark Serwotka. So probably the leaders office won't take the point on. It needs to be taken on, because good sceptical folk are being lined up for the blame when May mucks it up.

Actually, these people who know what they're talking about are probably "the establishment", so must be avoided at all costs.

I hear you, I hear you...and I agree. Nebulous name-calling and creating monsters isn't going to help anyone.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 9:41 pm

It won't indeed.

In other news, the daily "rail is really crap" article in the Guardian. Trains are too old.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ysis-shows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Silly pop at "the South" from the IPPR bloke. It's got newer trains generally speaking because the routes are busier. Trains that are struggling there will run perfectly fine on less intensive routes in other parts of the country. And there is old stock in the South. The Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines have 40 year old trains running, and won't be far off 50 years old when they're replaced.

And more generally, older trains than ideal have been needed in the shorter term to cope with the spectacular growth in passenger numbers. And even more generally, when you modernize it's not just a matter of new trains on the same lines. Lots of electrification is now planned, or more precisely hoped for. Buying new diesel trains before it's done would be a waste.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 10:44 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:14 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38455653" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

US actress Debbie Reynolds has been taken to hospital, the day after death of her daughter Carrie Fisher.
Celebrity news site TMZ reported that she may have had a stroke.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/d ... her-mother" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:55 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Theresa May will put plans to pull out of the European Court of Human Rights at the heart of her campaign for the 2020 general election campaign, after ministers conceded that reform plans have been delayed by Brexit.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 28 Dec, 2016 11:56 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Review of the year

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... he-year-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This blog has become a vehicle for my thoughts on current legal issues, the area where I have expertise. My anonymity allows me to tackle topics that I would feel professionally embarrassed to discuss under my own name. Unfortunately, a number of people have now guessed my identity, and so this may be the last yearly review. We shall see

Hmm, a lawyer who like spinning.
I suppose Rumpelstiltskin, is too obvious??

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 12:00 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk

Theresa May will put plans to pull out of the European Court of Human Rights at the heart of her campaign for the 2020 general election campaign, after ministers conceded that reform plans have been delayed by Brexit.

With this and grammar schools, a fairly naked attempt at going after the UKIP vote.

Why vote UKIP when (i) we're out of Europe and (ii) the Tories have the same policies?

Presumably she's banking on reasonable Tories like Ken Clarke to have left the Commons by then and she'll be left with the hard right of people like Priti Patel.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 12:03 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... conditions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lengthy waits to see GPs may pose serious risk to patients, says top doctor
People with non-urgent conditions may be neglected amid long waiting times, leading to acute problems, warns head of GPs’ body

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 12:08 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... t-predicts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK in 2030: older, more unequal and blighted by Brexit, report predicts

http://www.ippr.org/publications/future ... -the-2020s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 1:38 am

tinybgoat wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Review of the year

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... he-year-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This blog has become a vehicle for my thoughts on current legal issues, the area where I have expertise. My anonymity allows me to tackle topics that I would feel professionally embarrassed to discuss under my own name. Unfortunately, a number of people have now guessed my identity, and so this may be the last yearly review. We shall see
Hmm, a lawyer who like spinning.
I suppose Rumpelstiltskin, is too obvious??

You flatter her, or him, by assuming s/he's a lawyer; the entity self-described as "SpinningHugo" never claims to actually be a legal professional. It (the aforementioned entity) may, for instance, be a fully qualified bus driver, a holder of a PSV license, who might feel that they would be embarrassed in the professional world of Public Service Vehicle qualified drivers if it's true identity were to be revealed.

"We shall see" Hmm, that rings a bell, which, statistically speaking, might well be the case.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 2:16 am

Debbie Reynolds dies.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Dec, 2016 2:16 am

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/d ... her-mother" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;