Wednesday 25th January 2017

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:06 pm

The Sun look very much like they changes the picture of Gina Miller to make her look more black.

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/up ... ntimes.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:07 pm

Another deliberately targeted nonsense,causing chaos,need for exemptions etc.

Delayed response to my previous post.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:07 pm

Temulkar wrote:
yahyah wrote:No flyby ~~attacks~~ visits from another place yet ? Don't forget to bring cakes this time, particularly the 'back up' man who flies in to help his failing comrade. Ta. Only polite to bring gifts.
Perhaps they cant be arsed with snide passive aggressive bullshit poisoning their discourse. I often wonder why I bother reading here anymore.

The baked goods, beverages and other various refreshments

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:13 pm

Can you be more specific about which baked goods before I decide to continue,or not?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:14 pm

HindleA wrote:Can you be more specific about which baked goods before I decide to continue,or not?

I'm working on a White Paper regarding baked goods

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:15 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:18 pm

Will it be of substance though,I need to know more than "baked goods"generalisations.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:31 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:There's a problem with this sort of stat that gets bandied around...

Martin George ‏@geomr 25m25 minutes ago

10m people in the UK do not have the basic digital skills required by modern jobs - @halfon4harlowMP
...and that is that it depends on the age profile as to whether it is a real problem or not.

And to who is in government, of course.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:37 pm

HindleA wrote:Will it be of substance though,I need to know more than "baked goods"generalisations.

Baked goods are baked.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 3:38 pm

Baked goods aren't sautéed.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:00 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Can you be more specific about which baked goods before I decide to continue,or not?
I'm working on a White Paper regarding baked goods

I have in my hand a white paper...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:09 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw

Disabled people are to be ‘warehoused’. We should be livid
Mark Brown

Good article, particularly the second half of it. People without enough money or effective advocacy are excluded from a fuller life, losing their home and belongings due to an accounting procedure.
The Spirit of '45 one of the women interviewed said Conservative government weren't interested in less government. Thatcher enacted policies that literally took food off the table for people without enough money to buy a Tory.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:12 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Can you be more specific about which baked goods before I decide to continue,or not?
I'm working on a White Paper regarding baked goods
I have in my hand a white paper...

I smell bakery products in your white paper.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:24 pm

I hope you've got an internet link or sufficient evidence to back up your baked good assertions JA.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:25 pm

A good read from flipchartrick.
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.c ... it-coming/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though the backlash has come from the right, it’s not the same right that talked tough on social issues while deregulating, privatising and leaving corporations and the wealthy to do want they liked. These are nationalists who combine the social conservatism of the traditional right with the pro-worker policies and protectionism of the old left. Their rhetoric is xenophobic but also anti-corporate, often combining the two. It contests both the social liberalism of the left and the economic liberalism of the right. This combination, in varying forms, is a feature of the north European nativist populist parties and, insofar as his ideology has any coherence, the stated policies of Donald Trump.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:30 pm

Cja-the unwarehousing/decarceration progression was partly self interested enlightenment and a cost saving exercise.I don't share such a historic binary view of evil Tories versus good Labour in respect to the sick/disabled,Newton-DLA enactor fought hard for monies as an example.The Labour engendered trope of millions not really sick has reverberated for decades in collusive biparty arrangement and with obvious consequences of just removing monies anyway.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:32 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Strange how none of these repeated concessions "really matter" - if so, why do they invariably have to be literally dragged out of HMG??

(who wrote that btw, though I can hazard a few guesses)
Kuenssberg. Brave woman that she is, staying impervious to the leftie BBC indoctrination program.

My guess is the white paper announcement was a wizard wheeze to wrong-foot Corbyn, which it did. They're obviously not too worried if it wrong-foots Davis as well.
Cameron used to do that sort of thing all the time.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:34 pm

Trump is going to do tons of corporate deregulation, in return for photo ops about "saving" American jobs. See autoworkers for a start.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:37 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... rter-drugs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Usain Bolt stripped of 2008 Olympic relay gold after Nesta Carter fails drug test

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:40 pm

Not fraud but Trump appears to think so

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... oter-fraud" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:41 pm

Weren't we supposed to see business investment rising and taking over from consumer spending as the driver of the economy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38740144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK car industry slows investment, says SMMT trade body

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:44 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... s-refugees" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

US president due to sign off executive orders, including a temporary ban on refugees from the Middle East

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:51 pm

I don't follow Russia Today, obviously, but noticed this on a buzzfeed article. From Sept 2016.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-stati ... 9257-7.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

55 refugee "no go zones" in Sweden apparently.

That's basically inciting racial hatred.

Fuck Ken Livingstone and any other "progressive" that still cuddles up with this lot.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:52 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Will it be of substance though,I need to know more than "baked goods"generalisations.
Baked goods are baked.

Baked means baked!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:53 pm

Hard or soft though?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:54 pm

Passive or just plain ordinary aggressive ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 4:58 pm

Possessive

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:00 pm

Good evening all

I am not 'flying by' really I am focusing on one topic.... Brexit and am interested to have a good, robust discussion

I was also pleased to see that Mr Snozers got a much better welcome than I did when he posted yesterday....well apart from one poster who seems to get a bit more extreme every day...hope it doesn't lead to a self-implosion!

I am still interested in the A50 discussion....a few days ago there was a lot of shouting as to why Labour MUST oppose but the argument has passed from that to 'keeping Labour away from this mess' and 'being beholden to Mays arbitrary timetable'

None of those arguments seem anything but weak to me. The first one may or may not have an impact at some undefined time in the future but that is not certain and actually there are also risks by not supporting it

The second one is a bit strange I must admit...I have no time for May but I have to say delaying longer would be politically damaging...a year could have passed (and it is not as if the time has been spent wisely). Also pressure from the EU is growing and I am sure no one wants to see the farce of 2019 EU elections

I am still waiting for an explanation how Labour not voting against A50 is such a disaster to be honest....I do not expect to get one

Someone with a suspicious mind could be thinking it was because some people don't really care too much about A50 and see it as a good excuse to relaunch a challenge to the leadershop

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:03 pm

Ey up, night shift's clocked on.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:05 pm

yahyah wrote:Ey up, night shift's clocked on.

Yep...and?

Thought I was blocked...you keep telling me I am

Anyway posts aren't intended for you, much rather talk to the grown-ups

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:10 pm

Grown-ups?

That's me ####ed then

Pretty obvious you are a couple,you don't have to keep up the pretence any more.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:10 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Good evening all

I am not 'flying by' really I am focusing on one topic.... Brexit and am interested to have a good, robust discussion

I was also pleased to see that Mr Snozers got a much better welcome than I did when he posted yesterday....well apart from one poster who seems to get a bit more extreme every day...hope it doesn't lead to a self-implosion!

I am still interested in the A50 discussion....a few days ago there was a lot of shouting as to why Labour MUST oppose but the argument has passed from that to 'keeping Labour away from this mess' and 'being beholden to Mays arbitrary timetable'

None of those arguments seem anything but weak to me. The first one may or may not have an impact at some undefined time in the future but that is not certain and actually there are also risks by not supporting it

The second one is a bit strange I must admit...I have no time for May but I have to say delaying longer would be politically damaging...a year could have passed (and it is not as if the time has been spent wisely). Also pressure from the EU is growing and I am sure no one wants to see the farce of 2019 EU elections

I am still waiting for an explanation how Labour not voting against A50 is such a disaster to be honest....I do not expect to get one

Someone with a suspicious mind could be thinking it was because some people don't really care too much about A50 and see it as a good excuse to relaunch a challenge to the leadershop

Probably.

It is all about internal Labour politics I expect.

Just a stick fashioned by Evil Bitterites to attack the leader.

I see it now.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:15 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Good evening all

I am not 'flying by' really I am focusing on one topic.... Brexit and am interested to have a good, robust discussion

I was also pleased to see that Mr Snozers got a much better welcome than I did when he posted yesterday....well apart from one poster who seems to get a bit more extreme every day...hope it doesn't lead to a self-implosion!

I am still interested in the A50 discussion....a few days ago there was a lot of shouting as to why Labour MUST oppose but the argument has passed from that to 'keeping Labour away from this mess' and 'being beholden to Mays arbitrary timetable'

None of those arguments seem anything but weak to me. The first one may or may not have an impact at some undefined time in the future but that is not certain and actually there are also risks by not supporting it

The second one is a bit strange I must admit...I have no time for May but I have to say delaying longer would be politically damaging...a year could have passed (and it is not as if the time has been spent wisely). Also pressure from the EU is growing and I am sure no one wants to see the farce of 2019 EU elections

I am still waiting for an explanation how Labour not voting against A50 is such a disaster to be honest....I do not expect to get one

Someone with a suspicious mind could be thinking it was because some people don't really care too much about A50 and see it as a good excuse to relaunch a challenge to the leadershop

Probably.

It is all about internal Labour politics I expect.

Just a stick fashioned by Evil Bitterites to attack the leader.

I see it now.

I am sure in some cases it is

Until someone explains how opposing A50 will help (and how it will be done) then I am suspicious

I accept some people will use it to express their anger at the referendum result....I am sympathetic to that logic

The party position though is, in my view, correct....vote for A50 and try to amend bill and focus on the negotiations

For those who want Labour as a party to vote against invocation I would like to understand what is the reasoning?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:16 pm

HindleA wrote:Grown-ups?

That's me ####ed then

Pretty obvious you are a couple,you don't have to keep up the pretence any more.

Haha Hindle you have us sussed...such perception

To me you are a grown up...t'is all comparative....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:19 pm

HindleA wrote:Grown-ups?

That's me ####ed then

Pretty obvious you are a couple,you don't have to keep up the pretence any more.

Do you mind A ? I've got good taste in men.

I'm just fed up with flouncers flouncing out, then coming back here to earn plaudits from their pals elsewhere for taking on people who are on their hate list. Particularly when they need others to turn up to 'back them up'.

And who think they have a right to demand answers.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:22 pm

How can you go from announcing a white paper to having the Brexit act approved in both houses in 9 weeks? This is utterly ridiculous. I can't see the problem with saying this and not voting for Article 50 in March.

Wait till June. We then know who'll be the President of France, the second biggest rEU member.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:22 pm

I can hardly see the animosity about Roberts post

Never knew making a comment about whipping (the Parliamentary kind) was so controversial.....

Some posters seemed glad to see him...good he is a nice guy!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:23 pm

What's a 'leadershop', Where is there one, maybe we can get a decent new leader at a bargain price ?

Some people think Corbyn's a disaster. Get over it. A massive amount of voters think so too.
You'll change no one's mind by turning up after work and having a go.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:32 pm

Did we have this? The EU-UK tribunal is likely to mirror the European Court of Justice. The EU won't want to have two completely different processes, whereby something which is the law when a country trades with the UK isn't the law when it deals with another EU member. Going to whack up compliance costs for them if that's so.

http://mlexmarketinsight.com/editors-pi ... trade-ties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Makes sense, but I'm in no way an expert.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:36 pm

I don't read it that way at all.I have never thought Corbyn was suited and have never voted for him.Howsilly,and if I am wrong he can correct me,is not trying to change peoples mind about him so much as questioning the tactic of continual abuse as regards purpose and effects.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:49 pm

Welcome back Rob, genuinely, if you aren't here to play 'wingman' to Silly and pick at Tubby or others.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:50 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:How can you go from announcing a white paper to having the Brexit act approved in both houses in 9 weeks? This is utterly ridiculous. I can't see the problem with saying this and not voting for Article 50 in March.

Wait till June. We then know who'll be the President of France, the second biggest rEU member.

Don't talk sense Tubby !

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:51 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Good evening all

I am not 'flying by' really I am focusing on one topic.... Brexit and am interested to have a good, robust discussion

I was also pleased to see that Mr Snozers got a much better welcome than I did when he posted yesterday....well apart from one poster who seems to get a bit more extreme every day...hope it doesn't lead to a self-implosion!

I am still interested in the A50 discussion....a few days ago there was a lot of shouting as to why Labour MUST oppose but the argument has passed from that to 'keeping Labour away from this mess' and 'being beholden to Mays arbitrary timetable'

None of those arguments seem anything but weak to me. The first one may or may not have an impact at some undefined time in the future but that is not certain and actually there are also risks by not supporting it

The second one is a bit strange I must admit...I have no time for May but I have to say delaying longer would be politically damaging...a year could have passed (and it is not as if the time has been spent wisely). Also pressure from the EU is growing and I am sure no one wants to see the farce of 2019 EU elections

I am still waiting for an explanation how Labour not voting against A50 is such a disaster to be honest....I do not expect to get one

Someone with a suspicious mind could be thinking it was because some people don't really care too much about A50 and see it as a good excuse to relaunch a challenge to the leadershop

Probably.

It is all about internal Labour politics I expect.

Just a stick fashioned by Evil Bitterites to attack the leader.

I see it now.
I am sure in some cases it is

Until someone explains how opposing A50 will help (and how it will be done) then I am suspicious

I accept some people will use it to express their anger at the referendum result....I am sympathetic to that logic

The party position though is, in my view, correct....vote for A50 and try to amend bill and focus on the negotiations

For those who want Labour as a party to vote against invocation I would like to understand what is the reasoning?

As has been explained to you several times, it is about the single market and the difference between a hard and soft Brexit.

By promising that Labour will vote to support the Tories triggering art 50 come what may (indeed Corbyn said it should be triggered straight away the morning after the referendum) Labour has abandoned any attempt to apply any pressure at all. They're supporting the Tories.

The brighter members of the PLP won't be standing again in 2020. They're wasting their time. I doubt they're any longer all that interested in Corbyn's 'leadership'.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:52 pm

yahyah wrote:
I'm just fed up with flouncers flouncing out, then coming back here to earn plaudits from their pals elsewhere for taking on people who are on their hate list. Particularly when they need others to turn up to 'back them up'. And who think they have a right to demand answers.

Good evening, yahyah.

I hope you are well.

I had not intended to post here again; however, I feel the need to do so today.

The people you refer to as "flouncers" are a dozen or so individuals who left this forum for their own reasons - some of them, like me, made it clear at the time why; and most if not all of us remain members of this forum but don't post here often, if at all.

In my case, it was because I felt that this forum had been hijacked by a few individuals who had been allowed to pretty much dictate what was discussed. You know this, from emails we exchanged outside this forum some time ago when you asked me for advice on a personal matter.

"We Need To Talk" was set up further to discussions between a bunch of people who wanted to talk to each other but no longer felt they could do so here. It was not, and is not, a forum in competition with this one; it is a private space for those described above.

For those of us who are not able to get out much, spending a lot of time online is one way for us to connect with people. For me, it's actually very important; and through it, I have become involved with lots of other people in my areas of interest, and I have been able to contribute to some interesting (and in some cases, quite important) publications, along with making friends in real life.

Fly The Nest was where I came for interesting discussions and links; where I felt I had something to contribute; where I felt I was amongst friends and like-minded people. Since the General Election, the atmosphere here has changed, and it is not the congenial place it used to be from my perspective - despite the sterling efforts of some very good people to keep up the good work.

I will happily agree that some of us elsewhere are prone to a bit of bitching about what goes on here; I am one of the offenders. But this forum was something special to me for a long time, and some of my irritation is due to that no longer being the case. Maybe it's some sort of grieving process - as I do miss being here at times - who knows?

I will state here, categorically, just for you, yahyah - there is no rota. Members of this forum who also happen to be members of WNTT are at liberty to post where they like, when they like, and how they like, subject to the usual niceties and forum rules.
If an individual chooses to challenge what they see as a ridiculous position, why shouldn't they? If they choose to post anywhere and everywhere, why shouldn't they? If they are praised for that by others, why shouldn't they be?

It seems to me, yahyah, that you have grown rather waspish of late. Unfortunately, until such time as the "flouncers" are barred from here (and as they are long-standing FTN members, I doubt the splendid admin people here would do that) you may just have to learn to deal with them when they appear.

It would be nice if they brought cake, certainly.

It would be really nice if you could find it in your heart to be a little less rude about your fellow forum members.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 5:54 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Good evening all

I am not 'flying by' really I am focusing on one topic.... Brexit and am interested to have a good, robust discussion

I was also pleased to see that Mr Snozers got a much better welcome than I did when he posted yesterday....well apart from one poster who seems to get a bit more extreme every day...hope it doesn't lead to a self-implosion!

I am still interested in the A50 discussion....a few days ago there was a lot of shouting as to why Labour MUST oppose but the argument has passed from that to 'keeping Labour away from this mess' and 'being beholden to Mays arbitrary timetable'

None of those arguments seem anything but weak to me. The first one may or may not have an impact at some undefined time in the future but that is not certain and actually there are also risks by not supporting it

The second one is a bit strange I must admit...I have no time for May but I have to say delaying longer would be politically damaging...a year could have passed (and it is not as if the time has been spent wisely). Also pressure from the EU is growing and I am sure no one wants to see the farce of 2019 EU elections

I am still waiting for an explanation how Labour not voting against A50 is such a disaster to be honest....I do not expect to get one

Someone with a suspicious mind could be thinking it was because some people don't really care too much about A50 and see it as a good excuse to relaunch a challenge to the leadershop

Probably.

It is all about internal Labour politics I expect.

Just a stick fashioned by Evil Bitterites to attack the leader.

I see it now.
I am sure in some cases it is

Until someone explains how opposing A50 will help (and how it will be done) then I am suspicious

I accept some people will use it to express their anger at the referendum result....I am sympathetic to that logic

The party position though is, in my view, correct....vote for A50 and try to amend bill and focus on the negotiations

For those who want Labour as a party to vote against invocation I would like to understand what is the reasoning?

The reason is simple. It's wrong to actively vote for something you know will hurt thousands of people. You will come back, no doubt, with "but they promised to vote for it if that was the result of the referendum so it would be wrong not to" but two wrongs don't make a right. It was wrong to promise to do something that would hurt thousands of people if a referendum said so in the first place. Which is why my crisis of faith is in the entire Labour party. I had a great deal of faith in Ed Miliband, I still think he would have been a good PM, but since he resigned I have lost that faith. You repeatedly say Labour can't stop Brexit and that's true, but that's not the point for me personally. The point for me is whether you are for it or against it. In 2015 I voted for a party that opposed an EU referendum. Voting for one subsequently was a huge betrayal for me. If Corbyn comes in for a lot of that anger than that's because he has long wanted this and constantly talks about things like state aid rules which would take us even further out of Europe when I'm looking for a party to support who is focused on keeping us as close as possible to the EU. As long as Corbyn clings onto the leadership, that's not going to be Labour.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 6:05 pm

Hi Ephie.

It is hard to feel warm hearted to people who call you a 'fucking bitch' Ephie. Although for words to hurt it is necessary to feel respect for those who are swearing at you.

Waspish ? Hard not to be darling. You'd have to be a saint not to. Maybe I should be a sweary wasp, that's more the sort of thing that was acceptable to the angry brigade wasn't it.

Swearing at people, calling them passive aggressive while being arrogantly aggressive, calling people Tories, Osborne admirers, and whatever other stuff floats their boats is not going to help get a decent government.

If Corbyn fails - it won't be because of the likes of me, or Tubby, or dear JA, or AngryAsWell, or Willow, or Lost Soul, or even much maligned Hugo. [sorry if I've missed anyone...not intentional]

You are one of the people I respected, and still do. But surely you can see what has happened ?

and if I'm not around tomorrow, please don't think you've [meaning those who fled the nest] driven me away. I'm taking some friends out for a posh lunch and it will take some hours to get dolled up for the occasion.

Corbyn is leading Labour to short term and possibly longer term disaster. I won't apologise for believing that.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 6:06 pm

Ahh

So asking for someone to back up their posts with a bit more than 'I reckon' is 'picking' is it? I know you find it difficult to make a coherent argument yahyah without abuse, sneering or some other of your tricks - Tubby is easily capable of making his own arguments

I think you will find I am not alone on here in finding the arguments on voting against A50 terribly weak, and definitely not worth the emotive criticism of the leadership we have seen from some on here

These is exemplified again by the latest where a delay of 3 months is considered justified against invoking A50 - a vote, if you remember, will be lost

Hindle, I am not the world's biggest fan of Corbyn but I do find the continued focus on him and Labour at the moment is purely a tactic to divert attention from the shambles of a Government

He should be blamed for when he gets things wrong - media management is awful (but you have to say the press is uniformly hostile) and there is quite a lot of fake news being propagated

Reading things on here and the press you would think Corbyn is single-handedly responsible for Brexit and that if Labour voted against A50 it would stop Brexit in its tracks.....all a lie just as it was who said Miliband blocked intervention in Syria.....majority Governments lose because of their own backbenchers vote against them, not anyone else.

Brexit was set by the 2015 GE result.....and Corbyn cannot be blamed for that

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 6:07 pm

HindleA wrote:Cja-the unwarehousing/decarceration progression was partly self interested enlightenment and a cost saving exercise.I don't share such a historic binary view of evil Tories versus good Labour in respect to the sick/disabled,Newton-DLA enactor fought hard for monies as an example.The Labour engendered trope of millions not really not sick has reverberated for decades in collusive biparty arrangement and with obvious consequences of just removing monies anyway.

I was thinking more in terms of a that specific leader, she was a Tory. However, I think it's a myth right-wing governments intrude less into the lives and environments of people while left-wing governments intervene more often.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 6:13 pm

and thank you for posting Ephie.

One of the things that has made me 'waspish' is what many of us here felt was the elephant in the room - the person/s coming to pick at people on FTN - and at least it has been made explicit now.

The hypocrisy of me being scapegoated as a 'fucking bitch' by some people who are themselves only too happy to belittle, swear, misrepresent others and generally be bitchy [male & female bitches} makes me laugh -fortunately - rather than feel angry.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Jan, 2017 6:14 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Will it be of substance though,I need to know more than "baked goods"generalisations.
Baked goods are baked.
Baked means baked!

I started with that one.
I thought I'd try something a little different.