Tuesday 7th February 2017

[refitman]

Morning all.

[SpinningHugo]

"I'm sorry. Are you really saying that Cooper and Kendall were the best candidates in 2015?"

Yes, of course they were.Not perfect by any means, but far better than the male alternatives.

Creasy, Flint and Eagle were also all better than Watson, but were also heavily defeated.

Long-Bailey may do better as she'll have Momentum behind her.

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -tells-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, the House of Commons opposed a Labour amendment that would have forced May to make regular reports back to parliament every two months by 333 to 284 – a majority of 49 for the government.

Another Labour amendment calling for the leaders of the devolved administrations to be consulted and have their views taken into account before any final Brexit deal also failed by 333 votes to 276 – an even bigger government majority of 57.

Little sign of any amendments getting passed so far.

Voting for this bill could well be the end of any parliamentary involvement in the Brexit process at the rate we're going.

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... icai-warns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trade, not poverty, could become focus of £1.3bn UK aid pot, watchdog warns

[SpinningHugo]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -tells-mps

However, the House of Commons opposed a Labour amendment that would have forced May to make regular reports back to parliament every two months by 333 to 284 – a majority of 49 for the government.

Another Labour amendment calling for the leaders of the devolved administrations to be consulted and have their views taken into account before any final Brexit deal also failed by 333 votes to 276 – an even bigger government majority of 57.

Little sign of any amendments getting passed so far.

Voting for this bill could well be the end of any parliamentary involvement in the Brexit process at the rate we're going.

Some, probably the one about non-UK EU citizens who reside here being allowed to stay, will pass before the House of Lords, but will be defeated in the Commons.

The amendments are just noise.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -tells-mps

However, the House of Commons opposed a Labour amendment that would have forced May to make regular reports back to parliament every two months by 333 to 284 – a majority of 49 for the government.

Another Labour amendment calling for the leaders of the devolved administrations to be consulted and have their views taken into account before any final Brexit deal also failed by 333 votes to 276 – an even bigger government majority of 57.

Little sign of any amendments getting passed so far.

Voting for this bill could well be the end of any parliamentary involvement in the Brexit process at the rate we're going.

It seems to be NC99 about the final vote where there could be some traction in the Commons. Later today I think.

And remember the Lords may have a thing or two to say.

[StephenDolan]

Morning all.
Plenty of Whataboutery and additional hom from the Tories and their newspapers wrt Bercow. No discussion of his remit and detailed comments. Funny that.

Trump's unpopular in the UK. Farage and May are playing a politically dangerous game imho backing Trump so heavily.

[StephenDolan]

This is written by SH and I claim my £5.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 65331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tinybgoat]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -tells-mps

However, the House of Commons opposed a Labour amendment that would have forced May to make regular reports back to parliament every two months by 333 to 284 – a majority of 49 for the government.

Another Labour amendment calling for the leaders of the devolved administrations to be consulted and have their views taken into account before any final Brexit deal also failed by 333 votes to 276 – an even bigger government majority of 57.

Little sign of any amendments getting passed so far.

Voting for this bill could well be the end of any parliamentary involvement in the Brexit process at the rate we're going.

I'm clutching at straws here, but If all the amendments are rejected, then there will effectively be a list of ways in which parliamentary scrutiny/involvement has been blocked & some confirmations that 'promises' such as extra money for NHS won't materialise. This could be useful for highlighting some of the shortcomings of brexit.
Also, Seeing as the bill was just for the right to notify/ trigger article 50, is there no possibility of subsequent action in parliament to demand more involvement?

[RogerOThornhill]

Morning all.

Sixty ‘orphan’ schools shunned by academy sponsors

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... sor-ofsted

For Easingwold faces an uncertain future. Last November an academy trust started taking over, but confirmation of the takeover has now been put back until late March at the earliest, leaving parents worried.

Easingwold is one of 60 “orphan” schools that, at least six months after a failed inspection, still have no certainty over who will be running them. In 12 cases, two years have passed since a failed inspection, without a sponsor being found.

The National Union of Teachers describes these cases as symptomatic of “chaotic” changes to education that are letting pupils down.

Oh, the irony of sponsors not willing to take on failing schools when the policy was designed to get sponsors to take on failing schools...

[Lost Soul]

Febraury?

[PorFavor]

Febraury?

Yes. I didn't like to mention it . . .

Febraury is (contrary to popular belief) the cruellest month.

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ck-hole-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IFS warns of steep cuts and tax rises to fill £40bn black hole

With our economy in such poor shape, leaving the EU will be especially painful. It's really quite staggering how much damage a Tory majority government has managed to do in such a short length of time.

[tinybgoat]

Febraury?

Other misspellings are available:
http://www.dumbtionary.com/search/searc ... ry&Match=1

[RogerOThornhill]

The Wright Stuff Verified account
‏@5WrightStuff

CALL 020 7173 5555: TRUMP BAN: SPEAKER'S ATTACK ON FREE SPEECH? John Bercow's decision to ban President Trump from addressing #parliament

The excitable pro-free speech lobby need to be careful about overusing it otherwise they'll start to make themselves look ridiculous. Especially over a POTUS whose problem is that he won't shut up!

[PorFavor]

Trade, not poverty, could become focus of £1.3bn UK aid pot, watchdog warns

Independent Commission for Aid Impact says new prosperity fund is ‘not sufficiently transparent’, as critics warn that it fails to prioritise reducing poverty (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... icai-warns

[pk1]

Febraury?

Yes. I didn't like to mention it . . .

Febraury is (contrary to popular belief) the cruellest month.

It certainly is. Every time there is one, I age another year

Regardless of my ever increasing age however, I bring cake - please, help yourselves

[StephenDolan]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ck-hole-uk

IFS warns of steep cuts and tax rises to fill £40bn black hole

With our economy in such poor shape, leaving the EU will be especially painful. It's really quite staggering how much damage a Tory majority government has managed to do in such a short length of time.

£40bn? Easy peasy for the chancellor, he filled a defence £25bn blackhole with the stroke of a pen.

It's not staggering to me. What *is* staggering to me is the lack of linking cause and effect by Joe public.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I left the Febraurys on the relevant posts but it's fixed now

[PorFavor]

@pk1

Happy birthday!

[PaulfromYorkshire]

@pk1

Happy birthday!

Indeed!

[tinybgoat]

Happy Birthday pk.
Poppies aren't good for goats, but otherwise, yum.

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ck-hole-uk

IFS warns of steep cuts and tax rises to fill £40bn black hole

With our economy in such poor shape, leaving the EU will be especially painful. It's really quite staggering how much damage a Tory majority government has managed to do in such a short length of time.

£40bn? Easy peasy for the chancellor, he filled a defence £25bn blackhole with the stroke of a pen.

It's not staggering to me. What *is* staggering to me is the lack of linking cause and effect by Joe public.

I think there's quite a bit of creative thinking going on that enables people to convince themselves that what they want, which is tax cuts etc for themselves, is actually in the best interests of the country. Strong, effective leaders give people what they need, not what they want. Giving people Brexit, despite no proven, factual evidence that it is beneficial, is a failure of democracy, IMO. The art of the politician is to persuade with effective arguments that what is in the national interest is also in the individual's interest. We, as a nation, have become monumentally crap at that and a survival of the fittest free for all has resulted. There are great examples of pooling of resources for the benefit of everyone at the local level, but at the national level, devolution is being used to reverse the pooling of national resources. In the long run this will be to the detriment of everyone, not just the poorer areas left to go it alone. Our withdrawal from the EU is part of the same pattern. The pooling of resources across the EU has been beneficial to all its members, on the whole. The idea of everyone putting in for tea and biscuits used to be so common it the was an obvious thing to do. Now we've turned into a nation of biscuit hoarders, jealously labelling our jammy dodgers for our use only. No more communal cake for the us. It's just so horribly mean spirited and depressing.

[AnatolyKasparov]

"I'm sorry. Are you really saying that Cooper and Kendall were the best candidates in 2015?"

Yes, of course they were.Not perfect by any means, but far better than the male alternatives.

Creasy, Flint and Eagle were also all better than Watson, but were also heavily defeated

As you know, I voted for Creasy (as you did IIRC)

Watson won, however, not because he had male genitalia but because he is an old-style machine politician who knew what buttons to press and how to organise - his campaign was all but home and hosed even before the others had any chance to gain traction.

(and let's not forget that unlike Corbyn, he still had to go to transfers)

I have to disagree with your comments on the leadership contest, though. Despite his flaws, I thought Burnham was the best candidate available at the time - if genius Harman hadn't stitched him up so crudely, who knows? It is a tragedy that Kendall does not have better politics which would make her more acceptable to the party mainstream - as it was, I still put her second due to the class and good humour with which she dealt with some truly nasty and vicious abuse during the campaign.

[Willow904]

Nadine Dorries on BBC News 24 at the moment saying that Labour MPs who cheered Bercow last night are now regretting it because the love for President Trump is so great and palpable among the British public and their constituents they have realised they will be in electoral trouble if they don't repent, expel Bercow for his outrageous commie behaviour and welcome President Trump with open arms.

(I may have paraphrased somewhat. Or a lot, in fact. Ok, she didn't actually say that at all, but it was definately the drift. Not just that Bercow shouldn't have been partisan, but that everyone except a handful of Labour MPs disagree with him.)

[AnatolyKasparov]

Well, if Dorries is the "best" that side of the debate can put forward it speaks for itself IMO.

[tinybgoat]

Lawyer behind petition calling for cancelling Donald Trump's UK state visit could be disciplined by CPS

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 64861.html

[HindleA]

http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/med ... ite-paper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


RF
Six key charts ahead of the housing White Paper

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Twitter going mad over Corbyn imposing a 3-line whip "tomorrow night" but is there a vote?

I'm definitely no expert on parliamentary procedure, but I'd thought we were at Committee stage now....

Help!

[AnatolyKasparov]

Interesting piece by Wells, which matches my own instincts.

[PorFavor]

o 11:25

Labour MPs will be ordered to vote for the article 50 bill at third reading tomorrow, PoliticsHome’s Kevin Schofield reports.

Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor)

BREAKING: Shadow Cabinet agree a 3-line whip for Labour MPs to vote for Article 50 tomorrow night. Over to you Clive and Diane ...
February 7, 2017 (Politics Live, Guardian)

[HindleA]

Happy Birthday to PK1.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

o 11:25

Labour MPs will be ordered to vote for the article 50 bill at third reading tomorrow, PoliticsHome’s Kevin Schofield reports.

Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor)

BREAKING: Shadow Cabinet agree a 3-line whip for Labour MPs to vote for Article 50 tomorrow night. Over to you Clive and Diane ...
February 7, 2017 (Politics Live, Guardian)

Thank you

[AnatolyKasparov]

There is some talk that despite a 3-line whip, the leadership may make this an "exceptional case" that means front benchers can vote against/abstain without losing their jobs.

Apparently there are precedents for this?

[PorFavor]

People are more likely to think Brexit will be good for Britain than bad for Britain, even though they are also more likely to think it will be bad for the economy than good for the economy. (Politics Live, Guardian)

??????

[gilsey]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit

If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony Wells

For now, however, Labour’s current position of accepting Brexit but pushing for single-market membership afterwards appears to be the one likely to win the widest (if not the most enthusiastic) support.

Is that their position though? It's not clear to me.

[AnatolyKasparov]

The first question involves relatively intangible non-economic things, I guess?

[Willow904]

People are more likely to think Brexit will be good for Britain than bad for Britain, even though they are also more likely to think it will be bad for the economy than good for the economy. (Politics Live, Guardian)

??????

Does no one worry about losing their jobs, anymore?!!

[gilsey]

People are more likely to think Brexit will be good for Britain than bad for Britain, even though they are also more likely to think it will be bad for the economy than good for the economy. (Politics Live, Guardian)

??????

I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.
Britain is not only it's economy.

[PorFavor]

People are more likely to think Brexit will be good for Britain than bad for Britain, even though they are also more likely to think it will be bad for the economy than good for the economy. (Politics Live, Guardian)

??????

I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.
Britain is not only it's economy.

What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?

[StephenDolan]

??????

I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.
Britain is not only it's economy.

What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?

The perceived and real changes of the make-up of the population.

[HindleA]

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1569305 ... rules-from" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Labour Press
Andrew Gwynne response to new rules new rules from the DFT covering access to taxis for disabled people

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Why do disabled people still have to put up with this indignity?
Frances Ryan

[SpinningHugo]

This is written by SH and I claim my £5.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 65331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is an interesting book that will be written about when and why Labour ceased to be a party of government.

I wouldn't put the hinge date as 2013 as the author does, but 25 September 2010 when Ed beat his brother by less than 1% (and lost among the members). I don't think labour would have won in 2015 under a different leader, but it would have been in government, there would have been no Corbyn. and no EU referendum. So, Charlie Whelan is the main villain. I have, of course, thought that for over six years now.

But that is unfair to an extent. Four or five major structural problems weakened Labour and are nothing really to do with either Miliband or Corbyn.

1) Scotland. the rise of the Nats was unstoppable in retrospect. There were problems with Scottish Labour, with too many weak MPs taking their constituents for granted, but the power of sectionalism could not have been resisted by anyone. 18 months ago there was a semi-plausible story about how it was all the Blairites fault and that a return to proper socialism would win back Scotland. That looks laughable now.

As Scotland has descended into Nats v Unionists, Labour has been left nowhere. I can't see what Labour's path to recovery there is.

2) The EU. Someday at some point a referendum was coming. The fundamental division between most Labour MPs/liberal metropolitans, and the large numbers of Labour''s core working class support has been revealed, not created. Again, as the battle has become Leave v Remain, Labour has been left nowhere. Again, on this I can't see Labour's path to recovery, and in the medium term this is a sore that will get worse.

3) The collapse of the New Labour coalition. This is related to 2). Most obviously this relates to immigration. Evidence and reason tells us that immigration is unequivocally a good thing for the UK, and save for a few pinch points is just good for everyone. Lots of what should be Labour's core support just don't see it like that. What has historically hidden Labour's weakness has been Ukips. As Ukips have collapsed, with their votes drifting back to the Tories, so the Tory lead has become insurmountable.

4) The electoral system. Prior to 2010 the electoral system had favoured Labour (most obviously in 2005). Indeed before 2015 it had been thought that the Tories would need a much bigger vote lead to obtain a majority than they did. With the equalisation of seats that is coming, Labour is going to need a big lead. that is very implausible.

5) Iraq. This can stand as a symbol for the disillusion of the left with the entire New Labour approach. What is the point of compromising to win if all that Labour does in power is [invade Iraq - insert other thing disapproved of.] This was fatal to the credibility of the centerist approach. I don't think this can be overestimated, as those whose formative political memory was the Iraq War have grown up and become members.

Labour is now too weak to win, too strong to die, causing a dilemma for those, like me, who'd prefer it if we didn't have perpetual Tory rule. Stay and fight, try to get the party to adopt a viable winning position. Abandon it, leave it to Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne to decisively fail, so that a new political reconfiguration is forced on the existing parties.

I think your choice is determined by how sentimental you are, and how comfortable you are campaigning for people like Corbyn/Milne/McDonnell and their views on things like the IRA. The choice for me was quite easy, and liberating, in the end. But I think the Tories are now in government until 2030.

I hope the above at least shows that I don't think the "Strange Death" of the Labour party is just attributable to individuals like Miliband, Corbyn or even Blair personally.

[StephenDolan]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw



Why do disabled people still have to put up with this indignity?
Frances Ryan

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/07/disable ... alk-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PaulfromYorkshire]

??????

I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.
Britain is not only it's economy.

What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?

Sure there may be some racism here, but also the period of greater EU integration has coincided with a significant increase in inequality in the UK. So, many people won't really feel the EU has helped them even if they can acknowledge in the abstract that the economy has benefited.

[SpinningHugo]

There is some talk that despite a 3-line whip, the leadership may make this an "exceptional case" that means front benchers can vote against/abstain without losing their jobs.

Apparently there are precedents for this?

Are there?

You could go back to the nineteenth century before the party system had become properly established i suppose.

bBut I don't think you can have a three line whip that front benchers and whips(!) can ignore.

[HindleA]

http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2017/02/ba ... hU.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Banks are lending to buy houses, not build businesses

[StephenDolan]

I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.
Britain is not only it's economy.

What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?

Sure there may be some racism here, but also the period of greater EU integration has coincided with a significant increase in inequality in the UK. So, many people won't really feel the EU has helped them even if they can acknowledge in the abstract that the economy has benefited.

They might want to take a walk around their neighbourhood, town, city and see how many EU flag stickers there are on all manner of infrastructure.