Monday 20th February 2017

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:05 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... sels-visit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's politics and it's our press, so probably a load of crap, but I found this potentially ironic.

On his first visit to Brussels since assuming office, Pence said on Monday the new administration wanted to work in partnership with the EU.

If only the UK could be a gateway to Europe ...

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:07 pm

speaking of ironic (from the Telegraph in 2013)

But the core message to David Cameron, as he prepares to make a speech setting out his views on Europe ahead of a referendum pencilled in for after the next election, is unmistakable.
Stay out of the single currency (which admittedly is a change of tack for many of them), stay in the single market and negotiate improvements to directives that are a fetter to trade around. But do not make us peripheral or weaken the significant influence we already have, and do not encourage an EU exit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... itain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:07 pm

Our former fishpointer general.
What.
A.
Knob.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:12 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Guardian/ICM poll:

Con: 44% (+2)
Labour: 26% (-1)
Ukip: 13% (+1)
Lib Dems: 8% (-2)
Greens: 4% (no change)

Con lead: 18 pts (+3)

20/02/17

When will this damn coup stop?
Its effects are still being felt, just as those behind it intended. If they couldn't have "their" party "back", they fully intended to poison the earth.

And they have.
Either you deal with "the poison", or you walk.

Who could have guessed that Corbyn, with his history, couldn't command loyalty?

And that is one of the reasons I think Corbyn is going fairly soon, even if Labour hold both contests this week.

Does not alter the fact that the "coup" was a stupid, venal, and almost criminally shortsighted act.

The real question is if the damage will endure after Jez goes........

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:20 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

‏

@OwenSmith_MP 2h2 hours ago
More
Just received my first ever 'reprimand' letter for breaking the whip (on Article 50). Thinking of framing it...

Think my response to JC would have been shorter tbh...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:27 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... ble-cancel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HMS Brexit still has a rocky journey ahead.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:28 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... -of-pounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pension changes could cost 11m Britons thousands of pounds

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defi ... the-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ainability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:30 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/just ... profession" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

News story
Justine Greening's vision for the teaching profession

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:31 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -frequency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Consultation outcome
Children's social care providers: fees and inspection frequency

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:32 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 15-to-2020" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corporate report
DWP: single departmental plan 2015 to 2020

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:33 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... factsheets" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guidance
Homelessness Reduction Bill: policy factsheets

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:34 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... c-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correspondence
Work, Health and Disability Green Paper, improving lives: SSAC response

(on which Reform's reduce all ESA to JSA Pickles sits)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:34 pm

I need to think and make my point clearer

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:38 pm

Current Tory government gov.uk website updates are a morass of endless hyperlinks of dead-end, late-night, television shopping channel advertisements.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:43 pm

pk1 wrote:

‏
@OwenSmith_MP 2h2 hours ago
More
Just received my first ever 'reprimand' letter for breaking the whip (on Article 50). Thinking of framing it...
Think my response to JC would have been shorter tbh...

What did Corbyn do with his first 'reprimand' letter?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:46 pm

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-02- ... s-dementia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Baddiel reveals the pain and humour of living with his dad’s dementia

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:49 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its effects are still being felt, just as those behind it intended. If they couldn't have "their" party "back", they fully intended to poison the earth.

And they have.
Either you deal with "the poison", or you walk.

Who could have guessed that Corbyn, with his history, couldn't command loyalty?
And that is one of the reasons I think Corbyn is going fairly soon, even if Labour hold both contests this week.

Does not alter the fact that the "coup" was a stupid, venal, and almost criminally shortsighted act.

The real question is if the damage will endure after Jez goes........

I hope the Labour party is stronger after Corbyn's leadership.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:51 pm

Just to be clear, I think Corbyn wants Labour stronger, too.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:52 pm

#CarlBildt

Last year there were app 50% more murders only in Orlando/Orange in Florida, where Trump spoke the other day, than in all of Sweden. Bad.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:55 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:speaking of ironic (from the Telegraph in 2013)

But the core message to David Cameron, as he prepares to make a speech setting out his views on Europe ahead of a referendum pencilled in for after the next election, is unmistakable.
Stay out of the single currency (which admittedly is a change of tack for many of them), stay in the single market and negotiate improvements to directives that are a fetter to trade around. But do not make us peripheral or weaken the significant influence we already have, and do not encourage an EU exit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... itain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How the hell does three years alter EU sentiment to such a striking degree, please?!

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:57 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... -of-pounds

Pension changes could cost 11m Britons thousands of pounds

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defi ... the-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ainability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Currently, 75% of pension schemes in Britain increase payouts to members each year using RPI rather than CPI, and usually the scheme rules and legislation prevent companies from lowering their promises.

But the paper asks: “Should the government consider a statutory override to allow schemes to move to a different index, provided that protection against inflation is maintained?”

I posted about this a few weeks ago, when mr gilsey got back pay from his company scheme because they'd changed to CPI on govt instructions and then found it was illegal.
Tories can't let it be, can't have the plebs having anything good.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:03 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/me ... me-9847322" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Members of Britain’s biggest pension scheme fear Tory money-grabbers will put retirement income at risk

The local government workers’ schemes have 5.4 million members and funds valued at £213 billion

(LGPS)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:07 pm

CJA-what are you looking for on Gov.UK?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:10 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Its effects are still being felt, just as those behind it intended. If they couldn't have "their" party "back", they fully intended to poison the earth.

And they have.
Either you deal with "the poison", or you walk.

Who could have guessed that Corbyn, with his history, couldn't command loyalty?
And that is one of the reasons I think Corbyn is going fairly soon, even if Labour hold both contests this week.

Does not alter the fact that the "coup" was a stupid, venal, and almost criminally shortsighted act.

The real question is if the damage will endure after Jez goes........

The decline in support does.not support this claim. It has been slow and steady, neither increasing during the coup nor decreasing after it happened.

Europe has been dominating the news. The PLP.critics have been silent.

Or quit.

When is "fairly soon"? Next six months?

I think you, like so much of the soft left, have misunderstood Corbyn/McDonnell/Milne's agenda.

A normal leader would have quit long ago.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:10 pm

Oh blimey. Thanks HA.

Hope they don't let Javid loose on the NHS pension scheme. I started getting mine last year.

Already had a letter from John Lewis, both my husband and myself have JL pensions, to say pension accrued before 1997 will now be increased at CPI not RPI.

Wonder why Mr Gilsey's change was ruled illegal and yet John Lewis have changed theirs so recently? Would have thought John Lewis would have got the legal side of things well sorted.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:10 pm

HindleA wrote:CJA-what are you looking for on Gov.UK?

It's what I found last night after an innocuous link from you inspiring my recent reflection on the Tory government gov uk website
'Welcome to Great!'
Tories don't have shame, dignity, honour or talent

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:12 pm

Owen Jones is a brave lad.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:19 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Either you deal with "the poison", or you walk.

Who could have guessed that Corbyn, with his history, couldn't command loyalty?
And that is one of the reasons I think Corbyn is going fairly soon, even if Labour hold both contests this week.

Does not alter the fact that the "coup" was a stupid, venal, and almost criminally shortsighted act.

The real question is if the damage will endure after Jez goes........
I hope the Labour party is stronger after Corbyn's leadership.

Than before it? How could it be.

Much of the loss of support will be permanent (or at least verying term)

The brand is seriously damaged now. Even with a new credible leader the kind of party Labour is perceived as being has changed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:20 pm

Yahyah,a few years yet for me (LPGS)-in previous circumstances I had had a case for receiving early(compassionate grounds) but part of an earlier change bumped the age up by five years just as I was reaching the possibility,not that I am taking these things personally in any shape,manner or form.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:22 pm

I was thanking you for the links HA.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:23 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:The decline in support does.not support this claim. It has been slow and steady, neither increasing during the coup nor decreasing after it happened.

Europe has been dominating the news. The PLP.critics have been silent.

Or quit.

When is "fairly soon"? Next six months?

I think you, like so much of the soft left, have misunderstood Corbyn/McDonnell/Milne's agenda.

A normal leader would have quit long ago.

(cJA edit)
I think you're wrong but I'd be a liar if I didn't admit this analysis makes me feel emotionally, personally uncomfortable. No one is responsible for my feelings but me and I accept the worst can be real. And if the worst is real, I can deal with it responsibly. That means Labour isn't lost, for me. I hope it's not as nefarious a thing as you're suggesting though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:26 pm

People are generally grateful for my use of Lynx,which is nice.I was referring to Governmental actions.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:28 pm

I assume Corbyn's sending Putin a stiff letter like that if he invades NATO allies.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:30 pm

yahyah wrote:Owen Jones is a brave lad.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not really, how is that "brave"?

You have said yourself that Corbyn's defenders on social media are a lot quieter than they used to be.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:31 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I hope the Labour party is stronger after Corbyn's leadership.
Than before it? How could it be.

Much of the loss of support will be permanent (or at least verying term)

The brand is seriously damaged now. Even with a new credible leader the kind of party Labour is perceived as being has changed.

It can be stronger now because Labour people are stronger now working for a stronger Labour party now. You gave up when you gave up if you ever signed up and that decision is your own. It's none of my business, your support or no support of whatever you support or don't support. I haven't given up on Labour and neither have others. You might have known that if you stuck around. Labour weren't ever supposed to do as well as Labour governments have done for the UK. But Labour did do well for people and country.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:34 pm

My other half's just made me chuckle.

I read him Owen Jones' tweet. He then told me about the problem the band that he was part of as a teenager had with an underperforming bass player.
The lad didn't improve and no one could face giving him the boot.
So at one of their rehearsals the other band members told the poor lad they were all leaving the band.
They changed their name and met the next week with a new bass player and went on to the dizzy heights

of supporting The Nashville Teens at The Imperial Ballroom at Nelson.

Not sure what he meant me to infer from that as regards the Labour party.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:35 pm

yahyah wrote:Owen Jones is a brave lad.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How many polls don't get published, have we found out that information? Thanks to StephenDolan, I ask myself that question now. Terrible polling result though, yeah, sure enough.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:37 pm

Kevin Maguire with an interesting snippet in his Daily Mirror punditry today.

Last week, he put aside an hour of his radio show for people who wanted to defend Corbyn. A year ago, the phone lines would have been jammed (even if polling wasn't great then either) But now, only a handful of people were willing to unequivocally back him.

Most so called "Corbynistas" are now ready to move on from Jez - they just don't want a counter revolution when he goes (they very much saw last year's "coup" as an attempt to achieve that) And yes, I think most of them would accept Lewis as his successor (some with enthusiasm)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:37 pm

yahyah wrote:My other half's just made me chuckle.

I read him Owen Jones' tweet. He then told me about the problem the band that he was part of as a teenager had with an underperforming bass player.
The lad didn't improve and no one could face giving him the boot.
So at one of their rehearsals the other band members told the poor lad they were all leaving the band.
They changed their name and met the next week with a new bass player and went on to the dizzy heights of supporting The Nashville Teens at The Imperial Ballroom at Nelson.

Not sure what he meant me to infer from that as regards the Labour party.

Things get worked out well enough without catastrophe enveloping us all for eternity.
That's what I think it means.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:38 pm

I like Mr yahyah
creative, funny, resilient and a musician!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:38 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... king-group" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corporate report
EU exit, universities, research and innovation: stakeholder working group

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:39 pm

Good from Paul Krugman.

Trump assuming, in that prudent Republican way, that growth will be over 3% pa.

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/ ... y-scenario" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The demographics don't support that. They were much better for Reagan and he only averaged 3.4%, with all his deficits.

Remember too that some supporters of Sanders claimed his plan would raise growth by 5.3%.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:40 pm

RIP Steve Hewlett

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:41 pm

citizenJA wrote:Just to be clear, I think Corbyn wants Labour stronger, too.

Okay, he may be cranky. He'll be okay. He'll cheer up and be pleased.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:44 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -by-police" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marine Le Pen's Front National headquarters raided by police
French far-right party dismisses police search as ‘media operation whose goal is to disturb course of presidential campaign’

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:44 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Owen Jones is a brave lad.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really, how is that "brave"?

You have said yourself that Corbyn's defenders on social media are a lot quieter than they used to be.

Quieter, but not non existent are they ?

He's brave, or foolhardy maybe, because he is already getting the blame for being part of the anti-Corbyn MSM. As if voters can't make up their own minds about anything.

You have your views, and tell us about them.
I happen to think sticking yourself above the parapet where Corbyn is concerned is not for the fainthearted. Sorry if that upsets you.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:45 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... -58-cancer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:45 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -by-police

Marine Le Pen's Front National headquarters raided by police
French far-right party dismisses police search as ‘media operation whose goal is to disturb course of presidential campaign’

She's moaning that the FN are being persecuted.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:51 pm

citizenJA wrote:I like Mr yahyah
creative, funny, resilient and a musician!

He's lovely. Cheered me up the other day playing The Rise & Fall of Flingel Bunt on a kazoo and drumming on a plastic washing up bowl. He can get a tune out of anything. Very useful to deal with post Article 50 vote blues.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Kevin Maguire with an interesting snippet in his Daily Mirror punditry today.

Last week, he put aside an hour of his radio show for people who wanted to defend Corbyn. A year ago, the phone lines would have been jammed (even if polling wasn't great then either) But now, only a handful of people were willing to unequivocally back him.

Most so called "Corbynistas" are now ready to move on from Jez - they just don't want a counter revolution when he goes (they very much saw last year's "coup" as an attempt to achieve that) And yes, I think most of them would accept Lewis as his successor (some with enthusiasm)

Great post. Important, positive and realistic. Mr citizen was inspired by Corbyn and re-joined the Labour party. Mr citizen may defend Corbyn during his talks with others with less enthusiasm for the current Labour leader but no one feels ugly or tense during these conversations. I know Labour is functional. Mr citizen retains his support and membership of the Labour party, he's working daily for Labour. The Labour party is more than one leader. It has to be. We're not Tories.