Monday 20th February 2017

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:54 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Kevin Maguire with an interesting snippet in his Daily Mirror punditry today.

Last week, he put aside an hour of his radio show for people who wanted to defend Corbyn. A year ago, the phone lines would have been jammed (even if polling wasn't great then either) But now, only a handful of people were willing to unequivocally back him.

Most so called "Corbynistas" are now ready to move on from Jez - they just don't want a counter revolution when he goes (they very much saw last year's "coup" as an attempt to achieve that) And yes, I think most of them would accept Lewis as his successor (some with enthusiasm)

They may be quieter on twitter but there are numerous facebook pages set up purely for idolising him. Few ever acknowledge the state of the party & instead attack in packs should a foolhardy soul attempt to discuss it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:54 pm

yahyah wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I like Mr yahyah
creative, funny, resilient and a musician!
He's lovely. Cheered me up the other day playing The Rise & Fall of Flingel Bunt on a kazoo and drumming on a plastic washing up bowl. He can get a tune out of anything. Very useful to deal with post Article 50 vote blues.

We ain't post nothing yet, babe.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:56 pm

citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I hope the Labour party is stronger after Corbyn's leadership.
Than before it? How could it be.

Much of the loss of support will be permanent (or at least verying term)

The brand is seriously damaged now. Even with a new credible leader the kind of party Labour is perceived as being has changed.
It can be stronger now because Labour people are stronger now working for a stronger Labour party now. You gave up when you gave up if you ever signed up and that decision is your own. It's none of my business, your support or no support of whatever you support or don't support. I haven't given up on Labour and neither have others. You might have known that if you stuck around. Labour weren't ever supposed to do as well as Labour governments have done for the UK. But Labour did do well for people and country.

One of tbe major reasons I left was the large number of new members whose views I didn't share.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:58 pm

yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Owen Jones is a brave lad.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really, how is that "brave"?

You have said yourself that Corbyn's defenders on social media are a lot quieter than they used to be.
Quieter, but not non existent are they ?

He's brave, or foolhardy maybe, because he is already getting the blame for being part of the anti-Corbyn MSM. As if voters can't make up their own minds about anything.

You have your views, and tell us about them.
I happen to think sticking yourself above the parapet where Corbyn is concerned is not for the fainthearted. Sorry if that upsets you.

Upset, moi?

According to some Corbyn diehards still out there, OJ is part of a super treacherous journo "Gang of Four" promoting Clive Lewis (himself, Sam Kriss, Abi Wilkinson and Ellie Mae O'Hagan - if you responded "who?" to any of the above, you are forgiven) They're even referenced in a Downfall parody now

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:06 pm

Lovely posts JA.

I used to feel positive but the last few years have knocked it out of me. What the Tories have done, what they want to do, what they'll be able to do if Labour can't sort themselves out.

It is people like you who will make the Labour party worth rejoining. Good hearted people, generous hearted people.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:07 pm

Never know when you are being picky, being the loyal party member, or just playing devil's advocate Anatoly.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:08 pm

Come back for Ed?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:09 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Than before it? How could it be.

Much of the loss of support will be permanent (or at least verying term)

The brand is seriously damaged now. Even with a new credible leader the kind of party Labour is perceived as being has changed.
It can be stronger now because Labour people are stronger now working for a stronger Labour party now. You gave up when you gave up if you ever signed up and that decision is your own. It's none of my business, your support or no support of whatever you support or don't support. I haven't given up on Labour and neither have others. You might have known that if you stuck around. Labour weren't ever supposed to do as well as Labour governments have done for the UK. But Labour did do well for people and country.
One of tbe major reasons I left was the large number of new members whose views I didn't share.

People going to have different views. It's weird when people don't have disagreements. The Labour party members, affiliates, supporters and voters were there before lots of new members came on board. I know a lot about fervent new members of groups inspired joining up. Fervent doesn't last, it's effervescent. I joined Labour when Labour weren't doing so hot because the UK Labour party is a historical success. I like Labour party values. Democratic socialists, yeah.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:10 pm

Yes, I have wondered who they are.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:11 pm

yahyah wrote:Yes, I have wondered who they are.

They ate all the chocolate but the good news is others have replenished the supply. I expect that kind of thing, it happens all the time, all over the world.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:14 pm

Christ.

Trump reckons the arguments over NATO spending need to be sorted out "by the end of the year".

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:17 pm

yahyah wrote:Lovely posts JA.

I used to feel positive but the last few years have knocked it out of me. What the Tories have done, what they want to do, what they'll be able to do if Labour can't sort themselves out.

It is people like you who will make the Labour party worth rejoining. Good hearted people, generous hearted people.

Thank you.

I met the funniest bus driver today. He was wonderful. I bantered with him and he liked it because driving is a tough job, you know? People laughed together. I've got a funny accent. I come from some place else. No one treats me bad. The bus driver. It was definitely the bus driver today replenished my happiness.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Not really, how is that "brave"?

You have said yourself that Corbyn's defenders on social media are a lot quieter than they used to be.
Quieter, but not non existent are they ?

He's brave, or foolhardy maybe, because he is already getting the blame for being part of the anti-Corbyn MSM. As if voters can't make up their own minds about anything.

You have your views, and tell us about them.
I happen to think sticking yourself above the parapet where Corbyn is concerned is not for the fainthearted. Sorry if that upsets you.
Upset, moi?

According to some Corbyn diehards still out there, OJ is part of a super treacherous journo "Gang of Four" promoting Clive Lewis (himself, Sam Kriss, Abi Wilkinson and Ellie Mae O'Hagan - if you responded "who?" to any of the above, you are forgiven) They're even referenced in a Downfall parody now

Lewis couldn't get on the ballot even if the McDonnell rule change went through (which I doubt it will). Long-Bailey is the anointed one now, astonishing as that may seem.

Corbyn isn't going anywhere until the succession is secure.

Which means he isn't going anywhere. Despite wishful thinking.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:22 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ce-scandal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ireland PM Enda Kenny expected to resign over police scandal

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:26 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa- ... ow_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Robert Mugabe: Give Donald Trump a chance

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:26 pm

Rebecca Wrong-Daily as Leader is someone's idea of a very bad joke.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:33 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... files-show" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Star of postwar German cinema was Soviet spy, declassified files show
Marika Rökk revealed as Soviet agent working from 1940s onwards for network passing Third Reich secrets to Moscow

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... s-new-york" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Russian envoy to UN dies in New York

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:38 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... al-lecture" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speech
CPRE Annual Lecture

(Campaign To Protect Rural England)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:43 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -exporters" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'No deal' Brexit would mean £6bn in extra costs for UK exporters

These are tariff costs. Also non-tariff costs. And the distinct possibility that production could be moved to the Single Market pre-emptively.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:33 pm

Philip Hammond looks like he's got a problem with business rate rises. Osborne put the revaluation off, and it's kicking in big time now.

Never mind, another black hole won't make any difference.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:34 pm

Angela Eagle wasn't very good there. Grant Shapps criticizing his own government and being open to changing business rates, she kept doing party political stuff.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ng-olympic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GB Badminton ‘staggered’ after UK Sport rejects seven Tokyo funding appeals
• Badminton funding slashed to zero, while archery and fencing hit

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:36 pm

Given that the Lords started on Brexit today, might that not explain why Blair tried to get his points out there last week?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:59 pm

Another good article by McGovern.

She can be a bit too 'wordy' when it comes to interviews imho, but her pieces are usually worth reflecting upon.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... mic-growth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:03 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... me-closure" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MPs warn over child refugees sleeping rough after Dubs scheme closure

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:16 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Another good article by McGovern.

She can be a bit too 'wordy' when it comes to interviews imho, but her pieces are usually worth reflecting upon.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... mic-growth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She's the acceptable face of Progress.

Talking of whom, I noted she pulled out of an initiative when McDonnell referred to Progress as having a "hard right agenda". Given that his deputy, Sheema Malhotra, was a vice chair, it was a pretty stupid remark. I guess that was the High Jezzite period.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:19 pm

Y'know that thing that Boris promised wouldn't happen?

British Muslim teacher denied entry to US on school trip

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... chool-trip

Oh...it happened.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:24 pm

I posted early because

Very often reports etc become available at midnight to post to myself seemed redundant.
People have left and/or decide to read/stay according to presence of particular posters-brave repeater of variations of the same theme or deliberate usurper/diverter/underminer who knows this/cries buckets/professes innocence whom restricts/courageously states in the face of relentless pressure,if not at risk of life and limb of what people can't mention but somehow always do on permanent repeat button.

So other topics,if people so wish,within,without,inbetween.

Delete above as appropriate.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:29 pm

@HindleA

I read and appreciate your wee small hours posts (I often get up during the night). I'm just too knackered to respond. But - thank you.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:32 pm

Looking at HMP Pentonville. What a long run of disaster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Pentonville" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It holds 1300 inmates. If Cameron hadn't crapped on Kenneth Clarke as the Justice Department and replaced him with Grayling, we could have easily knocked that number off the prison population, and closed the jail by now. The site could be worth £200m. Probably a fair bit less if the buildings are to be retained, but even so.

And with London a much more affluent city than it was, does it need huge inner city jails anyway?

I forgot Gove had a plan for that. Whether he'd have followed through, I don't know. But Truss has put the kibosh on it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:38 pm

Wife got back from work and told me about the cat's escapades this morning.

Apparently she was running around the dining room (cat not wife) so she was let out into the garden...and then wife observed the cat chasing a fully-grown fox around the garden....

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:02 pm

acob Rees-Mogg responded that it was out of order “to refer to pimping out our sovereign” and argued that no one had complained when Emperor Hirohito came on a state visit to the UK

Er...

October 1971: Emperor Hirohito, Japan's wartime head of state, makes his first state visit to Britain. He is "welcomed" by silent crowds in London. Former PoWs turn their backs on him.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:04 pm

He refers to "the Rape of Nanking", which is the title of an apparently bollocks book by Iris Chang.

Post by **adam** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:12 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:He refers to "the Rape of Nanking", which is the title of an apparently bollocks book by Iris Chang.

and a horrendous wartime massacre by the Japanese in China.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:21 pm

Rape or Massacre of Nanking? It got a lot of attention when the Iris Chang book came out.

More brains trust:

Nigel Evans, MP for Ribble Valley, warned against sneering at the 61 million Americans who voted for the president, describing them as “the forgotten people”.

The people who voted for him are richer than the people who didn't, and pretty much the people who always vote Republican.

Post by **adam** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:22 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Rape or Massacre of Nanking? It got a lot of attention when the Iris Chang book came out.

More brains trust:

Nigel Evans, MP for Ribble Valley, warned against sneering at the 61 million Americans who voted for the president, describing them as “the forgotten people”.
The people who voted for him are richer than the people who didn't, and pretty much the people who always vote Republican.

They're easy to forget as there are so many more who voted for Clinton.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:38 pm

HindleA wrote:I posted early because

Very often reports etc become available at midnight to post to myself seemed redundant.
People have left and/or decide to read/stay according to presence of particular posters-brave repeater of variations of the same theme or deliberate usurper/diverter/underminer who knows this/cries buckets/professes innocence whom restricts/courageously states in the face of relentless pressure,if not at risk of life and limb of what people can't mention but somehow always do on permanent repeat button.

So other topics,if people so wish,within,without,inbetween.

Delete above as appropriate.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:38 pm

Oh dear...

(((Adam Rothberg)))
‏@AdamRothberg

Follow
More
Statement: After careful consideration @simonschuster and its @threshold_books have cancelled publication of Dangerous by Milo Yiannopoulos

I doubt there are many who will defend Milo now...even La Mensch has deserted him.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:42 pm

Excellent news.

Surely some brave alt-right publisher will step in.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:44 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Wife got back from work and told me about the cat's escapades this morning.

Apparently she was running around the dining room (cat not wife) so she was let out into the garden...and then wife observed the cat chasing a fully-grown fox around the garden....

foxes queue up with neighbourhood cats to be fed
the cats seem fine with the arrangement

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:49 pm

Hammond's in trouble with business rates, as I said earlier.

Tory Brexit Tax. That sounds like a slogan. Opposition leader might fancy that one for the budget.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:52 pm

Perhaps there's more inter-species disquiet than I know
Foxes howl nearly every night (not for very long) in the hedges nearby
I didn't know what the noise was until Mr citizen translated

Post by **adam** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:14 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hammond's in trouble with business rates, as I said earlier.

Tory Brexit Tax. That sounds like a slogan. Opposition leader might fancy that one for the budget.

They kicked it two years downhill rather than impose rises before the last general election because they expected to lose and presumed that Labour would inherit the problem. If I were to wish to appear hopelessly naive, I would wonder when we're going to see a Council Tax revaluation and rebanding, as there hasn't been one since it was introduced 24 years ago...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:19 pm

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/23776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Smokescreen of the Work, Health and Disability Green Paper

Post by **adam** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:19 pm

On why everything hasn't gone completely downhill in the economy since the vote to leave... from 0m15s...

[youtube]o9NVaDR5SFQ[/youtube]

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:26 pm

It get's even better...

Breitbart employees threaten exit over Yiannopoulos

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... annopoulos

“The fact of the matter is that there’s been so many things that have been objectionable about Milo over the last couple of years, quite frankly. This is something far more sinister,” the senior editor said.

“If the company isn’t willing to act, there are at least half a dozen people who are willing to walk out over it.”

Too toxic even for the house journal of the alt-right?

:lol!:

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:37 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:54 pm

http://www.welfareweekly.com/benefit-sa ... hologists/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefit sanctions are damaging people’s health and must be suspended, say psychologists
Psychologists say sanctions regime is "undermining mental health and wellbeing" and causing destitution, hardship, and widespread anxiety.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Feb, 2017 12:01 am

Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)

People with mental health conditions and autism whom I met recently in Bristol told me of the difficulties they face getting into work. They also told me about the issues relating to PIP, work capability assessments and sanctions. Those in the ESA support group fear that the Green Paper spells out that they will be targeted next after cuts to people on the ESA work-related activity group in April. How does the Minister justify ESA WRAG cuts, cuts to employment support, jobcentre closures and the liberal use of sanctions as helping disabled people into work when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

Penny Mordaunt

We are doing more for that group of people, which is why, despite the hon. Lady’s request, I will not be pulling the personalised support package that will take effect in April.

Not sure if that is a cock reference,either way it is totally bizarre non answer.