Monday 20th February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 2:03 am

Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... _Hootsuite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Councils prepare to cut essential services to fund adult social care
Despite council tax increases, authorities will need to defund services to meet rising costs warns Local Government Association

http://www.local.gov.uk/web/guest/media ... 56122/NEWS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.local.gov.uk/adult-social-care-budget-tool" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:22 am

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... inst-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul Robeson's songs and deeds light the way for the fight against Trump
Jeff Sparrow

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 6:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssociation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NHS at breaking point, according to British Medical Association

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:23 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Divide and rule tactics could leave UK without deal, say EU politicians

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 7:54 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting graph.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 8:15 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39025868" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Night Tube drivers balloted over strikes

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 8:52 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One in four UK families have less than £95 in savings, report finds

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:13 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... _Hootsuite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Councils prepare to cut essential services to fund adult social care
Despite council tax increases, authorities will need to defund services to meet rising costs warns Local Government Association

http://www.local.gov.uk/web/guest/media ... 56122/NEWS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.local.gov.uk/adult-social-care-budget-tool" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Send the appropriately itemised and correct social care invoices to Westminster attention Tory government
You f i n d the funds
P a y a b l e N O W
I'm a oner for awkward scenes when the cause is just
friendly, yet firm

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:14 am

Good-morning, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:19 am

http://www.labourlords.org.uk/article_5 ... amendments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Article 50 Bill - Labour Lords frontbench amendments

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:19 am

Morning all.

Interesting that comments from the HJC etc regarding Nuttall's Hillsborough comments didn't get Norman Smith interested but a couple of fellow kippers resigning did.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:26 am

Indeed

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 9:55 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Interesting that comments from the HJC etc regarding Nuttall's Hillsborough comments didn't get Norman Smith interested but a couple of fellow kippers resigning did.

I reckon Ukip devouring itself from the inside is more interesting from a news perspective tbh.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:09 am

Good morfternoon.

Two Ukip chairmen quit in protest over Paul Nuttall's Hillsborough falsehood (Politics Live, Guardian)

norman smith (@BBCNormanS)

Sources in @ukip say more resignations of party officials and members expected in Merseyside over @paulnuttallukip Hillsborough comments
February 20, 2017

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:16 am

Whoopses all round . . .

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:24 am

How are the kippers going to square the circle of complaining about Liverpool moaners using Hillsborough as a weapon and having a leader from Bootle that's used Hillsborough as a shield?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:38 am

StephenDolan wrote:How are the kippers going to square the circle of complaining about Liverpool moaners using Hillsborough as a weapon and having a leader from Bootle that's used Hillsborough as a shield?

Squares are fake news
UKIP only recognise circles
Therefore, your question is a diversion intending to confuse

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:50 am

I rarely do this (or even read below the line), but it happened to pop up on my screen -

TaffTwo. .
4m ago
0 1

Paul Nuttall is enduring all the orchestrated marxist spite and hatred that Farage has heroically faced for decades. If there is one thing the left truly despises it is a genuinely working class man with aspiration for himself and his fellow underprivileged grafters. Good luck Paul.
(Politics Live, Guardian)

And no - it's not a joke.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 10:53 am

I'm surprised that Kraft have retreated into the undergrowth.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:02 am

PorFavor wrote:I'm surprised that Kraft have retreated into the undergrowth.

Indeed. The irony being that the swift withdrawal has hit the Unilever share price hard. Makes it even more tempting.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:12 am

50 Trade People to Follow on Twitter
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You might lose the will to live if you followed all 50, mind.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:23 am

That was an early start today, AH.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:38 am

StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm surprised that Kraft have retreated into the undergrowth.
Indeed. The irony being that the swift withdrawal has hit the Unilever share price hard. Makes it even more tempting.

ULVR is down 7%. It was up 13% on Friday. I'm still smiling. Kerching!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 11:52 am

The report in the Mirror may or may not be 'fake news' but someone is paying money to ask whether Corbyn being replaced would affect Labour positively or negatively.

The Opinium poll I was sent yesterday asked a question - can't remember the exact wording, 'would you be more /less likely to vote Labour if Jeremy Corbyn was replaced as leader' was the gist of it.

Maybe the result will be published in the Observer, they use Opinium. If not it is anyone's guess who
wants to know.

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/corbyn-ai ... tPosts+%28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 12:16 pm

May visiting Stoke? Blimey. Is this to push Ukip into third or deflect from Nuttall?

If the pm visits a constituency I'm guessing this leads the local news?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 12:19 pm

yahyah wrote:The report in the Mirror may or may not be 'fake news' but someone is paying money to ask whether Corbyn being replaced would affect Labour positively or negatively.

The Opinium poll I was sent yesterday asked a question - can't remember the exact wording, 'would you be more /less likely to vote Labour if Jeremy Corbyn was replaced as leader' was the gist of it.

Maybe the result will be published in the Observer, they use Opinium. If not it is anyone's guess who
wants to know.

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/corbyn-ai ... tPosts+%28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd be interested if anyone knows (knew?) what percentage of polls are binned or more specifically not made public. Be it internal party polling in the run-up to GE, by elections etc or think tank, newspapers.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 12:40 pm

yahyah wrote:The report in the Mirror may or may not be 'fake news' but someone is paying money to ask whether Corbyn being replaced would affect Labour positively or negatively.

The Opinium poll I was sent yesterday asked a question - can't remember the exact wording, 'would you be more /less likely to vote Labour if Jeremy Corbyn was replaced as leader' was the gist of it.

Maybe the result will be published in the Observer, they use Opinium. If not it is anyone's guess who
wants to know.

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/corbyn-ai ... tPosts+%28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They need to pay for that? Crikey. They're like the Natural Law Party when George Harrison was funding them. Rich and pointless.

I see Burgon did the Blair Conspiracy line. I thought they were savvy enough at least to play that down.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 12:42 pm

StephenDolan wrote:How are the kippers going to square the circle of complaining about Liverpool moaners using Hillsborough as a weapon and having a leader from Bootle that's used Hillsborough as a shield?

They've squared worse. Tax cuts from scrapping diversity officers.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:03 pm

Just seen this NHS staff by nationality list - quite quite remarkable

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5HDBK7WAAA7QgV.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:10 pm

yahyah wrote:The report in the Mirror may or may not be 'fake news' but someone is paying money to ask whether Corbyn being replaced would affect Labour positively or negatively.

The Opinium poll I was sent yesterday asked a question - can't remember the exact wording, 'would you be more /less likely to vote Labour if Jeremy Corbyn was replaced as leader' was the gist of it.

Maybe the result will be published in the Observer, they use Opinium. If not it is anyone's guess who
wants to know.

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/corbyn-ai ... tPosts+%28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This quote by the new LOTO twitter a/c “This MirrorOnline story is entirely untrue. No such questions about jeremycorbyn have been commissioned in any such poll,” is a very long-winded way of saying its crap, if indeed that is the case....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:12 pm

pk1 wrote:Just seen this NHS staff by nationality list - quite quite remarkable

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5HDBK7WAAA7QgV.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link.
Our local medical practice is fortunate to have one of the 130 Afghanis.
He's a very good doctor, lovely too, and so popular it is hard to get to see him.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:26 pm

That's the last time I buy an Emma Bridgewater mug.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:39 pm

pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:The report in the Mirror may or may not be 'fake news' but someone is paying money to ask whether Corbyn being replaced would affect Labour positively or negatively.

The Opinium poll I was sent yesterday asked a question - can't remember the exact wording, 'would you be more /less likely to vote Labour if Jeremy Corbyn was replaced as leader' was the gist of it.

Maybe the result will be published in the Observer, they use Opinium. If not it is anyone's guess who
wants to know.

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/corbyn-ai ... tPosts+%28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This quote by the new LOTO twitter a/c “This MirrorOnline story is entirely untrue. No such questions about jeremycorbyn have been commissioned in any such poll,” is a very long-winded way of saying its crap, if indeed that is the case....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 89416.html

Labour sources say that a large-scale opinion poll has been discussed but has not yet been signed off, and that even if it does go ahead it will not include questions about Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

So, it's not true,..yet

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:46 pm

Yvette Cooper keeping up the fight to help child refugees.
BBC just had an interview with her. She's in Dunkirk.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:48 pm

Guardian/ICM poll:

Con: 44% (+2)
Labour: 26% (-1)
Ukip: 13% (+1)
Lib Dems: 8% (-2)
Greens: 4% (no change)

Con lead: 18 pts (+3)

20/02/17

When will this damn coup stop?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:52 pm

The Sparrow says the latest Guardian/ICM is 'truly dire for Labour'.

Time for gardening. Nothing like it for soothing the spirit.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 1:54 pm

yahyah wrote:The Sparrow says the latest Guardian/ICM is 'truly dire for Labour'.

Time for gardening. Nothing like it for soothing the spirit.

Don't see why. It shows little further deterioration and is in line with every other poll

https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/02/but-why.html/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 2:23 pm

Afternoon all. I've been lurking as I've been playing around with analysing the 1901 Census...

NHS trusts overspent by nearly £900m

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39029265

NHS trusts in England have racked up a deficit of nearly £900m in the first nine months of this financial year.
It comes despite the health service being given extra money to help it get on top of its finances after the record £2.45bn overspend in 2015-16.

Regulators forecast a slight improvement in the finances by April, but confirmed NHS trusts were on track to bust their £80bn budget.
Hospital bosses blamed winter pressures for the overspend.

They said they had had to treat more patients than budgeted for, while delays discharging patients because of a lack of community services had cost hospitals in particular.

I do wish they wouldn't use the word "blamed" - you explain variances from a budget - you don't "blame" them on anything.

Additional activity will almost certainly mean additional costs - only a fool wouldn't appreciate that.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 2:32 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all. I've been lurking as I've been playing around with analysing the 1901 Census...

NHS trusts overspent by nearly £900m

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39029265

NHS trusts in England have racked up a deficit of nearly £900m in the first nine months of this financial year.
It comes despite the health service being given extra money to help it get on top of its finances after the record £2.45bn overspend in 2015-16.

Regulators forecast a slight improvement in the finances by April, but confirmed NHS trusts were on track to bust their £80bn budget.
Hospital bosses blamed winter pressures for the overspend.

They said they had had to treat more patients than budgeted for, while delays discharging patients because of a lack of community services had cost hospitals in particular.
I do wish they wouldn't use the word "blamed" - you explain variances from a budget - you don't "blame" them on anything.

Additional activity will almost certainly mean additional costs - only a fool wouldn't appreciate that.

I am sure that is bad, but 900m on a 80bn budget doesn't seem to me to be a reason to panic.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 2:33 pm

Burgon apparently got thrown by a question on how he'd vote in a Second Referendum. There isn't one, but it's surely not too hard to say you'd vote just like you did in the last one.

What a heavyweight, eh?

Richard Burgon MPVerified account
‏@RichardBurgon
Tony Blair seems to feel economic & political institution that is the EU is perfect & Referendum shouldn't count. Labour right to disagree.

If Long-Bailey is to be the leader, what's Burgon lined up for? Foreign Secretary? He can set up barter deals with Venezuela.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 2:34 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all. I've been lurking as I've been playing around with analysing the 1901 Census...

NHS trusts overspent by nearly £900m

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39029265

NHS trusts in England have racked up a deficit of nearly £900m in the first nine months of this financial year.
It comes despite the health service being given extra money to help it get on top of its finances after the record £2.45bn overspend in 2015-16.

Regulators forecast a slight improvement in the finances by April, but confirmed NHS trusts were on track to bust their £80bn budget.
Hospital bosses blamed winter pressures for the overspend.

They said they had had to treat more patients than budgeted for, while delays discharging patients because of a lack of community services had cost hospitals in particular.
I do wish they wouldn't use the word "blamed" - you explain variances from a budget - you don't "blame" them on anything.

Additional activity will almost certainly mean additional costs - only a fool wouldn't appreciate that.
I am sure that is bad, but 900m on a 80bn budget doesn't seem to me to be a reason to panic.

Not as a one off, but it's consistently going over budget, isn't it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 2:39 pm

Surely there's a load of free money coming Britain's way from leaving the EU. What's that, £25m extra a week? Easy enough, surely.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 3:03 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Guardian/ICM poll:

Con: 44% (+2)
Labour: 26% (-1)
Ukip: 13% (+1)
Lib Dems: 8% (-2)
Greens: 4% (no change)

Con lead: 18 pts (+3)

20/02/17

When will this damn coup stop?

Its effects are still being felt, just as those behind it intended. If they couldn't have "their" party "back", they fully intended to poison the earth.

And they have.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 3:25 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Guardian/ICM poll:

Con: 44% (+2)
Labour: 26% (-1)
Ukip: 13% (+1)
Lib Dems: 8% (-2)
Greens: 4% (no change)

Con lead: 18 pts (+3)

20/02/17

When will this damn coup stop?
Its effects are still being felt, just as those behind it intended. If they couldn't have "their" party "back", they fully intended to poison the earth.

And they have.

Either you deal with "the poison", or you walk.

Who could have guessed that Corbyn, with his history, couldn't command loyalty?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 3:27 pm

I'm not aware any work has been done on what did for Miliband- lack of trust on the economy. Do we even know what it would cost to buy out PFIs, for instance?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 3:52 pm

PorFavor wrote:I rarely do this (or even read below the line), but it happened to pop up on my screen -

TaffTwo. .
4m ago
0 1

Paul Nuttall is enduring all the orchestrated marxist spite and hatred that Farage has heroically faced for decades. If there is one thing the left truly despises it is a genuinely working class man with aspiration for himself and his fellow underprivileged grafters. Good luck Paul.
(Politics Live, Guardian)
And no - it's not a joke.

I refused to take down the Vote Labour poster in our front window

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 3:55 pm

StephenDolan wrote:May visiting Stoke? Blimey. Is this to push Ukip into third or deflect from Nuttall?

If the pm visits a constituency I'm guessing this leads the local news?

whoa
I'll put another Vote Labour poster in the window

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 3:59 pm

Wowser.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-law ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:00 pm

For some reason, I've remembered that sinister puppet master figure, Neil Grant. Remember him? He was involved with two TV programmes about Corbyn and Momentum. The Momentum one was a couple of short Channel 4 news items stretched out for a whole show. No idea about the other.

What's that Grant bloke working on now? We need to know.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Feb, 2017 4:01 pm

StephenDolan wrote:I'd be interested if anyone knows (knew?) what percentage of polls are binned or more specifically not made public. Be it internal party polling in the run-up to GE, by elections etc or think tank, newspapers.

(cJA edit)

I'm embarrassed to admit I'd never thought of that - an excellent question.