Thursday 23rd February 2017

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HindleA
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Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

Morning


Prisons shakeup to give governors more control over rehabilitation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/just ... ourts-bill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pris ... ns-for-you" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SpinningHugo
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Await with interest the cries that the polls are wrong because Labour wins safe seats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... yelections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The polls aren't wrong.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Really excellent previews of the two constituencies

http://election-data.co.uk/andrews-prev ... on-special" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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adam
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by adam »

SpinningHugo wrote:Await with interest the cries that the polls are wrong because Labour wins safe seats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... yelections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The polls aren't wrong.
Are the polls wrong because the Liberal Democrats are generally performing very well in local council by elections? Wrong for the li dems but not for labour?

I'm not arguing that the... actually, I am at core arguing that polls have been so hopeless in the last few years that we should be very wary of taking them too seriously but ... I'm not arguing that the polls can't illustrate some kind of trend. In elections that have mattered for Labour in the last few years- the national round of local elections and the by elections they've actually been a part of (rather than being one of the others) they've done better than might be expected from national polls.

Yes, 'being one of the others' in mid term by elections is a problem in itself. Yes, I don't believe Labour will win a general election under Corbyn. Yes, also, my form on predictions is appalling. Still...

Edited the longer paragraph to make sense around the elipsis.
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SpinningHugo
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Labour and the working class. Good overview

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a few Labour MPs ludicrously claiming to be working class last night after a Prof on Newsnight said none of them now were.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

adam wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Await with interest the cries that the polls are wrong because Labour wins safe seats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... yelections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The polls aren't wrong.
Are the polls wrong because the Liberal Democrats are generally performing very well in local council by elections? Wrong for the li dems but not for labour?

I'm not arguing that the... actually, I am at core arguing that polls have been so hopeless in the last few years that we should be very wary of taking them too seriously but ... that the polls illustrate some kind of trend. In elections that have mattered for Labour in the last few years- the national round of local elections and the by elections they've actually been a part of (rather than being one of the others) they've done better than might be expected from national polls.

Yes, 'being one of the others' in mid term by elections is a problem in itself. Yes, I don't believe Labour will win a general election under Corbyn. Yes, also, my form on predictions is appalling. Still...
No, in response to the question, because the polls ask how you would vote in a GE. That has low correlation with how local by-elections go.

Pols were out a bit in 2015. They overestimated Labour. There have been some minor changes in methodology, but not enough to correct for that yet.

If it were a General Election tomorrow, Labour would lose Copeland, and even possibly Stoke (both to the Tories).
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/sarah-cha ... -violence/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sarah Champion: After years of cuts, MPs have the chance this week to tackle the crisis in dealing with domestic violence
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/450m- ... 1245b46bb2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



£450m lost over failed green power programme
Minister who backed plan now works in sector
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... erity.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The academic consensus on austerity solidifies, but policymakers go their own sweet way

Mainlymacro
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Melissa and millions like her are just one unpaid bill away from the abyss
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all. Windy day umpire!
Mark EastonVerified account‏@BBCMarkEaston 5m5 minutes ago
More
140,650 new homes built in England last year, DOWN from 142,600 in 2015 and well short of 250k govt says required. @CommunitiesUK
Nowhere even close to the number achieved before the global recession.
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adam
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by adam »

SpinningHugo wrote:If it were a General Election tomorrow, Labour would lose Copeland, and even possibly Stoke (both to the Tories).
If there were a general election tomorrow it would have happened on the back of an EU dominated campaign that looked at different options for the country's future and it might be the case that this would be the election that finally destroyed labour as it currently is. The fact that May hasn't gone back to the country early, as she could easily have justified and all but certainly engineered despite the fixed term act, suggests that the government don't think this would necessarily be the case. The risk she is taking is that by the time the next election comes around, with it becoming increasingly explicit that 'eating our cake and having it' was actually not a realistic policy aim, she will have to go to the country with a much more explicit agenda of dismantling what's left of the post-war welfare state. That should be a very very hard sell - the conservatives will have been in power for a decade and things will not have got any better for most people throughout that time as it is and they will be saying 'you're gong to lose this and it's going to cost you this and this - and that's without whatever 'events' might come along in the next few years that we haven't seen yet.

I'm very very pessimistic about voters and opinions but eventually the point will come when the choices being made can't be fudged by the magical realism of the 'leave' campaign.

The danger is that when the government come along with their offer in 2020 - 'Shit in your mouth again' - on recent history we will see voters saying 'well, they want to shit in my mouth again but I don't like the look of that bloke on the other side so I think I'm going to have to put up with the shit'.
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SpinningHugo
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

adam wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:If it were a General Election tomorrow, Labour would lose Copeland, and even possibly Stoke (both to the Tories).
If there were a general election tomorrow it would have happened on the back of an EU dominated campaign that looked at different options for the country's future and it might be the case that this would be the election that finally destroyed labour as it currently is. The fact that May hasn't gone back to the country early, as she could easily have justified and all but certainly engineered despite the fixed term act, suggests that the government don't think this would necessarily be the case. The risk she is taking is that by the time the next election comes around, with it becoming increasingly explicit that 'eating our cake and having it' was actually not a realistic policy aim, she will have to go to the country with a much more explicit agenda of dismantling what's left of the post-war welfare state. That should be a very very hard sell - the conservatives will have been in power for a decade and things will not have got any better for most people throughout that time as it is and they will be saying 'you're gong to lose this and it's going to cost you this and this - and that's without whatever 'events' might come along in the next few years that we haven't seen yet.

I'm very very pessimistic about voters and opinions but eventually the point will come when the choices being made can't be fudged by the magical realism of the 'leave' campaign.

The danger is that when the government come along with their offer in 2020 - 'Shit in your mouth again' - on recent history we will see voters saying 'well, they want to shit in my mouth again but I don't like the look of that bloke on the other side so I think I'm going to have to put up with the shit'.
No argument from me. A competent opposition would be having a field day.

The lack of a competent opposition has given May the space to pursue Ulkips and turn right. That was what she was doing in Stoke. She'd prefer Labour to win, furthering the collapse of Ukips, and the increase in her lead. So she makes sure the Tory vote holds up: handing the seat to Labour. The longer Corbyn is leader the better for the Tories. It is causing Labour longterm structural damage that will never be overcome.

I don't know which is worse for Labour. Losing these byelections or winning them.

Still, we have another relaunch speech to look forward to tomorrow. Should be good for a few giggles.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by NonOxCol »

Morning. The good times just keep on rollin'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

18 points behind a PM being praised by a fascist while holding hands with a proto-fascist.

I was at school - were the 1980s really worse than this for Labour?
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adam
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by adam »

SpinningHugo wrote:No argument from me. A competent opposition would be having a field day.

The lack of a competent opposition has given May the space to pursue Ulkips and turn right. That was what she was doing in Stoke. She'd prefer Labour to win, furthering the collapse of Ukips, and the increase in her lead. So she makes sure the Tory vote holds up: handing the seat to Labour. The longer Corbyn is leader the better for the Tories. It is causing Labour longterm structural damage that will never be overcome.

I don't know which is worse for Labour. Losing these byelections or winning them.

Still, we have another relaunch speech to look forward to tomorrow. Should be good for a few giggles.
I would honestly like to give you credit as coming from a 'I want to see labour doing better' position but in a world where the government are driving us of a cliff it is very rare for you to say anything other than a relentless criticism of the labour party. It's none of my business, obviously, and this has been said here before, but you could spend some more time turning your obviously (and just to be clear, said seriously, straight up and not sarcastically at all) knowledgeable and analytical mind to better purposes than 'this is what's wrong with labour' ALL of the time.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Await with interest Labour wins
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

NonOxCol wrote:Morning. The good times just keep on rollin'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

18 points behind a PM being praised by a fascist while holding hands with a proto-fascist.

I was at school - were the 1980s really worse than this for Labour?
They were pretty bad - after the 1983 GE the party's final demise was openly speculated upon.
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adam
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by adam »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning. The good times just keep on rollin'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

18 points behind a PM being praised by a fascist while holding hands with a proto-fascist.

I was at school - were the 1980s really worse than this for Labour?
They were pretty bad - after the 1983 GE the party's final demise was openly speculated upon.
And after 87 and 92 it was close to established wisdom that labour would not win on their own again.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by gilsey »

Keep safe everyone.
Bizarrely, it's very calm here, we're in the eye of the storm.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by nickyinnorfolk »

Just when you thought ukip and Eddie Hitler Nuttall couldn't sink any further, it emerges that they've distributed a photoshopped picture of Gareth Snell with Corbyn - replacing Corbyn with a woman in a burka (and a Labour rosette).

Blogger Another Angry Voice has posted this on FB:
UKIP have clearly learned from the fake news epidemic that swept Donald Trump into the White House, and they're trying to imitate it in their own pathetically amateurish way.

The first example of UKIP fake news aimed at influencing the Stoke Central by-election was a pathetically shoddy photoshopped image claiming that Stoke residents were hanging out St George's crosses in order to protest against "unpatriotic" Jeremy Corbyn.

As the Skwawkbox blog pointed out, not only was the image crudely and obviously photoshopped, the Ukipper that did it actually got the flag the wrong way up, which is considered a grave insult in the world of vexillology.

If anyone is "unpatriotic" it's clearly the Ukipper who thought it was fine to photoshop an upside down English flag onto some random house in Stoke.

Soon after the Fake flag protest picture was exposed another one soon appeared, this time showing the Labour by-election candidate Gareth Snell with a burka clad woman. It didn't take much investigation to find the original photo, which was a publicity shot of Gareth Snell with the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.

The first image demonstrated the grotesquely ignorant brand of nationalism promoted by extreme right groups like UKIP and Britain First by getting the flag upside down.

The second demonstrates something a lot more distasteful. It clearly shows the Ukipper assumption that the people of Stoke are a bunch of gullible bigots. Whoever decided to turn Jeremy Corbyn into a burka clad woman made two obvious assumptions about the people of Stoke: Firstly that they're gullible enough to fall for another crudely photoshopped image, and secondly that they must be such a bunch of bigots that they'd find a picture of a woman in a burka so terrifying that they'd rush off and vote for UKIP.

I hope the people of Stoke Central are smart enough to see through this appalling fake news bullshit from UKIP, and hand the NHS-hating local address-faking hard-right charlatan Paul Nuttall the electoral defeat he so richly deserves.

If you know anyone who lives in Stoke, or anyone with connections to the city, please consider sharing this article with them to help to publicise the disgusting dirty tricks that UKIP are employing to in order to dupe Stokies into voting for their extreme-right Thatcherism on steroids party.
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk ... -ukip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

SpinningHugo wrote:Await with interest the cries that the polls are wrong because Labour wins safe seats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... yelections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The polls aren't wrong.
They aren't "wrong", no.

But two Labour wins today - combined with the now consistent Tory losses in local by-elections - would perhaps suggest they aren't telling the whole story?
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gilsey
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by gilsey »

adam wrote:The risk she is taking is that by the time the next election comes around, with it becoming increasingly explicit that 'eating our cake and having it' was actually not a realistic policy aim, she will have to go to the country with a much more explicit agenda of dismantling what's left of the post-war welfare state. That should be a very very hard sell - the conservatives will have been in power for a decade and things will not have got any better for most people throughout that time as it is and they will be saying 'you're gong to lose this and it's going to cost you this and this - and that's without whatever 'events' might come along in the next few years that we haven't seen yet.

I'm very very pessimistic about voters and opinions but eventually the point will come when the choices being made can't be fudged by the magical realism of the 'leave' campaign.

The danger is that when the government come along with their offer in 2020 - 'Shit in your mouth again' - on recent history we will see voters saying 'well, they want to shit in my mouth again but I don't like the look of that bloke on the other side so I think I'm going to have to put up with the shit'.
I think that's a good analysis, unless Brexit goes completely off the rails before then, which is quite possible. The conservative agenda will be very clear to all in 2020. Brexit will be used as a justification for shrinking the state further, as the financial crisis was. The problem I foresee is that they and the media will make it seem inevitable, and that Labour won't be able to change the general direction of travel anyway, so we could be looking at a very small range of choice. I'd like to hear much more of this from Labour, from Wren-Lewis linked earlier.
With yet another study showing how damaging austerity can be, you would think that at some point some politicians would eventually get it. This tepid economic recovery has been a huge vindication of Keynesian economics, which also happens to be mainstream economics.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by gilsey »

AnatolyKasparov wrote: They aren't "wrong", no.

But two Labour wins today - combined with the now consistent Tory losses in local by-elections - would perhaps suggest they aren't telling the whole story?
The most likely outcome is that the turnout will be so low that sensible people will refrain from drawing conclusions about national voting intentions. There aren't many sensible commentators about, as we know.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Bear in mind that Stoke Central had the lowest turnout anywhere at the last GE - the only seat where it was below 50%.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Await with interest the cries that the polls are wrong because Labour wins safe seats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... yelections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The polls aren't wrong.
They aren't "wrong", no.

But two Labour wins today - combined with the now consistent Tory losses in local by-elections - would perhaps suggest they aren't telling the whole story?

Insofar as we mean Labour's prospects for the next GE?

They're the whole story.

The Tory local election losses aren't, of course, actually to Labour.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: They aren't "wrong", no.

But two Labour wins today - combined with the now consistent Tory losses in local by-elections - would perhaps suggest they aren't telling the whole story?

Insofar as we mean Labour's prospects for the next GE?

They're the whole story.

The Tory local election losses aren't, of course, actually to Labour.
Not at the moment (except for the one on Tuesday)

My point is that Tory support is softer than polls currently indicate. Of course without a better Labour challenge, that point could indeed remain moot at a GE.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning. The good times just keep on rollin'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

18 points behind a PM being praised by a fascist while holding hands with a proto-fascist.

I was at school - were the 1980s really worse than this for Labour?
They were pretty bad - after the 1983 GE the party's final demise was openly speculated upon.

There are two big differences from 83.

First is Scotland. That is lost. That is 50 Labour seats permanently gone. That means that the heartland from which Labour can recover is much smaller than before.

But

Second is the lack of any credible left of centre party in the south. It looked touch and go for a while in the early 80s whether Labour would be replaced by the SDP. Now the Lib Dems are a very small party (but as AK keeps reminding us, recovering remarkably well in local government elections). I think we could see a Green upsurge, they have my support.

The PLP has hardly any Bennites in it in 2017, but in the 1980s they had never gained the leadership.

In the 80s Labour was partly at least crushed by the Falkands war. Now the Tories are doing it without any such advantage.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: They aren't "wrong", no.

But two Labour wins today - combined with the now consistent Tory losses in local by-elections - would perhaps suggest they aren't telling the whole story?

Insofar as we mean Labour's prospects for the next GE?

They're the whole story.

The Tory local election losses aren't, of course, actually to Labour.
Not at the moment (except for the one on Tuesday)

My point is that Tory support is softer than polls currently indicate. Of course without a better Labour challenge, that point could indeed remain moot at a GE.
Inexplicable as it seems, May is popular. her popularity in polling has gone on longer than the usual honeymoon period. this is midterm: the point where government popularity in all previous cycles has been at its lowest.

I can't see Labour doing as well as it did under Milinband even if it changed leader tomorrow. Corbyn has permanently lowered Labour's ceiling. Which means we now need some kind of reorganisation in UK politics between the non-Tory parties once Corbyn has been removed.. There is no other way forward.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://www.scottishhousingnews.com/1410 ... droom-tax/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Scottish ministers have yet to reach an agreement with the UK government over a potential reduction in the benefits of claimants in Scotland when the Scottish Government abolishes the ‘bedroom tax’.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by Lost Soul »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-red-line" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know what to say about this. Lots of swearing obviously - but mainly just embarrassed and worried that the rest
of Europe thinks we're all like that.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Lost Soul wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-red-line

I don't know what to say about this. Lots of swearing obviously - but mainly just embarrassed and worried that the rest
of Europe thinks we're all like that.
Far more embarrassing than wearing silly shorts when jogging.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... n-thailand" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



BBC journalist faces defamation charge in Thailand
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... e-building" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Housing stats referred to by Roger.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

May is reasonably popular, yes. She doesn't have anything like Blair's stratospheric ratings in the 1997-99 period though.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.

I often wonder if voters liked what Tony Blair said (and, at least of late, people don't seem to be very moved by, or even take in, substance), or were mesmerised by the way that he said it.



Edited - typo

Edited again - spotted another typo. And such a short post, too!
Last edited by PorFavor on Thu 23 Feb, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

really interesting figures. They tell us how much attention most people pay to politics between general elections (ie almost none)

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/02/22/la ... blics-vie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at Stamer, Jarvis and Long-Bailey. Even McDonnell.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

I often wonder if voters liked what Tony Blair said (and, at least of late, people don't seem to be very moved, or even take in, substance), or were mesmerised by the way that he said it
Oh, I have little doubt that during his peak years both were very much true.

Its easy to forget now that he is so totally in his Norma Desmond phase, but for some time his ability to read - and respond to - the public mood was astonishing. He didn't win the leadership in 1994 just because he was the "most electable" candidate (though he was) but because he was an incredibly gifted politician and most people in Labour - even many who did not share his politics (which were, it should nonetheless be pointed out, some way to the left of where he stands *now*) fully realised this.

When I criticise him, its partly because of sadness for what could have been. He had it in him to be another Attlee......
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by citizenJA »

SpinningHugo wrote:Labour and the working class. Good overview

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a few Labour MPs ludicrously claiming to be working class last night after a Prof on Newsnight said none of them now were.
People with resources exclusively under their control obtained and kept without having further bargaining obligations or tiresome limitations of supply, transportation ownership permitting at-will travel, owning, leasing or otherwise having sole right residing in their home(s), possessing autonomous, on-call health care and robust food, water and clean air supply-chain capacity, liveried legal council providing verifiable documentation legitimatising any number of favourable eventualities and security staff procurement protecting, helping enforce all dues and rights without providing civilisation they're using but don't help care and maintain aren't working class people.

There's very few non-working class people. Most of us are working class. The few non-working class people spend a lot of time and money obscuring all but a few people on earth are working class. We're all relying on work we all do. Non-working class people don't want everyone to have nice things. Shocking and totally anti-social.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone.
Temulkar
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

I often wonder if voters liked what Tony Blair said (and, at least of late, people don't seem to be very moved, or even take in, substance), or were mesmerised by the way that he said it
Oh, I have little doubt that during his peak years both were very much true.

Its easy to forget now that he is so totally in his Norma Desmond phase, but for some time his ability to read - and respond to - the public mood was astonishing. He didn't win the leadership in 1994 just because he was the "most electable" candidate (though he was) but because he was an incredibly gifted politician and most people in Labour - even many who did not share his politics (which were, it should nonetheless be pointed out, some way to the left of where he stands *now*) fully realised this.

When I criticise him, its partly because of sadness for what could have been. He had it in him to be another Attlee......
I voted for Becket.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Temulkar wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

I often wonder if voters liked what Tony Blair said (and, at least of late, people don't seem to be very moved, or even take in, substance), or were mesmerised by the way that he said it
Oh, I have little doubt that during his peak years both were very much true.

Its easy to forget now that he is so totally in his Norma Desmond phase, but for some time his ability to read - and respond to - the public mood was astonishing. He didn't win the leadership in 1994 just because he was the "most electable" candidate (though he was) but because he was an incredibly gifted politician and most people in Labour - even many who did not share his politics (which were, it should nonetheless be pointed out, some way to the left of where he stands *now*) fully realised this.

When I criticise him, its partly because of sadness for what could have been. He had it in him to be another Attlee......
I voted for Becket.

Oddly enough, so did I. I was impressed by her during the interregnum. How things change.






Edited - typo
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

The UK transport minister John Hayes has been ridiculed after wrongly asserting in the Commons on Thursday that two major Scottish bridges, the Forth and Tay road bridges, had to be closed down after the Scottish government abolished tolls nearly 10 years ago. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Pillock. And yet they get away with it all the time.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by citizenJA »

citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Labour and the working class. Good overview

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a few Labour MPs ludicrously claiming to be working class last night after a Prof on Newsnight said none of them now were.
People with resources exclusively under their control obtained and kept without having further bargaining obligations or tiresome limitations of supply, transportation ownership permitting at-will travel, owning, leasing or otherwise having sole right residing in their home(s), possessing autonomous, on-call health care and robust food, water and clean air supply-chain capacity, liveried legal council providing verifiable documentation legitimatising any number of favourable eventualities and security staff procurement protecting, helping enforce all dues and rights without providing civilisation they're using but don't help care and maintain aren't working class people.

There's very few non-working class people. Most of us are working class. The few non-working class people spend a lot of time and money obscuring all but a few people on earth are working class. We're all relying on work we all do. Non-working class people don't want everyone to have nice things. Shocking and totally anti-social.
Anyone who can't walk away from a job never work a job again and live long without material detriment is working class. Pensioners, chronically ill people, people with disabilities, carers, parents, home-makers, students, children, are most of them working class - they're unable to live separately of an interdependent network of support from working class people.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/23/alien-l ... el-farage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Alien life beyond the solar system already eyeing up UK benefits system, warns Nigel Farage
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by citizenJA »

I can tell which political party member is knocking on my door before I open it without having seen them walk up.
I don't know how I know.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

PorFavor wrote:
The UK transport minister John Hayes has been ridiculed after wrongly asserting in the Commons on Thursday that two major Scottish bridges, the Forth and Tay road bridges, had to be closed down after the Scottish government abolished tolls nearly 10 years ago. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Pillock. And yet they get away with it all the time.
John Hayes thinks he's an architecture critic. Too important for stuff like whether bridges were open or closed.

There's a fair point that the SNP choose cutting tolls over spending on the NHS, schools etc. Populism. Thank you SNP for the free bridge, sod you Westminster for my wait in A&E.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

SpinningHugo wrote:really interesting figures. They tell us how much attention most people pay to politics between general elections (ie almost none)

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/02/22/la ... blics-vie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at Stamer, Jarvis and Long-Bailey. Even McDonnell.
Why is Ed so unlikeable?
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Some bad mood music re Vauxhall/Peugeot.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... sa-gm-opel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We don't know what's happening yet, but "Hard Brexit Job Losses" might be a decent slogan.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Of course, this could be a corporate shakedown.

Imagine if we had an opposition leader who thought free money for people to make cars they'd make anyway was bad.
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Re: Thursday 23rd February 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2017/02/de ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Why decommissioning nuclear workers’ pensions could be hazardous to us all
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