Friday 24 February 2017

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 12:22 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Seriously now, what even is this nonsense?

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I'm not sure embarrassment covers it any more.
Somebody sleep deprived and probably quite upset says something silly shocker.

If you want embarrassment, dig up some of the "NUTTALL TO UTTERLY EVISCERATE LABOUR" pieces from "respected" political journalists late last year.

Were there?

Any examples of this?

Link?

Look up the Twitter account of @simonk_133 - he has literally dozens of them.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 12:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Somebody sleep deprived and probably quite upset says something silly shocker.

If you want embarrassment, dig up some of the "NUTTALL TO UTTERLY EVISCERATE LABOUR" pieces from "respected" political journalists late last year.

Were there?

Any examples of this?

Link?
Look up the Twitter account of @simonk_133 - he has literally dozens of them.

After scrolling through the football... Leicester fan

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 12:47 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Were there?

Any examples of this?

Link?
Look up the Twitter account of @simonk_133 - he has literally dozens of them.
After scrolling through the football... Leicester fan

He has experienced in a year roughly what we Labour supporters have in 20.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 1:16 pm

Sacking McDonnell and or Milne might be a good idea. How can either of those be said to have performed well?

Both have their fingerprints on Hard Brexit. Disastrous strategy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 1:16 pm

Sacking McDonnell and or Milne might be a good idea. How can either of those be said to have performed well?

Both have their fingerprints on Hard Brexit. Disastrous strategy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 1:31 pm

Has Shami Chakrabarti become less visible?

I thought when I saw her defending the Brexit vote on Channel 4 News that she looked shot.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 1:38 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Sacking McDonnell and or Milne might be a good idea. How can either of those be said to have performed well?

Both have their fingerprints on Hard Brexit. Disastrous strategy.

JMcD has some redeeming features, Milne none that I can see. Probably THE appointment that, in retrospect, doomed any chance of success for Corbyn.

You are repeating yourself btw

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 1:46 pm

I'm on the train. Dawned private rail.

McDonnell was good till the referendum, expert based fiscal framework policy. But hasn't kicked on with the investment stuff really. Just scared people with £500bn. Health would be better. He has talents.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:04 pm

I've been disappointed generally with the opposition, too much broad brush.

Angie Rayner in the TES on teacher retention didn't mention anything she'd do now to make it better. Similarly with the rail disputes, I understand that there's engineering stuff that people agree needs to be done to make the driver only operation less contentious. This to me is something they should be all over.

You can't technocrat your way into government but it would be a message to people in teaching and rail workers and users. A start.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:12 pm

Just through my letter box TODAY - "This Thursday - why more and more people are backing Rebecca Hanson"

Had to wryly laugh.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:16 pm

Denial, not a river in Egypt.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 96911.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:16 pm

Well, from a low base, sort of.

She's actually very good on schools. Regular on the Local Schools Network.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:21 pm

I'm referring as much to the timing tbh

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:22 pm

The denigrating of Brown is appalling.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:23 pm

Ian Lavery ''Corbyn is one of the most popular politicians in the country at the moment.''

All you can do is laugh.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:28 pm

We've heard justified criticism of PFIs. Two got bought out a couple of years ago. Everybody was pleased. Northumberland was one. Just happened because council had some money at the time to lend for it.

Are there no others? What work has been done?

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:33 pm

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May as well blame Brown, everyone else has been blamed, hey where's chopsy McCluskey today, gone a bit quiet hasn't he?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:34 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm referring as much to the timing tbh

Ah I get it now!

Capital letters were the clue.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:34 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:

May as well blame Brown, everyone else has been blamed, hey where's chopsy McCluskey today, gone a bit quiet hasn't he?

That quote is following the Norwich North byelection in........2009.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:36 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:

May as well blame Brown, everyone else has been blamed, hey where's chopsy McCluskey today, gone a bit quiet hasn't he?

Always been more conditional with Corbyn than it looks, I think. Better offer comes along, and he'll jump.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:37 pm

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/23785" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Inquiry into PIP and Motor Neurone Disease

http://www.mndassociation.org/get-invol ... eople-mnd/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:38 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:

May as well blame Brown, everyone else has been blamed, hey where's chopsy McCluskey today, gone a bit quiet hasn't he?
That quote is following the Norwich North byelection in........2009.

Yep, well aware that it is a previous quote, my point being words come back and bite you on the arse.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 2:42 pm

Ah, fair enough.

McCluskey quiet thus far today, but Dave Prentis has intervened and is clearly restless.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 3:04 pm

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/de ... to-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dangerous’ new changes planned to force sick people into work – or into poverty

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 3:19 pm

The GMB leadership have hated Corbyn for ages.

Odd media response by Corbyn. I liked the single market stuff but was it the time and the place?

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 3:22 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:David Winnick MP calling on Corbyn to quit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... b6f7c8ea2f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the PLP must keep their discipline. Don't turn on him. Corbyn has to own this. Don't let them blame Blairites under the bed. Keep quiet.

Goodness, after blair last week, Mandleson and the two blairite resignations that cause the elections in the first place, the blairites are not going to escape the opprobrium they deserve.

Labour lost a seat last night, and here I find a mix of glee and excitement. Corbyn may very well have been brought down by it, although I doubt that, but by destroying him, the party has destroyed itself. There is no coming back from the last two years of civil war, there is no candidate who can unite the warring wings of the party, the mass membership will leave, the war will go on, until the whole edfice is broken.

It deserves to be put out of its misery now, and when we get a decade at least of dystopia, dont start whining about it on here. You were all warned the way it would go.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:23 pm

@Temulkar

I'm neither gleeful nor excited. And I don't detect much glee or excitement in most of the other contributors posts here. I'm depressed, exasperated and close to despairing.

Edited - typo

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:25 pm

Internet down in Stoke since yesterday around seven o'clock in the evening
It's just come back on, I've looked at nothing else, no newspapers, no television.
Stoke Central Labour won.
I've made two vats of lentil-barley sweet-potato vegetable stew, tuck in.

Good-afternoon, everyone.

P.S. Mr citizen is recovering from the effort and the celebration

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:@Temulkar

I'm neither gleeful nor excited. And I don't detect much glee or excitement in most of the other contibutors posts here. I'm depressed, exasperated and close to despairing.

I've got your stew hot. Stoke Central Labour won. I love you.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:28 pm

I'll try to catch up on the thread and the news. Copeland was a Tory gain, I understand.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:30 pm

Personally,I am in still in a state of shock of Tem's knowledge of Mary Whitehouse's knickers.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:33 pm

Bastards, not anyone here, the news headlines.
It's all about the Copeland loss, not the Stoke Central Labour win.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:34 pm

HindleA wrote:Personally,I am in still in a state of shock of Tem's knowledge of Mary Whitehouse's knickers.

He must be from Bladderley Cunderwear. The locals there know about these matters, I'm told.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:35 pm

yahyah wrote:Ian Lavery ''Corbyn is one of the most popular politicians in the country at the moment.''

All you can do is laugh.

Jesus, I know he isn't the brightest tool in the box but that is amazing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:37 pm

Labour ousted by Tories in Copeland byelection but sees off Ukip in Stoke
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... enge-stoke" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I beg your god damn pardon.
Tories/UKIP got beaten by Labour in Stoke Central, you just get that straight.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:38 pm

PorFavor wrote:@Temulkar

I'm neither gleeful nor excited. And I don't detect much glee or excitement in most of the other contibutors posts here. I'm depressed, exasperated and close to despairing.

Really? comments like Hugo's above - and he is not alone - demonstrate nothing but excitement.

Both sides are scabs to the others now. I use that word deliberately and universally not to cause offence, because that is how both sides now see each other. Blair didnt win three elections, a unified party won three elections. Blair added the sprinkle of a landslide in 97, that is all.

This civil war is the death of Labour, not Corbyn. Corbyn was the party's last chance... Best you hope it's the greens who rise not UKIP, but please don't join, please don't think of helping out, we dont need the toxicity of blairism tainting our brand. We dont need the disunity or disloyalty, we don't need the scabs.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:41 pm

PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:Personally,I am in still in a state of shock of Tem's knowledge of Mary Whitehouse's knickers.

He must be from Bladderley Cunderwear. The locals there know about these matters, I'm told.

I was responding to that very post of Tem's last night when I discovered the Internet gone. He was lamenting the silence on FlyTheNest. I tried posting this last night below.

I made two vast pots of barley lentil sweet-potato vegetable stew from scratch and cleaned the kitchen while listening for the Labour party knock at the door and giving Mr citizen my love when he rang after working all day obtaining currency necessary for things like lentils, barley, vegetables and housing. He's with a Labour crew assisting people to their polling stations.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 4:47 pm

Temulkar wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@Temulkar

I'm neither gleeful nor excited. And I don't detect much glee or excitement in most of the other contibutors posts here. I'm depressed, exasperated and close to despairing.
Really? comments like Hugo's above - and he is not alone - demonstrate nothing but excitement.

Both sides are scabs to the others now. I use that word deliberately and universally not to cause offence, because that is how both sides now see each other. Blair didnt win three elections, a unified party won three elections. Blair added the sprinkle of a landslide in 97, that is all.

This civil war is the death of Labour, not Corbyn. Corbyn was the party's last chance... Best you hope it's the greens who rise not UKIP, but please don't join, please don't think of helping out, we dont need the toxicity of blairism tainting our brand. We dont need the disunity or disloyalty, we don't need the scabs.

I don't understand you. We had Labour unified well enough last night in Stoke Central. It was one of the happiest days I've had in twelve months of them. You're not a Labour party member but a Green. Have at it. I wish you and your party every success. Why do you harass Labour people here? You're not even trying to convert Labour supporters, members, voters to Green.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 5:05 pm

citizenJA wrote:Bastards, not anyone here, the news headlines.
It's all about the Copeland loss, not the Stoke Central Labour win.

Utterly predictable. And in this case at least, somewhat understandable.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 5:09 pm

yahyah wrote:Well done the people of Stoke.

Well done all the hard working Labour workers, from both wings of the party, who went there and helped send Nuttall on his way.

How long before we hear if he'll be in trouble about his nomination address ?

I wept with joy.
Thank you, Labour peoples.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 5:14 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Copeland's former MP being helpful

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I don't think there'll be a challenge this year. What would be the possible point?

If I were him I would have had the sense to keep quiet on today of all days.

I can confirm that local Labour sentiment is not feeling especially affectionate towards Reed right now.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 5:21 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@Temulkar

I'm neither gleeful nor excited. And I don't detect much glee or excitement in most of the other contibutors posts here. I'm depressed, exasperated and close to despairing.
Really? comments like Hugo's above - and he is not alone - demonstrate nothing but excitement.

Both sides are scabs to the others now. I use that word deliberately and universally not to cause offence, because that is how both sides now see each other. Blair didnt win three elections, a unified party won three elections. Blair added the sprinkle of a landslide in 97, that is all.

This civil war is the death of Labour, not Corbyn. Corbyn was the party's last chance... Best you hope it's the greens who rise not UKIP, but please don't join, please don't think of helping out, we dont need the toxicity of blairism tainting our brand. We dont need the disunity or disloyalty, we don't need the scabs.
I don't understand you. We had Labour unified well enough last night in Stoke Central. It was one of the happiest days I've had in twelve months of them. You're not a Labour party member but a Green. Have at it. I wish you and your party every success. Why do you harass Labour people here? You're not even trying to convert Labour supporters, members, voters to Green.

Im not referring to Stoke, I am referring to Copeland and the glee that has accompanied that defeat here, as evidenced above in multiple posts by different people. Gareth Snell looks like a great candidate - although so did Troughton - it's great Nuttall was beaten and UKIP look to be a busted flush, but look at the media and this place, its not stoke that people are on about its copeland.

And yeah, I am a Green, so why the fuck am I virtually the only one left on a supposedly labour/left site defending your party and leadership from attacks from right wing scabs and quislings?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 5:31 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Bad result in Copeland for Labour
Bad result in Stoke for UKIP. UKIP chairman trying vainly to absolve Nuttall from anything posted on his own website. Really? Didn't notice something like that for 4 years?

Where does Labour go from here? Not sure. Will anyone step up and challenge this year?

Also damaged yesterday - three fence panels blown down - fortunately not our side to repair.

I've learned if individual people want representation from their government, they must come together and vote as one. The work begins there, winning election. If their party isn't returned to Parliament they can expect their lives, land and work becoming the property of Tory/UKIP. We have rule of law and it must be obeyed. It is necessary to do what's necessary to win. Let no one frighten or annoy you into not voting or voting against your interests. Remain as one and win.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 5:50 pm

What happened in Stoke did so because Labour people from all over the country worked as one team in order to get the Labour candidate elected. If they stayed away because Corbyn is a poor Labour leader, Stoke Central would have a Tory/UKIP MP instead of a Labour MP. Mr citizen and I have some political differences but we both belong to the Labour party. Keep rifts within the Labour party. You ain't got to like all the other Labour party peoples. We work and study with people we may not like a lot but we do it because cooperative endeavour is better than being someone's slave.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 6:00 pm

PorFavor wrote:Further (but not much further) to my above post -

Corbyn’s Q&A is over.

Here is the full text of Chris Ship’s question, and Jeremy Corbyn’s answer.

Ship: I want to ask you specifically about Copeland. Since you found out that you’d lost a seat to the governing party for the first time since the Falklands War, have you at any point this morning looked in the mirror and asked yourself this question: ‘Could the problem actually be me?’?

Corbyn: No.

Ship: Why not?

Corbyn: Thank you for your question.

Some in the audience applauded Corbyn’s answer. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Even if I were a supporter, I'd want more of an answer than that.

Not defending Corbyn or the rest of the leadership, but would you expect anyone to answer "yes" to that?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 6:02 pm

PorFavor wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:.... To continue.

Corbyn also apportioned blame on the political class, the establishment, Jesus, doesn't he realise he's part of it, his political judgement and naivety at times are jaw dropping.
Naivety? I think it's arrogance. For someone who says he didn't want the job, and then having empirical evidence presented to him to demonstrate that he's actually no good at it, he seems grimly determined to hang on to it.

Edited - typo

I'm unhappy with the current Labour leader, profoundly disappointed and I refrain from denigrating him because his flaws are open and I won't waste energy. I need energy to go to the Labour party members, voters, supporters and leadership we create together. Every Labour person has to work harder mitigating losses a poor leader creates. The Labour party doesn't belong to Corbyn, he's a member and current leader of it.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 6:22 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Bastards, not anyone here, the news headlines.
It's all about the Copeland loss, not the Stoke Central Labour win.
Utterly predictable. And in this case at least, somewhat understandable.

Opposition does very poorly in a seat it already holds is not a story.

Opposition loses a seat in an almost unprecedented way is a story.

Not sure we can pin this one on the Evil Corporate MSM.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 6:24 pm

Temulkar wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@Temulkar

I'm neither gleeful nor excited. And I don't detect much glee or excitement in most of the other contibutors posts here. I'm depressed, exasperated and close to despairing.
Really? comments like Hugo's above - and he is not alone - demonstrate nothing but excitement.

Both sides are scabs to the others now. I use that word deliberately and universally not to cause offence, because that is how both sides now see each other. Blair didnt win three elections, a unified party won three elections. Blair added the sprinkle of a landslide in 97, that is all.

This civil war is the death of Labour, not Corbyn. Corbyn was the party's last chance... Best you hope it's the greens who rise not UKIP, but please don't join, please don't think of helping out, we dont need the toxicity of blairism tainting our brand. We dont need the disunity or disloyalty, we don't need the scabs.

Excitement? I thought my first post, which was mainly about Ukips and how they're finished, was rather uncontroversial?

I think you're looking for controversy and dispute when there is none,

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 6:25 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:The denigrating of Brown is appalling.

Always has been. That's when I started feeling sick with foreboding about the direction of the country. Cameron or May in 2008-09.... I dread to think.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 24 Feb, 2017 6:25 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Somebody sleep deprived and probably quite upset says something silly shocker.

If you want embarrassment, dig up some of the "NUTTALL TO UTTERLY EVISCERATE LABOUR" pieces from "respected" political journalists late last year.

Were there?

Any examples of this?

Link?
Look up the Twitter account of @simonk_133 - he has literally dozens of them.

Also:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rank-field" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-is-game-changer-for-labour-says-frank-field

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... kip-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
New Ukip leader Paul Nuttall plans 'to replace Labour'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... the-tories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
new-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-poses-threat-to-labour-and-the-tories