Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

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HindleA
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Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by HindleA »

Morning

May faces fight over £3.7bn worth of disability payments

Theresa May is facing a high-stakes political battle as the government tries to close a £3.7bn hole in the public finances by stripping benefit entitlements from people with disabilities and health problems.

The government wants MPs and peers to legislate to nullify recent court rulings which broadened the scope of people entitled to personal independence payments: some 160,000 people with conditions including dementia are thought to be affected.

But Labour and the Liberal Democrats are preparing to resist the move, threatening a repeat of the row which last year forced George Osborne, former chancellor, to abandon plans to cut £4.4bn in tax credits for low-income families.


The issue has already caused nervousness at the top of government, amid fears that the issue could undermine Mrs May’s attempt to soften the face of the Tory party and her promise to look after those who are struggling to get by.

Conservative MPs who rebelled against Mr Osborne’s cuts say they are looking at the details of the government’s move on PIPs, which was announced in a low-profile statement from the Department of Work and Pensions on Thursday.

But Labour is planning to raise the issue in an urgent Commons question on Monday and Liberal Democrats in the House of Lords are planning a “fatal motion” intended to block the changes when they are put to the upper house next month.


Debbie Abrahams, shadow work and pensions secretary, said: “By shifting the goalposts, the Tory government will strip entitlements from over 160,000 disabled people, money which the courts believe is rightfully theirs.”

Ministers say the legal rulings before Christmas extended the scope of PIP beyond what was originally intended, creating a hole in the budget of £3.7bn in total over the next five years.

If ministers had not made it clear in written statements that they intended to act to supersede the legal judgments, the Office for Budget Responsibility would have increased the estimates for public spending on PIP ahead of next month’s Budget. Ministers have tabled parliamentary amendments to the PIP regulations “to restore the original aim of the benefit”. Labour is expected to force a vote in the Commons, where Mrs May has a working majority of just 16.

Philip Hammond, chancellor, is determined to keep a tight grip on public spending and is backing the plan to “restore the original aim of the policy and ensure that support goes to those most in need”.


One DWP official said: The fucking crips are getting uppity again“This is not about making savings, it’s about going back to the original intention of the policy.”

One court ruling decided that people with diabetes should be entitled to PIPs because they monitored their condition at home, while ministers contend the policy was intended to help those with the most severe cases.

Another court ruling said that people with “overwhelming psychological distress”, including agoraphobia, should be given assistance with mobility, while ministers claim the policy was originally conceived for people with conditions such as blindness.

A spokesman for Disability Rights UK said of the proposed government changes: “These new regulations will hit disabled people and those with serious health conditions very hard.

“The DWP itself admits this will include those who have a learning disability, diabetes, epilepsy, anxiety or dementia.” The DWP declined to confirm how many people might be affected.

PIP and other disability benefits are expected to cost taxpayers £16.6bn in 2016-17, rising to £19bn by 2021-22.

https://www.ft.com/content/2b3a7aa8-faa ... 969e0d3b65" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FT
seeingclearly
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by seeingclearly »

Indeed they are a bunch of sneaky bastards.

I remember giving pennies as a kid for the Sunshine Homes, and collecting silver paper in balls for the blind. Took months to do, never anticipated the huge waste of the 21st century, this brave new world....

Too early for good mornings, I am off to get some sleep before daylight is upon us.

(I watched the coverage of Copeland and Stoke, first foray into tv in a long time. Biased as fuck. Get back some unity, forget about differences, otherwise we are stuck with this fuckwittery till the day we die. And combat brexit in the real world if you have to. But please stop giving in to to all this - see HindleA's post above - because all of it means that everyones rights are as cheap as a sly under cover denial of legal judgement by a government hell bent on reducing all of us to as little as they can get away with. )
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all. A quick look-in before I go food shopping as per.
Education Policy‏@EduPolicyInst 6m6 minutes ago
More
ICYMI - Yesterday @MayorofLondon launched the capital's 2017 Annual Education Report, produced by EPI. Read it here: https://epi.org.uk/publications-and-research/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Interesting.

Education Policy Institute used to be known as Centre Forum and were the LibDems main social policy thinktank. They're still headed up by David Laws. And they have firepower too - their director of school systems and performance used to be a DfE stats geek.

So...Policy Exchange...Education Policy...oh...where's the Labour one?

This seems to be on of the problems with labour's edu policy over the past 6-7 years - there's no evidence-based research thinktank behind them pushing through ideas.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
gilsey
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by gilsey »

Good morning.

I'm not sure who was feeling this glee and excitement that Tem noticed yesterday, I felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach, again. I don't read SH's posts mind. Chunky Mark had a good rant echoing my thoughts.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's easy for the media to find people to mock Corbyn, it wasn't hard with EdM either, but if you oppose the government you vote for the opposition, that's all there is to it, and in Copeland there's no question over who the opposition is.

It's another stage on the inexorable drift to the right of the country's political centre of gravity, inexorable until it isn't, and no-one can say why it will change and when that will be. To imagine there's a left-wing politician who could drag it back single-handedly is to be as delusional as people who believe that May has any interest in her government working for everyone. Her cynicism is breathtaking and I can only assume that she's popular because she's not a toff and she's saying the 'right' things on brexit.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Willow904 »

Tens of thousands of children at more than 800 schools, nurseries and colleges in London are being exposed to illegal levels of air pollution that risk causing lifelong health problems, the Guardian can disclose.

A study identifies 802 educational institutions where pupils as young as three are being exposed to levels of nitrogen dioxide that breach EU legal limits and which the government accepts are harmful to health.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... en-dioxide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

I would read the posts again, and not jst bu Hugo, the thread was swimming in excitement at Labour and Corbyn's problems. Frankly I am sick of defending labour, Its your party, you carry on destroying it... But dont whine about labour when its all over, you've all made your bed.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Temulkar wrote:I would read the posts again, and not jst bu Hugo, the thread was swimming in excitement at Labour and Corbyn's problems. Frankly I am sick of defending labour, Its your party, you carry on destroying it... But dont whine about labour when its all over, you've all made your bed.
I am neither a Labour member nor supporter.

Rereding yesterday I see no excitement at all. If there were any prospects for a change of course there might be. But there is none.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

SpinningHugo wrote: I am neither a Labour member nor supporter
Yes, we know ;)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
SpinningHugo
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

What I say or do doesn't matter, for the reasons Freedland gives here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://www.alliance-scotland.org.uk/new ... view/1417/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Scottish Social Security Assessment Process Focus Group - Carers


"As you will know, parts of the social security system are being devolved to Scotland. The ALLIANCE has been commissioned by the Scottish Government to gather the views of 'seldom heard' groups on what the social security assessment process should look like. "
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... -iraq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Brexit is another Iraq

Mainlymacro
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by HindleA »

Checking fo CCTV,how does Tem know we've made our beds?
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Freedland is a terrible commentator and always has been, almost the personification of flabby complacent comfortable "liberalism".
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Willow904 »

Temulkar wrote:I would read the posts again, and not jst bu Hugo, the thread was swimming in excitement at Labour and Corbyn's problems. Frankly I am sick of defending labour, Its your party, you carry on destroying it... But dont whine about labour when its all over, you've all made your bed.
The healthy function of a discussion forum requires respect for fellow posters, even when you disagree with their point of view.
Your generalised attacks on all the posters on this forum shows a lack of respect for all those who post here that is not acceptable to me.
If you disagree with specific points about politics, it would be appreciated if you could stick to those points, rather than indulge in sweeping insults of those posting them.
We are all ordinary people, potential voters, who have a range of opinions. None of us are under any obligation to think in any particular way or support any particular party or ideology and quite frankly your insistence that we should simply bemuses me.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

Willow904 wrote:
Temulkar wrote:I would read the posts again, and not jst bu Hugo, the thread was swimming in excitement at Labour and Corbyn's problems. Frankly I am sick of defending labour, Its your party, you carry on destroying it... But dont whine about labour when its all over, you've all made your bed.
The healthy function of a discussion forum requires respect for fellow posters, even when you disagree with their point of view.
Your generalised attacks on all the posters on this forum shows a lack of respect for all those who post here that is not acceptable to me.
If you disagree with specific points about politics, it would be appreciated if you could stick to those points, rather than indulge in sweeping insults of those posting them.
We are all ordinary people, potential voters, who have a range of opinions. None of us are under any obligation to think in any particular way or support any particular party or ideology and quite frankly your insistence that we should simply bemuses me.
Then block me.. I'm not being dictated what I can and cannot write by you or anyone...
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

Frankly why should I care, the greens will benefit hugely when the next coup or the one after wins.
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

I've just re-read yesterday's posts (re-re-read to be more accurate).

No glee. No excitement.

(Apart from OpenGoal's efforts.)
gilsey
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by gilsey »

PorFavor wrote:I've just re-read yesterday's posts (re-re-read to be more accurate).

No glee. No excitement.

(Apart from OpenGoal's efforts.)
You've done that so I don't have to.
I wasn't going to, actually, reliving yesterday? No thanks.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
gilsey
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by gilsey »

Thread which echoes the 'lone wolves' comment of someone here the other day, or maybe at the other place. Re USA.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

PorFavor wrote:I've just re-read yesterday's posts (re-re-read to be more accurate).

No glee. No excitement.

(Apart from OpenGoal's efforts.)
Ignore him.

It's the language of people caught out. People who called it right get accused of enjoying the carnage they had nothing to do with creating.

Loads more of this to come. We'll be accused of enjoying Brexit job losses and all.

IDS stuff.
SpinningHugo
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Freedland is a terrible commentator and always has been, almost the personification of flabby complacent comfortable "liberalism".

Nah

That would be Martin Kettle.

I ratherime Freedland (and Rentoul).
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've just re-read yesterday's posts (re-re-read to be more accurate).

No glee. No excitement.

(Apart from OpenGoal's efforts.)
Ignore him.

It's the language of people caught out. People who called it right get accused of enjoying the carnage they had nothing to do with creating.

Loads more of this to come. We'll be accused of enjoying Brexit job losses and all.

IDS stuff.
You're right, of course. I just felt (for some reason which presently eludes me) that I would extend him the courtesy of a response. I'll leave him in peace to pick his "scabs", or whatever.





Edited to add inverted commas in an effort to de-personalise the scabs!
Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 25 Feb, 2017 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pk1
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by pk1 »

SpinningHugo wrote:What I say or do doesn't matter, for the reasons Freedland gives here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just read and agreed with every word. It's as depressing as hell but the PLP are frozen; they can't make moves against him.

I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
There are only two types of Corbyn supporters left now. Those who don’t care if Labour never wins another election, and Tories
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Even from you SH, praising Rentoul is just trolling :)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

Caught out? proven wrong? IDS? LOLOLOLOL. At every point i the unfolding labour disaster, I am going to tell you I told you so, I am going to ram it home at every stage.

Corbyn was Labour's last chance I have said that consistently over the last two years. The 2015 election happened, scotland is irretrievably lost. Five years of civil war is the end of the party, just like it did for the old Liberals.

Labour had to come together in 2015 or at the latest after last year to regain any relevance, and they were only going to do that by harnessing a mass popular movement as they once were. They had one chance - however flawed corbyn is -and they failed, it's over. Hugo is right in that respect. And you can complain all you want, but the democratically elected leader has been deliberately and fatally undermined from day one. Do you really think the membership that supported him are going to just take that and let it go back to business as ususal? Most will leave taking their money with them, hopefully to the greens, as will unions who reaffiliated, as will momentum. The welsh assembly already only exists on Kirsty Williams' goodwill, that wont last, nor will the welsh labour stroongholds vote hold. Enough of those went tory in 2015 t prove that..

Whats really funny is the same people who brought down Milliband have done iit Corbyn.
howsillyofme1
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by howsillyofme1 »

pk1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:What I say or do doesn't matter, for the reasons Freedland gives here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just read and agreed with every word. It's as depressing as hell but the PLP are frozen; they can't make moves against him.

I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
There are only two types of Corbyn supporters left now. Those who don’t care if Labour never wins another election, and Tories
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.

I see there is no change to the weak lazy shite that is posted on this forum now (apart from Hindle and a few others)

I have never read such complete and utter bollocks in my life....well since I read Tubby's last post that is (so my life must be very short)

Interesting to see you are all floundering with nothing positive to add......some of us are sticking with Labour as we see it as the best hope to stop this march rightwards as promoted by that master of rendition and cowardice D Miliband this morning, supported by the dead hand of Mandelson (he was such a man of integrity wasn't he)

You may also notice that I have not mentioned Corbyn up to now.....is that because I do not really see him as the issue here and that the fundamental problem is with the make up and organisation of the party from top to bottom...a rot that started in the late part of the last Labour Government

Continue with you frothing and ranting folks but I have not seen any indications that those who dominate the board now have anything really to offer the discussion apart from saying they hate Corbyn, hate Labour and support someone else

Corbyn is weakened after Copeland but I have seen no suggestions as to who should replace him.....go on give us a name so we can start a bit of character assassination on them...Own Smith, David Miliband, Angela Eagle.......you are clearly looking for someone who is both for and against Brexit, for and against austerity, for and against immigration and who also has a thick enough skin to put up with the character assassination led by the non-entities in the media (Renoul hahaha, Sam Bourne crap novelist etc)

I will leave you to the Tubby and Hugo show......
pk1
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by pk1 »

If you didn't see it, may I recommend watching yesterday's Newsnight, particularly the interview with Emily Thornberry (from 07.40mins)

Couple that with Ian Lavery's ludicrous interview with Andrew Neil on Daily Politics yesterday in which he declared that Corbyn is the most popular politician in the country, it's an indication of just how hapless the Labour front bench has become.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-24022017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

howsillyofme1 wrote:
pk1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:What I say or do doesn't matter, for the reasons Freedland gives here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just read and agreed with every word. It's as depressing as hell but the PLP are frozen; they can't make moves against him.

I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
There are only two types of Corbyn supporters left now. Those who don’t care if Labour never wins another election, and Tories
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.

I see there is no change to the weak lazy shite that is posted on this forum now (apart from Hindle and a few others)

I have never read such complete and utter bollocks in my life....well since I read Tubby's last post that is (so my life must be very short)

Interesting to see you are all floundering with nothing positive to add......some of us are sticking with Labour as we see it as the best hope to stop this march rightwards as promoted by that master of rendition and cowardice D Miliband this morning, supported by the dead hand of Mandelson (he was such a man of integrity wasn't he)

You may also notice that I have not mentioned Corbyn up to now.....is that because I do not really see him as the issue here and that the fundamental problem is with the make up and organisation of the party from top to bottom...a rot that started in the late part of the last Labour Government

Continue with you frothing and ranting folks but I have not seen any indications that those who dominate the board now have anything really to offer the discussion apart from saying they hate Corbyn, hate Labour and support someone else

Corbyn is weakened after Copeland but I have seen no suggestions as to who should replace him.....go on give us a name so we can start a bit of character assassination on them...Own Smith, David Miliband, Angela Eagle.......you are clearly looking for someone who is both for and against Brexit, for and against austerity, for and against immigration and who also has a thick enough skin to put up with the character assassination led by the non-entities in the media (Renoul hahaha, Sam Bourne crap novelist etc)

I will leave you to the Tubby and Hugo show......

But no smugness or glee Howsilly cant you see that, it's merely reasoned responses, surely you can see Tubby is correct and I am merely IDS in disguise. I personally feel humbled to be in the intellectual shadow of such a towering ego as Tubby's.
yahyah
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by yahyah »

PorFavor wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've just re-read yesterday's posts (re-re-read to be more accurate).

No glee. No excitement.

(Apart from OpenGoal's efforts.)
Ignore him.

It's the language of people caught out. People who called it right get accused of enjoying the carnage they had nothing to do with creating.

Loads more of this to come. We'll be accused of enjoying Brexit job losses and all.

IDS stuff.
You're right, of course. I just felt (for some reason which presently eludes me) that I would extend him the courtesy of a response. I'll leave him in peace to pick his "scabs", or whatever.

Edited to add inverted commas in an effort to de-personalise the scabs!
[
/quote]

It didn't work PF. Good job I've just eaten lunch. :lol:
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Temulkar wrote:I would read the posts again, and not jst bu Hugo, the thread was swimming in excitement at Labour and Corbyn's problems. Frankly I am sick of defending labour, Its your party, you carry on destroying it... But dont whine about labour when its all over, you've all made your bed.
As a writer you might want to develop a more effective approach to communication. For example, start from the fact that the people on this board are all very different, and don't actually know each other. There is no love lost between many of us. There is no "you all".
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by HindleA »

[youtube]dmF6vmUVSsc[/youtube]






Close enough.
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Temulkar wrote:I would read the posts again, and not jst bu Hugo, the thread was swimming in excitement at Labour and Corbyn's problems. Frankly I am sick of defending labour, Its your party, you carry on destroying it... But dont whine about labour when its all over, you've all made your bed.
As a writer you might want to develop a more effective approach to communication. For example, start from the fact that the people on this board are all very different, and don't actually know each other. There is no love lost between many of us. There is no "you all".
You lookin' at me?
yahyah
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by yahyah »

pk1 wrote:If you didn't see it, may I recommend watching yesterday's Newsnight, particularly the interview with Emily Thornberry (from 07.40mins)

Couple that with Ian Lavery's ludicrous interview with Andrew Neil on Daily Politics yesterday in which he declared that Corbyn is the most popular politician in the country, it's an indication of just how hapless the Labour front bench has become.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-24022017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe Lavery's a pal of IDS. He believes Corbyn is popular.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Hear hear, RS.

I'm sure I'm not alone in finding this place less and less enjoyable.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
yahyah
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by yahyah »

Yes, people coming here to tell us how wrong we are is soooo enjoyable.

Edited to add - TinyClanger is right, there is no 'we', we are all individuals and have different views on most things, including Marmite.
Last edited by yahyah on Sat 25 Feb, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

howsillyofme1 wrote:
pk1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:What I say or do doesn't matter, for the reasons Freedland gives here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just read and agreed with every word. It's as depressing as hell but the PLP are frozen; they can't make moves against him.

I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
There are only two types of Corbyn supporters left now. Those who don’t care if Labour never wins another election, and Tories
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.

I see there is no change to the weak lazy shite that is posted on this forum now (apart from Hindle and a few others)

I have never read such complete and utter bollocks in my life....well since I read Tubby's last post that is (so my life must be very short)

Interesting to see you are all floundering with nothing positive to add......some of us are sticking with Labour as we see it as the best hope to stop this march rightwards as promoted by that master of rendition and cowardice D Miliband this morning, supported by the dead hand of Mandelson (he was such a man of integrity wasn't he)

You may also notice that I have not mentioned Corbyn up to now.....is that because I do not really see him as the issue here and that the fundamental problem is with the make up and organisation of the party from top to bottom...a rot that started in the late part of the last Labour Government

Continue with you frothing and ranting folks but I have not seen any indications that those who dominate the board now have anything really to offer the discussion apart from saying they hate Corbyn, hate Labour and support someone else

Corbyn is weakened after Copeland but I have seen no suggestions as to who should replace him.....go on give us a name so we can start a bit of character assassination on them...Own Smith, David Miliband, Angela Eagle.......you are clearly looking for someone who is both for and against Brexit, for and against austerity, for and against immigration and who also has a thick enough skin to put up with the character assassination led by the non-entities in the media (Renoul hahaha, Sam Bourne crap novelist etc)

I will leave you to the Tubby and Hugo show......
The Board is not currently what it was because a load of people left. Hopefully some more will come in time. But as I've mentioned before, the dropping in to tell us off (largely you and Tem) probably doesn't make the board more attractive. I, personally (I can't speak for anyone else here because I don't know them) would really appreciate it if you both a) stop referring to us as if we are an identical group and b) stop talking to us in a way I find it extremely unlikely that you would do face to face (see the rules of posting here).

Thanks!
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Mind you - I do understand why they left.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I also agree with that latest (utterly moronic, even they are capable of much better) OS post. To the members section ahoy!
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by PorFavor »

I would no more ban OpenSeas than I would expel the 300,00 Jeremy Corbyn-leadership voting Labour Party members.
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

yahyah wrote:Yes, people coming here to tell us how wrong we are is soooo enjoyable.
You tell us how wrong we are all the time.

And lets not forget it was a denzien of this place who thought giving a bad review on my work was suitable behaviour.

Thank you margaret...
Temulkar
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Temulkar »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Mind you - I do understand why they left.
No offence, but I post here far more often than any other place, so fuck off with your dropping in. I am a member, one of the earliest as it happens, and I come and go here as I please.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

You can come and go as you please, and am happy to hear your views, as I've said in the past. What isn't OK is the way you talk to us as if we are one group. And your language and tone (above) is not OK and does not comply with the rules of posting here.
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pk1
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by pk1 »

RobertSnozers wrote:
pk1 wrote:
I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
There are only two types of Corbyn supporters left now. Those who don’t care if Labour never wins another election, and Tories
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.
OK, let's be absolutely clear about this, because this point is offensive beyond belief. Many of the people making this point don't just not care about winning elections - they have been actively trying to lose them. The likes of Blair and Mandelson and their supporters undermining Labour a week before two tricky byelections, the people - several of them here - who have declared that they want Labour to lose in 2020 so they can get rid of Corbyn and get the party back to the kind of path they prefer. The people who declare that Brexit is the most important issue and they can't support Labour if it doesn't do what they want it to. The 'Labour Supporters' who have been banging on at anyone who'll listen and many who won't to vote Green just to undermine Labour.

Meanwhile folk from Momentum turned out in numbers for the by elections and pounded the streets to try and win. So don't you dare tell me that Corbyn supporters don't care about winning elections.
There is plenty of evidence that these people exist. Have a look at the unofficial Labour Party Forum on facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/282925751725936/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and you'll see plenty of members declaring that they don't care if we lose in 2020 & as soon as Corbyn's gone, so are they. That's membership of a fanclub, not a political party aiming for government.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Can I ask about Open Seas? This is not a person I'm familiar with.
In fact can I ask about both Open Seas and Hugo - what exactly is the story here (in whoever would care to answer's view).
I asked Hugo himself (?) the other week, but I am none the wiser really.

I suppose my view is that we can't control other people's behaviour - so if someone is disruptive, is it not because we let them be disruptive? And if so how do we mitigate against it?
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HindleA
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by HindleA »

Aaargh I've blocked Frank,or is it Jimmy"and there's more)Cricket.No more quoting,would be appreciated.
pk1
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by pk1 »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Can I ask about Open Seas? This is not a person I'm familiar with.
In fact can I ask about both Open Seas and Hugo - what exactly is the story here (in whoever would care to answer's view).
I asked Hugo himself (?) the other week, but I am none the wiser really.

I suppose my view is that we can't control other people's behaviour - so if someone is disruptive, is it not because we let them be disruptive? And if so how do we mitigate against it?
They can only disrupt if people respond to their provocation.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Anyway.

In actual news, Sadiq Khan on nationalism:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... and-racism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since I regard nationalism, bigotry and racism as intimately linked "as divisive" seems an odd way to put it. Having said that, while I did not support Scottish independence, I would see forcing them to leave the EU against their will as inevitably stoking that particular fire.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by tinyclanger2 »

I would like to add that I very much dislike Theresa May.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... g-everyone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May: Copeland victory shows Tories are governing for everyone

Tem, are you perchance writing Theresa May's speeches?
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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Blair was right. Debate is happening now. In the Lords formally. It's got away from us far too far already. Wait till after Copeland, eh?

How many votes is he supposed to have lost anyway?
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