And yet, you mainly seem to drop in here to throw abuse at people, then get in a massive strop when you're called out on it.Temulkar wrote:No offence, but I post here far more often than any other place, so fuck off with your dropping in. I am a member, one of the earliest as it happens, and I come and go here as I please.tinyclanger2 wrote:Mind you - I do understand why they left.
RobertSnozers wrote:OK, let's be absolutely clear about this, because this point is offensive beyond belief. Many of the people making this point don't just not care about winning elections - they have been actively trying to lose them. The likes of Blair and Mandelson and their supporters undermining Labour a week before two tricky byelections, the people - several of them here - who have declared that they want Labour to lose in 2020 so they can get rid of Corbyn and get the party back to the kind of path they prefer. The people who declare that Brexit is the most important issue and they can't support Labour if it doesn't do what they want it to. The 'Labour Supporters' who have been banging on at anyone who'll listen and many who won't to vote Green just to undermine Labour.pk1 wrote:
I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.There are only two types of Corbyn supporters left now. Those who don’t care if Labour never wins another election, and Tories
Meanwhile folk from Momentum turned out in numbers for the by elections and pounded the streets to try and win. So don't you dare tell me that Corbyn supporters don't care about winning elections.
I think this is one of the best thing's you have posted (I don't agree with many of your opinions).SpinningHugo wrote:
I don't think anyone thinks that Corbyn supporters want to lose. I do think many campaigned valiantly for Labour (as I have done in the past, sometimes winning, sometimes not). I don't doubt their good faith, I doubt their judgement.
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Blair was right. Debate is happening now. In the Lords formally. It's got away from us far too far already. Wait till after Copeland, eh?
How many votes is he supposed to have lost anyway?
I don't find it helpful to simply guess why Labour lost Copeland. Presumably those activists knocking on doors will have been given some clue, but I don't have access to that data. Corbyn does and I expect him to act on it. That's his job. In general the results seem to reflect the national polls and the Tories appear to be popular with leave voters as far as I can tell. Do the results suggest that the EU referendum was more influential than local factors? It's certainly worrying that the local hospital issue in Copeland didn't benefit Labour more, especially given a strong local candidate.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Blair was right. Debate is happening now. In the Lords formally. It's got away from us far too far already. Wait till after Copeland, eh?
How many votes is he supposed to have lost anyway?
We could all take short break and watch Wales and Scotland knock lumps out of each other.yahyah wrote:That's what we need more of.
Pics of animals, something to stimulate oxytocin, the feel good/bonding hormone, not fractious 'I'm right/You are wrong/You are a troll because I don't agree with you'.
With love and affection.PorFavor wrote: You lookin' at me?
Muhammad Ali's son reportedly detained under Trump's travel ban:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 98841.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'Where did you get your name from? Are you Muslim?'
Mr Ali was born in Philadelphia and holds a US passport.
IHindleA wrote:I don't agree that the portrayal of all Corbyn supporters was offensive,it was thoroughly despicable.Long term members,through thick and thin,here,continuing to campaign for Labour(of note overwhelmingly of "wrong brother view"),whilst Ganesh 'thick as shit" tributeers, sneer.Reprehensible.
Personally,far,far worse than telling me to "fuck off".Hence,response.
Not a debating point.A statement.
tinyclanger2 wrote:The Board is not currently what it was because a load of people left. Hopefully some more will come in time. But as I've mentioned before, the dropping in to tell us off (largely you and Tem) probably doesn't make the board more attractive. I, personally (I can't speak for anyone else here because I don't know them) would really appreciate it if you both a) stop referring to us as if we are an identical group and b) stop talking to us in a way I find it extremely unlikely that you would do face to face (see the rules of posting here).howsillyofme1 wrote:pk1 wrote: Just read and agreed with every word. It's as depressing as hell but the PLP are frozen; they can't make moves against him.
I read an article yesterday, the final sentence of which was:
Not hard to disagree with that but the realisation that there are Labour voters who don't care if Labour are ever returned to power, is sobering.
I see there is no change to the weak lazy shite that is posted on this forum now (apart from Hindle and a few others)
I have never read such complete and utter bollocks in my life....well since I read Tubby's last post that is (so my life must be very short)
Interesting to see you are all floundering with nothing positive to add......some of us are sticking with Labour as we see it as the best hope to stop this march rightwards as promoted by that master of rendition and cowardice D Miliband this morning, supported by the dead hand of Mandelson (he was such a man of integrity wasn't he)
You may also notice that I have not mentioned Corbyn up to now.....is that because I do not really see him as the issue here and that the fundamental problem is with the make up and organisation of the party from top to bottom...a rot that started in the late part of the last Labour Government
Continue with you frothing and ranting folks but I have not seen any indications that those who dominate the board now have anything really to offer the discussion apart from saying they hate Corbyn, hate Labour and support someone else
Corbyn is weakened after Copeland but I have seen no suggestions as to who should replace him.....go on give us a name so we can start a bit of character assassination on them...Own Smith, David Miliband, Angela Eagle.......you are clearly looking for someone who is both for and against Brexit, for and against austerity, for and against immigration and who also has a thick enough skin to put up with the character assassination led by the non-entities in the media (Renoul hahaha, Sam Bourne crap novelist etc)
I will leave you to the Tubby and Hugo show......
Thanks!
This paper uses Twitter data to forecast the outcome of the 2015 UK General Election. While a number of empirical studies to date have demonstrated striking levels of accuracy in estimating election results using this new data source, there have been no genuine i.e. pre-election forecasts issued to date. Furthermore there have been widely varying methods and models employed with seemingly little agreement on the core criteria required for an accurate estimate. We attempt to address this deficit with our ‘baseline’ model of prediction that incorporates sentiment analysis and prior party support to generate a true forecast of parliament seat allocation. Our results indicate a hung parliament with Labour holding the majority of seats.
The Board is not currently what it was because a load of people left. Hopefully some more will come in time. But as I've mentioned before, the dropping in to tell us off (largely you and Tem) probably doesn't make the board more attractive. I, personally (I can't speak for anyone else here because I don't know them) would really appreciate it if you both a) stop referring to us as if we are an identical group and b) stop talking to us in a way I find it extremely unlikely that you would do face to face (see the rules of posting here).
Thanks!
hsom wrote:I am not telling you that you are wrong to be honest...I am just saying that this particular post was symptomatic of some of the lazy rubbish that certain posters (and not all as I said in my post above) continue to post
The post I referred to was actually far more generalistic than anything I posted as was offensive as it was wrong...I have thus designated it as 'shite'
It is the reason I left originally, the consistent ranting about Corbyn with no nuance and consideration for any other possibilities
I did spend a lot of time trying to explain my position but was called a 'cultist' and various other things...suggesting that the poster who did this was either unable to follow an argument or was just totally biased to seeing what they wanted to see
yes, I'm interested in your views, but am not thrilled with being lumped together into one homogeneous group and shouted out for stuff I've never done, thought or said.
Last time when I was here discussion Brexit - I came back if you remember to help support PfY who was getting a torrid time from some of you folks...and there were some pretty abusive and angry posts. You then went on an irrational rant against me for calling one of Tubby's posts 'incoherent' which to be honest still describes a lot of what he posts, as he doesn't seem to be able to see past Corbyn.
I very much dispute the notion that my intervention was either irrational or a rant
It is a bit much when Hugo is more moderate than 50% of the posters on here - and he likes John Rentoul!
agree wholeheartedly
I came back today to reply to that particular post as it was a ridiculous statement and I couldn't let it pass
great - but why accuse "all" of us when you are dealing with a particular point made by one poster?
Labour is in a difficult position, it is there because the party is not happy in its own skin and is looking for some direction. If the party wants to change the leader then put someone up against him and win. If the candidate is good then I will vote for him or her. What matters to me is not the personality of the leader but their policies and direction of travel
agree completely
I challenged you earlier to come up with another name......I have yet to see one come up
There is indeed very little to choose from. That's a major part of the problem. But I don't recall being responsible for the way that Labour selects its candidates (ie: responsible for the limited names available) if I was and didn't notice that was indeed a major slip up on my part.
I don't post here any more because I find the atmosphere poor and you cannot get very far without someone bringing up Corbyn and then followed by a whole lot of moaning about him...or if it isn't him then it is Brexit followed by a lot of moaning about Corby
This is despite some posters, highlighting interesting links and bringing other subjects to the board...most of which go uncommented on
Don't blame me and Temulkar that this board is less popular and more tetchy than it was - it wan't us that caused PfY from to walk away was it?
In a way yes. Think SDP.
Beyond that, Tem's mode of communication is just not acceptable.
And the attitude when he went was pretty much 'Good Riddance' from one or two of the more unpleasant individuals on here
Paul leaving was indeed a major blow.
TC2 carry on blaming me and Temulkar if you want - speaking for myself I don't really care that much (although I will continue to read as I find some of the comments on here interesting - even if most people on here ignore them)
I'm not blaming you or Temulkar - I'm asking you a) not to tar us all with same brush and b) to communicate in a way which is more constructive. That is all. Neither you nor Tem had anything to do with the split, but the kind of approach and tone you both use doesn't do anything to make the atmosphere any more attractive. I don't mean to be personal, it's just a fact. I really would appreciate not having you accuse me of ranting (I don't) or Tem tell me to "fuck off". Not necessary, and I would be genuinely amazed if he said it to my face.
I will also respond occasionally if there is a post, like today, that I think is ridiculous and should be challenged
i) The Group Marriage, may not be working out well for all involved.yahyah wrote:If FTN was a couple going to marital therapy, what would the therapist suggest ?
Watch out for Thenardier...he's hiding down there.HindleA wrote:I am currently carrying Marius through the sewers of Paris,I'll have to watch later.
tinyclanger2 wrote:My comments in blue
The Board is not currently what it was because a load of people left. Hopefully some more will come in time. But as I've mentioned before, the dropping in to tell us off (largely you and Tem) probably doesn't make the board more attractive. I, personally (I can't speak for anyone else here because I don't know them) would really appreciate it if you both a) stop referring to us as if we are an identical group and b) stop talking to us in a way I find it extremely unlikely that you would do face to face (see the rules of posting here).
Thanks!hsom wrote:I am not telling you that you are wrong to be honest...I am just saying that this particular post was symptomatic of some of the lazy rubbish that certain posters (and not all as I said in my post above) continue to post
The post I referred to was actually far more generalistic than anything I posted as was offensive as it was wrong...I have thus designated it as 'shite'
It is the reason I left originally, the consistent ranting about Corbyn with no nuance and consideration for any other possibilities
I did spend a lot of time trying to explain my position but was called a 'cultist' and various other things...suggesting that the poster who did this was either unable to follow an argument or was just totally biased to seeing what they wanted to see
yes, I'm interested in your views, but am not thrilled with being lumped together into one homogeneous group and shouted out for stuff I've never done, thought or said.
Last time when I was here discussion Brexit - I came back if you remember to help support PfY who was getting a torrid time from some of you folks...and there were some pretty abusive and angry posts. You then went on an irrational rant against me for calling one of Tubby's posts 'incoherent' which to be honest still describes a lot of what he posts, as he doesn't seem to be able to see past Corbyn.
I very much dispute the notion that my intervention was either irrational or a rant
It is a bit much when Hugo is more moderate than 50% of the posters on here - and he likes John Rentoul!
agree wholeheartedly
I came back today to reply to that particular post as it was a ridiculous statement and I couldn't let it pass
great - but why accuse "all" of us when you are dealing with a particular point made by one poster?
Labour is in a difficult position, it is there because the party is not happy in its own skin and is looking for some direction. If the party wants to change the leader then put someone up against him and win. If the candidate is good then I will vote for him or her. What matters to me is not the personality of the leader but their policies and direction of travel
agree completely
I challenged you earlier to come up with another name......I have yet to see one come up
There is indeed very little to choose from. That's a major part of the problem. But I don't recall being responsible for the way that Labour selects its candidates (ie: responsible for the limited names available) if I was and didn't notice that was indeed a major slip up on my part.
I don't post here any more because I find the atmosphere poor and you cannot get very far without someone bringing up Corbyn and then followed by a whole lot of moaning about him...or if it isn't him then it is Brexit followed by a lot of moaning about Corby
This is despite some posters, highlighting interesting links and bringing other subjects to the board...most of which go uncommented on
Don't blame me and Temulkar that this board is less popular and more tetchy than it was - it wan't us that caused PfY from to walk away was it?
In a way yes. Think SDP.
Beyond that, Tem's mode of communication is just not acceptable.
And the attitude when he went was pretty much 'Good Riddance' from one or two of the more unpleasant individuals on here
Paul leaving was indeed a major blow.
TC2 carry on blaming me and Temulkar if you want - speaking for myself I don't really care that much (although I will continue to read as I find some of the comments on here interesting - even if most people on here ignore them)
I'm not blaming you or Temulkar - I'm asking you a) not to tar us all with same brush and b) to communicate in a way which is more constructive. That is all. Neither you nor Tem had anything to do with the split, but the kind of approach and tone you both use doesn't do anything to make the atmosphere any more attractive. I don't mean to be personal, it's just a fact. I really would appreciate not having you accuse me of ranting (I don't) or Tem tell me to "fuck off". Not necessary, and I would be genuinely amazed if he said it to my face.
I will also respond occasionally if there is a post, like today, that I think is ridiculous and should be challenged
HEAR! HEAR!seeingclearly wrote:Indeed they are a bunch of sneaky bastards.
I remember giving pennies as a kid for the Sunshine Homes, and collecting silver paper in balls for the blind. Took months to do, never anticipated the huge waste of the 21st century, this brave new world....
Too early for good mornings, I am off to get some sleep before daylight is upon us.
(I watched the coverage of Copeland and Stoke, first foray into tv in a long time. Biased as fuck. Get back some unity, forget about differences, otherwise we are stuck with this fuckwittery till the day we die. And combat brexit in the real world if you have to. But please stop giving in to to all this - see HindleA's post above - because all of it means that everyones rights are as cheap as a sly under cover denial of legal judgement by a government hell bent on reducing all of us to as little as they can get away with. )
(cJA edit)gilsey wrote:...if you oppose the government you vote for the opposition, that's all there is to it...
WHAT !refitman wrote:Great win by Scotland. Wales pretty poor, all told.
Not true. They disrupt the ethos of a place, change the discourse, blocking them is no good because others see their posts, especially potential newcomers. They often seem smugly in control, and a leading light, and won't give up because their aim is the downfall or complete turning of the board. I suggest a three warnings snd out policy, with a chance of a return if flaming/trollery individual desists. Multiple personas are often a hallmark. i have watched better boards than this destroyed in everything but name through inability to grow and a wastage of good members through sheer distaste. The internet is not a democracy, it is a place where people can do and be things that are not acceptable in real life. If you were all in a bar and someone came along and was hugely disruptive you would have the option to take yourself away, collectively, and get away to somewhere more congenial. A quieter part of the pub perhaps. But a forum is a fixed place. It is not about tolerance either, or any of the usual rules of human behaviour, because what has landed on you, for whatever reasons, is a parasite that will eat out your heart. And btw, it is important to remember in all of this that the people who recognise the parasite are not the problem. They simply see what others refuse to recognise. (btw my professional life was in web development with a special interest in online communities) They often become marginalised as the parasite gains ground and becomes tacitly supported.pk1 wrote:They can only disrupt if people respond to their provocation.tinyclanger2 wrote:Can I ask about Open Seas? This is not a person I'm familiar with.
In fact can I ask about both Open Seas and Hugo - what exactly is the story here (in whoever would care to answer's view).
I asked Hugo himself (?) the other week, but I am none the wiser really.
I suppose my view is that we can't control other people's behaviour - so if someone is disruptive, is it not because we let them be disruptive? And if so how do we mitigate against it?
I really do feel I should point out that no one on this forum "came up with" Owen Smith. Labour MPs "came up with" Owen Smith.As to coming up with a name for a replacement for Corbyn......I wasn't referring to you specifically, more that there are some people on here who have made it their mission to get rid of him...but the best they came up with was Owen Smith!
And travelling with his mum, who was let through because of a photo with her husband, while her son was detained and interrogated. Mum, distraught as anyone would be.tinyclanger2 wrote:A lazy Clanger's link-posting presents:
Muhammad Ali's son reportedly detained under Trump's travel ban:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 98841.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'Where did you get your name from? Are you Muslim?'
Mr Ali was born in Philadelphia and holds a US passport.
Again, I don't know who you are talking about. I don't know specifically why you or others left. I must have missed that memo.howsillyofme1 wrote:I think it is symptomatic of the state of things here when you have one of the more unpleasant posters on here, who has been cited by quite a few as one of the reasons they left to post something suggesting people who happen to disagree are 'stalkers'
No wonder this board has gone downhill and lost so many contributors when this sort of nonsense is allowed to stand without comment
I don't come back to 'stir up hatred' or 'stalk' I just come back to counter some of the stuff that is posted and point out the poor arguments
It is no point discussing politics any more on here - I was burnt last time I did that on here by having the gall to think that Corbyn was pretty much right in his approach to A50.
Willow904 wrote:@howsillyofme1
I really do feel I should point out that no one on this forum "came up with" Owen Smith. Labour MPs "came up with" Owen Smith.As to coming up with a name for a replacement for Corbyn......I wasn't referring to you specifically, more that there are some people on here who have made it their mission to get rid of him...but the best they came up with was Owen Smith!
In a choice between Corbyn and Smith I felt Smith better represented my views on the importance of remaining in the single market.
If there is another leadership contest, I will again cast my vote for the candidate I prefer.
I have never made it my mission to "get rid of" Corbyn, because it is not in my power to do so.
Of course, it may not be me that you're accusing of these things, but then that's rather the point I and tinyclanger2 are trying to make - we don't know whether we are "some people" or not, whether the hostility in your posts are aimed at us or not.
If your argument is against the making of sweeping assumptions about (presumed) Corbyn supporters, I fail to see how you improve the situation by adding to it with the same sweeping assumptions about (presumed) non-Corbyn supporters.
I didn't see the post you quoted from, as I use the ignore button, so haven't seen the full context.Willow904 wrote:@howsillyofme1
I really do feel I should point out that no one on this forum "came up with" Owen Smith. Labour MPs "came up with" Owen Smith.As to coming up with a name for a replacement for Corbyn......I wasn't referring to you specifically, more that there are some people on here who have made it their mission to get rid of him...but the best they came up with was Owen Smith!
In a choice between Corbyn and Smith I felt Smith better represented my views on the importance of remaining in the single market.
If there is another leadership contest, I will again cast my vote for the candidate I prefer.
I have never made it my mission to "get rid of" Corbyn, because it is not in my power to do so.
Of course, it may not be me that you're accusing of these things, but then that's rather the point I and tinyclanger2 are trying to make - we don't know whether we are "some people" or not, whether the hostility in your posts are aimed at us or not.
If your argument is against the making of sweeping assumptions about (presumed) Corbyn supporters, I fail to see how you improve the situation by adding to it with the same sweeping assumptions about (presumed) non-Corbyn supporters.
I posted that earlier HA. Let's hope it is scaled back, preferably scaled out of existence completely.HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... caled-back
Housing benefit cuts for young people may be scaled back
Cameron-era policy under review after warnings of severe hardship if changes come into force in April
Willow904 wrote:Again, I don't know who you are talking about. I don't know specifically why you or others left. I must have missed that memo.howsillyofme1 wrote:I think it is symptomatic of the state of things here when you have one of the more unpleasant posters on here, who has been cited by quite a few as one of the reasons they left to post something suggesting people who happen to disagree are 'stalkers'
No wonder this board has gone downhill and lost so many contributors when this sort of nonsense is allowed to stand without comment
I don't come back to 'stir up hatred' or 'stalk' I just come back to counter some of the stuff that is posted and point out the poor arguments
It is no point discussing politics any more on here - I was burnt last time I did that on here by having the gall to think that Corbyn was pretty much right in his approach to A50.
I also think that there are quite a few good contributors on here still, who have interesting things to say or link about politics.
We are entitled to different opinions. Your opinion that Corbyn was right in his approach to article 50 is no more valid than my opinion that he did not. If you don't want to hear other opinions, that's up to you, but it doesn't mean other people are wrong in having them.
I miss PaulfromYorkshire because he made good arguments in support of his opinion that helped me see things from another point of view whilst never suggesting I was wrong in holding an alternative opinion. His contributions were always constructive. Your contributions today have been less so than previously.
It was your choice to stop posting here and as I said I'm not really au fait with your reasons for that, all I will say is if you don't put your point of view anymore, you can't expect those still here to consider or debate it as we will naturally focus on what particularly interests us.
Yet the £30 a week cut to ESA is still due to start in April, I believe, so not much "compassionate Tory" there. I wonder if there are legal issues with the housing benefit cut. I imagine any laws regarding local council responsibility for housing homeless people would come into direct conflict with such a policy, for instance.yahyah wrote:I posted that earlier HA. Let's hope it is scaled back, preferably scaled out of existence completely.HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... caled-back
Housing benefit cuts for young people may be scaled back
Cameron-era policy under review after warnings of severe hardship if changes come into force in April
But Theresa May will be happy to play on the 'I'm not Cameron, I really am a compassionate caring type of Tory' and hoover up a few more votes while she's at it.
