Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:01 pm

And Andrew Neil's.Dad's older and better looking.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:03 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39088847
Disability benefit changes criticised

FWIW have made a complaint to Beeb on distorted and factually incorrect basis.

Penny Mordaunt:

But she added: "Now, over two thirds of PIP claimants with mental health conditions get the higher Daily Living award, worth £82.30 per week, compared to 22% under DLA."

Forgetting to give numbers, and in the process forgetting to mention the many changes that have led to people with mental health and cognitive conditions losing out, and how many found themselves with no support or the lowest possible Award. It is a favourite of Tory mendacity to do this. 160, 000 stand to lose on this measure alone, without all those chucked out of the support group and into the WRAG and thence to JSA and sanctions. And 800 a week losing disability vehicles, these are lives not statistics. It is this mendacity that needs to be called out and in fairness I do see the leadership engaging with this, but so toxic is the mood out among the public, that as with the NHS people are not in the mood to accept these realities. They prefer and are more comfortable with the notion that Tory thinking is superior to Labour on the economy, and that they are feeling hardship because of useless feral scrounging disabled eaters. They never wonder what comes next.

When the work and health thing, and UC start to bite then things might change. And when they start to realise exactly what UC is really about. So far it has been sold as being about the feckless non workers, lots believe this, but looking at what is happening in Australia is a salutary lesson. Looking further in time and place to the experience of New Zealand provides clues too.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:06 pm

Thanks AK

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:14 pm

Some people obviously gained by PIP,but that tells you little.DLA was ever adapting and any shortfall quite easilly changeable.The 675 million spend could be far more usefully applied.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:16 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:But if I took on a comms strategist who said "we can't get our stories in the press because they don't like us" I would tell them to work out a way to get our stories out - including in the press - regardless.

It is not a matter of 'don't like' it is a matter of 'won't cover' or if they actually do give airtime or column inches, 'only cover with huge bias'.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:24 pm

Sorry you won't be posting so often AK. Love your roundups and know you put a lot of effort in.
i hope you change your mind......

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:27 pm

Originally working age DLA to PIP was going to be the first step to all DLA.I didn't hear more on that since beginnings.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:28 pm

Words of Wisdom from Thatcher's Orphan August 12 2016

We are all roughly on the same side, in that we have a lot of common ground. Let's not forget that.
Disagreements are inevitable. Personal insults/attacks aren't.
Argue the point, not the poster.
The lines of division are fluid. After the leadership election is over, it's likely they'll change again.
Many people value this site because there's a mix of left-wing opinion, that does, mostly, stay respectful.
We need to read what others think, even if we disagree, otherwise we're only seeing an echo chamber instead of reality
Sometimes it's sensible just to agree to disagree, as neither 'side' is likely to change their opinion and to continue trying is about as productive as repeatedly banging your head on a wall.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:30 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:But if I took on a comms strategist who said "we can't get our stories in the press because they don't like us" I would tell them to work out a way to get our stories out - including in the press - regardless.
It is not a matter of 'don't like' it is a matter of 'won't cover' or if they actually do give airtime or column inches, 'only cover with huge bias'.

Yes. so how do we get in there.
My starting point in this thinking is that accepting defeat isn't an option so how do we make it happen?
Creativity.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:33 pm

For example. From the much missed Ohso 13 August 2016

Nine academics have written to the BBC requesting a meeting about the 'significant groundswell of concerns' over it's coverage of Corbyn.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 75601bd169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 10:47 pm

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-02-25/majo ... -chairman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Major Ukip donor Arron Banks threatens to pull funding if he is not made chairman

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:06 pm

FTN Sat 20 and Sun 21 August.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1014&start=150" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More flies (lord of) than fly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:33 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Abstract
Andrew Cooper, a former Downing Street strategist and adviser to David Cameron, assesses and analyses the key factors behind the Conservatives’ victory. He reflects on how the Party developed its strategic messaging and, guided by Lynton Crosby, focused on the economy. This case was strengthened by the failure of the Labour opposition to formulate and promote a coherent response. Ed Milband was seen as a very weak opponent because many did not view him as a credible leader. Cooper also reflects on the Conservatives’ highly effective use of resources to engage with the micro-targeting of voters through use of social media platforms, notably Facebook, to build relationships with sections of the electorate.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 ... -40934-4_9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tories are using techniques ingratiating themselves, convincing real, regular people they're authentic. People then act and vote against their interests, thinking them are genuine. Tories are conning people, using enticing marketing approaches. It's psychological manipulation.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:37 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:As if by magic (from 2015)

Strategic communications in Labour’s election campaign was almost non-existent to the naked eye and is one of the prime reasons the party suffered such a bruising defeat just over a month ago.
http://labourlist.org/2015/06/labour-mu ... ons-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A line out of Ragged Trousered Philanthropists, something like, "I thought if I told the truth, people would understand and it'd be enough -they'd blame the people really causing problems, the capitalists, the ones stealing their labour."

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:44 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
gilsey wrote:@seeingclearly. I think that was the point, you or I wouldn't see such posts because they're not targeting us. It really was creepy, and I'd love to think it was rubbish.
So they bought into targeted consumer profiling? Well, that would make sense given other examples of targetting, remember in 2015 the targeted letters in marginals seats.... and bringing in campaigners from the US to campaign in tageted areas. There is a pattern there. But hugely expensive stuff, so where is the data on Tory (illegal?) over expenditure and any repercussions they ought to be facing?

Good question.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:46 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:But if I took on a comms strategist who said "we can't get our stories in the press because they don't like us" I would tell them to work out a way to get our stories out - including in the press - regardless.
It is not a matter of 'don't like' it is a matter of 'won't cover' or if they actually do give airtime or column inches, 'only cover with huge bias'.
Yes. so how do we get in there.
My starting point in this thinking is that accepting defeat isn't an option so how do we make it happen?
Creativity.

Creativity already being used, and has been for quite a while, but bizarrely very little mainstream humour or protest music, unlike the eighties. Little to fire people up, or remind them in case they forget. Ken Loach a good example, of course. But the rest mainly online, and seen as somehow less credible and also more propagandized by many. Even when speaking truth. Lampooning, even at its best seems mainly to reach the converted. True or not the pigfucker story did as much to discredit Cameron as anything, and of course his disappearing act sealed his fate. Not exactly creative perhaps in the way you meant. My standout memorable actions have both been by disabled people. First the Hardest Hit rally a bit before the election though in 2010? Positively biblical in the sheer scale of its diversity, and the opportunity for people to directly lobby parliament. Nothing that scale since. The other the laying of flowers for the people who died in the weeks following being found fit for work. Something still being disputed. But really neither became genuinely rooted in public memory to any great degree. Eds bacon sandwich probably has that honour. Sorry, but perhaps even Cathy ComesHome would not really resonate now, people were different then.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:50 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
" When things are digital you can be more empirical and control the timing. The world of advertising agencies and PR companies were sure we had screwed up because they did not see what we were doing.” Dominic Cummings
That I do find creepy. It means that whoever uses the most potent digital technology has the edge and that results will be in future hostage to how clever the digital solution is and who is the highest bidder. Out of sight of the electorate. Whatever happened to such notions as transparency?
This takes us into the domain of do we want to be "right" or do we want to win. Or exactly where are we on what spectra (I use the term "we" loosely here). The right have fewer scruples and will band together to win. The left (as we have so frequently demonstrated here) fragment on the basis of relatively small differences they see as matters of principle. We need to be prepared to fight pragmatically to win, but without moving into questionable ground.

(cJA bold)
Yes, exactly.
From gilsey, on page one today's thread:

...if you oppose the government you vote for the opposition, that's all there is to it...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Feb, 2017 11:59 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Yes. Holding them to account (rather than appearing to simply vote things through) would be a start.

Yes. Create scenes, drama, find what works, what holds peoples' attention positively for the opposition, this is making impressions that matter. It's not strictly rational. If rational always worked, if people acted rationally, people wouldn't vote for Trump or Tories. It's not a lie and it's not unscrupulous, making those effective scenes, it's effective tactically.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:00 am

May 2011-London(Miller hid in office)

October 22nd 2011 remember the date,I attended the Nottingham one and my head was on the telly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:08 am

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:12 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -austerity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don’t dread old age. I’m 94, and I won’t spend my last years in fear of the Tories
Harry Leslie Smith

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:25 am

@frightful_oik,break now 'til Monday.Seemed appropriate listening.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:31 am

Harry Leslie Smith has something real to say. Thanks for that post. I specially liked his cross generational bits and those about love. And sentience. My best wishes to him.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:40 am

Yes, she did, HindleA. That was also the day that I was alerted by my own MP who I lobbied for the 120,000 UK people who share my condition, that the H&SC bill was one to watch, Imhad been very much focused on Welfare till then, was told they went hand in hand and they would be devastating. Proven to be true, with all amendments and other monstrosities that emanated from them.And indeed are yet to come. Out by 2 years, but things must have felt more normal then, because in fact my memories of that time have a different flavour to now. In short, we did not know what we were up against.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 8:09 am

Just the two UKIPs on Marr this morning. Well done BBC.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 8:23 am

Morning all.

Prezza on Jezza and Labour. Hard to disagree with any of what he says.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/a ... st-9916059" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 9:38 am

Gilligan's on his hobby (Trojan) horse again...but this one is far from clear cut. I can't see all of the article (paywall) so don't know whether Gilligan ignored the fact that the school in question didn't open.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/secon ... -t6n50v88l

A second head teacher in Oldham has claimed that what he called a “Trojan Horse playbook” was used to drive him from his post at a high-profile free school project in the town.

Rick Hodge told The Sunday Times he resigned from the headship of the Phoenix Free School in 2013 after a “campaign of harassment to browbeat me” from the school’s founder, Affan Burki, a former British Army officer.

Burki and a colleague denied the allegations last night and branded Hodge a “Walter Mitty” character.

The Phoenix scheme received wide publicity in the national media — and backing from figures including the free schools campaigner Toby Young — after announcing it would recruit its teachers entirely from former military personnel.

Funding was withdraw in 2014.

Oldham's Phoenix free school loses government backing

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -education

The Phoenix School was to have been staffed by armed forces veterans, with a head of studies who has led science departments at three private schools and previously served as a Tornado pilot.

The director of the Phoenix Free School, Tom Burkard, had said the school was oversubscribed by 85%.

A statement on the school's website said: "We regret to confirm that the Department for Education has withdrawn funding for Phoenix Free School of Oldham and it will not open this September.

Tubby will remember the school's website which was laughably bad - all of the "PC gone mad" nonsense was there. This story looks like a bandwagon-jumper to me.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:14 am

Latest Keegan

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... art-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit is a Whitehall farce that threatens the heart of Europe

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:24 am

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... regulation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scott Pruitt vows to slash climate and water pollution regulations at CPAC

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:38 am

Past Keegan

[youtube]BmHbWtS_KRI[/youtube]

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:38 am

THERESA MAY’S MISTAKEN PRECEDENT FOR A BREXIT BASED ON CHERRY-PICKING
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A quick look at the mechanics of the Government’s sector-by-sector approach seems to vindicate Sir Ivan’s judgement. How could the aerospace or financial services industry still be in the single market yet not bound by the ECJ’s judgements that govern the sector? If the EU insists on free movement as a condition of single market access, why would they offer exemptions to a raft of the UK’s most important industries? Every EU leader’s utterance on the subject has stressed the indispensability of the integrity of the single market. To have a strategy based on not believing a core principle of what binds the member states of the EU together is somewhere between grossly naïve and delusional.

My bold. It's quite short, worth reading the whole thing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 10:56 am

Australia

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... crossbench" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labor and Greens' bid to protect penalty rates opposed by crossbench

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:09 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Number of EU care workers in UK surges
MPs call for key workers to have right to stay, as figures show number of European staff has risen by 40% in three years

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:16 am

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/2017/februa ... mgdoctors=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DH ramps up raid on NHS budget

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:25 am

HindleA wrote:Latest Keegan

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... art-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit is a Whitehall farce that threatens the heart of Europe

One of the many depressing aspects of the referendum has been the way some of the more extreme Brexiters have been exulting in interpreting it as the first step on the road to the break-up of the European Union. What is it about these people? Don’t they realise that the postwar arrangement that evolved into the EU was set up principally so that we should not yet again see Europe tearing itself apart?

Quite

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:33 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... mp-trudeau" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Canada PM Trudeau pressured to tackle influx of asylum seekers over US border

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:42 am

Douglas Murray is basically a polite Milo Y. Goebbels as opposed to Streicher

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:47 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw

Number of EU care workers in UK surges
MPs call for key workers to have right to stay, as figures show number of European staff has risen by 40% in three years

Kick them out. Then they'll have to hire English care workers and pay them £100 an hour.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:49 am

(Gina) Miller told the Independent: “I think it’s absurd this idea that the Lords should just get on with it and not have a proper debate. After we fought so hard to put the Commons back at the centre of the debate, all the Commons did was rubber stamp the bill, which was cowardice.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-bill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:50 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk/news/2017/februa ... mgdoctors=

DH ramps up raid on NHS budget

Lack of investment in infrastructure under the Tories is a common theme and part of what did for them last time and yet here they go again. Unbelievable people keep voting for this incompetence.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 11:53 am

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... food-waste" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Niftie’s founder Nathan Richards, who began the store from his front room last summer, says he is operating as a nonprofit social enterprise. A gifted market trader who began the shop as a way to get back into employment after struggling with depression, he is in a hectic whirl, chatting to customers, checking on a delivery of unwanted drinks and trying to pack up boxes for online orders. “The government is letting the working class fend for themselves,” he says. “We are stepping up and it shows British spirit. This business has had an effect on my town. More people are fundraising and are aware of others.”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:08 pm

Tenuous Mary Whitehouse link,just found it interesting

Tony Garnett/Mary Whitehouse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07pgvjq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:14 pm

Foreign-Language Oscar Nominees Make Joint Political Statement
Many expect a political Oscar Sunday. Well, on Friday all five Foreign Language Oscar nominees released a unified protest statement.

On behalf of all nominees, we would like to express our unanimous and emphatic disapproval of the climate of fanaticism and nationalism we see today in the U.S. and in so many other countries, in parts of the population and, most unfortunately of all, among leading politicians.

The fear generated by dividing us into genders, colors, religions and sexualities as a means to justify violence destroys the things that we depend on – not only as artists but as humans: the diversity of cultures, the chance to be enriched by something seemingly “foreign” and the belief that human encounters can change us for the better. These divisive walls prevent people from experiencing something simple but fundamental: from discovering that we are all not so different.

So we’ve asked ourselves: What can cinema do? Although we don`t want to overestimate the power of movies, we do believe that no other medium can offer such deep insight into other people’s circumstances and transform feelings of unfamiliarity into curiosity, empathy and compassion – even for those we have been told are our enemies.

Regardless of who wins the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film on Sunday, we refuse to think in terms of borders. We believe there is no best country, best gender, best religion or best color. We want this award to stand as a symbol of the unity between nations and the freedom of the arts.

Human rights are not something you have to apply for. They simply exist – for everybody. For this reason, we dedicate this award to all the people, artists, journalists and activists who are working to foster unity and understanding, and who uphold freedom of expression and human dignity – values whose protection is now more important than ever. By dedicating the Oscar to them, we wish to express to them our deep respect and solidarity.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:25 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... food-waste" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Niftie’s founder Nathan Richards, who began the store from his front room last summer, says he is operating as a nonprofit social enterprise. A gifted market trader who began the shop as a way to get back into employment after struggling with depression, he is in a hectic whirl, chatting to customers, checking on a delivery of unwanted drinks and trying to pack up boxes for online orders. “The government is letting the working class fend for themselves,” he says. “We are stepping up and it shows British spirit. This business has had an effect on my town. More people are fundraising and are aware of others.”

Cottles Minimarket was the shop round my way who sold the out of date crisps etc. None of this is new. No frills discount supermarkets were commonplace in the 80s and 90s and items past their best before date were all sold to customers one way or another, along with broken biscuits etc. We used to be a poor country under Thatcher. North Sea Oil should have changed that, but she made sure most of us never saw any of that wealth. Membership of the EU boosted our economy and contrary to popular mythology I think a lot people did see something of that, although yellow label meat and marked down bread at the supermarket never quite disappeared. Anyway, Brexit will bring back a lot more of these things for all of us. We don't have an especially high GDP per capita to start with and it will fall with Brexit. If the Tories continue their post financial crash pattern of cushioning those on above average incomes (while taking a tiny bit more from the very wealthy to camouflage their MO) the vast majority of us will see a significant fall in our standard of living and this time we will be starting from a lower base than after 2008. The idea we need to go through this because of "democracy" and that Labour will somehow be able to recover our fortunes (doubtful) when they are duly elected in 10- 15 years time when people finally wake up, is a seriously depressing prospect for me. I'd much rather we can find a way to convince voters to support remaining in the single market so we don't have to ever live through the worst of Brexit. It may be optimistic, but one thing I am certain of is that it won't happen unless people who believe in it try to make it happen.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:26 pm

Devoid of interesting content or argument.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:27 pm

HindleA wrote:Devoid of interesting content or argument.

My comment?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:40 pm

Sorry,bad timing.It was a jest,stress jest at howsilly's view of forum.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 12:47 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... food-waste" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Niftie’s founder Nathan Richards, who began the store from his front room last summer, says he is operating as a nonprofit social enterprise. A gifted market trader who began the shop as a way to get back into employment after struggling with depression, he is in a hectic whirl, chatting to customers, checking on a delivery of unwanted drinks and trying to pack up boxes for online orders. “The government is letting the working class fend for themselves,” he says. “We are stepping up and it shows British spirit. This business has had an effect on my town. More people are fundraising and are aware of others.”

Not sure how wide spread they are outside 'the North', but sounds similar to "Jack Fulton's", which specialises in buying up excess stocks & items near sell by dates, it's generally cheap but often excels with obscure delicatessen produce at silly prices. It's kept tinybgoats fed for years (& they're fussier eaters than you might suppose)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 1:15 pm

HindleA wrote:Sorry,bad timing.It was a jest,stress jest at howsilly's view of forum.

Or a cutting observation of how I can make any topic circle back to Brexit?

In all seriousness, I wish those who are comfortable with Labour's Brexit stance talked about it more so I can see how they believe everything will work out to the best possible outcome. How is a consensus for "soft Brexit" as opposed to "hard Brexit" to be achieved, if not by defending the benefits of the single market. Or do those who agree with Corbyn see a benefit in leaving the single market and if so, what are those benefits?

Tinyclanger2 and seeingcleary's conversation yesterday about comms strategy was very interesting but if Labour were to find a way to crack that, what would they communicate? For those willing to listen, who actively seek out articles on Labourlist, what's the message? Brexit is an inconvenient topic for Labour, but they need to communicate a basic message on it, if they want to get past it and talk about everything else.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Feb, 2017 1:34 pm

Good morfternoon.

Bar's ban on men chatting up women: is it feminism gone too far, or Don Draper redux?

"The Pub With No Leer"?

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... aper-redux

Edited - typo