Monday 27th February 2017

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 12:47 pm

gilsey wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: I can't see how Hammond can. In words maybe, but not practice. Osborne has stitched him up, delaying a few years ago.
They are so secure they can basically stick what they want on the national debt.
You're dead right, but it's clear that they won't and don't want to. They're going to go on using the level of debt as a reason to send us all to the poorhouse.

Yeah, I think there's a longer term line of attack here, certainly.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:15 pm

As a person who would rather attend to opposing the cunts with particular regard to social security/housing-of note the two best Shadows are there and a hat tip to Keeley,rather than continual internal,and by obvious consequence diversionary -not least in wasting energy more fruitfully used IMHO,regardless of what I think of the boss.I think he is crap ,he's there.I fully understand,I am not sticking with Corbyn,I am prioritising,as more than many think are.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:34 pm

I was assuming the plan to blame Blair was going to be the sort of thing they could pull back from if it wasn't coming out right.

Turns out the Shadow Chancellor had committed an article to print, which would come out 3 days after and even derail good news if the seat had been held.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:36 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:The soft coup is underway!

http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/h ... -under-way" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brilliantly funny. Made my day. Almost as good as that laughable piece by Ellie Mae last night.

Problem is, it's true isn't it, that's why moderate sources were all bleating about Red Velvet in private last week... Although she is as elusive as Kaiser Sose, this week after plan A failed - again.

Did you honestly think toppling Corbyn would be the end of it?

All of labour had the choice to get behind their democratically elected leader, twice, but at no point in the last tw years has the right of the party helped or even tried to help, they have indulged themselves in destroying their own party rather than fighting the tories. A 'Stab in the back' never ends well. Corbyn is going to stand until the election or a rule change to allow the left to stand a real candidate in leadership elections.

2015 happened and it was a fucking disaster, a cataclysm in electoral terms, Labour had one chance after that, unify under whoever was elected leader or implode like the liberals. Petulant self indulgence from the bitterites and their supporters.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:36 pm

https://speye.wordpress.com/2017/02/27/ ... it-capped/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not expected to work yet still benefit-capped

Of course like the bedroom tax and particulary the forthcoming abolition of SMI,far from an unintended consequence,overwhelmingly targeted at.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:41 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:I'm guessing the Labour speeches and meetings on the Business rates changes will be overshadowed by John McDonnell questions.
I reckon Hammond will neutralise anyway. But there's a missed chance of political capital.
I can't see how Hammond can. In words maybe, but not practice. Osborne has stitched him up, delaying a few years ago.

(cJA edit/bold)

It's a galling thing the public in general don't know to blame needless austerity inflicted the last five-six years on failed Tory former-Chancellor Osborne, the architect of madness.

The propaganda purchased by this Tory pack is effective and it's sickening to me. People aren't stupid. They're working and don't follow politics. It's not enough to tell the truth, it's got to resonate within people. 35-40 million UK people need to know who'll best represent their interests - Tory/UKIP aren't it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I reckon Hammond will neutralise anyway. But there's a missed chance of political capital.
I can't see how Hammond can. In words maybe, but not practice. Osborne has stitched him up, delaying a few years ago.
(cJA edit/bold)

It's a galling thing the public in general don't know to blame needless austerity inflicted the last five-six years on failed Tory former-Chancellor Osborne, the architect of madness.

The propaganda purchased by this Tory pack is effective and it's sickening to me. People aren't stupid. They're working and don't follow politics. It's not enough to tell the truth, it's got to resonate within people. 35-40 million UK people need to know who'll best represent their interests - Tory/UKIP aren't it.

BBC news snippets and newspaper headlines both directly or indirectly via friends and family. If you can crack that nut...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 1:58 pm

HindleA wrote:As a person who would rather attend to opposing the cunts with particular regard to social security/housing-of note the two best Shadows are there and a hat tip to Keeley,rather than continual internal,and by obvious consequence diversionary -not least in wasting energy more fruitfully used IMHO,regardless of what I think of the boss.I think he is crap ,he's there.I fully understand,I am not sticking with Corbyn,I am prioritising,as more than many think are.

Exactly
Labour is more than its leader
Yes, yes, I know full well an ineffective leader isn't good for the team but Labour is bigger than that
Labour peoples prioritising their work
Get through it, come out the other side

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:01 pm

http://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/art ... enefit-cap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

High Court Challenge referred to(Benefit Cap)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:31 pm

Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:The soft coup is underway!

http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/h ... -under-way" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brilliantly funny. Made my day. Almost as good as that laughable piece by Ellie Mae last night.
Problem is, it's true isn't it, that's why moderate sources were all bleating about Red Velvet in private last week... Although she is as elusive as Kaiser Sose, this week after plan A failed - again.

Did you honestly think toppling Corbyn would be the end of it?

All of labour had the choice to get behind their democratically elected leader, twice, but at no point in the last tw years has the right of the party helped or even tried to help, they have indulged themselves in destroying their own party rather than fighting the tories. A 'Stab in the back' never ends well. Corbyn is going to stand until the election or a rule change to allow the left to stand a real candidate in leadership elections.

2015 happened and it was a fucking disaster, a cataclysm in electoral terms, Labour had one chance after that, unify under whoever was elected leader or implode like the liberals. Petulant self indulgence from the bitterites and their supporters.

My reason for not supporting Corbyn is not because of disloyalty.

I don't support him because I think it is immoral to do so. For reasons I've given (IRA, StoptheWar, Putin etc).

I am sure many other "Bitterites" feel the same, and so we left.

But we Greens fortunately don't have such worries, eh?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:33 pm

In the last two quarters of 2016, more than 12,800 EU citizens had their permanent residency requests refused with a further 5,500 declared invalid, a rejection rate of around 28%, analysis by the Liberal Democrats found. To qualify, EU nationals need five years of continued residence in the UK.

Last week, the quarterly migration statistics from the Office for National Statistics showed there had been a doubling of the number of EU nationals in Britain who had their applications processed for UK residence documents to secure their individual status.

- Rejection of EU citizens seeking UK residency hits 28%

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -residency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:37 pm

Labour is a political party not a religion
I don't need to like the current Labour party leader to continue supporting and voting for Labour

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:43 pm

I think it's true Corbyn supports Brexit, a united Ireland and free rein for Putin. I think his inner circle do. They aren't telling. But they whisper it to pals at Stop the War and the Morning Star and whatever SWP front is in town.

You might call it a plot. But oh no, that would be paranoid and unfair. They're just social democrats leading a mass movement with mainstream views on economics etc. Look at those crowds, eh?

Post by **adam** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:43 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:I don't support him because I think it is immoral to do so. For reasons I've given (IRA, StoptheWar, Putin etc).

I don't know your personal history and I apologise if I offend if you have more direct personal reasons here, but if the DUP can sit down and work with Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams then I'm not sure if 'the IRA' as a reason not to support a Corbyn led labour party isn't just a bit too last century.

Post by **adam** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:46 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think it's true Corbyn supports Brexit ...

I know it's true that during the referendum campaign he consistently spoke to Labour supporters telling them it was crucial that Remain won.

I think his lead on policy on Article 50 has been worse than hopeless, and you're not actually saying this here, I know, but you're swerving towards 'the referendum result was Corbyn's fault' territory here and despite being useless about it now I think that's a rewriting of history for then.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:49 pm

This is England 2017:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2956499/m ... to-the-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:49 pm

adam wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:I don't support him because I think it is immoral to do so. For reasons I've given (IRA, StoptheWar, Putin etc).
I don't know your personal history and I apologise if I offend if you have more direct personal reasons here, but if the DUP can sit down and work with Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams then I'm not sure if 'the IRA' as a reason not to support a Corbyn led labour party isn't just a bit too last century.

There is a world of difference between making peace in the north of Ireland by sharing power with those who actively backed the IRA, and voting for those who actively backed the IRA.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:51 pm

citizenJA wrote:Labour is a political party not a religion
I don't need to like the current Labour party leader to continue supporting and voting for Labour

'Labour is a crusade or it is nothing.'

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:56 pm

HS2 no corruption whatsoever.... https://www.ft.com/content/cfeff65c-f69 ... 969e0d3b65" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 2:58 pm

adam wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think it's true Corbyn supports Brexit ...
I know it's true that during the referendum campaign he consistently spoke to Labour supporters telling them it was crucial that Remain won.

I think his lead on policy on Article 50 has been worse than hopeless, and you're not actually saying this here, I know, but you're swerving towards 'the referendum result was Corbyn's fault' territory here and despite being useless about it now I think that's a rewriting of history for then.

I was satirising plotting there.

I think he's confused.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:01 pm

I won't get represented fairly by Tories returned to government. The risk of more Tory government is terrifying to me so I support and will vote Labour. Everyone able to vote should do so. Not voting hands electoral victory to whomever the majority voted for.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:01 pm

Temulkar wrote:HS2 no corruption whatsoever.... https://www.ft.com/content/cfeff65c-f69 ... 969e0d3b65" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So what?

I could say "green energy, corruption" on the basis of Northern Ireland''s farce.

HS2 is strongly supported by most rail experts. You could read up on it instead of citing the Institute of Economic Affairs like you did before.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:07 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
adam wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:I don't support him because I think it is immoral to do so. For reasons I've given (IRA, StoptheWar, Putin etc).
I don't know your personal history and I apologise if I offend if you have more direct personal reasons here, but if the DUP can sit down and work with Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams then I'm not sure if 'the IRA' as a reason not to support a Corbyn led labour party isn't just a bit too last century.

There is a world of difference between making peace in the north of Ireland by sharing power with those who actively backed the IRA, and voting for those who actively backed the IRA.

It's also the stupid naivety that talking to terrorists (necessary) is giving one side a photo op. Compare this with the efforts Whitelaw (who earned some respect from Republicans). Meet in secret, nobody leaks or else this is over, I haven't got much leeway but I can do x".

It didn't work but better than ceding part of the UK and bringing on a civil war.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:12 pm

There's a world of difference between fabrications of straw and human beings.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:14 pm

Don't tell my scarecrows that,they get sensitive.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:17 pm

Horace and Hilda,resting in the garden shed before their work commences,if anybody is not interested.Bloody Scarecrow Union,they are refusing to come out until agreement on carrot allocation and safety concerns is reached.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:18 pm

If you get pissed off with the world,make your own to escape to.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:16 pm

I do like this joshing about the IRA. The forum at its best.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:16 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/h ... ou-9925399" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are some conditions that don't make you "really disabled" according to Theresa May's policy chief

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:23 pm

http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2017/02/lo ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lords begin voting on the Brexit Bill: our view

(TOUCHSTONE)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:25 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:36 pm

Any sign of McCluskey yet? Or is he still working round the clock on jobs and pensions?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:37 pm

I sincerely regret being such an arse even the Bow Group thinks I was offensive.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:42 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1577835 ... ndtable-to" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
Labour hold emergency business roundtable to discuss business rates “ticking time bomb

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:47 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 18#history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guidance
Dedicated schools grant (DSG): 2017 to 2018

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:48 pm

Crapita

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... irm-capita" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BBC orders investigation into claims of aggressive TV licence enforcement

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:12 pm

ScarletGas wrote:Bore Da,

I have been a bit of a masochist today and watched BBC News.

Seems the major news is someone opening the wrong envelope somewhere in the USA.That and the England rugby teams inability to deal with the Italian tactics.

Nothing else happening. No Grandmothers being deported,£ not under pressure again, no more NHS issues, no potential cut off date for new migrants.

Someone at the BBC needs to get a grip.

The Clennell deportation was featured on our local BBC News, North East. Some background on the regulations here, guidance specifically refers to being out of the country to care for relatives.

the reason for the delay beyond the 2 years – was it through their own wish or no fault of their own (for example, having to care for a sick or elderly relative)?

The case of Irene Clennell and the rules on returning residents with ILR
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/case-ir ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:21 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-spending" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Donald Trump's first budget: enormous defense spending as most agencies cut
White House budget officials say Trump will uphold campaign promise to build up the military, and that most domestic agencies will face cuts

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:22 pm

Peter Hain (and others) put down a mild amendment in the Lords asking for the Government to give an undertaking it'll seek Single Market membership. Not exactly being unhelpful to the leadership, is it?

Labour whipping against it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:23 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tor ... 02231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the change to disability benefits that the Government snuck in while the by-elections distracted us

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:26 pm

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/201 ... ments.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bill documents — European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill 2016-17

Scroll down for amendment papers

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:40 pm

So May tells us Trump is fully committed to the WTO, and his team then say he's going to dodge it as much as he can?

She should be a laughing stock.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 5:41 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-spending

Donald Trump's first budget: enormous defense spending as most agencies cut
White House budget officials say Trump will uphold campaign promise to build up the military, and that most domestic agencies will face cuts

Subtle

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 6:21 pm

That's May's trade partner, that is.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 6:26 pm

What in,kitten heels?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 6:30 pm

Melania/Phiip swap

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 6:38 pm

John Major's got stuck in nicely. "Cheap rhetoric" etc.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 6:59 pm

HindleA wrote:Don't tell my scarecrows that,they get sensitive.

Our scarecrow friends and human beings are made of the same star dust
Horace and Hilda understand their composition is different and glorious
Differences don't mean inferior regarding our friends made of straw or cotton or stone, for example

You're still giving them my love, aren't you? I regret public transportation difficulties prevent my being a better neighbour.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 7:09 pm

gilsey wrote:
ScarletGas wrote:Bore Da,

I have been a bit of a masochist today and watched BBC News.

Seems the major news is someone opening the wrong envelope somewhere in the USA.That and the England rugby teams inability to deal with the Italian tactics.

Nothing else happening. No Grandmothers being deported,£ not under pressure again, no more NHS issues, no potential cut off date for new migrants.

Someone at the BBC needs to get a grip.
The Clennell deportation was featured on our local BBC News, North East. Some background on the regulations here, guidance specifically refers to being out of the country to care for relatives.
the reason for the delay beyond the 2 years – was it through their own wish or no fault of their own (for example, having to care for a sick or elderly relative)?
The case of Irene Clennell and the rules on returning residents with ILR
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/case-ir ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Outrageous
I wonder how many more little-known, horse-shit, disingenuous and obscure provisos exist leaving people at the mercy of Tory Home Office tossing them out of the country

The immigration official was allowed to use their discretion in her case and let her back into the county. The rules allowed for it and her circumstances fit one scenario written up in the god damn guide. There was no absolute requirement for them to toss her out. Outrageous.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 7:31 pm

gilsey wrote:
ScarletGas wrote:Bore Da,

I have been a bit of a masochist today and watched BBC News.

Seems the major news is someone opening the wrong envelope somewhere in the USA.That and the England rugby teams inability to deal with the Italian tactics.

Nothing else happening. No Grandmothers being deported,£ not under pressure again, no more NHS issues, no potential cut off date for new migrants.

Someone at the BBC needs to get a grip.
The Clennell deportation was featured on our local BBC News, North East. Some background on the regulations here, guidance specifically refers to being out of the country to care for relatives.
the reason for the delay beyond the 2 years – was it through their own wish or no fault of their own (for example, having to care for a sick or elderly relative)?
The case of Irene Clennell and the rules on returning residents with ILR
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/case-ir ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for this Gilsey.

This is one of the many ways the media in general get away with slanted news management.

Complain,particularly to the BBC (which I admit I gave up as a bad job some time ago) about the lack of coverage of a story and you get back the Oh! but it was covered in the regional news or on its website (probably for five minutes or in some deep dark corner of its internet offer) Of course this does not just apply to the BBC but to our news output in general.

This applies to both sides of the coin.

The above applies to news that does not suit the chosen narrative of the publication or news organisation. How long did the Surrey council tax issue remain in the public eye? How long will the disgraceful comments of George Freeman be discussed?

When the opposite applies then they find a way of making it stay in the headlines as long as they can.The latest by election results stayed in the news output for the best part of three days. Does anybody really think (although thinking about it I am sure one or two will disagree) that if it had been anyone else having issues than Labour it would have remained so prominent. How long was the ludicrous Ed Miliband bacon sandwich front page news?

Without going into the machinations of the current Labour offer or its leadership unless and until the party can find a way of overcoming a brutally biased press and/or a woefully inadequate national broadcaster then the uphill struggle just gets steeper.