Saturday 4th and Sunday 5th March 2017

Post by **adam** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 8:20 am

Morning all

A little surprising and disappointing that over 5 hours after the last result was called in NI the Guardian are still showing the position as it was at around 10pm last night

Final result

DUP 29
SF 28
SDLP12
UUP 10
APNI 8
Green 2
True Unionist Voice 1
People Before Profit Alliance 1
Independent 1

The DUP beat SF by fewer than 1200 first preference votes (for what that's worth in a proper multi-member STV election).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 9:50 am

Good morfternoon.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 10:21 am

I wonder how much we'll see of the NHS march today on BBC news. Something between little and nothing I expect.
http://healthcampaignstogether.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 10:27 am

http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/ban ... USRTS11C6I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Banksy's hotel.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 10:58 am

adam wrote:Morning all

A little surprising and disappointing that over 5 hours after the last result was called in NI the Guardian are still showing the position as it was at around 10pm last night

Final result

DUP 29
SF 28
SDLP12
UUP 10
APNI 8
Green 2
True Unionist Voice 1
People Before Profit Alliance 1
Independent 1

The DUP beat SF by fewer than 1200 first preference votes (for what that's worth in a proper multi-member STV election).

Does this result suggest a united Ireland is inching ever closer? There were a lot of articles after the referendum suggesting the Brexit vote may change the balance in favour of a unified Ireland:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 17166.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How Brexit has suddenly made the prospect of a united Ireland thinkable

If there was a large consensus, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but what chance is there of a consensus big enough to make a peaceful transition possible?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:06 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rest-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Britain’s economy is cooling fast, according to the latest surveys of the services, manufacturing and construction sectors, bolstering expectations that the Bank of England will leave interest rates at their record low for the rest of this year and beyond.

Post by **adam** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:08 am

Willow904 wrote:Does this result suggest a united Ireland is inching ever closer? There were a lot of articles after the referendum suggesting the Brexit vote may change the balance in favour of a unified Ireland:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 17166.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How Brexit has suddenly made the prospect of a united Ireland thinkable
If there was a large consensus, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but what chance is there of a consensus big enough to make a peaceful transition possible?

Although there's no knowing what damage leaving the EU will do to any number of things about NI, given the recent state of the DUP you wonder whether SF will ever have a better chance than this of topping the poll.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:13 am

gilsey wrote:I wonder how much we'll see of the NHS march today on BBC news. Something between little and nothing I expect.
http://healthcampaignstogether.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Searched their website, only mention so far was BBC Wiltshire:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04tp9qg

"Swindon campaigners head to London to join a national demonstration about the NHS."

So, not quite nothing, then.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New rules restricting MPs from intervening with officials directly to resolve benefit payment problems on behalf of constituents are a major barrier to justice, ministers have been warned.

Seems to relate specifically to universal credit. The shroud of secrecy around UC is quite worrying. It is obviously failing on its explicit aims, yet keeps quietly rumbling on as some kind beaurocratic nightmare designed to terrorise the needy and vulnerable. All behind closed doors. Cutting out MPs from any kind of insight into the impacts of the system seems quite ominous to me. UC should have collapsed by now on account of its rollout being way behind and the overspend being exhorbitant.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:32 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... find-cover

Couriers who deliver parcels for Marks & Spencer, River Island and John Lewis face being charged £150 a day if they cannot find cover when they are ill.
Drivers for the multinational company DPD, which also makes home deliveries for Amazon and Asos, told the Guardian the contractual threat meant they sometimes forced themselves to work when sick.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:42 am

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... find-cover
Couriers who deliver parcels for Marks & Spencer, River Island and John Lewis face being charged £150 a day if they cannot find cover when they are ill.
Drivers for the multinational company DPD, which also makes home deliveries for Amazon and Asos, told the Guardian the contractual threat meant they sometimes forced themselves to work when sick.

And there was me thinking simply not getting paid when off sick was a bad deal. I assume this is because they are engaged as self-employed contractors - only most self-employed people contract for quite short-term specific jobs, not long-term routine fulfilment of what most people would consider a regular employee position.

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:07 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:27 pm

Bonnylad wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-election

There was no additional information provided to substantiate the president’s claims that Obama had “wire tapped” Trump Tower, and it was not clear on what information Trump was basing the allegations.
More details soon...

If true, that means some poor sod would have had to listen to all the recordings. Maybe the world of espionage isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:55 pm

Morning all.

Dear oh dear, there's some wonderful frothing going on from the usual suspects about the NHS demo today. They really loathe idea of a publicly-funded, non-insurance-based health system

What baffles me is how they think that simply changing who funds it will suddenly make health outcomes so much better. Why would it?

They've also never explained how much money would be spent on administration of an insurance-based system. Maybe someone could do some research from countries that use such a thing and place it here for us to read?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:46 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
gilsey wrote:I wonder how much we'll see of the NHS march today on BBC news. Something between little and nothing I expect.
http://healthcampaignstogether.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Searched their website, only mention so far was BBC Wiltshire:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04tp9qg

"Swindon campaigners head to London to join a national demonstration about the NHS."

So, not quite nothing, then.

Live updates from the Mirror.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nh ... ds-9962365" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:56 pm

Willow904 wrote: some kind of bureaucratic nightmare designed to terrorise the needy and vulnerable.

Very well put.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:00 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... find-cover
Couriers who deliver parcels for Marks & Spencer, River Island and John Lewis face being charged £150 a day if they cannot find cover when they are ill.
Drivers for the multinational company DPD, which also makes home deliveries for Amazon and Asos, told the Guardian the contractual threat meant they sometimes forced themselves to work when sick.

It's one of the 'badges' of self-employment, whether you can provide someone else to take your place, so there's some back-covering going on there as well as profiteering, I'd guess.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:02 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Dear oh dear, there's some wonderful frothing going on from the usual suspects about the NHS demo today. They really loathe idea of a publicly-funded, non-insurance-based health system

What baffles me is how they think that simply changing who funds it will suddenly make health outcomes so much better. Why would it?

They've also never explained how much money would be spent on administration of an insurance-based system. Maybe someone could do some research from countries that use such a thing and place it here for us to read?

And...with the very predictable response.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

he really is a silly little man with too much time on his hands.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:04 pm

Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw
New rules restricting MPs from intervening with officials directly to resolve benefit payment problems on behalf of constituents are a major barrier to justice, ministers have been warned.
Seems to relate specifically to universal credit. The shroud of secrecy around UC is quite worrying. It is obviously failing on its explicit aims, yet keeps quietly rumbling on as some kind beaurocratic nightmare designed to terrorise the needy and vulnerable. All behind closed doors. Cutting out MPs from any kind of insight into the impacts of the system seems quite ominous to me. UC should have collapsed by now on account of its rollout being way behind and the overspend being exhorbitant.

(cJA's big)

This is terrifying and more.
What next? Disbanding the House of Commons altogether? T May declaring we've all agreed Tory government is all we need, forever and ever, amen?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:04 pm

gilsey wrote:I wonder how much we'll see of the NHS march today on BBC news. Something between little and nothing I expect.
http://healthcampaignstogether.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a helicopter so maybe we'll see it later on.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:08 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
Bonnylad wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-election
There was no additional information provided to substantiate the president’s claims that Obama had “wire tapped” Trump Tower, and it was not clear on what information Trump was basing the allegations.
More details soon...
If true, that means some poor sod would have had to listen to all the recordings. Maybe the world of espionage isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be.

Trump is intentionally cultivating an atmosphere of suspicion, fear, anxiety and paranoia. A world like that makes it easier to get away with whatever.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:08 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:15 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw
New rules restricting MPs from intervening with officials directly to resolve benefit payment problems on behalf of constituents are a major barrier to justice, ministers have been warned.
Seems to relate specifically to universal credit. The shroud of secrecy around UC is quite worrying. It is obviously failing on its explicit aims, yet keeps quietly rumbling on as some kind beaurocratic nightmare designed to terrorise the needy and vulnerable. All behind closed doors. Cutting out MPs from any kind of insight into the impacts of the system seems quite ominous to me. UC should have collapsed by now on account of its rollout being way behind and the overspend being exhorbitant.
(cJA's big)

This is terrifying and more.
What next? Disbanding the House of Commons altogether? T May declaring we've all agreed Tory government is all we need, forever and ever, amen?

Frightening part is, 40% of the population would think it's a great idea.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:19 pm

gilsey wrote:
citizenJA wrote:This is terrifying and more.
What next? Disbanding the House of Commons altogether? T May declaring we've all agreed Tory government is all we need, forever and ever, amen?
Frightening part is, 40% of the population would think it's a great idea.

(cJA edit)

Disbanding the House of Commons and/or having a perpetual Tory government?
I'm comforted polls mustered a minority wanting either.

Post by **adam** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:48 pm

citizenJA wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
Bonnylad wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-election
There was no additional information provided to substantiate the president’s claims that Obama had “wire tapped” Trump Tower, and it was not clear on what information Trump was basing the allegations.
More details soon...
If true, that means some poor sod would have had to listen to all the recordings. Maybe the world of espionage isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be.
Trump is intentionally cultivating an atmosphere of suspicion, fear, anxiety and paranoia. A world like that makes it easier to get away with whatever.

The American security services - in one or more of their many guises - will quite properly have been monitoring contacts between Russian government, officials and known surrogates and American contacts. Trump is taking the heart of allegations against him and pretending it's something bad the Democrats were doing. He is a piece of shit.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:59 pm

More robust vetting procedures for those seeking election for the office of President of the US should be in place.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:08 pm

citizenJA wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
Bonnylad wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-election
There was no additional information provided to substantiate the president’s claims that Obama had “wire tapped” Trump Tower, and it was not clear on what information Trump was basing the allegations.
More details soon...
If true, that means some poor sod would have had to listen to all the recordings. Maybe the world of espionage isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be.
Trump is intentionally cultivating an atmosphere of suspicion, fear, anxiety and paranoia. A world like that makes it easier to get away with whatever.

I do believe this above by cJA was FtN's 150,000th post. Well done everybody

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:46 pm

"...at the heart of the United Kingdom is the unity of our people: a unity of interests, outlook and principles. This transcends politics and institutions, the constitution and the economy. It is about the values we share in our family of nations. Our pooling and sharing of risks and resources, our social and economic solidarity. That social union is the glue which holds us together. We should never forget that the people who benefit the most from solidarity across the United Kingdom are not the strong and the successful, but the poorest and the most vulnerable in our society. We are four nations, but at heart we are one people. That solidarity is the essence of our United Kingdom and is the surest safeguard of its future. Let us live up to that high ideal and let us never stop making loudly and clearly, the positive optimistic and passionate case for our precious union of nations and people."

- Theresa May speech to Scottish Conservative conference

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/20 ... onference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These pretty assertions from T May's speech in Scotland yesterday are in flat contradiction of the evidence produced from almost seven years of Tory government.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:53 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:If true, that means some poor sod would have had to listen to all the recordings. Maybe the world of espionage isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be.
Trump is intentionally cultivating an atmosphere of suspicion, fear, anxiety and paranoia. A world like that makes it easier to get away with whatever.
I do believe this above by cJA was FtN's 150,000th post. Well done everybody

I'm chatty, no doubt about it.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 5:37 pm

Interesting post mortem

http://www.rachelburgin.org.uk/a-conver ... and-voter/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 7:55 pm

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 7h7 hours ago

How low did Ex-King and sad hater Offa go to intercept my envoys during Bretwalda campaign? Low enough to be in the FENS? DRAIN THE FENS!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 7:56 pm

DRAIN THE FENS! Gotta be harsh on the marsh.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 7:59 pm

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready Mar 3

Bad Monk Bede and FAILING @JorvikTimes scribe that I'm just all torc. TOTAL FAKE CHRONICLE! Got arm rings and belt buckles too! Wow!

blingtastic

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 8:01 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... bligations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Responding to the development, the leader of the socialist group in the European parliament, Gianni Pittella, who will play a significant role in shaping the EU’s negotiating stance, accused the British prime minister of incompetence and a “bullying” attitude, warning Theresa May that her plans would soon hit reality.

“Theresa May is a bull in a China shop,” he said. “She likes playing the role of the hardliner, but she’s just coming across as fully inadequate to live up to this incredibly delicate historical phase.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 8:07 pm

Fully. Inadequate.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 8:12 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 11516.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thought to be one of the biggest NHS rallies in history, the Our NHS march comes amid warnings of an unprecedented crisis within health services, fuelled by £20bn worth of cuts scheduled by 2020.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 8:13 pm

A rumoured 250,000 people were in attendance, with more than 150 coaches bringing NHS workers from all across the country to take part.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 8:20 pm

http://aei.pitt.edu/84488/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit and Europe: a new entente. EPC Discussion Paper, 23 February 2017
Duff, Andrew (2017) Brexit and Europe: a new entente. EPC Discussion Paper, 23 February 2017. [Policy Paper]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 9:13 pm

Four local council byelections this week, one already much discussed yesterday - fair to say Labour has enjoyed better results than this lot:

Salford - as many here will already know this saw a Tory gain from Labour on a big swing (over 12% since last May) Tory support was only up fairly modestly since then (and actually slightly down on 2015) but Labour support crashed by some 20 points - from approaching half to barely a quarter - in a ward they have always carried in modern times even if they have been run close a few times before (LibDems pressed them hard in the 2004 all-outs, then the Tories had a narrow miss in 2007 before again becoming fairly competitive in the last two elections, when their candidate was the winner on this occasion) Labour support has already taken a hit in this heavily Jewish ward, but what did for them this time was opposition to plans to expand the local football stadium - an Independent stood to advertise local feeling on this and polled over 17%. UKIP came second here in 2014, but have dropped to just 9% now; Greens got just over 2%, also roughly halved, but still just beat the LibDems who were some way short of their last showing here in 2012 - never mind the heady days referred to earlier.

Christchurch DC - Tory hold, though they dropped to less than half the vote and were run fairly close by an Independent (making a show here for the first time this century) who polled nearly 35 per cent. This ward has always been safe for the Tories - in 2011 it returned 3 councillors for them unopposed - with the main opposition coming from the LibDems in 2003 and 2007, but they have not stood here since then; in 2015 UKIP moved into second place, even though they were beaten by almost 2 to 1. UKIP crashed to just 6% this time, though - and even got beaten by Labour despite their own share being significantly down on two years ago. Greens weren't that far behind either, with over 5% in their first showing here.

Redcar & Cleveland - two contests here, the first was a LibDem hold in a ward that split 1Lib/1Lab last time round - it had safely returned two LibDems in successive contests before a previous 2012 byelection, when some injudicious social media activity from the LibDem hopeful led to a Labour gain on a big swing. This time round, a 7 per cent swing to the LibDems returned it to reasonably safe status for the LibDems; Labour may not have been helped by the UKIP vote holding up better than in many recent contests - at 16% just 4 points down on 2015. Then two Independents - the second the LibDem candidate in the previous by-election; their share was more than halved since two years ago, and they only just finished ahead of the last placed Tories who got 3% having not even bothered to stand here last time. The other result was rather different, though - a safe Tory hold in a ward that has always returned three members for them without fuss in recent times, with 57 per cent of the vote. LibDems had polled fairly well here in a previous byelection last year, but there was a 9 point swing back to the Tories now - both the yellows and reds made a clear decision to prioritize the other contest this week with Labour's 12 per cent being less than half of what they got here in 2015 (and also down on last year) UKIP again showed some resilience, however - their score of over 8 per cent was modestly up on last year, their first showing here.

Seven contests next week.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 9:40 pm

Lucky seven?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 10:43 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:33 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... exit-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watchdog to launch probe into misuse of data in politics

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:53 pm

"Donald Trump relied on Breitbart News for explosive claim Barack Obama wire-tapped his phones "
http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/900 ... his-phones

Ben Rhodes, Obama's former deputy national security adviser, also denied Trump's claims on Sunday.

"No President can order a wiretap," Rhodes wrote on Twitter in a response back to Trump.

"Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you."

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 7:18 am

https://medium.com/@theobertram/the-pow ... .4012sa4xm

Inside No10, the team whose job it is to carry out these post-mortems is Research and Information. It is staffed with exceptionally adept civil servants and also with one or two Special Advisers, like me. I worked in R&I for Tony Blair and then Gordon Brown and prepared them for hundreds of PMQs. I have seen Whitehall bring out its dead and pile them up on that table.

Slightly sinister article, by Theo
Bertram.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 7:24 am

"Tony Blair has attended a secret meeting at the White House amid claims he is in discussions to become an advisor to Donald Trump"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... id-claims/

Tony Blair's spokesman has refused to be drawn on claims that the former prime minister is seeking to become US President Donald Trump's Middle East envoy.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:10 am

Thanks for roundup AK.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:45 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:52 am

Benefit freeze leaves more families facing steep rent rise or eviction, Shelter warns

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... melessness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:59 am

Morning all.

Nigeria and the UK. It doesn't make pretty reading but this long piece is excellent (imho).

The oil deal, the disgraced former minister, and $800m paid via a UK bank

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -a-uk-bank" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 9:39 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... art-meters" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SSE customers charged up to £33,000 a day by faulty smart meters