FlyTheNest

Morning. Labour lead at 6 points on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 25th Sept -

Con 31%, (-2)
Lab 37%, (no change)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 13%; (no change)

APP -24 (-2)

Morning, I see we have a spammer again today.

Temulkar wrote:Morning, I see we have a spammer again today.

Not now we don't...

ErnstRemarx wrote:

Temulkar wrote:Morning, I see we have a spammer again today.

Not now we don't...

It's like whack-a-mole...

UKIPs exploitation of child sex scandals for political gain has been called out today by the father of a key prosecution witness in Heywood.

Nigel Farage accused of exploiting child abuse issue for political gain
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... x-politics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The father of the main prosecution witness in Britain’s biggest child sex grooming scandal has accused Nigel Farage of exploiting the issue for political gain as the UK Independence party attempts to unseat Labour in a Manchester byelection.

The man, known as Tom, whose daughter’s testimony led to the prosecution of nine Asian men and an overhaul of Crown Prosecution Service rules, said that the anti-federalist party had resorted to British National party-style tactics while campaigning to win Heywood and Middleton in Greater Manchester.

When you are denounced as racist by the father of one of the victims, you clearly are racist.

UKIP are the gutter, the idea that a PR based electoral system would give this lot the power to dictate the government (as well as a large number of MPs) is rapidly becoming a convincing argument for the awful FPTP system.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:When you are denounced as racist by the father of one of the victims, you clearly are racist.

UKIP are the gutter, the idea that a PR based electoral system would give this lot the power to dictate the government (as well as a large number of MPs) is rapidly becoming a convincing argument for the awful FPTP system.

Morning TE (and morning all)

I do think it possible under PR, however, that we would also see a rise in support for the Greens - which could balance the U-krap effect - and under PR (and my favourite, state funding for political parties) the parties actually have to agree a consensus, thereby nullifying the adversarial nature of British politics that has been used by the Tories (and Tory Blur) to such great effect over the last 30 years.

It's official, Nigel Farage is weirder than Ed.

What is bizarre is that only 9% think Cameron is weird.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 55345.html

Morning all. Has to be the most depressing headline for quite a while ...

Daily Mirror ‏@DailyMirror 4m
Britain set for THREE-YEAR war with ISIS http://bit.ly/1puwFqA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pic.twitter.com/SYRfMStNVj

Patients’ waiting times on NHS ‘a national disgrace’ – GP leader
Royal College of GPs chair speaks out as NHS figures show one in six patients has to wait at least a week before they see a GP
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... nhs-gps-uk

Wish they had added the word 'England' into that header.

As a little anecdote - that proves nothing nationally and is not an attempt to deny that NHS Wales has its own problems, it has - we have been very pleased with the service Mr Riots has just received. GP appointment within 2 days (non urgent). Immediate referral to hospital clinic. Consultant appointment and minor surgery within 2 weeks.

The only thing that stressed him was having to park on a grassy mound at the side of the hospital car park because there was no parking available at all in the car park itself ... and he didn't want to miss and / or waste his appointment especially as it's over an hours drive from us.

David Hare's piece on CiF is well worth a read:

At a simple level of competence, it’s very hard to remember any other administration which had no singular successes. Usually in any government of whatever stripe, there are at least individual ministers who are agreed to have done well in their jobs. But ministers who are way out of their depth – like Chris Grayling as justice secretary forbidding prisoners the right to be given books, as in fascist countries, or Iain Duncan Smith at work and pensions whose ignorance of working-class life has left him penalising those whom he most wished to reward – seem outnumbered by those for whom the coalition’s governing seediness tips into something more sinister.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... mentpage=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I see we have a Nigel Farage phrase generator this morning to go along with the Ed Miliband one. Anyone want to place a bet on whether we get a Nick Clegg or David Cameron phrase generator?

Looks like the Guardian is using a random phrase generator.

'Abandoned truck dripping rancid chicken juice' is one of their current Breaking News banner headlines.

refitman wrote:David Hare's piece on CiF is well worth a read:

At a simple level of competence, it’s very hard to remember any other administration which had no singular successes. Usually in any government of whatever stripe, there are at least individual ministers who are agreed to have done well in their jobs. But ministers who are way out of their depth – like Chris Grayling as justice secretary forbidding prisoners the right to be given books, as in fascist countries, or Iain Duncan Smith at work and pensions whose ignorance of working-class life has left him penalising those whom he most wished to reward – seem outnumbered by those for whom the coalition’s governing seediness tips into something more sinister.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... mentpage=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A very good read. He's so spot on with his observation about them having no inbuilt 'faculty of shame' ...

And I hope the 'effing Tories' branding does live on and haunt them.

yahyah wrote:Looks like the Guardian is using a random phrase generator.

'Abandoned truck dripping rancid chicken juice' is one of their current Breaking News banner headlines.

You just know that's one not to read - the images would be impossible to shift from your mind.

Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

ephemerid wrote:Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

Nicely phrased.

ephemerid wrote:Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

Morning ephemerid. Just read your comment. Have to say I agree wholeheartedly with you - that place has become a bear pit.

RobertSnozers wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:When you are denounced as racist by the father of one of the victims, you clearly are racist.

UKIP are the gutter, the idea that a PR based electoral system would give this lot the power to dictate the government (as well as a large number of MPs) is rapidly becoming a convincing argument for the awful FPTP system.

With respect, no it isn't. It's an argument for better education of social issues, more community activism by the less nutty parties, greater media plurality to break the awful stranglehold of Murdoch and me-too rightwing owners, better media regulation to call the media on lies about immigration etc etc, for mainstream politicians to be braver about the benefits of immigration... There is no argument for this or that electoral system on the basis that it keeps out people we don't like.

Well I am not sure I agree with your last point.

If the Weimar Republic had a better electoral system things might have been different. Similarly Israel and Greece both suffer from electoral systems that cause huge issues.

The UKs system is rubbish as it goes, but it sets the bar high for minority parties. The Greens suffer from this, but so does the hard right. You can't fix everything with education and media, a nasty little fascist with a neat patter and big pockets can go a long way. I think our system is why, despite being just as racist and nasty as the rest of Europe, we have never had the racists in power.

ephemerid wrote:Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

With yourself and TGS bowing out the lights of sensibility are being extinguished. The"rules" over there seem to have changed rather rapidly. I'm trying to hang on in there until after conference season but it's hard to not get wound up by the level of acceptable bullying.

StephenDolan wrote:

ephemerid wrote:Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

With yourself and TGS bowing out the lights of sensibility are being extinguished. The"rules" over there seem to have changed rather rapidly. I'm trying to hang on in there until after conference season but it's hard to not get wound up by the level of acceptable bullying.

I think it will be all the way to the election. It looks to me like a bunch of paid Tory staffers have turned up. If the Guardian wants to avoid its boards being shut down as a vehicle for readership it needs to take action. Easy to do it only takes 20 or so trolls.

Where it leads to is the toxic wasteland of the Telegraph.

StephenDolan wrote:

ephemerid wrote:Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

With yourself and TGS bowing out the lights of sensibility are being extinguished. The"rules" over there seem to have changed rather rapidly. I'm trying to hang on in there until after conference season but it's hard to not get wound up by the level of acceptable bullying.

Morning all.

Ephe, I've read and recc'ed your comment. Beautifully put. I have sent an email to Andrew (via the Politics desk, as I was unable to find a direct one) saying much the same as you have posted today; needless to say I have not received a reply and don't anticipate receiving one either. The Guardian is no longer about quality journalism, it is about gaining as many page views as possible to generate revenue via their advertising; the activities of astroturfers like RingPiece will achieve that, half decent & largely sensible political debate will not, so RP will be tolerated & encouraged whereas we are disposable. C'est la vie.

In other news ..... Finally got myself organised enough to pick up a copy of "Harry's Last Stand"; not read much so far, but Mr Smith does write superbly. I noticed comments here yesterday about his article in the Guardian, and the comments BTL; no big surprise there really, considering the Tories are supposed to be the party of the middle and upper tiers it is astonishing how little class their supporters actually display.

StephenDolan wrote:

ephemerid wrote:Good morning all.

I've just posted my (hopefully temporary) farewell to Andrew Sparrow on his blog.
I imagine the comment won't stay for long, so if you want to see it, best to look now.

Such a shame. I'll miss it. But the banter has changed, thanks to certain individuals, and it's not a pleasant place to be any more.

Meanwhile, David Hare gets a round of applause from me.

With yourself and TGS bowing out the lights of sensibility are being extinguished. The"rules" over there seem to have changed rather rapidly. I'm trying to hang on in there until after conference season but it's hard to not get wound up by the level of acceptable bullying.

Yeah, same here - but its pretty toxic at the moment.

Morning.
My ‘do not feed the troll’ post on politics live has been modded. Sheesh.

MsChin wrote:Morning.
My ‘do not feed the troll’ post on politics live has been modded. Sheesh.

But I expect the post you referred to (another unlinked HSJ article from wotsisface?) is untouched?

Thanks for the comments - I've had some lovely ones on the G, and it's very nice to be appreciated.

But - and you're all right on this - good people are going because of the atmosphere generally and certain poster in particular.

I am sick of reporting trolls to find that their posts stay when perfectly reasonable ripostes to them are removed.
TGS and I had a chat about this, and he and I have been stalked on Twitter with our remarks posted (complete with nasty remarks) on CIF.

A few posters have pointed out that if some of us leave, the trolls have won. Maybe. But personally, I refuse to go to a place where I know that some of the people there have a mission to destroy reasonable conversation and reduce the level of debate to playground bullying.
I am not the sort of person who can let this stuff wash over me, I am a bit too emotional for that. Can't change my nature at my age!

Andrew and/or the mods could, were they so minded, do something about it. But I suspect that as long as the clicks keep coming they won't.

Stephen is right - the sense of community has gone.

Bernadette Horton, the woman who had trouble at the conference with disabled seating arrangements, has written about her experiences :

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-5a ... conference" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid wrote:Thanks for the comments - I've had some lovely ones on the G, and it's very nice to be appreciated.

But - and you're all right on this - good people are going because of the atmosphere generally and certain poster in particular.

I am sick of reporting trolls to find that their posts stay when perfectly reasonable ripostes to them are removed.
TGS and I had a chat about this, and he and I have been stalked on Twitter with our remarks posted (complete with nasty remarks) on CIF.

A few posters have pointed out that if some of us leave, the trolls have won. Maybe. But personally, I refuse to go to a place where I know that some of the people there have a mission to destroy reasonable conversation and reduce the level of debate to playground bullying.
I am not the sort of person who can let this stuff wash over me, I am a bit too emotional for that. Can't change my nature at my age!

Andrew and/or the mods could, were they so minded, do something about it. But I suspect that as long as the clicks keep coming they won't.

Stephen is right - the sense of community has gone.

I don't think it is really down to them, tbh - they are just doing what they are told.

Rubbisher and his cronies WANT a right wing clientele for what is an ever more right wing newspaper.

Bought a copy yesterday for the first time in ages yesterday - it was, mostly, rubbish (I refer people to my comment "over there")

This is a good piece about bombing IS

http://newint.org/blog/2014/09/16/islam ... tern-trap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

islamic-state-western-trap

As someone who's permanently banned from the Graun's comments system, none of what I've read above comes as any great surprise. I've been sadly nodding my head in agreement at each new post. When I was banned (or, rather, had my ability to comment 'suspended' as they so euphemistically termed it), I did indeed write to the moderators to ask if they'd show me the offending comment(s). What I received back was a blandola email saying I'd transgressed the (un)written law. OK, I replied, how and where? In the end I received a more personal email from a female at the Graun saying that she didn't know what I'd done either. My last - and as yet, unanswered - email was to point out that it was a pretty shoddy way to treat contributors, and to point out that I'd been reading the paper copy (you know, the one that costs money every day and every weekend) for around 30 years.

When I realised that there would be no answer, and that this was indeed going to be the attitude and editorial line for the previously faithful readership, I simply stopped buying it, and, like others here, I visit less and less often, since it's not my home and they clearly don't want me there (or any of you, apparently).

FTN's my home now. There's more interesting and informed comment here than in several days worth of the Graun. Links found in here are generally excellent reading or viewing and I thank you all, as a fellow contributor, for your work here and your presence.

My only request is that if you're still on the Graun and note an interesting contributor, do us all a favour and invite them to join us here.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

RobertSnozers wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:When you are denounced as racist by the father of one of the victims, you clearly are racist.

UKIP are the gutter, the idea that a PR based electoral system would give this lot the power to dictate the government (as well as a large number of MPs) is rapidly becoming a convincing argument for the awful FPTP system.

With respect, no it isn't. It's an argument for better education of social issues, more community activism by the less nutty parties, greater media plurality to break the awful stranglehold of Murdoch and me-too rightwing owners, better media regulation to call the media on lies about immigration etc etc, for mainstream politicians to be braver about the benefits of immigration... There is no argument for this or that electoral system on the basis that it keeps out people we don't like.

Well I am not sure I agree with your last point.

If the Weimar Republic had a better electoral system things might have been different. Similarly Israel and Greece both suffer from electoral systems that cause huge issues.

The UKs system is rubbish as it goes, but it sets the bar high for minority parties. The Greens suffer from this, but so does the hard right. You can't fix everything with education and media, a nasty little fascist with a neat patter and big pockets can go a long way. I think our system is why, despite being just as racist and nasty as the rest of Europe, we have never had the racists in power.

It wasnt the system of voting under Weimar that caused the rise of Hitler. It was 13+ million people voting for them. Whatever system was being used, with that amount of the electorate supporting him, Hitler was going to gain power. The citing of PR as a cause of Nazism is a particularly British interpretation.

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

ephemerid wrote:Thanks for the comments - I've had some lovely ones on the G, and it's very nice to be appreciated.

But - and you're all right on this - good people are going because of the atmosphere generally and certain poster in particular.

I am sick of reporting trolls to find that their posts stay when perfectly reasonable ripostes to them are removed.
TGS and I had a chat about this, and he and I have been stalked on Twitter with our remarks posted (complete with nasty remarks) on CIF.

A few posters have pointed out that if some of us leave, the trolls have won. Maybe. But personally, I refuse to go to a place where I know that some of the people there have a mission to destroy reasonable conversation and reduce the level of debate to playground bullying.
I am not the sort of person who can let this stuff wash over me, I am a bit too emotional for that. Can't change my nature at my age!

Andrew and/or the mods could, were they so minded, do something about it. But I suspect that as long as the clicks keep coming they won't.

Stephen is right - the sense of community has gone.

I don't think it is really down to them, tbh - they are just doing what they are told.

Rubbisher and his cronies WANT a right wing clientele for what is an ever more right wing newspaper.

Bought a copy yesterday for the first time in ages yesterday - it was, mostly, rubbish (I refer people to my comment "over there")

Pretty much the only time I read the Groan now is in paper copy and that's rare. The nice thing about the print Guardian is you can read it fully aware that Rusbridger isn't making any money out of you

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:This is a good piece about bombing IS

http://newint.org/blog/2014/09/16/islam ... tern-trap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

islamic-state-western-trap

Hard to argue with some of Peter Hitchen's points here too:

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... olly-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or George Galloway's on Weekly Politics last night, the Saudi's have 700 aircraft capable of bombing IS, why aren't they doing it, personally I wouldn't give a damn if every IS fighter had a bullet in the back of their head, and the front for good measure, but let the Arab word sort it out.

Being a non subscriber to the Mail Group I missed this little gem..

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... ottom.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you, Danesclose, for bringing the following article to my attention.

Cameron’s remark about ‘effing Tories’ hints at what he really thinks
The PR man understands people’s loathing. This is no surprise. His gift is for distraction – he doesn’t actually believe the stuff

But the far larger diversion of the last four years has been more deeply damaging. By the brutal exercise of blackmail – “We got you into this, only we can get you out of it” – the financial sector, entirely responsible for the crash of 2007-8, has been rewarded for its greed even as its countless victims have been punished. The public at large has been ordered to endure a diet of low wages, rising prices, failing public services and job insecurity, while banks and financial institutions have been lavishly subsidised at our expense and refitted to precipitate the next crisis by the same old means.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... lly-thinks

Current government is a thorough disgrace, I've no time for those supporting current government. Desperate attempts at distraction from the bad leadership people have had to endure are just that - desperate.

letsskiptotheleft wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:This is a good piece about bombing IS

http://newint.org/blog/2014/09/16/islam ... tern-trap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

islamic-state-western-trap

Hard to argue with some of Peter Hitchen's points here too:

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... olly-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or George Galloway's on Weekly Politics last night, the Saudi's have 700 aircraft capable of bombing IS, why aren't they doing it, personally I wouldn't give a damn if every IS fighter had a bullet in the back of their head, and the front for good measure, but let the Arab word sort it out.

Dave has just told another massive porkie in the debate:

Does the UK need to take part? Yes, he says. It has capacity that other countries do not, such as the Brimstone missile, which even the US don’t have.

That’s why President Obama wants the UK involved.

Except that there is one other country that operates Brimstone, the Saudis; we know the Saudis are already involved in operations against IS/ISIL, we know as Galloway points out they have a well equipped air force (although he is wrong on the numbers, they 'only' have about 350-400 suitable aircraft) and we know we they have Brimstone because we sold it to them to fit onto the Tornados we sold them earlier. So Obama doesn't need us, this is just about Dave trying for his Falklands Moment ..... again.

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

letsskiptotheleft wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:This is a good piece about bombing IS

http://newint.org/blog/2014/09/16/islam ... tern-trap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

islamic-state-western-trap

Hard to argue with some of Peter Hitchen's points here too:

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... olly-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or George Galloway's on Weekly Politics last night, the Saudi's have 700 aircraft capable of bombing IS, why aren't they doing it, personally I wouldn't give a damn if every IS fighter had a bullet in the back of their head, and the front for good measure, but let the Arab word sort it out.

Dave has just told another massive porkie in the debate:

Does the UK need to take part? Yes, he says. It has capacity that other countries do not, such as the Brimstone missile, which even the US don’t have.

That’s why President Obama wants the UK involved.

Except that there is one other country that operates Brimstone, the Saudis; we know the Saudis are already involved in operations against IS/ISIL, we know as Galloway points out they have a well equipped air force (although he is wrong on the numbers, they 'only' have about 350-400 suitable aircraft) and we know we they have Brimstone because we sold it to them to fit onto the Tornados we sold them earlier. So Obama doesn't need us, this is just about Dave trying for his Falklands Moment ..... again.

I did wince at Galloway's attack on Jacqui Smith, even though I think she's a horrific piece of work..

Temulkar wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

RobertSnozers wrote: With respect, no it isn't. It's an argument for better education of social issues, more community activism by the less nutty parties, greater media plurality to break the awful stranglehold of Murdoch and me-too rightwing owners, better media regulation to call the media on lies about immigration etc etc, for mainstream politicians to be braver about the benefits of immigration... There is no argument for this or that electoral system on the basis that it keeps out people we don't like.

Well I am not sure I agree with your last point.

If the Weimar Republic had a better electoral system things might have been different. Similarly Israel and Greece both suffer from electoral systems that cause huge issues.

The UKs system is rubbish as it goes, but it sets the bar high for minority parties. The Greens suffer from this, but so does the hard right. You can't fix everything with education and media, a nasty little fascist with a neat patter and big pockets can go a long way. I think our system is why, despite being just as racist and nasty as the rest of Europe, we have never had the racists in power.

It wasnt the system of voting under Weimar that caused the rise of Hitler. It was 13+ million people voting for them. Whatever system was being used, with that amount of the electorate supporting him, Hitler was going to gain power. The citing of PR as a cause of Nazism is a particularly British interpretation.

13 million people didn't turn up on day one and vote for him. A system that made it easier to form stronger governments could well have prevented a very gradual rise to power.

Morning

http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The impact of Council Tax Support changes in London.

A short piece,which highlights the variability.

I'm gently amused by the push back against the Mansion Tax, this one from Kate Barker

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... -says.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labours-mansion-tax-would-be-very-disruptive-former-adviser-says

Jeremy Bowen makes some good points here..

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affai ... r-them-all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wars that run parallel which each other and cross over into one bloody mess..

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Patients’ waiting times on NHS ‘a national disgrace’ – GP leader
Royal College of GPs chair speaks out as NHS figures show one in six patients has to wait at least a week before they see a GP
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... nhs-gps-uk

Wish they had added the word 'England' into that header.

As a little anecdote - that proves nothing nationally and is not an attempt to deny that NHS Wales has its own problems, it has - we have been very pleased with the service Mr Riots has just received. GP appointment within 2 days (non urgent). Immediate referral to hospital clinic. Consultant appointment and minor surgery within 2 weeks.

The only thing that stressed him was having to park on a grassy mound at the side of the hospital car park because there was no parking available at all in the car park itself ... and he didn't want to miss and / or waste his appointment especially as it's over an hours drive from us.

I think it makes a difference if you have a decent, efficient GP as well.

refitman wrote:David Hare's piece on CiF is well worth a read:

At a simple level of competence, it’s very hard to remember any other administration which had no singular successes. Usually in any government of whatever stripe, there are at least individual ministers who are agreed to have done well in their jobs. But ministers who are way out of their depth – like Chris Grayling as justice secretary forbidding prisoners the right to be given books, as in fascist countries, or Iain Duncan Smith at work and pensions whose ignorance of working-class life has left him penalising those whom he most wished to reward – seem outnumbered by those for whom the coalition’s governing seediness tips into something more sinister.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... mentpage=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OW!

An interesting Tweet I thought

Watching this debate on BBC Parliament, and I have to say that was a genuinely thoughtful and statesmanlike performance I just witnessed; Cameron, however, was his usual lying & blustering self.

letsskiptotheleft wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:This is a good piece about bombing IS

http://newint.org/blog/2014/09/16/islam ... tern-trap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

islamic-state-western-trap

Hard to argue with some of Peter Hitchen's points here too:

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... olly-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or George Galloway's on Weekly Politics last night, the Saudi's have 700 aircraft capable of bombing IS, why aren't they doing it, personally I wouldn't give a damn if every IS fighter had a bullet in the back of their head, and the front for good measure, but let the Arab word sort it out.

Couple of good articles at The Indy - shame about some of the BTL comments:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 56325.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 53819.html

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2014 ... ace-appeal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Coast and Country Housing Association helping their tenants appeal against the "it's not a mansion,nor your family home,so up yours "policy.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

Temulkar wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Well I am not sure I agree with your last point.

If the Weimar Republic had a better electoral system things might have been different. Similarly Israel and Greece both suffer from electoral systems that cause huge issues.

The UKs system is rubbish as it goes, but it sets the bar high for minority parties. The Greens suffer from this, but so does the hard right. You can't fix everything with education and media, a nasty little fascist with a neat patter and big pockets can go a long way. I think our system is why, despite being just as racist and nasty as the rest of Europe, we have never had the racists in power.

It wasnt the system of voting under Weimar that caused the rise of Hitler. It was 13+ million people voting for them. Whatever system was being used, with that amount of the electorate supporting him, Hitler was going to gain power. The citing of PR as a cause of Nazism is a particularly British interpretation.

13 million people didn't turn up on day one and vote for him. A system that made it easier to form stronger governments could well have prevented a very gradual rise to power.

13,745, 680 Germans voted for Hitler and the Nazis on 31st July 1932 in the Federal elections.
13,418,517 Germans voted for Hitler on March 10th 1932 in the Presidential election.

The problem with the Weimar constitution was not PR, it was the ability of the president to rule by decree in time of emergency which the Nazis used to subvert the constitution. They were legitimately elected wit the largest number of seats and votes, with first past the post and a 38% share of the vote and a system like ours it would have been worse. Look at what our government has done without mandate.

I try not be too partisan, I like to think I realise there are numbskulls aplenty on Labour's benches too. I also try to realise that not every area in the country is like mine, working class, where now people travel to work rather than it being on their doorstep. In short there are different demographics which wouldn't understand me or I them. But I struggle to understand how people can vote for a bloke like this, goes totally over my head.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/09/a ... on-debate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just added this http://www.euromove.org.uk/index.php?id=15296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Economic Benefits to the UK of EU Membership in the "Features and Analysis" section
Not sure its the right place but cant find Troll Busters?
Can a mod move it to where it should be? pretty please and thanks