Saturday 11th and Sunday 12th March 2017

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 12:40 pm

admin

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 12:41 pm

and I don't mean refitman

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 12:41 pm

I mean the bane of my life

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 12:42 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Davis: MPs must choose between May's deal and crashing out of EU (Guardian)
Suppose they amount to more or less the same thing? Where will that leave us?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -out-of-eu
Does Theresa May, have a say over the wording of a final deal, before it's offered to parliament for approval, or is that purely up to the EU?
Would it be possible for a non-binary offer to be made, ie;
Option 1: new relationship, Option 2: stay as is, Option 3: Flounce.
Suppose It could be more complicated, with a choice of new relationships, but thinking behind question is, EU giving UK a choice which would allow parliament to to have meaningful vote, regardless of Government's wishes.

Seems as though "that's for her to know, and the rest of us to find out".

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 12:44 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: He seems completely unaware that constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster:
The SG could well hold an advisory referendum - which would not be legally binding - ie it would just be a big opinion poll, just like the EU referendum. We had a "once in a lifetime" legally binding referendum in 2014 and, to coin a phrase, "the will of the people" was to remain part of the UK. (And the result was more decisive than the EU vote).

Are we heading towards a state of "government by opinion poll"?
Sorry, whatever the legal niceties this is a silly and utterly unconvincing line.

ALL SIDES sold the EU referendum as a binding decision. Being in denial about this does "remainiacs" no favours.
The fact that all the parties misled the public over the nature of the referendum doesn't make it any more legally binding. The salient point is that if Cameron had attempted to take a legally binding referendum on such a big issue through parliament it would have required considerably more scrutiny and debate and firm plans for how a leave vote would be taken forward than we have had either before or, indeed, after the vote.

The fact that the whole of parliament, rather than just the Tories, shafted remain voters over the nature and delivery of the referendum bill doesn't help Labour's case. It's not 'denial' to recognise that remain voters have been seriously let down by those parties that professed to represent their views but failed to stick to their 2015 manifesto promises to only support an EU referendum in the event of more powers being transferred to Brussels.

The main culprits here are the Tories without doubt...... but the other parties (apart from the SNP) voted for the referendum bill knowing this was the case - in fact Liddington responded to a question from Salmond on this subject - even the LD, and who was Labour leader at the time?

That being said thought even if you are right, then it makes no material difference to where we are now. The question is how to respond to any indications public opinion is turning significantly against Brexit over the next two years and see how it can be prevented

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 1:00 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 24841.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Second major 2015 Tory manifesto pledge dropped in a week
Ministers confirmed a plan to build 200,000 starter homes had been shelve d

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm of the opinion Brexit can't be prevented now. Changing course would destroy the Tories, so I see no scenario in which they would do so.

As such, campaigning to remain in the single market in 2020, seems the best option. Chuka Umunna, judging by the G article this morning, appears to want Labour to follow this course.

Others in Labour don't. As such I'm not sure the party will be able to avoid a split. Of course, Theresa May may not be able to take her whole party with her on a hard Brexit trajectory. So it's possible there could be some serious volatility in voting and party support in the coming years. It still doesn't look good for Labour, though, IMO. The aims of leave and remain Labour voters are too much in opposition to each other. I see little hope of one party successfully encompassing such divergent cultural values.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 2:09 pm

norman smith‏ @BBCNormanS
Hearing rumours PM wants whip removed from Tory rebels who vote against govt over Brexit.
7:45 am · 8 Mar 2017

Prof John Alcolado‏ @Jcalcolado
@BBCNormanS sounds like a move to engineer reason for early election. She loses thin majority and goes to country whilst opp in disarray

Extremely unlikely, surely?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 2:24 pm

Yeah. Somebody watching too much television there.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 2:38 pm

Good-afternoon

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 2:38 pm

PorFavor wrote:I hope all is well in the yahyah household.

Hear hear

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 2:58 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Davis: MPs must choose between May's deal and crashing out of EU (Guardian)
Suppose they amount to more or less the same thing? Where will that leave us?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -out-of-eu

Davis' comments made and quoted in the article above are scarier than hell.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 3:43 pm

Somebody on Twitter suggested the manner in which Rebecca Long-Bailey was referring to Kezia Dugdale didn't exactly suggest they were on the same side.

Any truth in that?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 3:46 pm

I know Geordie Grieg is a Remainer, but still a very striking frontpage.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 4:00 pm

I'm looking forward to feeling ten years younger.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 4:05 pm

Only just come across this supposedly heavyweight Brexiter.

Robert Kimbell‏ @RedHotSquirrel Mar 10
More
Where's the growth? It sure ain't in the EU

+7.7% Burma
+7.5% Ethiopia
+7.4% Ghana
+7.2% India
+6.7% Php

Yeah, let's be rich like Burma!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 4:07 pm

Ha ha.

Robert Kimbell‏
@RedHotSquirrel
What would 'no deal' with the EU mean?

The EU pays £12.9bn in tariffs to the UK
The UK pays £5.2bn in tariffs to the EU

Source Civitas, as he puts it.

One of his fans says Lords and MPs are "bought".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 4:26 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... 1m-in-fees" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Green Investment Bank sell-off racks up at least £1m in fees
MPs condemn ‘waste of money’ as documents show controversial £2bn privatisation has cost taxpayers at least £1m in banking and legal fees

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 4:40 pm

Willow904 wrote:I'm of the opinion Brexit can't be prevented now. Changing course would destroy the Tories, so I see no scenario in which they would do so.

As such, campaigning to remain in the single market in 2020, seems the best option. Chuka Umunna, judging by the G article this morning, appears to want Labour to follow this course.

Others in Labour don't. As such I'm not sure the party will be able to avoid a split. Of course, Theresa May may not be able to take her whole party with her on a hard Brexit trajectory. So it's possible there could be some serious volatility in voting and party support in the coming years. It still doesn't look good for Labour, though, IMO. The aims of leave and remain Labour voters are too much in opposition to each other. I see little hope of one party successfully encompassing such divergent cultural values.

Labour didn't follow this course. Your tense is all wrong. The chance to do this has been and gone.

Labour chose to approve of Hard Brexit, and that is what we'll get.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:08 pm

Ouch.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ns-twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fillon to discipline party workers over antisemitic caricature of Macron

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:12 pm

Willow904 wrote:I'm of the opinion Brexit can't be prevented now. Changing course would destroy the Tories, so I see no scenario in which they would do so.

As such, campaigning to remain in the single market in 2020, seems the best option. Chuka Umunna, judging by the G article this morning, appears to want Labour to follow this course.

Others in Labour don't. As such I'm not sure the party will be able to avoid a split. Of course, Theresa May may not be able to take her whole party with her on a hard Brexit trajectory. So it's possible there could be some serious volatility in voting and party support in the coming years. It still doesn't look good for Labour, though, IMO. The aims of leave and remain Labour voters are too much in opposition to each other. I see little hope of one party successfully encompassing such divergent cultural values.

I think Labour's fine. Sure, lots of its voters went for Brexit. But the EU's never been the obsession it is among Tory voters. Keeping the Poles out of Sunderland is going to be a lower priority than keeping Nissan production there.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:20 pm

http://newsthump.com/2017/03/10/badgers ... ialnetwork" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Badgers announce cull of Government Ministers

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:34 pm

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sir-tim-berne ... 22058.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sir Tim Berners-Lee, World Wide Web inventor, urges crackdown on 'shocking' fake news

The thing is many of us saw this coming and registered concerns at the time. But so keen were we to drive along the information superhighway that little/nothing was done in advance to consider the unintended consequences. Tedious, in its own way.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:36 pm

post-publication peer review. equally well-intentioned and equally the next step in the erosion of any kind of quality control on what is and isn't "knowledge".

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:42 pm

Know something that makes me seethe? The fact that I KEEP FORGETTING to leave the space between [quote] and http - so that you can't click the link and I keep having to go back to correct it.

seethity seethe seethe.
seethe seethe.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:44 pm

Charlie Falconer‏Verified account
@LordCFalconer
Budget has justice spending still falling. Prisons in chaos courts overwhelmed legal aid slashed. Its going to get worse. Justice in peril.

I'm sure.

I was frustrated with Miliband over this too, so not just having a pop at Corbyn.

Justice is a fairly small spending item in the general scheme of things. So why can't somebody knock together some sort of progressive tax and go to the public saying "this will sort out the justice system" or maybe just part of it eg legal aid?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:48 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Know something that makes me seethe? The fact that I KEEP FORGETTING to leave the space between
and http - so that you can't click the link and I keep having to go back to correct it.

seethity seethe seethe.
seethe seethe.

If I were you, I'd have a good seethe. It'll make you feel better.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:49 pm

The Australian position outlined above seems to have changed from Sept last year:

Brexit boost: Commonwealth nations DESPERATE to secure free trade deals with Britain

THERESA May has been given a post-Brexit trade boost after Australia, India and a host of other Commonwealth nations declared their interest to form free trade deals with Britain.

...The Australian leader, who went to Oxford University with Mrs May, has offered to lend trade ministers to Britain to help negotiate the best deals, saying Australia would be "getting in to deal with the British early".

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/707560 ... ls-Britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:50 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Know something that makes me seethe? The fact that I KEEP FORGETTING to leave the space between
and http - so that you can't click the link and I keep having to go back to correct it.

seethity seethe seethe.
seethe seethe.

If I were you, I'd have a good seethe. It'll make you feel better.

Am seriously considering it.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:55 pm

what - as they say these days - the fuck?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 24776.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Police called to North Yorkshire school after toilet breaks 'limited to two a day'
Pupils were told they could only use the toilet between 11.05-11.25am and 12.25-12.45pm
....
The decision was criticised as "breaching human rights", but the 11-16 comprehensive school maintains the toilets are accessible on request and to those who held a 'medical card'.

We seriously need to a get a grip.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 5:57 pm

Who called the authorities, I wonder?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:02 pm

One for Eric.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1515 ... n_England/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HEALTH Secretary Shona Robison has been pulled up by the UK Statistics Authority after making negative comparisons with the NHS in England.

The UKSA found that a recent statement by Robison on delayed discharges was “ambiguous” and had the "potential to mislead".

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:11 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:what - as they say these days - the fuck?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 24776.html
Police called to North Yorkshire school after toilet breaks 'limited to two a day'
Pupils were told they could only use the toilet between 11.05-11.25am and 12.25-12.45pm
....
The decision was criticised as "breaching human rights", but the 11-16 comprehensive school maintains the toilets are accessible on request and to those who held a 'medical card'.
We seriously need to a get a grip.

I'm unable to link to the article (for reasons which, I believe, you alluded to earlier) but is the educational establishment "The David Cameron School for Advanced Bladder Control"?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:22 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:what - as they say these days - the fuck?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 24776.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Police called to North Yorkshire school after toilet breaks 'limited to two a day'
Pupils were told they could only use the toilet between 11.05-11.25am and 12.25-12.45pm
....
The decision was criticised as "breaching human rights", but the 11-16 comprehensive school maintains the toilets are accessible on request and to those who held a 'medical card'.
We seriously need to a get a grip.
I'm unable to link to the article (for reasons which, I believe, you alluded to earlier) but is the educational establishment "The David Cameron School for Advanced Bladder Control"?

Seethetastic. Link now accessible.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:23 pm

@PorFavor
brilliant

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:28 pm

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 1h

Donaeld The Unready Retweeted Wulfgar the Bard
Smart wic brains should buy everything my daughter (what a looker) sells. Ignore Norse and their fancy beads. Buy Mercian (made in Cathay).

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:31 pm

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 4h4 hours ago

People say I don't know enough about rival Welsh Kingdoms! TOTAL FAKE CHRONICLES. I'm fully Clwyd up about the leeky slate splitters!

DtU. what a star.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:35 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 25296.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
School pupils as young as eight will reportedly be taught mindfulness and relaxation exercises as part of a trial run by the Government to promote wellbeing.

Oh ffs. How about losing the endless aspirational out of school nonsense and doing a bit of old-fashioned playing out.

Or have I finally turned into my folks?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 6:40 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... u-movement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sunday of protest in 40 cities to show growth of pro-EU movement

In Germany, 35 cities are participating, along with five in France, as well as Amsterdam, Brussels, and Bath in the UK.
...
But it has grown from a single-city event in February to one hosted across Europe, albeit mainly in Germany. The organisers have pledged to hold weekly rallies to raise awareness about the EU until after the French presidential elections, recognising that the outcomes of the polls in France and the Netherlands have the potential to unalterably change the EU.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:01 pm

citizenJA wrote:Who called the authorities, I wonder?

Well, having made the press, whoever did must be flushed with success.

And, joking aside, I don't approve of limiting access to the toilets. Whoever came up with that idea has got a rather twisted mind and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children, in my opinion.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:12 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:One for Eric.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1515 ... n_England/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HEALTH Secretary Shona Robison has been pulled up by the UK Statistics Authority after making negative comparisons with the NHS in England.

The UKSA found that a recent statement by Robison on delayed discharges was “ambiguous” and had the "potential to mislead".

SNP minister saying their own failings are less than England's failings? Nah, that can't be true

Readers given chance to submit questions to Health Secretary Shona Robison

It'll be interesting to see which questions she chooses to answer!
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/o ... -1-4386231

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:17 pm

Scottish pensioners preferences.

Bad news for Sturgeon there. Not surprising, given that pensions would have to be cut barring an unlikely oil boom or handout from the EU.

Even worse news for Corbyn, and far worse than Dugdale. We really can't have him leading Labour if there's another Indyref. Given that could be next year, he needs to resign by Conference at the very latest. He's really in "anybody would be better".

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:18 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 25296.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
School pupils as young as eight will reportedly be taught mindfulness and relaxation exercises as part of a trial run by the Government to promote wellbeing.
Oh ffs. How about losing the endless aspirational out of school nonsense and doing a bit of old-fashioned playing out.

Or have I finally turned into my folks?

I'd rather kids be able to use the toilet when they need to, you know?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:19 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:One for Eric.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1515 ... n_England/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HEALTH Secretary Shona Robison has been pulled up by the UK Statistics Authority after making negative comparisons with the NHS in England.

The UKSA found that a recent statement by Robison on delayed discharges was “ambiguous” and had the "potential to mislead".
SNP minister saying their own failings are less than England's failings? Nah, that can't be true

Readers given chance to submit questions to Health Secretary Shona Robison
It'll be interesting to see which questions she chooses to answer!
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/o ... -1-4386231

I hear those bed blockers are still around in Scotland? Weren't they supposed to be gone by now?

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:23 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Somebody on Twitter suggested the manner in which Rebecca Long-Bailey was referring to Kezia Dugdale didn't exactly suggest they were on the same side.

Any truth in that?

TBH, it's getting difficult to see who's on which side:

On a visit to Glasgow on Saturday for the party’s economic conference, leader Jeremy Corbyn said it was “absolutely fine” for another vote to be held.

Meanwhile, in an interview at the same event with BBC Scotland’s Sunday Politics Scotland programme, shadow chancellor John McDonnell said MPs would need to see “the nature” of any request for a second referendum before making a decision.

A Scottish Labour spokesman said: “Scottish Labour is firmly opposed to a second referendum. Our country is divided enough and we will vote against any SNP plans for another divisive referendum...

...Mr Corbyn’s comments angered figures within Scottish Labour, including MP Ian Murray and MSP Jackie Baillie, as the party seeks to establish a clear position on Scotland’s constitutional future.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-l ... -1-4390092

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:23 pm

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... iry-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Foreign Affairs Committee
Article 50 negotiations: Implications of 'no deal' inquiry

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:30 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Somebody on Twitter suggested the manner in which Rebecca Long-Bailey was referring to Kezia Dugdale didn't exactly suggest they were on the same side.

Any truth in that?
TBH, it's getting difficult to see who's on which side:

On a visit to Glasgow on Saturday for the party’s economic conference, leader Jeremy Corbyn said it was “absolutely fine” for another vote to be held.

Meanwhile, in an interview at the same event with BBC Scotland’s Sunday Politics Scotland programme, shadow chancellor John McDonnell said MPs would need to see “the nature” of any request for a second referendum before making a decision.

A Scottish Labour spokesman said: “Scottish Labour is firmly opposed to a second referendum. Our country is divided enough and we will vote against any SNP plans for another divisive referendum...

...Mr Corbyn’s comments angered figures within Scottish Labour, including MP Ian Murray and MSP Jackie Baillie, as the party seeks to establish a clear position on Scotland’s constitutional future.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-l ... -1-4390092

Dugdale had been softer towards indy, hadn't she? Though I think she pulled back, or let her softer position lie.

Corbyn looks like he's pulling rank there. Not really "Mr Membership", is it?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:37 pm

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Who called the authorities, I wonder?
Well, having made the press, whoever did must be flushed with success.

And, joking aside, I don't approve of limiting access to the toilets. Whoever came up with that idea has got a rather twisted mind and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children, in my opinion.

A few weeks of teenage girls loudly asking male teachers if they can go to the toilet because their period has started and they'll soon be letting them use the loos between lessons without the need for asking permission again. Kids congregating in the toilets when they should be in lessons is a perennial problem, but other schools manage it without resorting to restricting access. This rule smacks of desperation and points to a general failure around discipline and pastoral care.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 12 Mar, 2017 7:37 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:One for Eric.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1515 ... n_England/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SNP minister saying their own failings are less than England's failings? Nah, that can't be true

Readers given chance to submit questions to Health Secretary Shona Robison
It'll be interesting to see which questions she chooses to answer!
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/o ... -1-4386231
I hear those bed blockers are still around in Scotland? Weren't they supposed to be gone by now?

The SG has attempted to integrate health and social care - the legislation came into effect last April.

Legislation to implement health and social care integration, passed by the Scottish Parliament in February 2014, came into force on April 1, 2016. This brings together NHS and local council care services under one partnership arrangement for each area.
In total 31 local partnerships have been set up across Scotland and they will manage almost £8 billion of health and social care resources.
Working together, NHS and local council care services will be jointly responsible for the health and care needs of patients, to ensure that those who use services get the right care and support whatever their needs, at any point in their care journey.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Health/Polic ... ntegration

It's probably a bit early to say whether the initiative is successful - especially as both the SNHS and LAs are claiming that their funding has been cut year on year.