Thursday 16th March 2017

Post by **refitman** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 7:12 am

RFM. You're a star.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 7:27 am

#Michael Crick

Conservatives fined £70,000 after Electoral Commission inquiry into election expenses

Commission says Cons party committed 3 breaches and 2 offences under PPERA. One matter referred to Met Police

Electoral Comm says "likely" that Conservative spending returns for three by-elections in 2014 understated spending on those campaigns
Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration
Electoral Commission says Conservative Party did "not co-operate fully" with their enquiries
Electoral Comm says Conservative Party "hindered and caused delay to the investigation"

Electoral Comm doesn't name names but clearly concludes Marion Little, Henry McCrory, Nick Timothy & another adviser worked for MacKinlay

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 32516.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 7:41 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38757708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Four-hour accident and emergency waits rise 300% at some hospitals

Post by **adam** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 8:09 am

HindleA wrote:#Michael Crick

Conservatives fined £70,000 after Electoral Commission inquiry into election expenses

Commission says Cons party committed 3 breaches and 2 offences under PPERA. One matter referred to Met Police

Electoral Comm says "likely" that Conservative spending returns for three by-elections in 2014 understated spending on those campaigns
Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration
Electoral Commission says Conservative Party did "not co-operate fully" with their enquiries
Electoral Comm says Conservative Party "hindered and caused delay to the investigation"

Electoral Comm doesn't name names but clearly concludes Marion Little, Henry McCrory, Nick Timothy & another adviser worked for MacKinlay

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 32516.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is on top of and separate to (although obviously born out of the same issues as) the 12 referrals to the CPS by regional police forces.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 8:23 am

Morning.

You can always rely on Laura:

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"Mistakes". Oh yes. Journalist of the Year, apparently.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:04 am

Morning.

So..."we know we can't win on the evidence so we'll wait until we have a bigger majority"

Grammar schools: Tories could delay vote on ban until after 2020 election

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammar-school ... -election/

A vote to lift the 19-year ban on new grammar schools could be postponed until after the next election to guarantee its passage through parliament, Schools Week understands.

Mounting opposition among Conservative MPs has prompted discussions about whether a vote is needed before May 2020.

One senior Conservative MP told Schools Week that as many as 40 Tory MPs had “serious concerns” about the proposals, which would mean a “very bumpy ride” for any vote.

Those damn lefties!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:04 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

You can always rely on Laura:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Mistakes". Oh yes. Journalist of the Year, apparently.

Pat on the head for Laura.

Glad to hear the BBC giving this story the full 8.10 prime spot. Montague wasn't as Tory pandering as normal.
No sign of blood in the water yet to start the Tory feeding frenzy.
And, morning all. Even to those that peer in.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:12 am

StephenDolan wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

You can always rely on Laura:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Mistakes". Oh yes. Journalist of the Year, apparently.
Pat on the head for Laura.

Glad to hear the BBC giving this story the full 8.10 prime spot. Montague wasn't as Tory pandering as normal.
No sign of blood in the water yet to start the Tory feeding frenzy.
And, morning all. Even to those that peer in.

Good morning from a 'peerer-inner'

The BBC are becoming a bit of a parody now.......so Establishment biased that it is embarrassing - not longer trying to inform, but to cover-up

Well done to C4 News which seems to be the only light in the darkness of UK media....challenging all not just the Opposition

Fortunately for Labour, the SNP are the focus of ire and hatred at the moment....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:15 am

http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-chess-pr ... sciousness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A chess problem holds the key to human consciousness?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:20 am

Who is the opposition?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:22 am

HindleA wrote:http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-chess-pr ... sciousness

A chess problem holds the key to human consciousness?

Odd looking board with three bishops on black! Not impossible of course but odd that black didn't go for an extra queen or two when given the choice.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:23 am

Tweet from that odious individual McTernan

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What does he mean that this is 'a box left unopened' - is he saying that the Labour Party leadership he was a member of were also committing election fraud (apart from that already found)?

The problem I have is that every time there is a glimmer of a position to attack the Tories from it is frequently things from the past come and haunt us. Added to Corbyn's clumsiness at times with the media it doesn't help

You cannot revisit the past but it is a double whammy - someone like McTernan is only to happy to come and criticise the current leadership for what he has done, but when something comes along that dates from before Corbyn's election then he is undermined by what these critics were largely responsible for doing, or supporting.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:23 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-chess-pr ... sciousness

A chess problem holds the key to human consciousness?
Odd looking board with three bishops on black! Not impossible of course but odd that black didn't go for an extra queen or two when given the choice.

One for the site chess master....Mr AK, I think

Post by **adam** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:32 am

If I could make pitch for most miserable sod on the board - a position that I don't expect to take without a fight - I would just like to say that I look forward to seeing a parade of new conservative candidates winning all of the by elections that could conceivably come out of the election expenses 'misunderstanding'.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:39 am

On the Expenses "mistake"

A Conservative party spokesman said the party had complied fully with the commission’s investigation, though the report itself said Conservative campaign headquarters (CCHQ) “did not cooperate fully with the commission’s inquiries” and had at times “hindered and caused delay to the investigation”.

Is this what's known in some quarters as alternative facts?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:41 am

adam wrote:If I could make pitch for most miserable sod on the board - a position that I don't expect to take without a fight - I would just like to say that I look forward to seeing a parade of new conservative candidates winning all of the by elections that could conceivably come out of the election expenses 'misunderstanding'.

They may do but I think there may be some casualties as these tended to be marginal seats

From a Labour point of view there may be meagre pickings but the LD would do well

The likelihood of any by-elections is next to nil I think and the best we can hope for is some bad press for the Tories, which is unlikely if we see the current approach of the BBC

For most people this is a technical offence

What is may do though is provide some help to the LD to take back seats in 2020 and add to a general story of Tory behaviour as the Brexit consequences become more apparent

If the predictions are right we are seeing the best for the Tories...it will only get worse and Labour are already starting to throw some more procedural obstacles in their way in the Lords that will dog them through the process

As always I see the role of Labour at the moment to make things difficult without being seen to be too obstructive. By 2018 I think we will see the need to be more explicit about going back on Brexit as a shambolic story emerges.....it is just not the time for that at the moment

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:42 am

ScarletGas wrote:On the Expenses "mistake"

A Conservative party spokesman said the party had complied fully with the commission’s investigation, though the report itself said Conservative campaign headquarters (CCHQ) “did not cooperate fully with the commission’s inquiries” and had at times “hindered and caused delay to the investigation”.

Is this what's known in some quarters as alternative facts?

I think the technical term is actually 'lying shits'

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:42 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning.

So..."we know we can't win on the evidence so we'll wait until we have a bigger majority"

Grammar schools: Tories could delay vote on ban until after 2020 election

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammar-school ... -election/

A vote to lift the 19-year ban on new grammar schools could be postponed until after the next election to guarantee its passage through parliament, Schools Week understands.

Mounting opposition among Conservative MPs has prompted discussions about whether a vote is needed before May 2020.

One senior Conservative MP told Schools Week that as many as 40 Tory MPs had “serious concerns” about the proposals, which would mean a “very bumpy ride” for any vote.
Those damn lefties!

The 40 will stop the legal ban being lifted? I am impressed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:42 am

Extent of fine was precisely because of lack of cooperation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -to-201516" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Households Below Average Income: 1994/95 to 2015/16

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:43 am

Good-morning.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:46 am

I can't imagine they will though. Will get a promise of no new ones near them.

Post by **adam** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:46 am

HindleA wrote:Extent of fine was precisely because of lack of cooperation.

This is the same investigation that led the Electoral Commission to go to the High Court to force conservative compliance with a request for information, isn't it?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:48 am

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Income growth in 2015–16 modest but widespread, leaving inequality and poverty roughly unchanged

Poverty rates were little changed in 2015–16. But a slight uptick in child poverty, while small at this stage and not statistically significant, is likely to continue as cuts to working-age benefits act to reduce the incomes of low-income households with children.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:49 am

adam wrote:
HindleA wrote:Extent of fine was precisely because of lack of cooperation.
This is the same investigation that led the Electoral Commission to go to the High Court to force conservative compliance with a request for information, isn't it?

I think so, but to be sure I could just go to Laura Kuenssberg where I am sure she will have gone into it in detail, her being a 'Journalist of the Year'

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 9:51 am

And staying with grammar schools...a choice quote from one of my favourites...

'I looked inside the belly of the right-wing pro-grammar school beast. It wasn't pretty'

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... t-it-wasnt

It's easy to forget that there's a whole raft of campaigners out there passionately arguing for more grammar schools. And they're ok with trampling all over comprehensive education while they do it, writes TES's head of content
Last night took me on an unusual mission: to the House of Commons’ Committee Room 16 for a debate on the government’s plans for more grammar schools, organised by website Conservative Woman.

Rarely does a hack on a relatively liberal title get the chance to peer inside the real guts of the nation’s right wing. It is all too easy to see educational debate through a progressive prism: to peek into the social media echo-chamber and to conclude the voices who really believe in broadening out 11+ selection are few and far between.

Last night’s debate soon put pay to that impression: here was a room full of Conservatives and fully signed up members of the Campaign for Real Education (CRE), an organisation often written-off as, well, rather fringe.

and

But the pin-striped crowd hadn’t given up their Tuesday evening to listen to sunny stories of state education. They were here for the red meat of Graham Brady MP – senior Tory backbencher and long-term grammar school advocate – and Chris McGovern, former head and chair of the CRE.

These two took it in turns to make the case for grammar schools by insinuating criticism for the comprehensive system. (Brady: "Comprehensives struggle to get their pupils to achieve the highest grades in the most challenging subjects.")

Perhaps the most outrageous statement came from Mr McGovern, who, unchallenged, explained that the reason more poor kids didn’t go to the existing grammar schools was because “brainwashed primary teachers” refused to enter them for the 11+.

McGovern is beloved by the mail and telegraph who seem to use him at every opportunity...and ignored by everyone else.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:11 am

and this sums up the problem.....there is no real comparison but this is the headline

'Tories claim Labour just as bad at failing to report election spending'

This, and the lack of by-elections stemming from it, will mean it will be turned round with the focus on Labour rather than the real culprits....C4 attempts notwithstanding

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:33 am

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i ... n-expenses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:37 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 9cedc28645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump federal budget 2018: Massive cuts to the arts, science and the poor

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:39 am

HindleA wrote:Extent of fine was precisely because of lack of cooperation.

They should have stuck another 0 on the end.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:55 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:and this sums up the problem.....there is no real comparison but this is the headline

'Tories claim Labour just as bad at failing to report election spending'

This, and the lack of by-elections stemming from it, will mean it will be turned round with the focus on Labour rather than the real culprits....C4 attempts notwithstanding

I am afraid HSOM it is already happening.

On BBC Breakfast this morning Dominic Raab invoked the name of Jeremy Corbyn trying to imply in some way he is responsible. Its clear that CCHQ have instructed that Corbyns name is referred to in every interview as though he is (as one or two on this forum seem to think) responsible for all the ills besetting this nation.

As long as some in the media (see this mornings tweet from LK) and to a lesser extent some on here (who have a perfect right to their opinion just as much as I have a perfect right to disagree) seem to revel in finding lazy one eyed excuses/reasons to blame everything on one man rather than blaming the real culprit (who sometimes is Jeremy Corbyn but very rarely it seems is anything right wing ) then things will not change.

I am far from being (what some disparagingly call) a Corbynista but all I think I am asking for is both here and in the media is a little more balance and thought with sometimes a little more positivity rather than the relentless and totally boring inane negative commentary.

Having got that off my chest I do, however, recognise I am probably shooting for the moon!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:57 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:and this sums up the problem.....there is no real comparison but this is the headline

'Tories claim Labour just as bad at failing to report election spending'

This, and the lack of by-elections stemming from it, will mean it will be turned round with the focus on Labour rather than the real culprits....C4 attempts notwithstanding

Further down in Politics Live (Guardian) it says this -

Tories claim Labour & Lib Dems just as bad at failing to report election spending (my emphasisi)

but that, of course, didn't make it as the headline.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 11:02 am

Nothing to do with politics, but possibly the funniest tweet I've seen all year:

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(You're quite safe, no Tory youth wing or Brexit baby belly)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 11:17 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-chess-pr ... sciousness

A chess problem holds the key to human consciousness?
Odd looking board with three bishops on black! Not impossible of course but odd that black didn't go for an extra queen or two when given the choice.

Chess problem positions are often rather artificial looking - hence many players dismiss them as "it couldn't happen in a game". They have a charm of their own, though.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 11:48 am

gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:Extent of fine was precisely because of lack of cooperation.
They should have stuck another 0 on the end.

I gather they would, if they could - but they can't.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 11:50 am

PorFavor wrote: Further down in Politics Live (Guardian) it says this -

Tories claim Labour & Lib Dems just as bad at failing to report election spending (my emphasisi)
but that, of course, didn't make it as the headline.

Well, the obvious answer to that is "if they were really as bad why aren't they also being investigated?"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 11:57 am

Culture secretary Karen Bradley tells MPs she is referring Murdoch's bid for Sky to Ofcom (Politics Live, Guardian)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 12:28 pm

12:22

There are rumours that Theresa May is about to rule out a second Scottish independence referendum. (Politics Live, Guardian)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 1:10 pm

Not before the Brexit process is concluded, apparently.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 1:26 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/ma ... ament-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tax credit 'rape clause' becomes law without parliamentary vote
Controversial move, which requires woman who had third child as result of rape to verify her position, added to existing act

"there is no indication of how a woman who has been raped could begin the process of claiming the tax credit exemption, or whether any of the third parties has been trained.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 1:35 pm

More on Trump's budget

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... exico-wall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 1:38 pm

Afternoon. Back from swimming with Y5 and before I toddle off to a seminar...

This was from last night's Portes vs Gove debate on experts.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/whats-the-role-of- ... ic-debate/

The text for today’s debate is Michael Gove’s famous interview with Faisal Islam. I know Michael insists that he’s been taken out of context, so I’ll give the quote in full

“I think the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.”
The problem is that Michael is entirely happy to quote exactly those experts from exactly those acronyms when it suits him

Just 3 weeks before the referendum, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, in a joint statement, said:

“The Bank of England has said that a ten per cent rise in the proportion of new people coming here is associated with a two per cent cut in pay for working people”.

The Bank of England was precisely one of the organisations with acronyms that Faisal Islam had cited and that Michael was ridiculing.

But it’s much worse than that. Michael’s statement was correct that the Bank had published a study – by genuine experts on labour markets – on the impact of migration and wages. But his interpretation of that study was from the Daily Express, not from actual experts.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not before the Brexit process is concluded, apparently.

I don't think so - she has said precisely nothing as normal which will allow her to remain ambiguous when questioned in the future

Sturgeon should press on with the vote and push her to come out and say Yes or No - now is not the time says precisely nothing as no-one is proposing 'now' as an option.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 1:54 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Culture secretary Karen Bradley tells MPs she is referring Murdoch's bid for Sky to Ofcom (Politics Live, Guardian)

Is this yet another example of Labour "providing absolutely no opposition", I wonder?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 2:08 pm

Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm)

I'd imagine @NicolaSturgeon quite happy for Theresa May to play into her hands by trying to block #indyref2 - will help the yes vote
March 16, 2017

Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm)

Even stranger that May's statement suggests she accepts Scots could get to judge her Brexit negotiation. rest of UK might argue the same.
March 16, 2017

(Politics Live, Guardian)

Post by **adam** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 2:55 pm

This all seems politically catastrophic from May - she seems to be doing everything she can to firstly say that her EU negotiations are too fragile to take any risks with and, secondly and more seriously, to build and maximise support for Scottish independence.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 3:08 pm

Though if you want to take a more optimistic position, Scots voting on independence after the deal is done might be something counting against a potentially disastrous "hard" or "WTO-only" Brexit. I know a lot of Tories now are de facto English nationalists who don't care much about the union, but does May want to be the PM who saw its demise any more than Cameron did?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 3:11 pm

Response to SSAC now up from Mordaunt re pip

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... espondence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 3:13 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Though if you want to take a more optimistic position, Scots voting on independence after the deal is done might be something counting against a potentially disastrous "hard" or "WTO-only" Brexit. I know a lot of Tories now are de facto English nationalists who don't care much about the union, but does May want to be the PM who saw its demise any more than Cameron did?

(cJA emphasis)

Yes, apparently she does. She's PM and Cameron isn't. Her actions and words suggest she's a dogmatic, authoritarian, incompetent person. Her front bench Home Office minister years demonstrate inhumanity and inefficacy.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Mar, 2017 3:14 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... gures-show" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Child poverty in UK at highest level since 2010, official figures show