Tuesday 21st March 2017

Post by **refitman** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:30 am

Spirits high this morning?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 7:47 am

Morning all.

I'm expecting plenty of IRA referencing on TV, radio and postings today. Not so much about the good Friday agreement, lots of Corbyn.

Anyway. Hope you all have a good day.

Post by **adam** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:13 am

Here is a bit more from Colin Parry whose son Tim died in a IRA bomb in Warrington in 1993.

“I don’t forgive the IRA, nor does my wife, nor do my children,” he told the BBC. “But, setting aside forgiveness, the simple fact is I found Martin McGuinness an easy and pleasant man to talk to - a man who I believe was sincere in his desire for peace, for maintaining the peace process at all costs.

And I think he deserves great credit for his most recent life rather than more than his earlier life, for which I don’t think anything in his most recent life can atone.

That said, he was still a brave man, who put himself at some risk within some elements of his own community in Northern Ireland.”

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:27 am

Morning.

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Yup.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:36 am

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I'm going to donate my swear box to Comic Relief.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:41 am

Morning all. School today from morning 'til evening but will pop back late morning to see what's occurring.

NonOxCol wrote:

I'm going to donate my swear box to Comic Relief.

The letter, which was also copied to the incoming chair of the BBC Board Sir David Clementi, did not include any specific examples.

Shocked etc.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:25 am

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... ganda.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post-truth and propaganda

Mainlymacro

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:58 am

Inflation on the move. Just in time for the April pay changes.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:01 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-h ... nuary-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK House Price Index (HPI) for January 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:04 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... s-bulletin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Public sector finances bulletin

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:13 am

Always in good spirits.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:15 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-h ... nuary-2017

UK House Price Index (HPI) for January 2017

Thanks for the info.

Volume is dropping quite sharpish, new builds (help to buy?) the exception.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:25 am

Two differing reactions on the death of Martin McGuinness both from Andrew Sparrows blog.

Firstly Lord Tebbit
Lord Tebbit, the former Conservative party chairman whose wife Margaret was paralysed when the IRA bombed the Grand Hotel in Brighton during the Conservative party conference, and who was injured himself by the attack, has welcomed McGuinness’s death. He told the Press Association:

I’m just pleased that the world is a sweeter and cleaner place now.
He was not only a multi-murderer, he was a coward.
He knew that the IRA were defeated because British intelligence had penetrated right the way up to the army council and that the end was coming.
He then sought to save his own skin and he knew that it was likely he would be charged before long with several murders which he had personally committed and he decided that the only thing to do was to opt for peace.
He claimed to be a Roman Catholic.
I hope that his beliefs turn out to be true and he’ll be parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity.
Tebbit said he refused to forgive McGuinness for his terrorist past because “forgiveness requires confession of sins and repentance”.
“There was none of that,” Tebbit added

Now Colin Parry
Here is a bit more from Colin Parry whose son Tim died in a IRA bomb in Warrington in 1993.
“I don’t forgive the IRA, nor does my wife, nor do my children,” he told the BBC. “But, setting aside forgiveness, the simple fact is I found Martin McGuinness an easy and pleasant man to talk to – a man who I believe was sincere in his desire for peace, for maintaining the peace process at all costs.
“And I think he deserves great credit for his most recent life rather than more than his earlier life, for which I don’t think anything in his most recent life can atone.
That said, he was still a brave man, who put himself at some risk within some elements of his own community in Northern Ireland.”

Whatever your views on the Northern Ireland troubles (and I do not know enough about them to volunteer a comment) both had loved ones maimed and/or killed by the IRA so can understand the emotion in both statements.

What is interesting to me (and, for me, shows the paucity of quality of our current political class) is the differing reactions to McGuinness death.

One a dreadfully negative and self serving reaction which (in my view) only concentrates on the (admittedly unforgivable) actions of his paramilitary career and does nothing to recognise the positive influence and actions of later years. The other a wonderfully controlled mostly positive comment illustrating a personal hurt for which forgiveness is not offered but a recognition of McGuinness work for peace in his later life.

I am sure that Parry has, through his charity efforts since the loss of his son, in his own quiet and understated way achieved much more for peace and the goodwill of "common people" than an old warmonger like Tebbit has ever achieved in his sadly much publicised political career.

What a sour and bitter man Tebbit must be.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:29 am

Good-morning, all

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:43 am

So the Brexiteers are whining about the Beeb - what a huge shock.....

To my mind, they were all over every flipping channel, tainting opinions with their hot-headedness. I don't recall the Remainers getting the same coverage.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:50 am

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If I didn't already do so, this tweet would make me utterly despise McCluskey. He's a contemptible creep.

Post by **adam** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:55 am

pk1 wrote:So the Brexiteers are whining about the Beeb - what a huge shock.....

To my mind, they were all over every flipping channel, tainting opinions with their hot-headedness. I don't recall the Remainers getting the same coverage.

It reminds me of an old Steve Bell 'If...' cartoon - Women with fur coats, hats and shares in the defense industry for Cruise and Trident'

"people who don't like the remain campaign and can't see any reason for anyone to disagree with them upset about BBC sometimes presenting alternate point of view'

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 11:07 am

Good of Galloway to put himself forward for the upcoming by-election. SMH.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 11:19 am

adam wrote:
pk1 wrote:So the Brexiteers are whining about the Beeb - what a huge shock.....

To my mind, they were all over every flipping channel, tainting opinions with their hot-headedness. I don't recall the Remainers getting the same coverage.
It reminds me of an old Steve Bell 'If...' cartoon - Women with fur coats, hats and shares in the defense industry for Cruise and Trident'

"people who don't like the remain campaign and can't see any reason for anyone to disagree with them upset about BBC sometimes presenting alternate point of view'

Pretty much sums up the rabid right's entire modus operandi with regard to representing the BBC as "lefty". Except that the BBC really has long since appeased them on that one.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 11:24 am

Good morfternoon.

George Galloway to stand in Manchester Gorton byelection

Last modified on Tuesday 21 March 2017 11.22 GMT

George Galloway has confirmed he will stand in the Manchester Gorton byelection in an attempt to take votes from a divided local Labour party and re-enter parliament. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... byelection

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:04 pm

pk1 wrote:

If I didn't already do so, this tweet would make me utterly despise McCluskey. He's a contemptible creep.

Not exactly his strong suit either? He's rewritten the election timetable around propping up Corbyn.

But Coyne is a Kipper fool. I'd have to vote for the 3rd guy. Leftwing but defends freedom of movement.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:08 pm

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Get your priorities straight.

Vellum > Economic ruin

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:13 pm

Fuck off, George Galloway, you rape apologising chancer.

Hope you do as well as you did in London where you kept banging on about Zionism.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:15 pm

Inflation 2.3%.

Bloody Project Fear.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:49 pm

pk1 wrote:

If I didn't already do so, this tweet would make me utterly despise McCluskey. He's a contemptible creep.

Coyne is an absolutely terrible candidate, nonetheless.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:17 pm

McCluskey on Watson, fairly fruity

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/len-mcc ... 1490096318&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From an Evil Blairite perspective, there is a certain pleasure to seeing these two at each other's throats of course.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:31 pm

And I can cut even Lord Tebbit some slack on how he feels today, whilst also observing that others similarly tragically affected were ultimately able to forgive (if not forget)

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:08 pm

Housing Benefit – 94% not on the dole and other facts.

https://speye.wordpress.com/2017/03/21/ ... her-facts/

Did you know the bedroom tax etc increased the HB bill by over £1bn?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:16 pm

As for Galloway, he was previously hinting he wouldn't stand if Labour picked a BAME candidate. As trustworthy as ever, then.

Post by **adam** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:29 pm

Following on from yesterday about the FBI investigating Russia's role in the election - today's news says that this investigation was going on before the election - contemporaneous the investigation into Clinton's emails - but for some reason it was decided that it was necessary to publish the fact that Clinton's emails were being investigated, but not the Trump teams' connections with Russia.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:41 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
pk1 wrote:

If I didn't already do so, this tweet would make me utterly despise McCluskey. He's a contemptible creep.
Coyne is an absolutely terrible candidate, nonetheless.

.

My comment has nothing to do with Coyne though. I cancelled my Unite membership in 2013 when McCluskey threatened to pull funding to the Labour party if Ed didn't do as McCluskey demanded.

I will not support nor give my hard-earned cash to any organisation headed up by a bully.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:As for Galloway, he was previously hinting he wouldn't stand if Labour picked a BAME candidate. As trustworthy as ever, then.

Farage basically outsourced to Galloway the job of being Brexit's down with the Asians guy. A complete load of crap was spun about how Brexit would stop Asians being discriminated against with work visas.

I hope Galloway gets a lot of Asian doors shut in his face.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:53 pm

adam wrote:Following on from yesterday about the FBI investigating Russia's role in the election - today's news says that this investigation was going on before the election - contemporaneous the investigation into Clinton's emails - but for some reason it was decided that it was necessary to publish the fact that Clinton's emails were being investigated, but not the Trump teams' connections with Russia.

But but but neo-liberal Democrats lost because popular revolt against failed system.

Looks increasingly like the FBI mucked up and treated the Democrats incredibly unfairly. That and a freakish electoral system where they lost with 2.9m more votes.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:53 pm

RIP Colin Dexter.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:55 pm

I hope Galloway's treatment of Sadiq Khan gets chucked in face too.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:03 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
adam wrote:
pk1 wrote:So the Brexiteers are whining about the Beeb - what a huge shock.....

To my mind, they were all over every flipping channel, tainting opinions with their hot-headedness. I don't recall the Remainers getting the same coverage.
It reminds me of an old Steve Bell 'If...' cartoon - Women with fur coats, hats and shares in the defense industry for Cruise and Trident'

"people who don't like the remain campaign and can't see any reason for anyone to disagree with them upset about BBC sometimes presenting alternate point of view'
Pretty much sums up the rabid right's entire modus operandi with regard to representing the BBC as "lefty". Except that the BBC really has long since appeased them on that one.

Its pretty much certain these are the same usual suspects/hypocrites who would have lined up behind Osborne yesterday to contend that it was perfectly OK for a conservative MP espouse his own slanted view of the world in a right wing propaganda rag. I wonder what their view would have been if this had related to an MP of any other party.(you don't have to answer that!) This in a time of the merging of opinion and fact in newspapers as well as the usual "post truths" and "fake news"

On Kate Hoey WTF!! How did she ever get to be a member of the Labour party?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:03 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
adam wrote:Following on from yesterday about the FBI investigating Russia's role in the election - today's news says that this investigation was going on before the election - contemporaneous the investigation into Clinton's emails - but for some reason it was decided that it was necessary to publish the fact that Clinton's emails were being investigated, but not the Trump teams' connections with Russia.
But but but neo-liberal Democrats lost because popular revolt against failed system.

Looks increasingly like the FBI mucked up and treated the Democrats incredibly unfairly. That and a freakish electoral system where they lost with 2.9m more votes.

Fact is that HRC still lost to an orange painted crypto-fascist clown. She should have buried him in the way LBJ did Goldwater in 1964.

All else is excuses.

(which is not denying that Comey in particular behaved pretty outrageously)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:07 pm

@GetYou the costs of the bedroom tax are incalcuable,vast amounts in legal fees,cost saving arrangements foregone etc.No money spared in the pursuit of misanthropy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:10 pm

Christ, look at this shite. Trump ran on a "left of centre" platform, and "the Israel Lobby" are unhappy with Trump, says Galloway.

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:21 pm

ScarletGas wrote: On Kate Hoey WTF!! How did she ever get to be a member of the Labour party?

Because she *was* left wing once - actually appeared on that infamous "101 Damnations" list during the 1987 GE campaign.

And going back even before that, a genuine Trot (who actually favoured a united Ireland!!)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:26 pm

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... ard-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fresh polling shows Britain doesn't want a hard Brexit

And Labour supporters surely want it far less than average. What's Corbyn waiting for? He should have done his own polling of this, instead of polling what people think of Rebecca Long-Bailey.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:26 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ, look at this shite. Trump ran on a "left of centre" platform, and "the Israel Lobby" are unhappy with Trump.

Galloway. Nuff said.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:30 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... ard-brexit

Fresh polling shows Britain doesn't want a hard Brexit
And Labour supporters surely want it far less than average. What's Corbyn waiting for? He should have done his own polling of this, instead of polling what people think of Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Don't parties poll all the time on a number of topics? Ditto focus groups? Try out lines, phrases, attempt to detect trends in public opinion to specific topics?

Is this approach old hat, never taken, too expensive etc?

(Switches on the AK signal searchlight

)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:36 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
adam wrote:Following on from yesterday about the FBI investigating Russia's role in the election - today's news says that this investigation was going on before the election - contemporaneous the investigation into Clinton's emails - but for some reason it was decided that it was necessary to publish the fact that Clinton's emails were being investigated, but not the Trump teams' connections with Russia.
But but but neo-liberal Democrats lost because popular revolt against failed system.

Looks increasingly like the FBI mucked up and treated the Democrats incredibly unfairly. That and a freakish electoral system where they lost with 2.9m more votes.
Fact is that HRC still lost to an orange painted crypto-fascist clown. She should have buried him in the way LBJ did Goldwater in 1964.

All else is excuses.

(which is not denying that Comey in particular behaved pretty outrageously)

I agree with that. Joe Biden would have won by a mile.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:41 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... ard-brexit

Fresh polling shows Britain doesn't want a hard Brexit
And Labour supporters surely want it far less than average. What's Corbyn waiting for? He should have done his own polling of this, instead of polling what people think of Rebecca Long-Bailey.
Don't parties poll all the time on a number of topics? Ditto focus groups? Try out lines, phrases, attempt to detect trends in public opinion to specific topics?

Is this approach old hat, never taken, too expensive etc?

(Switches on the AK signal searchlight )

I'm sure they do. Labour ought to be picking this stuff up before it happens.

It isn't too late, by any means, but as others have been saying today, he doesn't seem to have got non-tariff barriers properly.

Soft Brexit (you can argue it with an immigration brake too, if you want to cover that flank) joins everything up- the economy, Scotland, UK's dented public image.

Lots of (pre 2015) will have voted for Corbyn as a break from sterile Spads. He's done some good on that front, but as David Blanchflower said, if you come from there, you've got to learn fast, and he isn't.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:42 pm

Palmer Report‏ @PalmerReport 2h2 hours ago
FBI now investigating Breitbart and InfoWars as part of its probe into Donald Trump and Russi

Oh dear. Mr Bannon could be in trouble.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:44 pm

Brexit study shows we want free trade as well as immigration control

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-control" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a sad reflection on both our media and our politicians that people actually think this possible in any meaningful sense.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:49 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ScarletGas wrote: On Kate Hoey WTF!! How did she ever get to be a member of the Labour party?
Because she *was* left wing once - actually appeared on that infamous "101 Damnations" list during the 1987 GE campaign.

And going back even before that, a genuine Trot (who actually favoured a united Ireland!!)

Thanks for the information.

I can only say that is a very long (and in my view totally illogical) journey from where she was to where she is today!

Still as they say each to their own.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:17 pm

Sturgeon apparently trying to misrepresent the Barnett Formula as money Scotland sends and gets back yesterday.

I'll believe the high opinion Scottish Nationalism has of itself once its leader stops lying to increase hostility to the UK.