Friday 7th April 2017

[Temulkar]

"There's an organization that makes countries do exactly what he wants- sit down and avoid conflict by diplomacy. Shame he didn't give it his full support, eh? But he isn't the issue here."

Yeah there is, its called the United Nations... show me where corbyn has ever suggested not working through it??

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see great reason to doubt what the Russians say, because they're strongman liars who are never going to admit someone's thrown a spanner in their works.

Of course I didn't suggest you got it off Russia Today.

[Temulkar]

I see the Associated Press are parroting Putin now, bloody StW sympathizers and Putin bots. How dare they haven't they heard Tubby's pronouncement that to report on a Russian statement is tantamount to treason against NATO????

The Associated Press‏
Verified account
@AP 5h
5 hours ago

BREAKING: Russian military says it will help Syria strengthen its air defenses after US strike.

[Tubby Isaacs]

"There's an organization that makes countries do exactly what he wants- sit down and avoid conflict by diplomacy. Shame he didn't give it his full support, eh? But he isn't the issue here."

Yeah there is, its called the United Nations... show me where corbyn has ever suggested not working through it??

I was thinking of the EU, but that was a capitalist plot, because Tony Benn said so.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Above, I think that it is clear, via trustworthy third parties that Assad's regime launched the attack. Pretending otherwise is pretty naughty as it gives political cover to actual child murderers.

If somebody outside the official chain of command authorised the strike (hugely unlikely) they are probably already dead.

Do you have a source for the trustworthy TE? Genuine question not a snarky one btw - I have people assuring me it was Erdogan, and am finding it hard to penetrate the fog of war.

Here is a view.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... -accident/

The reports all indicate air strikes and come from monitors and eye witnesses. Turkey isn't flying much in Syria so those are Syrian aircraft.

The risks of getting caught would massively outweigh any marginal benefit Erdogan would get, and US intervention has largely used the Kurds as their force proxy, not something Erdogan would welcome.

Location, delivery mechanism, agent used, witness reports all point to Assad.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see the Associated Press are parroting Putin now, bloody StW sympathizers and Putin bots. How dare they haven't they heard Tubby's pronouncement that to report on a Russian statement is tantamount to treason against NATO????

The Associated Press‏
Verified account
@AP 5h
5 hours ago

BREAKING: Russian military says it will help Syria strengthen its air defenses after US strike.

They're reporting what Russia said it will do. You weren't doing that. You were offering what the Russians said as evidence it had been a complete failure because that's what you always think, and citing strongman liars to prove you're always right is a nice easy short cut.

[Temulkar]

I see great reason to doubt what the Russians say, because they're strongman liars who are never going to admit someone's thrown a spanner in their works.

Of course I didn't suggest you got it off Russia Today.

"How unlike you to read out the Russian press release. More reliable than the "MSM", I'm sure."

Your exact words. I mean the bare faced cheek of that duplicitous lie is Trumpian in its audacity, you only said that a page ago, and now claim I didnt get it from Russia today, no you damn well claimed I read out a Russian press release, instead, you cretin.

[howsillyofme1]

"There's an organization that makes countries do exactly what he wants- sit down and avoid conflict by diplomacy. Shame he didn't give it his full support, eh? But he isn't the issue here."

Yeah there is, its called the United Nations... show me where corbyn has ever suggested not working through it??

I was thinking of the EU, but that was a capitalist plot, because Tony Benn said so.

Not sure EU would have much of a credible role here (perhaps better now UK on way out)

Corbyn supports EU more than the current Government so the point made is pretty irrelevant I suggest

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think "the Russians say" is you parroting what the Russians say, because you just said the Russians said it. and took it at face value. I mean, they're not a bunch of fascist liars, are they?

I wasn't thinking of Corbyn, I was thinking of you. As it happens, I prefer Corbyn being cautious to people rushing in like Watson, but I don't think everybody who thinks like Watson are "child murderers" and "warmongers", there being a war already. But that's why you remind me of Stop the War. The focus on opponents motives and morals.

I don't find Corbyn convincing on foreign policy, as I've said before. There's an organization that makes countries do exactly what he wants- sit down and avoid conflict by diplomacy. Shame he didn't give it his full support, eh? But he isn't the issue here.

Wasn't Tem saying 'the Russians say' in relation to their statement that they will upgrade Syria's air defences? Not in any way the same as 'the Russians say it wasn't Assad'. No reason to disbelieve Russia on this point is there?

He was doing more than that. He was citing it as a way of saying "see, it's completely failed, useless, thick warmongers"

I think it's well worth considering that they're actually thinking "this is a right nuisance to us and our ally, we've now got to spend a lot of effort doing something we didn't think we'd have to".

[Tubby Isaacs]

"There's an organization that makes countries do exactly what he wants- sit down and avoid conflict by diplomacy. Shame he didn't give it his full support, eh? But he isn't the issue here."

Yeah there is, its called the United Nations... show me where corbyn has ever suggested not working through it??

I was thinking of the EU, but that was a capitalist plot, because Tony Benn said so.

Not sure EU would have much of a credible role here (perhaps better now UK on way out)

Corbyn supports EU more than the current Government so the point made is pretty irrelevant I suggest

I'm not judging him against the current government, and I accept he's got better on the issue. But his historical commitment to it has been very weak, even though an important part of it has been the peace.

Of course, I'm not blaming Corbyn for the idiot talk coming out of parts of Britain re Spain now, but I think it illustrates a point about the EU and peace.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see great reason to doubt what the Russians say, because they're strongman liars who are never going to admit someone's thrown a spanner in their works.

Of course I didn't suggest you got it off Russia Today.

"How unlike you to read out the Russian press release. More reliable than the "MSM", I'm sure."

Your exact words. I mean the bare faced cheek of that duplicitous lie is Trumpian in its audacity, you only said that a page ago, and now claim I didnt get it from Russia today, no you damn well claimed I read out a Russian press release, instead, you cretin.

Here's a word for you.

Metaphor.

I also said parrot. But I wasn't calling you a parrot. Wherever you read it, you're taking Russia at face value.

[Temulkar]

I see the Associated Press are parroting Putin now, bloody StW sympathizers and Putin bots. How dare they haven't they heard Tubby's pronouncement that to report on a Russian statement is tantamount to treason against NATO????

The Associated Press‏
Verified account
@AP 5h
5 hours ago

BREAKING: Russian military says it will help Syria strengthen its air defenses after US strike.

They're reporting what Russia said it will do. You weren't doing that. You were offering what the Russians said as evidence it had been a complete failure because that's what you always think, and citing strongman liars to prove you're always right is a nice easy short cut.

No I didnt that is complete nonsensical bullshit again. the only information that came from russia is the statement that they will upgrade air defences, the rest comes from the MSM, and that snippet comes from the MSM, my statement

2. The Russians have stated that they will upgrade Syrian air defence in response.

Is exactly the same statement that the AP made. there is no difference, I have even said 'the russians have stated.'

I urge anyone reading to look at the AP statement and mine side by side and find any material difference between them

AP: Russian military says it will help Syria strengthen its air defenses after US strike. Me: The Russians have stated that they will upgrade Syrian air defence in response.

Your own words are here in this thread, so are mine, you cant write one thing and pretend you didnt, it's there in glorious Technicolor on our monitors.

[Temulkar]

I see great reason to doubt what the Russians say, because they're strongman liars who are never going to admit someone's thrown a spanner in their works.

Of course I didn't suggest you got it off Russia Today.

"How unlike you to read out the Russian press release. More reliable than the "MSM", I'm sure."

Your exact words. I mean the bare faced cheek of that duplicitous lie is Trumpian in its audacity, you only said that a page ago, and now claim I didnt get it from Russia today, no you damn well claimed I read out a Russian press release, instead, you cretin.

Here's a word for you.

Metaphor.

I also said parrot. But I wasn't calling you a parrot. Wherever you read it, you're taking Russia at face value.

Your a liar, your words are here in the thread and in my posts for anyone to read. Its pathetic behaviour.

[Temulkar]

I think "the Russians say" is you parroting what the Russians say, because you just said the Russians said it. and took it at face value. I mean, they're not a bunch of fascist liars, are they?

I wasn't thinking of Corbyn, I was thinking of you. As it happens, I prefer Corbyn being cautious to people rushing in like Watson, but I don't think everybody who thinks like Watson are "child murderers" and "warmongers", there being a war already. But that's why you remind me of Stop the War. The focus on opponents motives and morals.

I don't find Corbyn convincing on foreign policy, as I've said before. There's an organization that makes countries do exactly what he wants- sit down and avoid conflict by diplomacy. Shame he didn't give it his full support, eh? But he isn't the issue here.

Wasn't Tem saying 'the Russians say' in relation to their statement that they will upgrade Syria's air defences? Not in any way the same as 'the Russians say it wasn't Assad'. No reason to disbelieve Russia on this point is there?

He was doing more than that. He was citing it as a way of saying "see, it's completely failed, useless, thick warmongers"

I think it's well worth considering that they're actually thinking "this is a right nuisance to us and our ally, we've now got to spend a lot of effort doing something we didn't think we'd have to".

Complete bullshit. I made factual statements that are sourced from the msm. I dont deny Syria's responsibility for the attack, never ever have, it is pretty clear it was them or forces linked to them. As for its completely failed, I said I would hold up my hand and admit gladly if I was wrong. In this thread you have been demonstrably proven wrong and deceitful, yet I am still awaiting your admission.

[Temulkar]

I see great reason to doubt what the Russians say, because they're strongman liars who are never going to admit someone's thrown a spanner in their works.

Of course I didn't suggest you got it off Russia Today.

"How unlike you to read out the Russian press release. More reliable than the "MSM", I'm sure."

Your exact words. I mean the bare faced cheek of that duplicitous lie is Trumpian in its audacity, you only said that a page ago, and now claim I didnt get it from Russia today, no you damn well claimed I read out a Russian press release, instead, you cretin.

Here's a word for you.

Metaphor.

I also said parrot. But I wasn't calling you a parrot. Wherever you read it, you're taking Russia at face value.

First you 'never said' it, now its a 'metaphor'. You're a liar, that's what we call a fact.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bollocks. You're doing what you always do. Accuse opponents of killing kids for fun.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I thought you understood obvious metaphors as metaphors.

My mistake, Mr Logic.

[SpinningHugo]

Your a liar, your words are here in the thread and in my posts for anyone to read. Its pathetic behaviour.

"You're" "It's"

Tem, I think what you were being accused of is is taking a view too close to that outwardly adopted by Putin. Whether you formed this view independently of rt.com is not really the point.

I'd suggest that prominent politicians saying that "somebody" is responsible for a chemical attack in Syria are also taking the (wholly implausible) Russian line

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whether they formed that view independently of reading rt.com is not really what is problematic about it.

[Temulkar]

Bollocks. You're doing what you always do. Accuse opponents of killing kids for fun.

No, Im accusing you of lying about statements I have made, something that you are compounding with every post.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Now now, I was just going to say that this had been quite a good natured conversation today given the rather controversial subject.......

[howsillyofme1]

I'm not judging him against the current government, and I accept he's got better on the issue. But his historical commitment to it has been very weak, even though an important part of it has been the peace.

Of course, I'm not blaming Corbyn for the idiot talk coming out of parts of Britain re Spain now, but I think it illustrates a point about the EU and peace.

I was just saying that Corbyn's past views on the EU are completely irrelevant to events of today and, in any case, the EU is a mere bystander in all this

I think those who have welcomed the strikes should just take a step back and reflect on what Trump getting militarily involved may mean. Is he a man who will hold his hand if Assad continues or will he keep escalating?

That is why I am worried and am also why I think those who criticise those of us who don't jump to support are acting a bit prematurely

[Temulkar]

I thought you understood obvious metaphors as metaphors.

My mistake, Mr Logic.

You didn't say it was a metaphor until you were faced with your exact words. Until that point you were insistent that you didnt say anything. When you say one thing and then claim that you didn't say it that's called 'lying,' when you then say actually it was a metaphor, because you are proven to have said what you initially claimed you didnt, well, that's called childish bullshit compounding your lie.

Its all here in the thread. every word both of us have written.

You accused me of reading a Russian press release, you were wrong, you know you were wrong, I know you were wrong, everybody reading here knows that you were wrong.

[Temulkar]

Now now, I was just going to say that this had been quite a good natured conversation today given the rather controversial subject.......

Then the mods should bloody well step in. I was accused of something I didnt do, and the accuser has now lied about it, and then claimed it was a fucking metaphor.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm not judging him against the current government, and I accept he's got better on the issue. But his historical commitment to it has been very weak, even though an important part of it has been the peace.

Of course, I'm not blaming Corbyn for the idiot talk coming out of parts of Britain re Spain now, but I think it illustrates a point about the EU and peace.

I was just saying that Corbyn's past views on the EU are completely irrelevant to events of today and, in any case, the EU is a mere bystander in all this

I think those who have welcomed the strikes should just take a step back and reflect on what Trump getting militarily involved may mean. Is he a man who will hold his hand if Assad continues or will he keep escalating?

That is why I am worried and am also why I think those who criticise those of us who don't jump to support are acting a bit prematurely

I wasn't criticizing people who don't support, I was objecting very strongly to one person who does what he always does when he comes here.

I'm fine with Corbyn being cautious here.

[Temulkar]

And it looks like it may not even have deterred from more chem attacks.

Rebeccariots2
APRIL 7, 2017 AT 4:21 PM
Follow
Joss Garman ✔ @jossgarman
Reports of new Assad chemical attacks. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
5:16 PM - 7 Apr 2017
12 12 Retweets 2 2 likes
Charles Lister‏Verified account
@Charles_Lister
Replying to @Charles_Lister @washingtonpost
Widespread reports of multiple chlorine bombs dropped on areas of East Ghouta outside #Damascus.

[Temulkar]

I'm not judging him against the current government, and I accept he's got better on the issue. But his historical commitment to it has been very weak, even though an important part of it has been the peace.

Of course, I'm not blaming Corbyn for the idiot talk coming out of parts of Britain re Spain now, but I think it illustrates a point about the EU and peace.

I was just saying that Corbyn's past views on the EU are completely irrelevant to events of today and, in any case, the EU is a mere bystander in all this

I think those who have welcomed the strikes should just take a step back and reflect on what Trump getting militarily involved may mean. Is he a man who will hold his hand if Assad continues or will he keep escalating?

That is why I am worried and am also why I think those who criticise those of us who don't jump to support are acting a bit prematurely

I wasn't criticizing people who don't support, I was objecting very strongly to one person who does what he always does when he comes here.

I'm fine with Corbyn being cautious here.

No, you chose to attack me spuriously cos you dont like me, or what I say. I didnt attack anyone on this forum, my post wasn't inn reply to you or anyone else. it was a statement of four verifiable facts sourced from the MSM, and my interpretation.

I mean at least show some fucking backbone and admit you were wrong, that is what is really the most abjectly pathetic thing today. I wasnt picking a fight, you chose to attack, you were wrong, admit it.

[howsillyofme1]

I'm not judging him against the current government, and I accept he's got better on the issue. But his historical commitment to it has been very weak, even though an important part of it has been the peace.

Of course, I'm not blaming Corbyn for the idiot talk coming out of parts of Britain re Spain now, but I think it illustrates a point about the EU and peace.

I was just saying that Corbyn's past views on the EU are completely irrelevant to events of today and, in any case, the EU is a mere bystander in all this

I think those who have welcomed the strikes should just take a step back and reflect on what Trump getting militarily involved may mean. Is he a man who will hold his hand if Assad continues or will he keep escalating?

That is why I am worried and am also why I think those who criticise those of us who don't jump to support are acting a bit prematurely

I wasn't criticizing people who don't support, I was objecting very strongly to one person who does what he always does when he comes here.

I'm fine with Corbyn being cautious here.

I know you weren't criticising - there have only been a couple of people on here who have taken that position unequivocally, one who explained why in a clear way (although I do not necessarily agree), and another who just posted complete tosh....just like he always does when he posts here (far too frequently)

[Temulkar]

I see the Guardian is now parroting Putin's propaganda about improving air defences. Damn these fake news sites....

[TechnicalEphemera]

Your a liar, your words are here in the thread and in my posts for anyone to read. Its pathetic behaviour.

"You're" "It's"

Tem, I think what you were being accused of is is taking a view too close to that outwardly adopted by Putin. Whether you formed this view independently of rt.com is not really the point.

I'd suggest that prominent politicians saying that "somebody" is responsible for a chemical attack in Syria are also taking the (wholly implausible) Russian line

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whether they formed that view independently of reading rt.com is not really what is problematic about it.

Commenting only on the Corbyn tweet, I find that shocking. We don't need a UN investigation into responsibility, to claim we do is really endorsing Russian propaganda.

I assume arch Russian apologist Milne is responsible.

[Tubby Isaacs]

No, you chose to attack me spuriously cos you dont like me, or what I say. I didnt attack anyone on this forum, my post wasn't inn reply to you or anyone else. it was a statement of four verifiable facts sourced from the MSM, and my interpretation.

I mean at least show some fucking backbone and admit you were wrong, that is what is really the most abjectly pathetic thing today. I wasnt picking a fight, you chose to attack, you were wrong, admit it.

And my post wasn't in reply to you there.

I don't like you, no, because I've had you steam into me too many times.

But I will apologize this time. SH understood me by the look of it, but I can see it wasn't clear and too strong.

Sorry.

[seeingclearly]

Hi. I just got back in and saw your question. This was airstrikes on Isis in Syria, following the terrorist attacks in Paris. It was just about crossing the border into Syria from Iraq, as you say, but Cameron actually won the vote. Corbyn opposed because he's a pacifist. Hilary Benn was for supporting the government and quite a few Labour MPs voted for it, reasonably enough imo, although Benn was a bit of an arse with his ott speech in the debate. Cameron tried to pretend he had been right in 2013 and winning the vote in 2015 was vindication of this, but how winning a vote to bomb Isis vindicates an earlier rejected proposal to bomb Assad is beyond me. The press lapped it up, of course and Cameron was the main man for all of a few months until the debacle that was the EU referendum.

Thank you. I do remember this. And Benns speech. It all came to nothing and really is irrelevant to todays action. Thanks for making that clear.

[HindleA]

No such moral quandary in upcoming elections for me


Fascist
Fascist Lite
The Party Previously Known as the Fascist Lite Enablers(Amnesia Section)
Helpful neighbour

I will use my six votes,as ever,wisely.


No Green candidate(indeed in whole equivalent District Council area,which I found surprising)

[Temulkar]

When we found the evidence of the holocaust, we didnt need an investigation into responsibility, it was obvious. Yet we had an investigation, we had court cases, and we brought most of the perpetrators to justice. We could have just stuck them up against a wall and shot them out of hand, Stalin and Eisenhower both suggested it over dinner on at least one occasion. Instead we chose the rule of law, not the rule of vendetta.

You defeat barbarity with civilization, not by barbarising yourself.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Your a liar, your words are here in the thread and in my posts for anyone to read. Its pathetic behaviour.

"You're" "It's"

Tem, I think what you were being accused of is is taking a view too close to that outwardly adopted by Putin. Whether you formed this view independently of rt.com is not really the point.

I'd suggest that prominent politicians saying that "somebody" is responsible for a chemical attack in Syria are also taking the (wholly implausible) Russian line

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whether they formed that view independently of reading rt.com is not really what is problematic about it.

Commenting only on the Corbyn tweet, I find that shocking. We don't need a UN investigation into responsibility, to claim we do is really endorsing Russian propaganda.

I assume arch Russian apologist Milne is responsible.

It could be, but equally people who don't see the world as Milne does, could see it as a useful exercise, chapter and verse etc.

[howsillyofme1]

Your a liar, your words are here in the thread and in my posts for anyone to read. Its pathetic behaviour.

"You're" "It's"

Tem, I think what you were being accused of is is taking a view too close to that outwardly adopted by Putin. Whether you formed this view independently of rt.com is not really the point.

I'd suggest that prominent politicians saying that "somebody" is responsible for a chemical attack in Syria are also taking the (wholly implausible) Russian line

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whether they formed that view independently of reading rt.com is not really what is problematic about it.

Commenting only on the Corbyn tweet, I find that shocking. We don't need a UN investigation into responsibility, to claim we do is really endorsing Russian propaganda.

I assume arch Russian apologist Milne is responsible.

I don't find it shocking you find something shocking in a tweet from Corbyn

I am personally more worried about the cheerleading coming from a vast number of people who think it is a good idea that someone like Trump has decided to become militarily involved in this quagmire

Perhaps we should concentrate on the real story here?

[Temulkar]

No, you chose to attack me spuriously cos you dont like me, or what I say. I didnt attack anyone on this forum, my post wasn't inn reply to you or anyone else. it was a statement of four verifiable facts sourced from the MSM, and my interpretation.

I mean at least show some fucking backbone and admit you were wrong, that is what is really the most abjectly pathetic thing today. I wasnt picking a fight, you chose to attack, you were wrong, admit it.

And my post wasn't in reply to you there.

I don't like you, no, because I've had you steam into me too many times.

But I will apologize this time. SH understood me by the look of it, but I can see it wasn't clear and too strong.

Sorry.

No that post was just about me; FFS you can't even apologise and retain some dignity. You remind me of an immature brat I've seen somewhere.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TechnicalEphemera]

Commenting only on the Corbyn tweet, I find that shocking. We don't need a UN investigation into responsibility, to claim we do is really endorsing Russian propaganda.

I assume arch Russian apologist Milne is responsible.

I don't find it shocking you find something shocking in a tweet from Corbyn

I am personally more worried about the cheerleading coming from a vast number of people who think it is a good idea that someone like Trump has decided to become militarily involved in this quagmire

Perhaps we should concentrate on the real story here?

The real story here is that Assad's forces used chemical weapons against civilians.

Now Jeremy is quite entitled to oppose intervention on moral grounds. I don't agree but it is a complex issue, and it is certainly true Trump getting involved hugely increases the risks. Sadly this is a side effect of presidency by Tweet.

Trying to muddy the waters about who is responsible is however very odd. I don't think I am the only one raising an eyebrow at that.

[howsillyofme1]

Commenting only on the Corbyn tweet, I find that shocking. We don't need a UN investigation into responsibility, to claim we do is really endorsing Russian propaganda.

I assume arch Russian apologist Milne is responsible.

I don't find it shocking you find something shocking in a tweet from Corbyn

I am personally more worried about the cheerleading coming from a vast number of people who think it is a good idea that someone like Trump has decided to become militarily involved in this quagmire

Perhaps we should concentrate on the real story here?

The real story here is that Assad's forces used chemical weapons against civilians.

Now Jeremy is quite entitled to oppose intervention on moral grounds. I don't agree but it is a complex issue, and it is certainly true Trump getting involved hugely increases the risks. Sadly this is a side effect of presidency by Tweet.

Trying to muddy the waters about who is responsible is however very odd. I don't think I am the only one raising an eyebrow at that.

Well you are so extreme on Corbyn your posts have lost any impact to be honest....and you read everything with a negative view

There is a story that Assad used chemical weapons, and that a seriously unstable U President has done a complete volte-face and now got involved in a conflict that is quite likely only to lead to either further escalation or loss of face for him

It is a shame those who are jumping around so happy about this are not quite so keen to take a stand against Saudia Arabia in Yemen

Chemical weapons are appalling but this moral distinction between chemical corrosives toxins versus chemical explosives is not quite so big. Pictures of babies dying from sarin is a horrible sight...but we don't see pictures of babies from Yemen or Mosul because there will either be nothing left to show or charred lumps of meat

We cannot even bring ourselves to stop supplying weapons to despots.....I am not suggesting we attack them

[Tubby Isaacs]

No, you chose to attack me spuriously cos you dont like me, or what I say. I didnt attack anyone on this forum, my post wasn't inn reply to you or anyone else. it was a statement of four verifiable facts sourced from the MSM, and my interpretation.

I mean at least show some fucking backbone and admit you were wrong, that is what is really the most abjectly pathetic thing today. I wasnt picking a fight, you chose to attack, you were wrong, admit it.

And my post wasn't in reply to you there.

I don't like you, no, because I've had you steam into me too many times.

But I will apologize this time. SH understood me by the look of it, but I can see it wasn't clear and too strong.

Sorry.

No that post was just about me; FFS you can't even apologise and retain some dignity. You remind me of an immature brat I've seen somewhere.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair point, the post was about you.

It was better than any apology I've ever seen you do.

[TechnicalEphemera]

The real story here is that Assad's forces used chemical weapons against civilians.

Now Jeremy is quite entitled to oppose intervention on moral grounds. I don't agree but it is a complex issue, and it is certainly true Trump getting involved hugely increases the risks. Sadly this is a side effect of presidency by Tweet.

Trying to muddy the waters about who is responsible is however very odd. I don't think I am the only one raising an eyebrow at that.

Well you are so extreme on Corbyn your posts have lost any impact to be honest....and you read everything with a negative view

There is a story that Assad used chemical weapons, and that a seriously unstable U President has done a complete volte-face and now got involved in a conflict that is quite likely only to lead to either further escalation or loss of face for him

It is a shame those who are jumping around so happy about this are not quite so keen to take a stand against Saudia Arabia in Yemen

Chemical weapons are appalling but this moral distinction between chemical corrosives toxins versus chemical explosives is not quite so big. Pictures of babies dying from sarin is a horrible sight...but we don't see pictures of babies from Yemen or Mosul because there will either be nothing left to show or charred lumps of meat

We cannot even bring ourselves to stop supplying weapons to despots.....I am not suggesting we attack them

Ignoring the whataboutery above, you have nothing to say about the decision to try and muddy the waters on responsibility.

[Temulkar]

Fair point, the post was about you.

It was better than any apology I've ever seen you do.

I don't make false accusations, lie about making said false accusation, and then pretend the false accusation was a metaphor when my words are quoted back to me though, so...

I guess that's the best you can muster, but it does you no credit when its given so grudgingly and with neither remorse nor contrition.

[HindleA]

[youtube]8hEYwk0bypY[/youtube]

[Tubby Isaacs]

Fair point, the post was about you.

It was better than any apology I've ever seen you do.

I don't make false accusations, lie about making said false accusation, and then pretend the false accusation was a metaphor when my words are quoted back to me though, so...

I guess that's the best you can muster, but it does you no credit when its given so grudgingly and with neither remorse nor contrition.

I didn't do that either.

You lied about me before though. When you said I "smeared a million people", because I strongly opposed some people getting involved with an event co-convened by an unrepentant SWP face.

The way you worked that out was adding up the members of the Labour Party, Green Party and the NUT, and acted like I was saying they were all SWP dupes. You know that was a load of rubbish. So you were lying.

[Temulkar]

Fair point, the post was about you.

It was better than any apology I've ever seen you do.

I don't make false accusations, lie about making said false accusation, and then pretend the false accusation was a metaphor when my words are quoted back to me though, so...

I guess that's the best you can muster, but it does you no credit when its given so grudgingly and with neither remorse nor contrition.

I didn't do that either.

You lied about me before though. When you said I "smeared a million people", because I strongly opposed some people getting involved with an event co-convened by an unrepentant SWP face.

The way you worked that out was adding up the members of the Labour Party, Green Party and the NUT, and acted like I was saying they were all SWP dupes. You know that was a load of rubbish. So you were lying.

No you claimed an event was front for the SWP when it demonstrably wasnt. Once again your words are clearly available, Im happy to go back and dig out the dates for everyone to see...

Frankly Tubby, you're displaying a pathetic level of immaturity on here today.

[howsillyofme1]

The real story here is that Assad's forces used chemical weapons against civilians.

Now Jeremy is quite entitled to oppose intervention on moral grounds. I don't agree but it is a complex issue, and it is certainly true Trump getting involved hugely increases the risks. Sadly this is a side effect of presidency by Tweet.

Trying to muddy the waters about who is responsible is however very odd. I don't think I am the only one raising an eyebrow at that.

Well you are so extreme on Corbyn your posts have lost any impact to be honest....and you read everything with a negative view

There is a story that Assad used chemical weapons, and that a seriously unstable U President has done a complete volte-face and now got involved in a conflict that is quite likely only to lead to either further escalation or loss of face for him

It is a shame those who are jumping around so happy about this are not quite so keen to take a stand against Saudia Arabia in Yemen

Chemical weapons are appalling but this moral distinction between chemical corrosives toxins versus chemical explosives is not quite so big. Pictures of babies dying from sarin is a horrible sight...but we don't see pictures of babies from Yemen or Mosul because there will either be nothing left to show or charred lumps of meat

We cannot even bring ourselves to stop supplying weapons to despots.....I am not suggesting we attack them

Ignoring the whataboutery above, you have nothing to say about the decision to try and muddy the waters on responsibility.

Ah quoting your pal Hugo...how sweet!

Not 'whataboutery' at all just highlighting hypocrisy of those who support one thing but ignore others as it suits them....

People who support (ineffectively) bombing someone who kills children but cannot bring themselves to vote to stop supplying weapons to other countries who also kill children.....

As to the muddying waters - I do not see it like that......I don't have to agree with your (always negative) analysis of what Corbyn says and does. Your views on him are too extreme to make it worth debating with you on him

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Now now, I was just going to say that this had been quite a good natured conversation today given the rather controversial subject.......

Then the mods should bloody well step in. I was accused of something I didnt do, and the accuser has now lied about it, and then claimed it was a fucking metaphor.

With all due respect, if you look at the Forum rules above you need to make a complaint if you want something to happen. Remember the Admin are volunteers, not proactive moderators.

Thank you.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Now what was it glossy Dave said?

"Calm down Dears"

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'll dig it out for you.

It was a lie and a smear, and you knnow it. It is frankly pathetic you havent got the decency to apologise for you bullshit. You demean yourself asnd this bboard. The green party are not dupes for the SWP, NUT are not dupes for the SWP, Amnesty are not dupes for the SWP, Labour and their leadership are not dupes for the SWP. Nonne of us support rape apologists, and the inference that corbyn hangs out with rape apologists is disgusting. You smeared a million + people with your lies. Stand up to Racism and Stop the War, are not fronts for the SWP. They are npt recruiting vehicles, because as we know their already miniscule membership is still dwindlng. Every smear you made last night was easily disproven by the actual facts. You're a liar.

Explained thus.

Labour party over 600k members
Green Party over 60k members
NUT over 400k members

And thats just three of the organisations you smeared with your lies. Facts easily disprove your bullshit.

That's not you and me disagreeing over whether an event was an SWP front or not. That's you lying about me. Because as you know very well, I at no point smeared a million people.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Anyway, that's me done with you for today.

[TechnicalEphemera]

At the risk of launching more flame wars,

Stuck for a christmas present for former GLC Leaders and London Mayors who have everything?

Grab one of these......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 70691.html

What's the betting at least one of his mates gets him one for a joke.