Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 6:42 am

The Last Leg with special guest, Ed Miliband, was a hoot.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-last-leg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 7:38 am

Thanks pk1. I'm glad my fears were unfounded. I can watch it now.

I posted earlier in the week to highlight he was going to be on the programme, but feared that it wouldn't go well. Not because of Ed. More because of how people have been 'taught' to view him via our hateful media.

PfY has also indicated that the Twitter reaction has been very positive, with people posting things like "I never realised he was so funny." (No, because you swallowed the media crap).

I'm pleased it went well and that he's been well received, but evener sadder about 2015 now.

Morning everyone.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 7:54 am

Morning all.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 9:58 am

pk1 wrote:The Last Leg with special guest, Ed Miliband, was a hoot.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-last-leg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you so much for posting that, most TV passes me by these days, but thanks to the wonders of broadband internet I shall be able to enjoy that.

If only Ed had won, how less screwed this country would be.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:06 am

25 years since 92 election.

I remember it all too well. I'd spent weeks campaigning for Labour. We won in our seat,from the Tories, but the election night party... Oh dear. Have never felt sadder. Got drunk and behaved inappropriately. I wrote to Kinnock afterwards, and I still have his reply.

The Tories had put up billboards with "You Can't Trust Labour". A mate and me went round in his old escort painting over "ts" so that they read "You Can Trust Labour"

It was a sunny day, and I was doing one of the shifts at the polling station. The Tories had bussed a load of dementia patients over, and they were dazed and confused, didn't know where they were, let alone how to vote. It was really grim.

5 more years we had to put up with. FFS.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:08 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
pk1 wrote:The Last Leg with special guest, Ed Miliband, was a hoot.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-last-leg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thank you so much for posting that, most TV passes me by these days, but thanks to the wonders of broadband internet I shall be able to enjoy that.

If only Ed had won, how less screwed this country would be.

Sentimentality. It is a sin of the left. It is why we keep losing.

Miliband is one of the central reasons why we lost. He didn't realise in 2010 that he wasn't an appropriate leader. Because we lost in 2015, we now have Corbyn and never ending Tory rule.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:09 am

There was a clearly discernible move back to the Tories in the last 48 hours before voting, but even on polling day hardly anybody (them included) thought a majority was on.

As with 2015, that was a rare example of voters getting things wrong - the Tories did not deserve to win on either occasion.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:21 am

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:22 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
pk1 wrote:The Last Leg with special guest, Ed Miliband, was a hoot.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-last-leg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thank you so much for posting that, most TV passes me by these days, but thanks to the wonders of broadband internet I shall be able to enjoy that.

If only Ed had won, how less screwed this country would be.
Sentimentality. It is a sin of the left. It is why we keep losing.

Miliband is one of the central reasons why we lost. He didn't realise in 2010 that he wasn't an appropriate leader. Because we lost in 2015, we now have Corbyn and never ending Tory rule.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:28 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 73296.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scotland could leave the UK and join Canada instead, says author
'Even as a typical Canadian province, it would have more powers than it does now,' says Ken McGoogan

strangely appropriate given geological history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Euramerica_en.svg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:34 am

Mr Steel

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 70521.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can understand the anger from people who are furious at the National Trust for advertising an egg hunt without putting the word “Easter” before it.

Because sadly this is one more step in a common trend. Last week the RAC omitted the words “Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who died upon the cross for all our sins” from its suggested route to Cardiff. I was offended and disgusted, and certainly won’t be using the M4 as they advise.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:35 am

And this disturbs us because the religious aspect to Easter is central to most people’s thinking. Whenever anyone butters a hot cross bun they reflect on the serenity of the Lord Jesus at the Last Supper through to the betrayals of his disciples, and the sins of Pontius Pilate and the Roman crowds that welcomed his crucifixion. And we give an extra thought to the effect on Saint Peter if it’s toasted.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:38 am

The National Trust have tried to defend their actions, by pointing out it isn’t true they omitted the word Easter, but what difference does that make? If we can’t condemn an organisation for omitting a word they haven’t omitted, we‘ve lost the true meaning of Christianity.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:40 am

https://easter.cadbury.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:44 am

"In the last 10 years I have been one of the few British politicians to speak up on the benefits of immigration," he said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 72741.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Boris Johnson.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:45 am

Notwithstanding that

In the days before the 23 June referendum, the former London mayor claimed remaining in the EU was the “riskier” option because of the supposed pressures on housing and the NHS from European migrants.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 11:11 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
"In the last 10 years I have been one of the few British politicians to speak up on the benefits of immigration," he said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 72741.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Boris Johnson.

Johnson, never knowingly not a massive bellend.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 11:17 am

So I am led to believe.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 11:23 am

FWIW I think Steel's article falls flat.Maybe just my experience but the hot cross bun thing was an avenue for discussions/explanations of significance etc.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 11:30 am

Morning

It is truly one of the strange things that certain people (such as Miliband and Corbyn) are considered never to be possible PM but we accept Cameron and May as being suitable (and who ever else the Tories will come up with in the future)!

Personally, I have seldom seen two more incompetent and loathsome individuals as those last two - perhaps that is now the criteria we should use for a future Labour leader!

Remember also, without the Gove defection and his lack of courage Johnson would have strolled into Number 10!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 11:30 am

Mum still has hopes of me becoming a vicar,as a non believer this may be a problem.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 12:08 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning

It is truly one of the strange things that certain people (such as Miliband and Corbyn) are considered never to be possible PM but we accept Cameron and May as being suitable (and who ever else the Tories will come up with in the future)!

Personally, I have seldom seen two more incompetent and loathsome individuals as those last two - perhaps that is now the criteria we should use for a future Labour leader!

Remember also, without the Gove defection and his lack of courage Johnson would have strolled into Number 10!

An interesting thing with May, IMO, is that being seen as a contrast to Cameron/Osborne isn't doing her much harm.

I've heard "she is clearing up the posh boys mess" used as a reason for giving her a chance.......

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 12:38 pm

I see that Leave.EU have noticed the government giving ground on Freedom of Movement.

Is UKIP in any sort of shape to get their voters back from May?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 12:47 pm

Morning.

I see we're still on why the Tories won the 2015 election. I thought we'd have got our heads around that by now.

1) Regarding the economy, middle earners were shielded from austerity and house prices went up, keeping a lot of 2010 Tory voters on board.

2) The Libdems. The Tories won a lot of seats from the Libdems. 5 years of Clegg siding with the Tories and attacking Labour led to a collapse of the tactical vote plus Libdems got used to arguing Tory/Coalition policies as superior to Labour and hence, in an apparent two horse race, broke heavily for the Tories.

3) Ukip. Labour not offering an EU referendum probably lost some otherwise Labour votes to Ukip, but rather more significantly Cameron offering one bought a lot of Ukip votes for the Tories, at the ultimate cost of our membership of the EU.

4) Scotland.

5) Tory/Labour marginals. This one was crucial, this is where the negative press and Ed Miliband's image may actually have made a difference. Although whether it would have made a difference without all the extra spending, extra bussed in canvassers and letters from David Cameron on parliament stationary etc, who knows?

So there you have it. The Tories won because of house prices, alleged fraudulent spending, a biased press and a willingness to jeopardise the well being of the entire nation just to buy some votes. And Libdem voters turning out to be the yellow Tories we always thought they were. We're a pretty right wing country, that's the reality, that's what we're up against. I have never been against Tony Blair for recognising that and using it to win. Where Blair failed was in failing to change the rules of the game when he had the chance. Electoral and democratic reform didn't go far enough. Financial sector had too much free rein. Redistribution of wealth was too easy for the following Coalition government to reverse etc. Ed Miliband would have done more, I feel, in government, but admittedly lacked Blair's ability to get there. We clearly need a leader that combines both. We clearly don't have one. But then neither does anyone else. The high poll figures for the Tories are for Brexit not May. She's eminently beatable. And if a lightweight like Cameron can beat Gordon Brown, then there is surely someone in Labour capable of beating May. I just don't think it's Corbyn. Sorry.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:01 pm

Good summary.

The illegal spending probably didn't shift many seats. As you say the marginals they absolutely killed us.

This was the parliament with chickens coming home to roost.Labour sadly blew it. I say Labour rather than Corbyn because it's a wider failure. The other candidates wouldn't have responded to Brexit much better.

What needed to happen was somebody able to take strong lead for soft Brexit. Owen Smith might have, but he might not.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:04 pm

Willow904 wrote:Morning.

I see we're still on why the Tories won the 2015 election. I thought we'd have got our heads around that by now.

1) Regarding the economy, middle earners were shielded from austerity and house prices went up, keeping a lot of 2010 Tory voters on board.

2) The Libdems. The Tories won a lot of seats from the Libdems. 5 years of Clegg siding with the Tories and attacking Labour led to a collapse of the tactical vote plus Libdems got used to arguing Tory/Coalition policies as superior to Labour and hence, in an apparent two horse race, broke heavily for the Tories.

3) Ukip. Labour not offering an EU referendum probably lost some otherwise Labour votes to Ukip, but rather more significantly Cameron offering one bought a lot of Ukip votes for the Tories, at the ultimate cost of our membership of the EU.

4) Scotland.

5) Tory/Labour marginals. This one was crucial, this is where the negative press and Ed Miliband's image may actually have made a difference. Although whether it would have made a difference without all the extra spending, extra bussed in canvassers and letters from David Cameron on parliament stationary etc, who knows?

So there you have it. The Tories won because of house prices, alleged fraudulent spending, a biased press and a willingness to jeopardise the well being of the entire nation just to buy some votes. And Libdem voters turning out to be the yellow Tories we always thought they were. We're a pretty right wing country, that's the reality, that's what we're up against. I have never been against Tony Blair for recognising that and using it to win. Where Blair failed was in failing to change the rules of the game when he had the chance. Electoral and democratic reform didn't go far enough. Financial sector had too much free rein. Redistribution of wealth was too easy for the following Coalition government to reverse etc. Ed Miliband would have done more, I feel, in government, but admittedly lacked Blair's ability to get there. We clearly need a leader that combines both. We clearly don't have one. But then neither does anyone else. The high poll figures for the Tories are for Brexit not May. She's eminently beatable. And if a lightweight like Cameron can beat Gordon Brown, then there is surely someone in Labour capable of beating May. I just don't think it's Corbyn. Sorry.

I think, personally, that this focus on the leader - whoever they are - is part of the problem. I think that it is the movement that will beat the Tories. Half a million members behind a united party with the policies already being espoused would be hammering May in the polls.

With regard to Milliband - who I liked - he was undermined by the very same cabal of people who are the most vociferous about Corbyn. They are pretty much the same people who wanted Milliband senior to do for Brown before 2010. They have basically undermined every leader that labour has had since Blair.

Progress are now as destructive a force in Labour as Militant ever were, and they have probably done for the party with the ongoing civil war.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:06 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:25 years since 92 election.

I remember it all too well. I'd spent weeks campaigning for Labour. We won in our seat,from the Tories, but the election night party... Oh dear. Have never felt sadder. Got drunk and behaved inappropriately. I wrote to Kinnock afterwards, and I still have his reply.

The Tories had put up billboards with "You Can't Trust Labour". A mate and me went round in his old escort painting over "ts" so that they read "You Can Trust Labour"

It was a sunny day, and I was doing one of the shifts at the polling station. The Tories had bussed a load of dementia patients over, and they were dazed and confused, didn't know where they were, let alone how to vote. It was really grim.

5 more years we had to put up with. FFS.

I find it worse now because at least in 1992 Labour ran strongly on middle class tax rises that raised significant extra money.

Lately it's been (welcome) small amounts that won't be paid by people like us.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:20 pm

Good summary Willow

Don't apologise for not thinking Corbyn can win. That is your view and I fully respect it

What rails is the lazy attacking of Corbyn for ever thing that in the news (and I am not accusing you of that to be clear)

Tem has a point though....it is the same people who undermined Miliband who are doing the same with Cornyn and who will do the same to anyone who the members elect!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:27 pm

It's far more strongly opposed to Corbyn than were opposed to Miliband or Brown.

80% of MPs for a start. Including Miliband. And Brown too.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:33 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:It's far more strongly opposed to Corbyn than were opposed to Miliband or Brown.

80% of MPs for a start. Including Miliband. And Brown too.

Yes, but he - along with some (but not enough) others - offers *constructive* criticism of Corbyn(ism)

Instead, the PLP has far too many brainless arses like Dugher and Austin (and if anything I dislike them even more than the Progress ideologues)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:42 pm

As I always say, the Tories haven't started with Corbyn.

I watched an old CBS report on the 80s left. Egregious bias but still enough seriously stupid stuff going on. People paid to sit down going through library books objecting to black horses and council employees being harassed for not having African food every day. People setting anti-capitalist maths.

It had achievements on equalities and pioneered multiculturalism, but it isn't hard to find utterly stupid stuff.

Corbyn is going to be tied to this and Labour will be flayed alive.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:It's far more strongly opposed to Corbyn than were opposed to Miliband or Brown.

80% of MPs for a start. Including Miliband. And Brown too.
Yes, but he - along with some (but not enough) others - offers *constructive* criticism of Corbyn(ism)

Instead, the PLP has far too many brainless arses like Dugher and Austin (and if anything I dislike them even more than the Progress ideologues)

Vast majority, it's about policy more than anything. Someone like Streeting is a good example. There's silly stuff about McDonald's but also policy too.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:45 pm

Temulkar wrote:
I think, personally, that this focus on the leader - whoever they are - is part of the problem. I think that it is the movement that will beat the Tories. Half a million members behind a united party with the policies already being espoused would be hammering May in the polls.

With regard to Milliband - who I liked - he was undermined by the very same cabal of people who are the most vociferous about Corbyn. They are pretty much the same people who wanted Milliband senior to do for Brown before 2010. They have basically undermined every leader that labour has had since Blair.

Progress are now as destructive a force in Labour as Militant ever were, and they have probably done for the party with the ongoing civil war.

Hi. If you actually look at my summary you will see that only point 5 deals with the character of the leader specifically and I'm not sure how big a difference it made. Point 2 particularly deals with how a lot of voters, Libdems especially were actually sold on Tory right wing policies by Clegg endorsing them. By 2015 they were so convinced by Tory austerity they voted for more of it.
What I said about Blair was that he, and the people around him, were better at the electoral stuff than the transformative stuff. Presentation rather than substance. Ed was more the other way round. The substance was good, people responded to his policies but he and his team were outgunned in terms of electoral campaigning.

Corbyn is clearly popular with some Labour supporters because they like his individual views and principles and what he stands for. But this isn't the same as party policy or what the party as a whole stands for, it isn't the same as imbuing the party with a character whether more superficial, like Blair, or more of substance like Miliband at his best. And the electoral machine under current leadership shows no sign of improving on Miliband's weaknesses.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:47 pm

There is a lot to worry about if Corbyn is still there come a 2020 GE, but i am genuinely sceptical that reheated 80s "loony left" stuff will resonate that much (save for the already convinced) Tories have largely ignored that and pushed the "friend of IRA/Hezbollah" memes much more forcefully for a reason - they aren't totally stupid (though we might wish otherwise)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:51 pm

Of course the irony is that lots of the London municipal left went uber-Blairite. But don't think Corbyn will get credit for not having put distance between himself and that era.

And don't think that era is simply "ahead of its time", as some people think now.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:55 pm

Willow904 wrote: 5) Tory/Labour marginals. This one was crucial, this is where the negative press and Ed Miliband's image may actually have made a difference. Although whether it would have made a difference without all the extra spending, extra bussed in canvassers and letters from David Cameron on parliament stationary etc, who knows?

This. Their targeting was spot on, as was Trump's.
I don't want to praise them at all, but it is clever stuff.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 1:58 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:There is a lot to worry about if Corbyn is still there come a 2020 GE, but i am genuinely sceptical that reheated 80s "loony left" stuff will resonate that much (save for the already convinced) Tories have largely ignored that and pushed the "friend of IRA/Hezbollah" memes much more forcefully for a reason - they aren't totally stupid (though we might wish otherwise)

I don't know. It's pretty striking stuff when you see it now, and allowing for the bias, it looks awful. Check the CBS report out, from 1987, can't do a link from here. It ticks a few Tory wedge boxes.

He doesn't really have anything to set against it, in terms of stepping up to power either.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:01 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:It's far more strongly opposed to Corbyn than were opposed to Miliband or Brown.

80% of MPs for a start. Including Miliband. And Brown too.
Yes, but he - along with some (but not enough) others - offers *constructive* criticism of Corbyn(ism)

Instead, the PLP has far too many brainless arses like Dugher and Austin (and if anything I dislike them even more than the Progress ideologues)
Vast majority, it's about policy more than anything. Someone like Streeting is a good example. There's silly stuff about McDonald's but also policy too.

I don't think Streeting is that bad either all told - but the McDonalds nonsense *is* what many people associate with him now.

(of course, the fact previous tweets of his were soon uncovered which PRAISED falafel bars didn't really help either

)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:02 pm

Obviously it's how they portray him anyway, but I'd be surprised if there weren't plenty there to throw out in the campaign and knock a good Labour policy off the top of the news.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:04 pm

Austin did strangely well in his seat in 2015. It helps him that it's got lots of Kippers but even so. Good constituency MP or something?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:06 pm

Temulkar wrote:
I think, personally, that this focus on the leader - whoever they are - is part of the problem. I think that it is the movement that will beat the Tories.

It's a big part of the problem imo, I've never thought I couldn't vote for Labour because of JC.
Oppose the govt, vote for the opposition, as I've said before.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:32 pm

Interesting to see the other day that consumer confidence in Scotland is very low compared with the UK. And GDP fell in the last quarter by 0.2%

In one sense, that's a more rational reaction to Brexit in Scotland. But have they (in part) talked their way into a recession?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:44 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Interesting to see the other day that consumer confidence in Scotland is very low compared with the UK. And GDP fell in the last quarter by 0.2%

In one sense, that's a more rational reaction to Brexit in Scotland. But have they (in part) talked their way into a recession?

Fuel inflation impacting outlying regions more quickly? I think the whole of the UK could be facing recession when stagnating wages collide with inflation and debt limits.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:50 pm

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote: 5) Tory/Labour marginals. This one was crucial, this is where the negative press and Ed Miliband's image may actually have made a difference. Although whether it would have made a difference without all the extra spending, extra bussed in canvassers and letters from David Cameron on parliament stationary etc, who knows?
This. Their targeting was spot on, as was Trump's.
I don't want to praise them at all, but it is clever stuff.

Does the strategy depend on surprise, though? Now we know more about how they did it, I'm hoping it will be less of an uneven fight in future.
Although having said that, boundary changes will provide the Tory advantage next time, unfortunately.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:58 pm

I think Boris Johnson is a big weak spot. I haven't seen any sense of Labour targeting him.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:59 pm

What's the strategy for Scotland this time? Why can't May pull the same trick as last time? What work has been done to neutralise?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 3:02 pm

I think Willow nailed it, that Tory majority by the way is down to a very few thousand votes. The busses probably swung a chunk of it.

The one lesson you can take is that the candidate is the campaign. The idea you can win with a candidate people don't see as a credible PM was largely blown away. Cameron dragged the Tory vote up, sadly Ed dragged the labour vote down.

Which neatly brings us to 92, where Kinnock had similar problems against Major. It was a constant refrain on the doorsteps along with I can't afford to take a chance as I am just hanging on. I have no idea why Major was seen as competent, but he was.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 3:08 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:What's the strategy for Scotland this time? Why can't May pull the same trick as last time? What work has been done to neutralise?

Realistically the strategy for Scotland this time is lose badly, unless you go full nuclear and float off Scottish Labour as a separate party (which probably won't help much).

There is a chance the SNP chickens will come home to roost, but it feels more like 2025 ( inside or outside of the UK).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 3:11 pm

In both cases, of course, the media played a major part in those perceptions.

Corbyn has shown that just ignoring it isn't going to work, but the Blairite policy of full-on appeasement is ultimately a self-defeating dead end also.

The left (in other words, this applies more widely than just "Labour") needs a strategy both to neutralise an entrenchedly hostile MSM but also to devise ways of BYPASSING it effectively. One small thing that we could start with - a campaign against those godawful late night "tomorrow's papers" slots on BBC News/Sky??

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 3:16 pm

If enough people want to poke the political class in the eye, isn't now a great time to be looking at a cross-party single issue campaign on PR? Fuelled by stories that actually resonate with people.

There aren’t many issues which bring together UKIP, the Green Party and Plaid Cymru, or the Liberal Democrats and the SNP. But there is one which does - the need for a fair voting system.
http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;