Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

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HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

What makes me angry is that despite the relentless propaganda it is atrociously underclaimed,not easy to outline in personal and detailed form for the vast majority and thus many defer until necessary and THEN having done so repeat/delve further and disbelieved as the default.
Last edited by HindleA on Sun 09 Apr, 2017 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
seeingclearly
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by seeingclearly »

@TE. If you think nothing is happening, or even that there is a rabbit in the headlight state of affairs then you are not looking in the right places. I remember similar things in the eighties, but actually behind all the apparent defeats a lot was happening. And a lot is now. People are becoming sickened by what we are expected to be. And far from being politically apathetic or neutral they are more aware now. Nothing like falling for the lies of charlatans to teach people to look a bit harder. A lot here will remember Clegg as a catalyst for deep scepticism. Though I am no Corbynista, I do not include him in this, though I think it unlikely he will find himself in government. I still think he will energise and help renew a party that had strayed so far from its reason for being that its sitting duck status was well deserved. But do not underestimate what is happening. This country has been known on occasion to turn on a sixpence, and for the right reasons too.
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

Of course the I know a bloke who I diagnose by sight and therefore nothing wrong with him who I have followed 24 hours a day for all of his life,as an expert in eligibility and access to his bank accounts and intricate knowledge of spendings habits or possibly saw him non crawling with a bag of shopping once,seems to be winning the day.
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

Damn golf related
seeingclearly
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by seeingclearly »

HindleA wrote:What makes me angry is that despite the relentless propaganda it is atrociously underclaimed,not easy to outline in personal and detailed form for the vast majority and thus many defer until necessary and THEN having done so repeat/delve further and disbelieved as the default.
There are two levels, one is a bare minimum of help for rather disempowered people, and quite a lot of info about vanishingly small help for people whose employment chnces are in fact very limited. I did for a while produce newsletter stories of these (very minor) victories. Stuff to convince the right people that something was happening. Of the top end support, virtually nothing, no info unless asked or, nothing openly said, no encouragement unless you had found out for yourself. The pot was there, but how many could access it was another matter. If not used of course, it was returned to source, and the next year the pot would be smaller, because the need was seen to have shrunk. But of course was also aware many needed a middle level of sensible support, and an infrastructure to match. But that only rarely happened.

In your example, surely the sensible thing to do was to provide alternative funding for said individual to purchase adapted vehicle, as her PIP didn't do that, and cover her insurance. i.e. make up for the shortfallings in one system by ensuring she could continue in work. Better solution than cabs and would give her more independence, but I guess there must be regs about that. And not many people with the wit to actively put it to the test. Waiting for someone to pop up their head elsewhere and say this lady is getting some kind of undue entitlement, etc. etc. but reason those in power have so little clue, it is as if we are governed by (apologies to PC adherents) halfwits. Which of course we, in all probability, are.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by Willow904 »

Sorry to be cynical, but history suggests a house price crash will be more effective in stopping the Tories in their tracks than any kind of mass awareness of political intent or development of conscience.

Which brings me back to the question that I have repeatedly asked since I first ventured btl at the G 5 years ago and have still yet to have got a reply to : can the Tories keep artificially propping up house prices indefinitely?

I honestly don't know, but suggest therein lies the key to the fabled (and obviously tosh) economic competence of the Tories in government and their only real Achilles heel. Even they can't survive a house price crash, imo.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
gilsey
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by gilsey »

Golf
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

Seeing clearly there will always be people desperate to satisfy their own misanthropy and need for feeling superior-an active participatory with necessary support -unfair, or the despised socially isolated through lack of support-the sitting at home doing nothing Osborne mentioned deliberately in the context of sickness/disability.

There are costs regardless and costs specific by purposeful intent they removed/reduced the former exponentially increasing costs contigent ascribed as policy.never forget the behaviourial change at any cost view,non access to scheme in any case and or not able to work can go swing and be quick about it.
Last edited by HindleA on Mon 10 Apr, 2017 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
seeingclearly
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by seeingclearly »

Willow904 wrote:Sorry to be cynical, but history suggests a house price crash will be more effective in stopping the Tories in their tracks than any kind of mass awareness of political intent or development of conscience.

Which brings me back to the question that I have repeatedly asked since I first ventured btl at the G 5 years ago and have still yet to have got a reply to : can the Tories keep artificially propping up house prices indefinitely?

I honestly don't know, but suggest therein lies the key to the fabled (and obviously tosh) economic competence of the Tories in government and their only real Achilles heel. Even they can't survive a house price crash, imo.
Isn't there some minor kind of collapse going on now? I am sure I read something of this recently?

Aren't you really asking if there are limits to growth? I think that is not just a question about tories but about the invisibles they represent. The housing market is an indicator of that, i.e. you have to have wealth growth to sustain high housing prices. That is a global thing. Perhaps in the light of Brexit we may lapse into being less interesting and London especially. But it could easily go the other way too. Deregulation and corruption being great attractors of wealth. It is not just a British thing. Everyone and their dog has aspirations of being an elite, except those of us who know we will never be. If there were a global crash that shook the confidence of the elites well maybe, but my observation is they all, or mostly, come out ok from ordinary crashes. Wasn't the last event to genuinely shake up property values WW2? If there was a smaller crash people would just sit on their property and ride it out, and a few would shout negative equity, but eventually things will carry on growing. It would take a far bigger change, not yet even visible on the horison to reset economics to a pattern where fast growth was a thing of the past and seen to be undesirable. So we will have to look for hope elsewhere.
seeingclearly
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by seeingclearly »

HindleA wrote:Seeing clearly there will always be people desperate to satisfy their own misanthropy and need for feeling superior-an active participatory with necessary support -unfair, or the despised socially isolated through lack of support-the sitting at home doing nothing Osborne mentioned deliberately in the context of sickness/disability.
My curtains permanently closed, and fitting all descriptors, but busloads of kids observing care visits would give room with a view whole new meaning. However even a small ramp apparently not likely to materialise in this lifetime! Oh, despicable me!
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

Think Rose needs to get this putt in.........
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

bollox
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by HindleA »

Well done Garcia
tinybgoat
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by tinybgoat »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Oh and another massive surprise.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74706.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK to 'scale down' climate change and illegal wildlife measures to bring in post-Brexit trade, secret documents reveal
Would this jeopardise post brexit eu trading agreements?
24. Stresses that any future agreement between the European Union and the United
Kingdom is conditional on the United Kingdom’s continued adherence to the standards
provided by international obligations, including human rights, and the Union’s
legislation and policies, in, among others, the fields of the environment, climate change,
the fight against tax evasion and avoidance, fair competition, trade and social rights,
especially safeguards against social dumping;
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 8th and Sunday 9th April 2017

Post by Willow904 »

There aren't enough elites to give the Tories a majority. They rely on far more tenous support from those who don't really benefit from their policies but believe they do. And I get the impression a lot of those votes come from people who think rising house prices is a sign of economic competence and, therefore, falling house prices - as opposed to other signs, such as rising inflation, stagnant wages and record household debt - might be the thing that shakes them out of the kind of complacency that has seen very poor economic governance recently rewarded with a slim majority.

It's not a question of "hope", more an observance that a lot of policy has been directed at propping up house prices, for obvious reasons, and so far successfully, but there is the question of whether it can be sustained. And whether enthusiasm for Tory government can survive a collapse.

I just kind of remember lots of people facing jail for not paying council tax under the Tories in the past, and much higher rates of homelessness and so on, but I don't remember compassion or conscience getting them voted out particularly. It was the recession and house prices more than anything. Sadly.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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