Friday 14th to Monday 17th April 2017

[refitman]

You know that fool from the NUS who was apparently trying to get Westminster University bombed by Jihadis?

She seems to be dating Richard Burgon...

Is it because he's fat?

Never heard of her.

[HindleA]

Seem to have been adopted by next door as part of their extended family,a curry a week with extra,as today at times of their family gatherings,meanwhile I have my own regular parental supplies of prepared meals and essential supplies,a reminder what else is going on plenty of good people about.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't know if people commenting on the weight of a male boss, as Burgon effectively is, would bring on formal discipline. And anyway, it didn't here. If it does now, it'll just look silly, like the kitchen sink is being thrown.

Does it bring Labour into disrepute? Maybe. But (whataboutery is inevitable with this sort of thing) not as much as Abbott taking her understanding of a high profile legal case from newspapers and slandering the judge.

[Tubby Isaacs]

You know that fool from the NUS who was apparently trying to get Westminster University bombed by Jihadis?

She seems to be dating Richard Burgon...

Is it because he's fat?

Never heard of her.

Ha ha.

I was complaining about her on here the other day. Incredibly reckless stuff.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Coyle is the subject of a formal complaint regarding alleged public bullying of a recently-departed member of staff

Wonder if this is Matt Zarb?

[HindleA]

Personal insults don't particularly bother me,crucially of course I am in a position of no responsibility so can freely with liberal usage of appropriate swear words combat,if so wished,so bald headed twat in the same vein,only taking the piss you have no sense of humour you can't say anything these days without people taking offence when you were trying to offend them,not open to him.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Wow.

Watching an old episode of The Late Late Breakfast Show on youtube. (Ephemeral stuff always gives you the best idea of what an era was really like). Lots of Bill Wyman underage sex jokes. I think it was on about 6 o'clock on Saturday.

Before paedophilia was bad.

[Tubby Isaacs]

MPs should take the piss out of this bloke too.

Andy Burnham‏ @andyburnhammp
Bit bizarre hearing these right-wing calls for a "Barista Visa". God forbid the idea of waiting longer in the morning for their posh coffee.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I've stopped watching the Late Late Breakfast Show.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Tories in the West Midlands referring to "Corbyn's Candidate" for Mayor.

[howsillyofme1]

Was someone above trying to equate the decision to go to war with Brexit?

Someone who is probably the most sanctimonious poster I have ever seen seems to have its lost moral compass

Brexit is a mistake. Labour opposed Brexit. Brexit is a Tory-led decision

I don't want to rehash all the A50 again but I suggest you speak to some people who voted for Leave

I have never given any indication that I am confident I am right, it is a shame certain others indicate that they have no absolute truth...

You can have your opinion and you are welcome to it...it is just that though - an opinion... and yours is particularly valueless

And stop this fucking 'Vote Green' shit - you are about as convincing as Boris Johnson is as a Foreign Secretary.

[SpinningHugo]

Was someone above trying to equate the decision to go to war with Brexit?

Someone who is probably the most sanctimonious poster I have ever seen seems to have its lost moral compass

Brexit is a mistake. Labour opposed Brexit. Brexit is a Tory-led decision

I don't want to rehash all the A50 again but I suggest you speak to some people who voted for Leave

I have never given any indication that I am confident I am right, it is a shame certain others indicate that they have no absolute truth...

You can have your opinion and you are welcome to it...it is just that though - an opinion... and yours is particularly valueless

And stop this fucking 'Vote Green' shit - you are about as convincing as Boris Johnson is as a Foreign Secretary.

That is just soooo your opinion.

Yes. Indeed it is.

[howsillyofme1]

You know....reading some of the posts on here I can understand AK and his disillusion

All we get is moaning and complaining about the Labour Party

Perhaps some of us should just tear up our membership cards and leave the party to those who lost the last two elections and want to follow the Tories to the right!

It is getting tiring now to be honest

We keep being told the current Labour leader is unelectable as PM..where do people get that impression from. As with Miliband

Have they met him?

His tv interviews are different but not bad...he is not a slick salesman but I thought we did not want them anymore

Labour policies are not unpopular when explained

Labour and others have stopped a number of Tory policies since 2015

I think we should all accept that Cameron and May have been absolutely useless PM....the country is in a mess because of them. Brexit is because of them

Could it be that the media treatment of Labour has been a major contributor, ably helped by certain Labour politicians?

The media (owned in the main by tax dodging right wing scum) and a pathetic BBC will not seem to allow any positive representation of the left. The only Labour leader acceptable would we one acceptable to people like Hugo!

[howsillyofme1]

Was someone above trying to equate the decision to go to war with Brexit?

Someone who is probably the most sanctimonious poster I have ever seen seems to have its lost moral compass

Brexit is a mistake. Labour opposed Brexit. Brexit is a Tory-led decision

I don't want to rehash all the A50 again but I suggest you speak to some people who voted for Leave

I have never given any indication that I am confident I am right, it is a shame certain others indicate that they have no absolute truth...

You can have your opinion and you are welcome to it...it is just that though - an opinion... and yours is particularly valueless

And stop this fucking 'Vote Green' shit - you are about as convincing as Boris Johnson is as a Foreign Secretary.

That is just soooo your opinion.

Yes. Indeed it is.

Of course it is my fucking opinion.....and I am happy to say so

What is different is that I am prepared to admit I could be wrong

I make the best judgement on what I observe and read....

[tinybgoat]

All this disaster that is Brexit but people still support the party that caused it

And before Hugo says that Labour are also a Brexit party because of A50 is an example of his continued undermining of a party he has never really supported....they are not but they have to deal with te realpolitik and not some desired alternative future

Let me give you an analogy that might help you.

If the UK had not supported the Iraq War, would it still have happened? Would the murder and chaos still have eventuated?

Yes.

Does that mean the UK and its governing party at the time (the one I supported) has no responsibility for the IRaq War, as it would have happened anyway?

No.

Because the UK contributed. Everyone who contributes is responsible.

Would art 50 have been triggered regardless of T May's vote? Yes. J Reese-Mogg's? Yes. Does that mean they have no responsibility?

the Labour party imposed a 3 line whip on art 50 without conditions. Come honourable MPs (eg the consistent Mary Creagh) defied that whip and escape blame. Almost all the rest, and all the leadership, voted for Hard Brexit.

Vote for a party that didn't support that.

I'm voting Green.

For all these points i think it depends upon subsequent actions & outcome, ( however unlikely)

If Teresa May voted against article 50, then - presuming it went ahead anyway, with someone else in control - then she'd have less input & control over the eventual outcome.
There is a possibility that having her voting for it & being in control could lead to a better outcome than her voting against, so either way she has some responsibility, but it's not possible to be sure of the outcome.
Same with Labour, they haven't voted for Hard Brexit, but may have enabled it. They may or may not be in a better position now to influence the end result, i can't say for certain what that will be or if a better outcome would have come from them voting against allowing triggering of article 50.

[HindleA]

The frustration is that upcoming local elections,rarely discussed,and diversionary undermining related bollox,I don't at the moment give a toss if the leader is a belisha beacon called Norris.Councils have responsibilities over crucial areas of life and in the face of a Tory government,I humbly suggest in my case continued in house care staff,retention of care homes,free travel for carers,living wage and the like ,I view as a tad important.

[howsillyofme1]

I think tiny has said it well

The question is about tactics

I do not see A50 vote being a moral question particularly rather a political one.

The situation is that we have now a position where Labour haven't voted against the referendum vote but are focused on getting the best resolution now. Steamer has set out some broad principles

The alternative would be that Labour voted against the referendum result and were in the same position of trying to influence the outcome

I believe the former gives them more traction than the latter. Others think different. Neither view can be said to be right or wrong so we should stop telling those of the other opinion that they are wrong and drawing false conclusions

The analogy with Iraq is fundamentally flawed from my perspective....i believed all along Blair was lying and taking us to war on a false premise. That to me is a completely different situation

[AnatolyKasparov]

We keep being told the current Labour leader is unelectable as PM..where do people get that impression from. As with Miliband

Have they met him?

His tv interviews are different but not bad...he is not a slick salesman but I thought we did not want them anymore

Labour policies are not unpopular when explained

Labour and others have stopped a number of Tory policies since 2015

I think we should all accept that Cameron and May have been absolutely useless PM....the country is in a mess because of them. Brexit is because of them

Could it be that the media treatment of Labour has been a major contributor, ably helped by certain Labour politicians?

The media (owned in the main by tax dodging right wing scum) and a pathetic BBC will not seem to allow any positive representation of the left. The only Labour leader acceptable would we one acceptable to people like Hugo!

All of this is correct, and indeed so manifestly so that it is unarguable with unless you are a troll.

And with that, good night

[PaulfromYorkshire]

The frustration is that upcoming local elections,rarely discussed,and diversionary undermining related bollox,I don't at the moment give a toss if the leader is a belisha beacon called Norris.Councils have responsibilities over crucial areas of life and in the face of a Tory government,I humbly suggest in my case continued in house care staff,retention of care homes,free travel for carers,living wage and the like ,I view as a tad important.

Norris for leader

[PaulfromYorkshire]

The frustration is that upcoming local elections,rarely discussed,and diversionary undermining related bollox,I don't at the moment give a toss if the leader is a belisha beacon called Norris.Councils have responsibilities over crucial areas of life and in the face of a Tory government,I humbly suggest in my case continued in house care staff,retention of care homes,free travel for carers,living wage and the like ,I view as a tad important.

Norris for leader

Actually it would be better if Norris were Shadow Foreign Secretary (no disrespect to ET)

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... e-increase" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Labour to promise unpaid carers 17% allowance increase IE a tenner a week,ridiculous headline.

[Tubby Isaacs]

McDonnell pushing the pensions triple lock again.

They think you're an IRA loving twat, John. And you can't afford it.

[HindleA]

@paul

All this vote green repetition made me think of Norris Green where I lived for a while,hence chosen name for belisha beacon.

[howsillyofme1]

Tubby,

Labour have a problem with pensioners voting Tory all the time

I agree with you to a certain extent on the affordability of the pension lock but what is the political option - say you will get rid of it?

The Tories are in power for 3 more years and Brexit will lead to them having problems coming up to 2020 that may require them to drop this

If Labour get to power then drop the policy - the Tories have shown that lying about your policies doesn't make much difference

As to the IRA comment well we can all play that game....plenty of politicians have supported people who have been happy murdering civilians....and worse

And what were the Tory politicians views on Mandela and apartheid back in the day? Cameron had a few skeletons in that cupboard I seem to remember and Bercow was hardly a epitome of rational thought

And what about Mandelson and Kilburn in the past...?

Plenty of people have said or done the wrong thing in the past but only a few seem to be of interest

[pk1]

Health and housing are the only two policy areas where Labour were regarded as being most able to deal with, albeit very marginally, in that yougov poll.

NHS Lab 30 Cons 23
Housing L 22 / C 24
Asylum and immigration L 13 / C 29
Law and order L 13 / C 37
Education and schools L 23 / C 26
Taxation L 19 / C 30
Unemployment L 22 / C 30
The economy in general L 14 / C 38
Britain's exit from the EU L 9 / C 34

Their losing Housing.

I put the numbers the wrong way round. The correct figures are Lab 24 / Con 22 - not much better but marginally in our favour

[HindleA]

Not this fucking" pensioner" using broader definition.

[HindleA]

Self deleted on grounds of bad taste.

[Willow904]

Can somebody confirm?

The policies on private school fees and preferential award of contracts to firms with collective bargaining- are these only allowed because we'll be leaving the Single Market?

If so, then they need cancelling sharpish. The money and jobs at stake in the Single Market are way more important.

It's hard to see how these policies sit alongside any kind of soft Brexit option, or make any attempt to sway the public against going through with Brexit when it comes to the crunch. Quite the opposite, in fact. They seem to be designed to move the conversation on from the soft/hard Brexit debate to an acceptance of hard Brexit as fait accompli with the only detail to settle being what kind of hard Brexit.

[howsillyofme1]

Not this fucking" pensioner" using broader definition.

Absolutely, and many others too

A lack of precision in my post for which I apologise

[HindleA]

No need to apologise.Fair few years from SP,just an excuse to swear,so a thank you more appropriate.

[howsillyofme1]

Can somebody confirm?

The policies on private school fees and preferential award of contracts to firms with collective bargaining- are these only allowed because we'll be leaving the Single Market?

If so, then they need cancelling sharpish. The money and jobs at stake in the Single Market are way more important.

It's hard to see how these policies sit alongside any kind of soft Brexit option, or make any attempt to sway the public against going through with Brexit when it comes to the crunch. Quite the opposite, in fact. They seem to be designed to move the conversation on from the soft/hard Brexit debate to an acceptance of hard Brexit as fait accompli with the only detail to settle being what kind of hard Brexit.

Is there really a soft/hard Brexit debate?

The Tories are aiming for hard and they call the shots

Labour, sensibly, need to consider all options at the moment but also move with the negotiations

The thing we are missing is how the electorate are going to move as the details become clearer

We have discussed in detail what the tactics should be and we have different views...who is right? I am not sure

The thing is though Labour are important but they need Tories to make any impact. Isn't it time we saw a call for the supposed majority of remainers on the Tory bavkbenches to show their hand?

It would be much easier for Labour if those people indicated where they were going to be prepared to pressure May

We saw in the A50 amendment votes just how things will work out if no Tories help

It, and always has been, a Tory decision since the 2015 election.......perhaps if that was the focus instead of concentrating on Labour we could get somewhere

[Tubby Isaacs]

Can somebody confirm?

The policies on private school fees and preferential award of contracts to firms with collective bargaining- are these only allowed because we'll be leaving the Single Market?

If so, then they need cancelling sharpish. The money and jobs at stake in the Single Market are way more important.

It's hard to see how these policies sit alongside any kind of soft Brexit option, or make any attempt to sway the public against going through with Brexit when it comes to the crunch. Quite the opposite, in fact. They seem to be designed to move the conversation on from the soft/hard Brexit debate to an acceptance of hard Brexit as fait accompli with the only detail to settle being what kind of hard Brexit.

It'll be the one that involves Vaseline, if you excuse the crude imagery.

Labour hasn't at all got the message yet that if you've got crap access to your biggest market, and face being turned over by others in trade deals, then you're not in a great position to tell "the man" what to do. At least the Tory's are likely to have an offer- low business taxes, grim though that would be. The "leftwing SNP" got that point too.

[Tubby Isaacs]

HSOM,

Pension raises are very hard to oppose, but Hammond has already raised the affordability of the Triple Lock. I don't think Labour should box itself in. The Tories can always be nastier on working age benefits to free up money, which Labour can't. (And shouldn't).

[Tubby Isaacs]

Health and housing are the only two policy areas where Labour were regarded as being most able to deal with, albeit very marginally, in that yougov poll.

NHS Lab 30 Cons 23
Housing L 22 / C 24
Asylum and immigration L 13 / C 29
Law and order L 13 / C 37
Education and schools L 23 / C 26
Taxation L 19 / C 30
Unemployment L 22 / C 30
The economy in general L 14 / C 38
Britain's exit from the EU L 9 / C 34

And I said "their" instead of "they're". I had 3 words to get right. 3.
Their losing Housing.

I put the numbers the wrong way round. The correct figures are Lab 24 / Con 22 - not much better but marginally in our favour

[howsillyofme1]

Tubby

I don't see it as boxing themselves in. I see it as a party that lost the last two elections trying to do something about a key demographic

The Tories have broken lots of promises and not had any consequences.....Labour need to be a bit dirtier

As to Brexit I ask myself why you always look to portray Labour badly but give the Tories the benefit of the doubt

The Tories will dictate Brexit not Labour....Labour will perhaps have to deal with the consequences though

Can you not imagine Labour will have a much better relationship with the EU than a low tax Tory party? Do you think making us a tax haven is a viable option? It may look nice but it would put us at war with the EU, something Labour would seek to avoid

If you want to really halt a bad Brexit then put pressure on the Tory remainers.......havent seen much about their holding May to account

The Tories are getting away with this as too many Labour supporters are using this as a proxy war against the leadership

If we have a bad Brexit people like Mandelson and Blair will have to take their share of the blame too for their inept interventions

It is all about the Tories.....look who has the key votes!

[HindleA]

http://www.carersuk.org/news-and-campai ... -allowance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Carers UK response


Today the Labour Party has announced a new policy to raise the level of Carer’s Allowance to the equivalent of Job Seeker’s Allowance.

Carer’s Allowance is currently £62.70 a week for a minimum of 35 hours caring – equivalent to £1.79 an hour. It is not available to those who earn more than £116 per week after deductions or to those in receipt of the full basic state pension.



Responding to the announcement, Emily Holzhausen OBE, Director of Policy at Carers UK, said:

“For many, taking on a caring role for an older or disabled loved one brings a significant financial penalty. The unpaid care provided by the UK’s carers has been valued at £132 billion per year, but comes at a cost to families who are caring. Higher utility bills, care related expenses and the limited capacity to work alongside caring all contribute to a higher poverty rate among carers and financial disadvantage that can continue into later life. Our Survey of over 5000 cares found that half of those caring for 35 hours a week or more are in financial hardship.

The announcement pledging to increase has Carer’s Allowance the level of Job Seeker’s Allowance – something which we have called for to begin to tackle the financial hardship that carers face – would make a difference to carers. A commitment to raising Carer’s Allowance to the level of Job Seeker’s Allowance has already been made by all political parties in Scotland and we urge the Government to use the new Carer’s Strategy due this Spring to make a similar or more generous commitment.

It is vital that for those receiving Carer’s Allowance alongside a means tested benefit, the amount of the Carer’s Allowance they can keep – known as the carer premium, addition or element – is increased so they too benefit from this policy.”

[HindleA]

Agreed in Scotland for some time,well known Marxist spenthrift Keith Joseph a main sponsor of its predecesser,albeit in limited form.

[HindleA]

Simply no moral,economic cogent argument against.