Wednesday 19th April 2017

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:01 pm

HindleA wrote:Well fucking make a request to have me bloody banned,damn you all.

Don't Walk Away, Hindle A.

That sounds much better if sung to the tune of the Four Tops "Walk Away Rene"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:01 pm

Maybe I should at least look at the paperwork,at what my responsibilities are/could be.I shudder at being in charge of a pencil,but felt obliged to accept her faith in me,nevertheless.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:21 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not happy about the NEC announcement that Labour members won't have any opportunity to select their own candidates for this GE.

Smells of a convenient Watson/McNicol stitch-up, I'm afraid.

Yes. Plenty of scope for subsequent cries of betrayal there. Seems cowardly too. A few like Creasy would have been in trouble, but only a handful.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:22 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Please don't start on our volunteer mods. They're not obliged to try to police this increasingly strange locale and we would be lost without them.

On Hugo - I've stayed out of this mostly, but I would say that whether s/he intends it or not, the board often degenerates into unpleasantness when s/he's fanning the flames of discontent. On the other hand, I always like hearing from TE and Tubby just as much as I enjoyed hearing from Ephemerid and Toby. PF goes without saying - oil/troubled waters (she's the former). Tolerance is what the board intended.

I think, and have said this before, it would do everyone a favour if we proceeded as follows:

If YOU think someone is a troll (or whatever the appropriate term) do not engage with them and leave it at that.

This will reduce the troll-other poster arguments, while managing to avoid inadvertently banning someone who is simply a poor communicator, and avoid kicking someone off who other people like engaging with. If there was someone here one of us would like to see the back of (for whatever reason) but other people enjoyed chatting with them, how would that work?

(PS: don't be cross, am not trying to kick up a fuss here, just want things here to get/stay better).

Would you accept this in your real world life.

Think about it, someone has come into your home, talks to your friends, gives the impression you are on the same page with your virws, but you know you are not. You retreat to your room taking the line of least resistence hoping this person will go away or shut up, or that you could actually discuss your real concerns, but you let in a couple of friends, but in the meantime this person has the run of your home, may even bring friends in, has dubious motivation, meanwhile your family are also staying in their rooms, and occasionally some of the bolder ones try to dislodge this intruder, for that is in fact what it is.

Friends stop visiting, because the ease and liveliness once in your home has disappeared. Sometimes old friends visit and think perhaps they can help. But in a way you and your family have not done what is needed. You should have reported your intruder (your friends already tried this on your behalf) and had him removed. But becuase you are not up for that battle you ask your friends to leave, or even ban them or threaten them with banning because you really really don't like any kind of trouble. The intruder is hungry, you feed it, it will only talk about its own interests and you don't really like them but reward yourself when you hear something you think is remotely acceptable. Your intruder has control of your home has your cards, won't go away. You are grimly fascinated by this situation which is actually an abusive relationship. However you do still have a way out. you left your keys with someone else, a friend, he could chuck your intruder out, and with other friends make sure that the bizarre state of your home is made ok again. But you are now conditioned to see this situation as normal. And because the intruder threw you a biscuit once in a way and once made you a cup of tea you think they are ok. But when your friends who do like you and miss the easiness of other times have done their best, and you are still eating stale and tasteless biscuits while giving thanks, then most just give up. Of course it is in your hands. Though I have to say if you do have courage, then the relief is wonderful.

(ps you probably are at the stage where you think I am part of the problem and a couple of other old friends of yours too, and of course there are the missing, and the long gone, ones you only ever saw a couple times, but I can remember when this was a generous space inhabited by a lot more people, congenial ones too, and where you could come night or day, because there was mostly someone here, you could sit in quietly in a companionable wsy or you could join in, just say hi, or flit in and share a few minutes with like minded people, but mostly it just felt a goid place to be. Occasionalky I get a hint of that old feeling, but on the whole it is bloody hard work. Dealing with finding something real amongst the ghastly heap of opinion is very hard work made worse because it is now so much harder to distinguish between the two. Only made worth it by the nuggets of pure gold, otherwise known as good information.)
There you go. I always mean to be succinct but end up with a fucking book.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:24 pm

I'm even willing to accept sitting MPs/candidates can be automatically reselected should they wish - it *is* a tight timetable.

But IMO allowing members to take part in any actual vacancies should be a minimum.

And I think there could well be attempts to get that concession at least.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:31 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Perhaps because you don't have an answer?
Stop trolling. I note that you are currently hammering Hugo for answering a question you posted yourself.

hsom is no troll. neither am I and neither is tem. Nor are we acting together, or discussing the way we post here. See post by refitman. I for one would be very sad to see this place go. While thing got more heated here than I could ever have imagined, the knowledge that a lot of likeminded peope gathered here daily kept me alive, my first post on returning was along the lines of my god, what happened here.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:37 pm

refitman wrote:There are times when I think the money spent paying for the site would be better spent on something constructive.

But then where would we find the excellent info that gets posted here, month after month which almost never gets discussed? (Thanks for everything you do and have done. I return here because there are food people and reading them still clears away the confusion.

)

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:46 pm

HindleA wrote:@Toby sent a message by carrier pigeon,his name is Lenny,not the most reliable and should have retired a few years ago to be honest but likes to be helpful.May take a few days but hopefully should arrive in the next few days,unless he eats it.

Will you make him custom clogs when he gets there? I like the idea of a kick-ass carrier pigeon.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 4:51 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
refitman wrote:There are times when I think the money spent paying for the site would be better spent on something constructive.
But then where would we find the excellent info that gets posted here, month after month which almost never gets discussed? (Thanks for everything you do and have done. I return here because there are food people and reading them still clears away the confusion. )

And there are times when I think the money is already well spent (thanks also to Hindle and PF).

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:00 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm even willing to accept sitting MPs/candidates can be automatically reselected should they wish - it *is* a tight timetable.

But IMO allowing members to take part in any actual vacancies should be a minimum.

And I think there could well be attempts to get that concession at least.

Seems bad. As I've said before though, I think allowing individual constituencies the choice leads to the same kinds of candidates being selected, and is bad for diversity. At least allowing the centre control will mean we get a wider range of people chosen for the free slots.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:03 pm

No pacts.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/snap-gene ... our-2017-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:08 pm

Hi Toby (waves)
This place could really do with a bit of your humour!
Not sure if you are still around, but great to see you.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:19 pm

seeingclearly wrote:Hi Toby (waves)
This place could really do with a bit of your humour!
Not sure if you are still around, but great to see you.

Thank you

Still popping in now and then.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:43 pm

Good to see that Ken Clarke has apparently changed his mind and will stand again - we need some sensible Remain voices on the Tory side.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:45 pm

refitman wrote: And there are times when I think the money is already well spent (thanks also to Hindle and PF).

Happy to contribute if the money does get to be an issue, as I'm sure others are. I'd guessing the modding effort is actually more significant, we are very grateful to you.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:45 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Good to see that Ken Clarke has apparently changed his mind and will stand again - we need some sensible Remain voices on the Tory side.

More than one would be good.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:48 pm

George Osborne knew which paper should have the exclusive story he would stand down as an MP the next election; the one he is soon to edit, the London Evening Standard. He just didn’t realise it had such early deadlines.

In perhaps the first sign that a man with no previous experience of journalism has much to learn in his new gig running London’s daily paper, he decided to give his new team the scoop just a little too late to be published in anything other than a specially produced slip edition.

Veteran political editor Joe Murphy launched the exclusive with a tweet before lunch, but after the paper is printed.

Outgoing editor Sarah Sands, an old newspaper hand about to turn radio boss, quickly ordered an extra slip edition, seen by relatively few commuters on Wednesday.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:53 pm

That famous GO strategic brilliance again!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 5:55 pm

gilsey wrote:
George Osborne knew which paper should have the exclusive story he would stand down as an MP the next election; the one he is soon to edit, the London Evening Standard. He just didn’t realise it had such early deadlines.

In perhaps the first sign that a man with no previous experience of journalism has much to learn in his new gig running London’s daily paper, he decided to give his new team the scoop just a little too late to be published in anything other than a specially produced slip edition.

Veteran political editor Joe Murphy launched the exclusive with a tweet before lunch, but after the paper is printed.

Outgoing editor Sarah Sands, an old newspaper hand about to turn radio boss, quickly ordered an extra slip edition, seen by relatively few commuters on Wednesday.

Yes - I laughed like a drain when I read it. But I assume he gets paid, so what does he care?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:01 pm

Oh, God. Theresa May on TV now, addressing the faithful. She's sporting that Jacob Marley chain thing again.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:01 pm

Gisela Stuart quits.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:02 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Gisela Stuart quits.

Every cloud . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:10 pm

I still ask (and it's a simple, straightforward question) - what's changed?

Post by **refitman** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:12 pm

Impressive that BBC news found only positive voices for May and negative for Corbyn, in Bolton.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:I still ask (and it's a simple, straightforward question) - what's changed?

Nowt.

The idea that the EU would suddenly change their tactics because she has a few more seats in the Commons is fairly risible.

It's about (i) polls and (ii) fear that Corbyn might go before 2020. Pretty sure I saw something which suggested he could have quit after the May locals. Those are going to prove very interesting...

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:18 pm

BBC and ITV will empty chair Theresa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/b ... mg00000067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:21 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I still ask (and it's a simple, straightforward question) - what's changed?
Nowt.

The idea that the EU would suddenly change their tactics because she has a few more seats in the Commons is fairly risible.

It's about (i) polls and (ii) fear that Corbyn might go before 2020. Pretty sure I saw something which suggested he could have quit after the May locals. Those are going to prove very interesting...

I haven't heard one single commentator ask my question. They ask Theresa May why she changed her mind about a General Election - but that's a different question, and is one which gives her the chance to slide around.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:25 pm

Temulkar wrote:BBC and ITV will empty chair Theresa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/b ... mg00000067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If true, something encouraging.

Maybe the broadcasters at least are waking up to the reality that "elected" dictatorship a la Erdogan/Orban is actually not in their own interests.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:25 pm

refitman wrote:Impressive that BBC news found only positive voices for May and negative for Corbyn, in Bolton.

Great start to the campaign for the BBC there. Pienaar offered sterling service too. Not sure if he's emerged from Osborne's anus just yet, but there'll be a round of applause when he does.

Oh and here's fucking Brenda "not another election" from Bristol again. Because this matters far more than fraud or any such trifles.

The new Gillian Duffy. Just what we needed.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:26 pm

ANDY Burnham is stepping down as Leigh's MP.

The former shadow home secretary is hoping to become the first elected mayor of Greater Manchester next month.

But even if he fails to be elected on May 4 he has decided not to stand in the upcoming general election.

http://www.leighjournal.co.uk/news/1523 ... eigh_s_MP/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:27 pm

Temulkar wrote:BBC and ITV will empty chair Theresa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/b ... mg00000067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unless I've misread your linked article, they seem to be intending to go ahead without Theresa May - but I see no indication that they will be showing an empty podium where she should\could be (which is my definition of "empty chairing"). Symbolism and all that.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:38 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
refitman wrote:Impressive that BBC news found only positive voices for May and negative for Corbyn, in Bolton.
Great start to the campaign for the BBC there. Pienaar offered sterling service too. Not sure if he's emerged from Osborne's anus just yet, but there'll be a round of applause when he does.

Oh and here's fucking Brenda "not another election" from Bristol again. Because this matters far more than fraud or any such trifles.

The new Gillian Duffy. Just what we needed.

At least she's not a witless bigot, I suppose.

We must be grateful for small mercies like that at this time.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:39 pm

Belated hello to Toby.
You are much missed.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:41 pm

gilsey wrote:
refitman wrote: And there are times when I think the money is already well spent (thanks also to Hindle and PF).
Happy to contribute if the money does get to be an issue, as I'm sure others are. I'd guessing the modding effort is actually more significant, we are very grateful to you.

indeed

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 6:59 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ard-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gina Miller to launch tactical voting initiative against hard Brexit
Campaigner whose legal challenge forced No 10 to seek parliamentary approval for article 50 sets out Best For Britain plan

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:00 pm

In a possible sign of appetite among progressives to put party affiliation aside on 8 June, a crowdfunding page set up immediately after Theresa May called the snap election quickly exceeded initial financial targets on Wednesday.
https://www.gofundme.com/whats-best-for-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:02 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Belated hello to Toby.
You are much missed.

Howdy

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:06 pm

Martin George‏Verified account
@geomr

Following
More
The DfE says it will not publish its response to grammar school or funding consultations before the general election

Not that hard to guess what they said really is it?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:15 pm

The Dennis:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/tory- ... 90881.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Will the Prime Minister give a guarantee that no Tory MP who is under investigation by the police and the legal authorities over election expenses in the last general election be a candidate in this election?” he asked

“Because if she won’t accept that this is the most squalid election campaign that has happened in my lifetime.”

Ms May replied: “I stand by all the Conservative MPs who are in this House and who will be out there standing again campaigning, campaigning for a Conservative government that will give a brighter and better future for this country.”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:17 pm

The Donaeld:

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 6h6 hours ago

Thegn Osbjorn to step down from high horse to concentrate on telling totally true sagas of highest Standard for me. Thanks Gideon, great guy

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:23 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90361.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May has refused to give more details of her Brexit plan even as the country prepares for a general election, but denied she is asking for a “blank cheque” from voters at the ballot box.

Despite asking for a greater mandate to conduct critical talks with the EU, the Prime Minister would not offer any more insight on the difficult compromises she will have to make to win a deal from Brussels.

So it's a vote on Brexit but without the Brexit bit.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:26 pm

I'd prefer most of the current events we're living through were safely within the confines of history or fiction
Mr citizen is securing chocolate provision

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:31 pm

I have visions of a clog wearing army takeover of Cadbury's.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:52 pm

HindleA wrote:I have visions of a clog wearing army takeover of Cadbury's.

I've similar visions restoration of old recipe for crème eggs

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 7:57 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I still ask (and it's a simple, straightforward question) - what's changed?
Nowt.

The idea that the EU would suddenly change their tactics because she has a few more seats in the Commons is fairly risible.

It's about (i) polls and (ii) fear that Corbyn might go before 2020. Pretty sure I saw something which suggested he could have quit after the May locals. Those are going to prove very interesting...

They've proven quite poor guides in the past when just before a GE.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 8:05 pm

I wonder if people will be allowed to vote the Tories out?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 8:08 pm

T May is asking people to vote for her Tory government now?
The way she's asked, little warning, breaking her word, providing asinine justification for it

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 8:09 pm

Humanity.

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/04/19/cam ... ive-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 8:12 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:I have visions of a clog wearing army takeover of Cadbury's.
I've similar visions restoration of old recipe for crème eggs

'Brexit' was never necessary to implement the restoration

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 8:18 pm

From the Independent's adstravaganza:

AWESOME WAYS TO USE STRING LIGHTS NOT JUST FOR THE HOLIDAY SEASON

what does that even mean?
I have no understanding of the current version of the world.