Monday 24th April 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 7:11 am

Morning all.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 8:17 am

Morning.

George surely in the running for "Gall of the Year" (pun intended!)

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:37 am

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Housing associations are critically important, but have lost their way

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/voluntary-s ... ety-reform" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charities must campaign in this election – society needs bold reform
Vicky Browning

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:47 am

Same shit, different day:

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Ridiculous that she's in that job.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:48 am

NonOxCol wrote:Same shit, different day:

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Ridiculous that she's in that job.

Not that the point needs elaboration, but...

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SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:59 am

Well, at least Blairism is triumphing somewhere.

Post by **adam** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 9:59 am

PS in France saw off final catastrophe by polling above 5% - some reports beforehand said that failing to pass the threshold for state funding of their campaign would have bankrupted them.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:04 am

The level of denial in responses to Michael White here is fascinating...

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:08 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Well, at least Blairism is triumphing somewhere.

It can still do so, it seems, if its main opposition is an outright fascist. I expect that might be the case in this country as well.

Doesn't alter the wider critique of "third way" politics.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:10 am

So.......Corbyn on Marr giving (in my opinion) a perfectly sensible alternative to gung ho attitudes elsewhere

Result the media in self induced melt down.

Patrick Mcloughlin gives a car crash of interview on Sunday Politics.

Result the media in complete silence

Comical Ali (as perceptively described by Polly Toynbee) Fallon on BBC TV this morning given the easiest of rides.

It seems to me the only BBC interviewer who can actually ask a follow up question based on the interviewees answer is Andrew Neil.

With very few exceptions our political interviewers/correspondents are not only personally biased but also professionally incompetent

(Edited to make sense)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:18 am

: Ed.PNG (25.38 KiB) Viewed 15608 times

Tories and right wing press are tying themselves up in knots trying to explain why it was the end of the world when Ed proposed it but perfectly fine when May does

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:36 am

Dearie me, the horror of this election as it unfolds...

ConservativeHome‏ @ConHome 15m15 minutes ago
More
EXCLUSIVE: @EstherMcVey1 shortlisted for Tatton

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:36 am

Good lord what a fucknut:

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Hey Mike: it generally works the same over here as well!

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:38 am

Well, here's a front page that needs no further comment (it's not even the Mail):

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Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:47 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Dearie me, the horror of this election as it unfolds...

ConservativeHome‏ @ConHome 15m15 minutes ago
More
EXCLUSIVE: @EstherMcVey1 shortlisted for Tatton

It could get worse, although I think this one is more for the gossip pages:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/m ... -richmond/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might Zac Goldsmith crawl back to the Tories in Richmond?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:57 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Well, at least Blairism is triumphing somewhere.
It can still do so, it seems, if its main opposition is an outright fascist. I expect that might be the case in this country as well.

Doesn't alter the wider critique of "third way" politics.

There were no other opponents?

I am not sure you've followed this all that carefully.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:14 am

Love this response by David Lammy.

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:30 am

Good-morning, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:40 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Love this response by David Lammy.

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Lammy handled that awful tweet with good-natured humour
Liked the other responses too, correcting awful tweet hilarious grammatical error
Unless it wasn't a grammatical error just a bizarre awful tweet

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:50 am

I'm sure many of you will join me in thanking the BBC for their sterling work in legitimising this bunch over the years, as the inevitable finally happens:

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:54 am

#Ban beards,moustaches,specs,monocles,make up,suspiciously long hair,sideburns,suncream

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 11:54 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Well, at least Blairism is triumphing somewhere.
It can still do so, it seems, if its main opposition is an outright fascist. I expect that might be the case in this country as well.

Doesn't alter the wider critique of "third way" politics.
There were no other opponents?

I am not sure you've followed this all that carefully.

I certainly have.

Which means that I have also noticed that a pretty much outright Stalinist got close to 20%, nearly beating the "establishment" right candidate into 4th.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:03 pm

For PorFavor courtesy of Maeght

Michael Rosen wrote a letter to the Guardian and had it published:

I was disgusted to see Jeremy Corbyn not only reading our book Bear Hunt to a group of small children but also showing them the text (Election 2017, 22 April). Schools minister Nick Gibb explained to me that it’s “dangerous” to let young children see “non-phonically regular” texts as it “confuses” them; children in such situations will “guess” the words, or use “other cues”, like the grammar of the sentence or context of the story. If I understand the Gibb theory correctly, I should say that it may have looked as if the children were enjoying themselves, but Corbyn was in fact exposing them to great risks.
Michael Rosen
London

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:09 pm

Willow904 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Dearie me, the horror of this election as it unfolds...

ConservativeHome‏ @ConHome 15m15 minutes ago
More
EXCLUSIVE: @EstherMcVey1 shortlisted for Tatton
It could get worse, although I think this one is more for the gossip pages:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/m ... -richmond/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Might Zac Goldsmith crawl back to the Tories in Richmond?

There is an argument this should be hoped for, as it makes it less likely the Tories will win it back.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:30 pm

Good morfternoon.

Edited - typo

Yep. You read that right!

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:34 pm

Just in case anyone was trying to convince themselves the Mail piece on the "Le Pen surge" was all about the headline:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rated.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:42 pm

Their reaction in a fortnight after she has hopefully been thrashed will be fascinating to observe.

Let's not forget shall we that one of Macron's main platforms is being strongly pro-EU. This makes him almost the personification of evil for our Brexit press.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 12:56 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... orship-ban" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kids Company founder Camila Batmanghelidjh 'facing directorship ban'
Insolvency Service reportedly wants to disqualify ex-board members including Alan Yentob over roles in collapsed charity

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:30 pm

George Freeman (Con, Mid Norfolk) quickly tweeted congratulation to Macron. I don't know whether many have followed.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:40 pm

I'm not sure Fillon was the establishment right candidate really. They'd have had Juppe, but the primary contest got away from them, as such processes are wont to do. Fillon is a religious righter, far too brutal about cuts, and he wouldn't stand down when he should have done.

Plus, the first round is an open invitation to "speak your branes", and vote for somebody "who wants to shake things up". The second round isn't, luckily.

I'll say for Fillon that he gets Le Pen properly, even if he was after her southern voters.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:40 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... orship-ban

Kids Company founder Camila Batmanghelidjh 'facing directorship ban'
Insolvency Service reportedly wants to disqualify ex-board members including Alan Yentob over roles in collapsed charity

This might have been embarrassing had he still been PM...

Kids Company collapsed in the summer of 2015, a month after it received a £3m government grant backed by the then prime minister, David Cameron.

Failure of governance and failure of funders to ask the right questions. Same can now be seen in academy trusts.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:44 pm

Yep.

I think there were a few other "supportive" ministers with Kids Company, weren't there? Any of those still in office?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:46 pm

Willow904 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Dearie me, the horror of this election as it unfolds...

ConservativeHome‏ @ConHome 15m15 minutes ago
More
EXCLUSIVE: @EstherMcVey1 shortlisted for Tatton
It could get worse, although I think this one is more for the gossip pages:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/m ... -richmond/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Might Zac Goldsmith crawl back to the Tories in Richmond?

Not worth them having him. They probably aren't short of people who want to be MP for Richmond. Might not hurt them to get a soft Brexiter in.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:47 pm

Do the Mail know that the only people cheering on Brexit are fascists, Trump, Putin and pub bores?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 1:54 pm

ScarletGas wrote:So.......Corbyn on Marr giving (in my opinion) a perfectly sensible alternative to gung ho attitudes elsewhere

Result the media in self induced melt down.

Patrick Mcloughlin gives a car crash of interview on Sunday Politics.

Result the media in complete silence

Comical Ali (as perceptively described by Polly Toynbee) Fallon on BBC TV this morning given the easiest of rides.

It seems to me the only BBC interviewer who can actually ask a follow up question based on the interviewees answer is Andrew Neil.

With very few exceptions our political interviewers/correspondents are not only personally biased but also professionally incompetent

(Edited to make sense)

Corbyn doesn't have a sensible attitude to gung-ho elsewhere, I'm afraid.

He (via Milne) said he wouldn't defend a NATO ally attacked by Putin. While it's ridiculous that it's being treated as the most important issue in the general election, this stuff is a completely unnecessary open goal for the other parties, and a huge insult to allies from whom we need goodwill more than ever before.

Post by **adam** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:03 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Do the Mail know that the only people cheering on Brexit are fascists, Trump, Putin and pub bores?

So, most of the country, then?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:06 pm

Labour showing improvement in this one, but within the margin of error.

Westminster voting intentions:

CON: 48% (+2)
LAB: 27% (+2)
LDEM: 10% (-1)
UKIP: 7% (-1)
GRN: 3% (-1)

(ICM for Guardian, 21-24 April)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:19 pm

adam wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Do the Mail know that the only people cheering on Brexit are fascists, Trump, Putin and pub bores?
So, most of the country, then?

International pub bores!

Something like the 13% who voted UKIP in 2015. Not a bunch of people whose opinions you should worry about too much.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:24 pm

Harry Cole‏Verified account
@MrHarryCole

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Paul Nuttall is currently locked himself in this room and is refusing to say if he will fight a seat at the election.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:27 pm

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750 fish processing jobs at risk in Brexit Grimsby.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:33 pm

It must be difficult being a harpist and not think you're having a flashback every time you start to play.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:35 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Harry Cole‏Verified account
@MrHarryCole

Follow
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Paul Nuttall is currently locked himself in this room and is refusing to say if he will fight a seat at the election.

I've just seen it on TV. Mind you, if I'd just launched policies like the ones I've been reading about, I wouldn't be standing, either.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:38 pm

And again, I ask -

Where's tinyclanger2?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 2:44 pm

So The Mail and The Times feature Le Pen heavily in their newspapers and coincidentally May and the Tories haven't given Macron their support.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 3:00 pm

hello - apologies for absence - am on location somewhere with diminished internet access and can only sporadically connect to the wider world. Normal service will resume once folks round 'ere are no longer actually from round 'ere.
Am keeping up with posts reading as much as I can - appreciated as ever.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 3:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:hello - apologies for absence - am on location somewhere with diminished internet access and can only sporadically connect to the wider world. Normal service will resume once folks round 'ere are no longer actually from round 'ere.
Am keeping up with posts reading as much as I can - appreciated as ever.

Good to read you!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 3:46 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... pportunity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Social care green paper is an opportunity too important to be missed

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 3:48 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ScarletGas wrote:So.......Corbyn on Marr giving (in my opinion) a perfectly sensible alternative to gung ho attitudes elsewhere

Result the media in self induced melt down.

Patrick Mcloughlin gives a car crash of interview on Sunday Politics.

Result the media in complete silence

Comical Ali (as perceptively described by Polly Toynbee) Fallon on BBC TV this morning given the easiest of rides.

It seems to me the only BBC interviewer who can actually ask a follow up question based on the interviewees answer is Andrew Neil.

With very few exceptions our political interviewers/correspondents are not only personally biased but also professionally incompetent

(Edited to make sense)
Corbyn doesn't have a sensible attitude to gung-ho elsewhere, I'm afraid.

He (via Milne) said he wouldn't defend a NATO ally attacked by Putin. While it's ridiculous that it's being treated as the most important issue in the general election, this stuff is a completely unnecessary open goal for the other parties, and a huge insult to allies from whom we need goodwill more than ever before.

Tubby (if I may be so bold) thank you for your response.

Firstly let me make it clear I am no "Corbynista" indeed I am not even a member of the Labour party. I do,however,as you would expect being on this board, have left leaning political views.

As a regular "lurker" and infrequent poster I read your contributions with interest. They are,generally,logical,thoughtful and I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

In this case,however,I am afraid we have to disagree. You have an opinion and as I stated in my opening remarks this is mine. I admit to not being an expert in defence policy but Corbyn (again) in my view came across as measured and thoughtful in his remarks to Marr.You,of course, may see it differently.

The main thrust of my post was to point out (probably preaching to the converted) not only the bias but incompetence (deliberate or not) of political reporting in this country.

I am sorry to say that, sometimes, this forum too easily falls into the same trap.

To this end I note no comment from you (so far) on the interviews by Farron this morning especially his statement on being prepared to use nuclear weapons first. Is this not worthy of criticism?

There was no comment on the Andrew Neil interview with Patrick Mcloughlin which even David Wooding of the Sun thought was a "car crash" was this not worthy of comment?

It is indicative to me that the only comment to a post about media bias was selective in a criticism of Corbyn and no mention of anything else relating.

To be clear whilst this relates to your response I do not include you in the (one or two) unthinking critics who it seems to me would probably try to pin the blame for the weather on Corbyn.

Can we not, at least amongst ourselves, at least give criticism (where deserved) to all sides of the political spectrum rather than concentrating on Labour and ignoring the lies and half truths spouted by the tories and their media acolytes.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 4:07 pm

StephenDolan wrote:So The Mail and The Times feature Le Pen heavily in their newspapers and coincidentally May and the Tories haven't given Macron their support.

The Times doesn't seem all that bad, generally. They got the "Trump puts UK at the back of the queue story" on the front page. I'd be surprised if they were egging on Le Pen.

May ought to be getting a very hard time for not backing Macron.