Thursday 27th April 2017

Post by **refitman** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 7:12 am

Morning

Children's hospital units forced to close to new patients due to staff shortages
Lack of paediatric doctors and nurses across the UK also means care children receive is at risk, says the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -shortages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 7:29 am

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better Care Fund 'little more than ruse' to paper over funding pressures

Appallingly casual attitude' to targets for reducing emergency admissions and delayed transfers of care.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 7:37 am

Good morning. This is the BBC. Here are the headlines.

Boris called Jeremy a Mugwump. It said so in the Sun.

Election fraud. Wouldn't know about that.

Seriously though, another thing that exasperates me is the number of centre-left types on Twitter who still think the BBC is fine because both sides criticise it. Five minutes on Google would tell you it's really not ok.

Mind you, most of these people work in TV/media, which must be a coincidence.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 7:37 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/h ... 18b2d02?z2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here’s Why Labour Thinks It Can Solve Britain’s Toxic Housing Crisis

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 7:50 am

Garnier to step down apparently.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 8:03 am

Admittedly,I haven't listened to for a while,my main gripe was the simplification which aided acceptance (hard not to view on purpose) of Government line particularly re.social security.eg.no sane person would view a necessary room as not needed,presented as debateable.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 8:09 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Patients struggling to get GP appointments, watchdog finds
Public accounts committee also says there is ‘no credible plan’ to stem fall in number of GPs or to recruit more to meet demand

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ambulance services:-

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 8:11 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep, that's about the size of it.

Oh, and look who agrees with the BBC priorities:

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(edited to add TND)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 8:21 am

Unless he means resemblance to Edgar Allan,his spelling is atrocious.Literacy classes for TND.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 8:26 am

Going to repost this from last night as I missed the discussion during the day (because something somewhere on the page caught work's 'pron' filter)

I think saying he won't attend debates if she won't is a terrible, terrible idea. With her not there, empty chair or not, then if the others turn on him he can make it clear that he's the one actually fighting the government. If not they can all tear into the absent tories. If he doesn't turn up the rest of them will and that's when they will all be claiming to be the only opposition in their part of the world, with nobody to reply for Labour.

Terrible idea.

(An aside - for legitimate reasons (no really) Claire Rayner's definition came up in class yesterday - erotica is when you stroke a feather across the skin, p*rnography is when you use the whole chicken).

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 8:32 am

adam wrote:Going to repost this from last night as I missed the discussion during the day (because something somewhere on the page caught work's 'pron' filter)

I think saying he won't attend debates if she won't is a terrible, terrible idea. With her not there, empty chair or not, then if the others turn on him he can make it clear that he's the one actually fighting the government. If not they can all tear into the absent tories. If he doesn't turn up the rest of them will and that's when they will all be claiming to be the only opposition in their part of the world, with nobody to reply for Labour.

Terrible idea.
(An aside - for legitimate reasons (no really) Claire Rayner's definition came up in class yesterday - erotica is when you stroke a feather across the skin, p*rnography is when you use the whole chicken).

Second time in a week I've heard that quote - Sanjeev Bhaskar used it on the Radio 5 film review show.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:06 am

adam wrote:Going to repost this from last night as I missed the discussion during the day (because something somewhere on the page caught work's 'pron' filter)

I think saying he won't attend debates if she won't is a terrible, terrible idea. With her not there, empty chair or not, then if the others turn on him he can make it clear that he's the one actually fighting the government. If not they can all tear into the absent tories. If he doesn't turn up the rest of them will and that's when they will all be claiming to be the only opposition in their part of the world, with nobody to reply for Labour.

Terrible idea.
(An aside - for legitimate reasons (no really) Claire Rayner's definition came up in class yesterday - erotica is when you stroke a feather across the skin, p*rnography is when you use the whole chicken).

Is my memory failing me on how this panned out in 2015?

As I recall, I insisted that Miliband would not do the debates if Cameron refused. I was proven wrong as Miliband said he would do them. And then Cameron gave in?

Have I misremembered this?

Clearly now there will be no tv debates. Which is a shame because May will be less good in this format than Cameron was (which is why she ducked them). (I of course think Corbyn would be useless, he is a stump politician.)

The impact of the debates last time was for English viewers to see Sturgeon, decide they didn't fancy that, and voted Tory. Neither Miliband nor Cameron landed a knock out blow, or indeed said anything very memorable.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:11 am

This chap is sensible

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... t-it-wrong" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Things very unlikely to be as bad for Labour as polls suggest.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:24 am

NonOxCol wrote:
adam wrote:Going to repost this from last night as I missed the discussion during the day (because something somewhere on the page caught work's 'pron' filter)

I think saying he won't attend debates if she won't is a terrible, terrible idea. With her not there, empty chair or not, then if the others turn on him he can make it clear that he's the one actually fighting the government. If not they can all tear into the absent tories. If he doesn't turn up the rest of them will and that's when they will all be claiming to be the only opposition in their part of the world, with nobody to reply for Labour.

Terrible idea.
(An aside - for legitimate reasons (no really) Claire Rayner's definition came up in class yesterday - erotica is when you stroke a feather across the skin, p*rnography is when you use the whole chicken).
Second time in a week I've heard that quote - Sanjeev Bhaskar used it on the Radio 5 film review show.

I haven't caught up with last week but I tell them to listen - perhaps they actually have been!

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:24 am

Johnson calling Corbyn a Mutton headed old mugwump is surely the pot calling the kettle.......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:34 am

Good morfternoon.

Does Boris Johnson know what "mugwump" means? It would appear not. Trouble is, I expect most people think it means what he thinks (or would like them to think) that it means.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:42 am

Morning

On 2015, Cameron only agreed to do the debates with everyone there and refused to debate with Miliband alone....coward that he is

I am not sure that Corbyn saying now he would not do a debate without May is a great idea but as I explained yesterday I do understand why he does not want to do them if may is not there. I don't think it is a terrible idea not to d them - it may not be the right one (and who can say) but it could also be a terrible idea to do it if he gets ganged up on by the others.....and I am assuming that he will be

May will not do them because she is an awful communicator, is a liar and does not answer questions. Cameron was the same apart from the fact he was a better communicator

As always though the focus is back on Corbyn - a man who actually wants debates where the real villain of the piece is a Tory PM abetted by the media who are all trying to make this a pseudo Presidential election but do not want the electorate to be goven the opportunity to see the two people 'candidates' for PM debating face to face

Of course, the risk is much higher for the sitting PM specially in this election, who is more incompetent than Corbyn with worse policies (all seems to be about 'strong and stable') and is an awful communicator

The media are not going to push this much either because they are helping the Tories by focusing on Corbyn rather than the deficiencies of May

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:50 am

PF he knows the definition of being an adulterous,lying,bullying,festering piece of excrement,be in no doubt.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:55 am

Instead of sinking to their level,I pointed out his better points.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 9:56 am

Isn't what Corbyn said yesterday an attempt to up the ante on May? Or it can at least be read that way, rather than a simple "no debates".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 10:23 am

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... m-12949680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tributes paid as campaigning Hillsborough mum Sandra Stringer dies one year on from inquest verdict

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 10:26 am

Worth remembering that the Today programme has long been even worse than the BBC generally. Simple answer really - don't listen to it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 10:38 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Isn't what Corbyn said yesterday an attempt to up the ante on May? Or it can at least be read that way, rather than a simple "no debates".

Yes, I thought so and it's good.
T May called the GE, she's the one looking for more control though she's already in control.
It's a mistake trying making sense of nonsensical actions, politely doing what the front page says we should do, showing up to leadership debates the current leader won't do though it's a GE she initiated. Don't play Tory nutters' games.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 10:49 am

@howsillyofme1
You called it correctly on yesterday's thread. If the PM initiating the GE isn't deigning to debate, the Labour leader isn't under any obligation to do so. Why? What for? It's T May's idea, this election. I can't understand her thinking. It's insulting as hell. She wants people to vote Tory, give her a bigger majority? Why? Why should people vote Tory when the Tory leader won't stand up and debate other party leaders?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 11:08 am

Seven years into Tory leadership country and people sinking under Tories intentionally not funding social and health care properly, staff leaving the country, collapsed currency, warnings from UK industry over 'Brexit', Dave Cameron's fiasco implemented by another Tory PM wanting a GE she'd repeatedly refused prior flipping the Article 50 switch. No one on the Tory front bench or behind it have the first idea how to implement Tory 'Brexit'. Tory failure, completely orchestrated by a Tory government.

A headline at the other place indicates 'it's going to be a bloodbath' for Labour.

Insanity.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 12:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ent-target" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CHunt broke law by axing NHS 18-week treatment target, says Labour

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 12:35 pm

Elite squad of collared dove strategic bombers on manoeuvres.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 12:46 pm

Lib Dems may LOSE seats

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ooks-bleak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Bleak days indeed.Tories crushing everyone. Let us hope polls are wrong.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 12:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Worth remembering that the Today programme has long been even worse than the BBC generally. Simple answer really - don't listen to it

Personally I don't - gave up during the Health and Social Care Act period.

My post was based on the 7:30 headlines on Radio 6 Music, and a similar tweet from John Prescott.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 12:51 pm

I'm watching Sayeeda Warsi on BBC2's "The Daily Politics". She's coming across as quite reasonable. What worries me is that the Conservative Party is now stampeding so far towards the authoritarian far right that maybe I'm just viewing her skewed through that lens.

Setting aside that worry, she had some thoughtful things to say.

Edited - typo

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 12:58 pm

Worst Man in Britain Latest:

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 1:34 pm

Tories don't crush they defecate on,I suppose some might be fooled by your fake concern,heaven knows why.

Statement.I don't do debates.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 1:39 pm

A cross-party group of MPs has raised serious concerns about day-to-day operating problems afflicting universal credit, the government’s flagship reform of welfare benefits.

The full digital service, currently six years behind schedule is being rolled out at 30 job centre areas a month, a process that is not due to be completed until 2022. (Politics Live, Guardian)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 2:11 pm

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appea ... ut-174-aac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Secretary of State for Work and Pensions v Carmichael and Sefton BC (HB): [2017] UKUT 174 (AAC)

https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-20 ... sabilities" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bedroom Tax success for people with disabilities

A Court has ruled today that a couple, one of whom has severe disabilities, should have been provided with their fair entitlement to housing benefit prior to the date on which the new Regulations came into force.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 2:13 pm

Re PF's post

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... ent-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... nce-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Written evidence on PIP.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 2:18 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Lib Dems may LOSE seats

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ooks-bleak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Bleak days indeed.Tories crushing everyone. Let us hope polls are wrong.

After all the recent bruising and hardened pessimism, this is what I'm going into June 8th actually expecting. Anything better will be a bonus.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 2:56 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Lib Dems may LOSE seats

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ooks-bleak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Bleak days indeed.Tories crushing everyone. Let us hope polls are wrong.
After all the recent bruising and hardened pessimism, this is what I'm going into June 8th actually expecting. Anything better will be a bonus.

Maybe, but even I'm not that pessimistic. I think there must be some swing away from the Tories. This doesn't 'feel' to me like a country that wants to give them a 100+ majority.

Mind you, Corbyn on Syria, claiming we don't know who used the chemical weapons, just reminded me why I won't be voting Labour.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 3:12 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Lib Dems may LOSE seats

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ooks-bleak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Bleak days indeed.Tories crushing everyone. Let us hope polls are wrong.

Electoral Calculus is a joke site.

Hope that cheers you up

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 3:16 pm

Although the likelihood seems to be Assad was responsible for chemical weapon use based on the circumstantial evidence we have seen I would admit to having little trust in what we have as intelligence and proof that it was certainly the case

France produced some evidence yesterday seemingly based on chemical analysis but it looks a little unconvincing from my first reading (if someone has a full copy of the report and the technical detail then it would be easier to assess - has anyone a link or ave we only seen a résumé?)

The identification of a manufacturing route for material is relatively easy to do as the by-products will be indicative. My assumption though is that there are not many ways of manufacturing this materially safely and that the same route could be being used widely.

The idea of 'common elements' is a bit more problematic if there are potentially multiple sources via the same manufacturing route as determining a specific location or manufacturer is difficult and requires lots of samples, robust analytics and some good multivariate statistical analysis to determine this

As I said we need to see all the technical details to see if this is based on robust science or a bit of 'jumping to a desired conclusion'

Circumstantial evidence points in one direction but I am not someone who has the greatest trust in what intelligence agencies say to justify certain actions so pardon me if I retain a little doubt

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 3:19 pm

PorFavor wrote:I'm watching Sayeeda Warsi on BBC2's "The Daily Politics". She's coming across as quite reasonable. What worries me is that the Conservative Party is now stampeding so far towards the authoritarian far right that maybe I'm just viewing her skewed through that lens.

Setting aside that worry, she had some thoughtful things to say.

Edited - typo

Baroness Warsi had a summary education in her own partys' intransigence. While she didn't leave it she has been a lot more reasonable since. She is in the Lords so now not at the cutting edge of tory voraciousness as she was in cabinet.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 3:24 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Lib Dems may LOSE seats

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ooks-bleak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Bleak days indeed.Tories crushing everyone. Let us hope polls are wrong.
Electoral Calculus is a joke site.

Hope that cheers you up

I don't follow these things as closely as you? Why? In 2015 they badly overestimated Labour, but then so did everyone else.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 3:33 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... s-chambers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Le Pen's replacement as FN leader 'questioned existence of gas chambers'
Jean-Françcois Jalkh, who is interim president of Front National, reportedly made comments in interview 17 years ago

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 3:44 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Lib Dems may LOSE seats

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ooks-bleak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Bleak days indeed.Tories crushing everyone. Let us hope polls are wrong.
After all the recent bruising and hardened pessimism, this is what I'm going into June 8th actually expecting. Anything better will be a bonus.

Maybe, but even I'm not that pessimistic. I think there must be some swing away from the Tories. This doesn't 'feel' to me like a country that wants to give them a 100+ majority.

Mind you, Corbyn on Syria, claiming we don't know who used the chemical weapons, just reminded me why I won't be voting Labour.

Well that's just it. In 2015 it didn't feel like a country that could feasibly give the pig-botherer any majority at all, and in 2016 it didn't feel like a country that could possibly believe in Johnson and Gove's land of expert-proof unicorns, still less go all in on the tinpot fascist's 50s throwback.

But here we are.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 5:11 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39737981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government bid to delay air pollution plan fails

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 5:20 pm

http://blog.spicker.uk/benefit-administ ... ed-states/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefit administration: some lessons from the United States

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 5:24 pm

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ba ... ar-battle/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bank finally admits it failed disabled customer, after three-year battle

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 6:00 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Well that's just it. In 2015 it didn't feel like a country that could feasibly give the pig-botherer any majority at all, and in 2016 it didn't feel like a country that could possibly believe in Johnson and Gove's land of expert-proof unicorns, still less go all in on the tinpot fascist's 50s throwback.

But here we are.

Yes. It's like living through a bad dream that keeps getting worse and worse.

Edited - typo

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 6:02 pm

Paul Nuttall has said that he will be standing in the General Election (TV news).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 6:12 pm

Have seen Hartlepool mentioned.