Friday 28th April 2017

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 5:53 pm

PorFavor wrote:Would you credit it?

Cash only, please

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 5:58 pm

"Do not ask for credit as a refusal often offends." Don't see that sign any more.

Edited - typo

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:05 pm

Tory competence

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can you explain to me why McDonnell and Corbyn are automatically assumed to do worse than this bunch on corrupt upper class twits

There is a word in French - copainage - corruption involving friends and this is a prime example....Fillon must have been giving some advice

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:27 pm

Has anybody ever asked where the money came from to pursue the bedroom tax,hundreds of millions in legal fees alone and still continuing?Even forgetting the obvious misanthropy,so cack handed in implementation,continuing confusion/debate.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:28 pm

Joint product,that one,to be fair.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:30 pm

Back to hand typing,I swore so much,the voice recognition thingy refused to listen.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:30 pm

HindleA wrote:Joint product,that one,to be fair.

How's the nose? Or have you blown that out?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:32 pm

Essentially for GE I tend to avoid going into detail on specific policies in detail as they are all bollocks really and there are so many half truths and a lot of them are dropped - look at Tories 2015 for example

I look at the GE vote rather simply and try to crystallise in my mind who is going to try to deliver the best for the country

Looking at the current situation

2010-2015 Cameron/Osborne Incompetent and vindictive
2016-2017 May/Hammond Even more incompetent and even more vindictive

These are known knowns......we have seen them in action

If we look at Corbyn/McDonnell, we can't say if they are competent or not (I am sure we all have opinions) but we know they will be less vindictive

In that simple model I would say that it is folly to continue with known incompetence and vindictiveness against unknown competence but which will at least try to improve things

I have explained this to my sister in this way and she seemed to get it

The whole basis of the Tories winning elections is that they are assumed to have more economic competence and take difficult decisions....well in my whole life I have seen no evidence of the former and the difficult decisions they take are difficult for the people at the receiving end but not for them!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:36 pm

Another one presses the self-destruct button...

Tory MP Andrew Turner Steps Down ‘After Saying Homosexuality Was Wrong And Bad For Society’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/a ... 5f83c6f61?

A Tory MP has stood down hours after he reportedly told students being gay was “wrong” and “dangerous to society”.

Andrew Turner, who represents the Isle of Wight, made the comments to a group of sixth form students at Christ the King College in Newport on Friday morning.

He was asked whether he was involved in Isle of Wight Pride by A Level politics student Esther Poucher, who said his response had “shocked me to the point of outrage”.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:36 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Tory competence

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can you explain to me why McDonnell and Corbyn are automatically assumed to do worse than this bunch on corrupt upper class twits

There is a word in French - copainage - corruption involving friends and this is a prime example....Fillon must have been giving some advice

I think we can all agree the current government is shit, but that doesn't mean people assume Corbyn and McDonnell will be better.

McDonnell's performance as shadow chancellor has been awful, so it won't help. Also Johnson isn't chancellor, and never will be, Hammond is boring but gives an impression of basic competence (which probably won't last).

Stuff like this doesn't really help the public perception, now to understand the sheer level of stupidity in context look at the dates involved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLFu4X4WgAAZo7C.png

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:38 pm

I had tipped Theresa May to take over from David Cameron. But I really had no inkling of just how dangerous she was going to be. I had her (wrongly) pegged as just a run-of-the-mill Conservative (which is often dangerous enough, I grant you).

Edited -

The dreaded curse of the brackets makes a comeback

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:38 pm

Nose o.k.I've finished power washing at eight hours and trying to get rid of road markings my neighbour thankfully rescued me,my right arm is hanging off and I am using the pointy bit of the elbow held in left.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 6:47 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Tory competence

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can you explain to me why McDonnell and Corbyn are automatically assumed to do worse than this bunch on corrupt upper class twits

There is a word in French - copainage - corruption involving friends and this is a prime example....Fillon must have been giving some advice
I think we can all agree the current government is shit, but that doesn't mean people assume Corbyn and McDonnell will be better.

McDonnell's performance as shadow chancellor has been awful, so it won't help. Also Johnson isn't chancellor, and never will be, Hammond is boring but gives an impression of basic competence (which probably won't last).

Stuff like this doesn't really help the public perception, now to understand the sheer level of stupidity in context look at the dates involved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLFu4X4WgAAZo7C.png

I suggest you read again and can you point out in my post where I mentioned Johnson!

The Tories have left the economy in a complete and utter mess - compounded by Brexit and added to that they are a bunch of vindictive vile bastards who spunk away any money they have on the rich!

In no way have I assumed that Corbyn McDonnell will be any better but even if they too are as bad as the Tories -which I doubt based on what we have seen since 2010 - then at least any money will be spent on things that will be more beneficial for the public good

If we have incompetence I would prefer Labour over Tory any day of the week....but then we don't know they are incompetent do we (it is an assumption) when we know the Tories are!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:24 pm

I'm going to say goodnight,I'm jiggered after marathon power washing,and after all that )an obvious Tory)bird has just left its mark,bastard.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:31 pm

@HindleA

Night night.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:33 pm

PorFavor wrote:@HindleA

Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:34 pm

HindleA wrote:I'm going to say goodnight,I'm jiggered after marathon power washing,and after all that )an obvious Tory)bird has just left its mark,bastard.

Ooops! Goodnight, HindleA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:42 pm

Rumbled(no one has seen us together-well there was that one time in a back of a cinema but we've both agreed "it didn't happen"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:48 pm

Goodnight @HindleA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:49 pm

Worse than the fucking Waltons

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:56 pm

Tory MP drops out of election after telling pupils 'homosexuality is wrong'

Amid furore Isle of Wight MP Andrew Turner agrees to go before being forced out, sources say
(Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-is-wrong

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 7:57 pm

[youtube]cp7_u0kcQRo[/youtube]

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 8:05 pm

@RogerOThornhill

Apologies for the repeat. No excusing that one!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 8:31 pm

As somebody has pointed out - if the Tories can swiftly get rid of Turner after that outburst, why can't Labour dump Danczuk?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 8:51 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:As somebody has pointed out - if the Tories can swiftly get rid of Turner after that outburst, why can't Labour dump Danczuk?

I believe the problems are well documented. The real question I would ask is why hadn't they finished his hearing months ago.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 9:00 pm

General election 2017: Key Corbyn allies not selected by Labour

36 minutes ago (as at 20.57)
(BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39747199

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 9:01 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Tory competence

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can you explain to me why McDonnell and Corbyn are automatically assumed to do worse than this bunch on corrupt upper class twits

There is a word in French - copainage - corruption involving friends and this is a prime example....Fillon must have been giving some advice
I think we can all agree the current government is shit, but that doesn't mean people assume Corbyn and McDonnell will be better.

McDonnell's performance as shadow chancellor has been awful, so it won't help. Also Johnson isn't chancellor, and never will be, Hammond is boring but gives an impression of basic competence (which probably won't last).

Stuff like this doesn't really help the public perception, now to understand the sheer level of stupidity in context look at the dates involved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLFu4X4WgAAZo7C.png

I suggest you read again and can you point out in my post where I mentioned Johnson!

Since you appear somewhat confused allow me to help.

The article you point to in your argument about Tory incompetence is entirely about Boris Johnson.

Hope that answers your question.

Incidentally if we haven't had it the LBC interview is great.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/garden- ... e-124786/?

Top video.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 9:10 pm

Night night.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 9:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:
General election 2017: Key Corbyn allies not selected by Labour

36 minutes ago (as at 20.57)
(BBC News website)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39747199

In some ways this doesn't really matter. The more seats Labour loses the stronger Corbyn's position, very few of his allies are vulnerable. Tarry is truly awful so I hope they keep him out, and credit to a selection process favouring local candidates.

I see multiple sources saying private Labour polling shows 20%, with party strategists putting a floor of 110 seats (note they were wrongly optimistic last time). They say they hope to do between 30-50 seats better. I think they may fall below 100.

At that level Corbyn will have enough MPs to force an equally useless successor on the party. He has very little hope of lasting to conference or changing the rules at conference even if he refuses to quit.

I assume the usual left wing suspects will join up to keep Labour unelectable, although this time they may find Len less helpful. Clive Lewis now detached from the inner circle (far too pragmatic) probably won't make it back as an MP, which is perhaps a shame.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 9:41 pm

Better late than never I suppose, but there were two council byelections last week:

Harrow - Tory gain from Labour, with over half the vote and a swing of about 9% since 2014. This ward has previously returned three Labour councillors in every election since 2002, but the Tories have always been reasonably competitive and the warning signs were there for Labour in last years mayoral elections - it probably narrowly voted for Goldsmith when postal votes (not included in the published totals, which had Khan just ahead) are taken into account. This is partly explainable by internal ethnic minority issues, which were also a factor behind the split in the ruling Labour group before the 2014 polls - this led to a breakaway "Independent Labour Group" slate standing in much of the borough, and in this ward they polled some 13% two years ago as there was a small pro-Tory swing. However, the ILG failed to win any seats and subsequently vanished - and even though Labour's share was little changed on their successful foray last time, the Tories rose by nearly 20 points as they scooped up both the previous Indy support and most of that from UKIP who fell from 12% last time to less than 2% now. They were even narrowly beaten by the LibDems who sat it out previously, but were well down on when they scored about 18% in 2010.

Cheshire W/Chester - Labour hold with close to 60% of the vote in a ward where they have safely returned three councillors in each election since this council's inaugural poll in 2008, and an almost unchanged share since 2015. There was a small pro-Tory swing since then due to their going up some 4% (though there was very little change at all since 2011) but they were still outpolled by close to 3 to 1. Fairly close behind became an Independent who was a UKIP candidate two years ago, and the share of over 16% was almost unchanged from their former party's showing then. LibDems last with less than 3%, down on their most recent previous attempt in 2008.

And those were the last vacancies before next week's elections - there will be plenty of by-elections then of course, plus a further scattering before the big day.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 9:59 pm

I guess in hard times it is uncharitable, but possibly cheering, to laugh at those even less fortunate.

However I did enjoy Mr Crace, who seems to have recovered from his Can't be arsed period with this excellent profile of Nutters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... john-crace

While UKIP under Nutters is proving a major threat to Labour I suspect it is not in the way he originally intended.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:02 pm

AK, above. Thanks for the sheer effort you put in, not just the results but context. Not just this week, but every week.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:13 pm

PorFavor wrote:Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:14 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:25 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ge-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin Rowson on the London garden bridge

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:26 pm

Off topic and deeply deeply nuts.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... immy-cauty

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:26 pm

Since you appear somewhat confused allow me to help.

The article you point to in your argument about Tory incompetence is entirely about Boris Johnson.

Hope that answers your question.

Incidentally if we haven't had it the LBC interview is great.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/garden- ... e-124786/?

Top video.

The article refers to much incompetence in the Tories, also including Osborne and Cameron not just Johnson

I don't think you are confused just a rather irrational frother of everything to do with the Labour Party

It is also pertinent as it belies the constant story that Labour are incompetent when the party that have shown themselves to be truly incompetent are those in power and they demonstrate it time and time again......are the Tories!

The problem is we have a proportion of the electorate that seems to have lost all contact with reality, ably abetted by a media that is telling one story

This election is taking on an air of irrationality that I have never seen before......

You seem to exonerate the electorate from blame and put all the fault on the Labour leadership. The Labour Party has much to answer for it is true, including the leadership but also those senor members who cannot stop themselves helping an already biased press in pushing their story about Labour but your childishly simplistic rantings add nothing to any of the debates

If a Tory majority Government is returned and destroys the economy and the fabric of British society then the electorate have only themselves to blame....the evidence that they are doing this is out there. With Brexit screaming loudly from the pinnacle.

If there is a large Tory majority then I will be blaming those who voted Tory and also those like you who have continually undermined the party - even when they were doing okayish last year prior to the referendum (not great but after a shattering defeat like in 2015 they were still hanging on despite all the predictions).

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:27 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ge-cartoon

Martin Rowson on the London garden bridge

What? How did he get on it, I thought it had been cancelled.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:32 pm

Above,

You can't blame the electorate for anything. They are the customer - often misguided but always right. Their decision is also final, until the next election.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:33 pm

I only post this as Justine Greening pulled out of this - presumably claiming purdah as an excuse. Of course there's nothing to stop her addressing them as an election candidate.

Freddie Whittaker‏Verified account @FCDWhittaker 9m9 minutes ago
More
Breaking: I'm told @jeremycorbyn will address @NAHTnews annual conference on Sunday #NAHTConf

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:35 pm

And while I am here 2015 was not a shattering defeat, it was a close defeat much like 1992. And if by doing ok you mean recording the worst local election results of an opposition party since 1984, you have an odd definition of doing ok.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:44 pm

and further to the last post

We keep getting told by people like TE that Corbyn is terrible and would be a disaster. He may be right, who really knows though? I don't pretend to be able to see the future

What I do know though is that David Cameron was an appalling Prime Minister - the man who managed to lose the referendum! And he is replaced by a PM who is epossibly even worse who actually cannot communicate or engage with any people at all. And was an appalling Home Secretary prior to that. She looks like she will end up with a higher vote than even Blair got in 1997 (how does that happen? I don't detect the country is dying for a May Revolution)

And then that buffoon Boris who won London, a Labour city, twice!

All three of those have demonstrated a level of incompetence in the job that beggars belief but still it doesn't stop them being elected into positions of power

Now we have people like TE coming on ranting about how bad Corbyn is based on their own assumptions and perceptions as thought that is subject matter closed

I am appalled at the idea of a May GOvernment because we know what damage it will do based on what we have seen over the last months and years. I am confident that no matter how bad Corbyn may be as PM he will not be as vindictive and vile against the poor as the Tories and I am also convinced that Starmer will be able to negotiate a much better deal with the EU seeing that he hasn't spent the last year insulting them all and threatening him

You continue away with your rantings against the Labour leadership TE and be happy when the Tories are returned thanks to people like you who have heléped to undermine the party

I will, whatever misgivings I have about Corbyn, will continue to support and try to ensure a Labour victory no matter how remote it seems. I am discussing and talking to family and friends pointing out the damage the Tories have and will continue to do

I expect you just descend into a rant about Corbyn when you discuss politics at the moment - and that type of behaviour will only lead to turning off more people who are going to suffer from what is going to come

I have no respect or understanding of your position - if your desire is a Tory landslide to destroy the left in British politics for the foreseeable future then you are going the right way about it.

The choice is between a Corbyn led Labour Party or a May led Tory one I know which one I want to see win I am not at all sure about you....and the next election in 2022 may be too late for it to matter much anymore

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:47 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Above,

You can't blame the electorate for anything. They are the customer - often misguided but always right. Their decision is also final, until the next election.

Complete and utter bollocks!

They are not necessarily 'right' at all

Their decision is what it is and is final until the next vote but when you hear some of the reasons people give for why they voted in a certain way then I suggest that they frequently demonstrate that the information they have based this on is anything but 'right'!

In that respect they were 'right' about the referendum too - you must be one of those 'respect the will of the people' proponents then

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 10:53 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:And while I am here 2015 was not a shattering defeat, it was a close defeat much like 1992. And if by doing ok you mean recording the worst local election results of an opposition party since 1984, you have an odd definition of doing ok.

It was a bloody shattering defeat - morally devastating with wipeout in Scotland

The local election results weren't to far off that which had been seen in other elections and the rise of UKIP et makes historical comparisons difficult. It was by no means indicative of the position Labour are in now....but you put this all down to Corbyn in you simple world

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 11:14 pm

The trouble is,regardless of view he has become symbolised myth tending to the extreme views,much rather have a belisha beacon called Norris,efficient,presenteable,conscientuous,pragmatic etc.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 11:14 pm

and final post for the night

If the polls are right this is more than about the Labour leader - there is something else going on here possibly linked to Brexit or to the natural instinct to go to the right and conservatism when worried - no matter how irrational that response could be

The only thing those people who are voting Tory in large numbers now have left is their house asset wealth as living standards are being squeezed now

Do we have an unedifying mix of nationalism (coming out against the 'other') and a desire of voters to protect what they have and not share it with anybody?

It is a message that May seems to be trying to give with this 'lend me your votes to provide a strong united Government to negotiate with the EU' message

If that is the case, Labour under any leader stand no chance - we cannot be playing on that field!

Has Brexit just destroyed any rational approach to this election? - as we have seen before in other countries when a certain catalyst is added

The election result is predicated by those demographs who vote and they are the ones who seem to be the ones that also drove Brexit

Just some musings to end the night....

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 11:18 pm

HindleA wrote:The trouble is,regardless of view he has become symbolised myth tending to the extreme views,much rather have a belisha beacon called Norris,efficient,presenteable,conscientuous,pragmatic etc.

Yes he has almost become some sort of mythical beast that comes and eats children at night (although he seems far more comfortable with children than the vast majority of politicians)

I wonder where this myth came from though and why people think that - it can't be from hearing him, seeing him or meeting him as he is one of the least personally threatening politicians I can remember - far less creepy and sinister than Cameron, or cold and calculating as a May or a lying ridiculous clown (as in It by Stephen King) like Johnson

Makes you wonder who has created this idea.......and which are the people in the party who have helped to reinforce this myth.....?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 11:23 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 11:28 pm

Both ways,I'm not overly keen on the adulation thing,regardless.I'm actually sleep posting,so probably more garbled than normal.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 28 Apr, 2017 11:33 pm

HindleA wrote:Both ways,I'm not overly keen on the adulation thing,regardless.I'm actually sleep posting,so probably more garbled than normal.

never garbled....I just assume you are on another celestial plane compared to the rest of us