Saturday 29th April, Sunday 30th April & Monday 1st May 2017

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 8:40 am

Good morfternoon.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 8:44 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Morning PF. I've edited your post to include the Bank Holiday Monday.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:26 am

North Korea missile test: regime has 'disrespected China', says Trump (Guardian)

Donald Trump not very subtlely goading China.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ic-missile

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 10:27 am

It's confirmed that Paul Nuttal will be standing in Boston and Skegness.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 10:40 am

PorFavor wrote:It's confirmed that Paul Nuttall will be losing in Boston and Skegness

So this is now official

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 11:42 am

EU leaders set to take tough stance in special Brexit summit

Leaders of EU27 are expected to demand that UK resolves key divorce issues before any talks on future trade deal can begin

EU leaders are expected to unite on a tough opening negotiating stance on Brexit at a special summit in Brussels on Saturday, when they will agree on whether to make Britain settle potential payments to the bloc before considering a new trade deal.

The heads of the remaining 27 countries will demand that Britain resolves the key divorce issues of citizens’ rights, the divorce bill and the border on the island of Ireland before any talks on a future trade deal between the UK and the EU can begin. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-summit

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 12:11 pm

PorFavor wrote:
EU leaders set to take tough stance in special Brexit summit

Leaders of EU27 are expected to demand that UK resolves key divorce issues before any talks on future trade deal can begin

EU leaders are expected to unite on a tough opening negotiating stance on Brexit at a special summit in Brussels on Saturday, when they will agree on whether to make Britain settle potential payments to the bloc before considering a new trade deal.

The heads of the remaining 27 countries will demand that Britain resolves the key divorce issues of citizens’ rights, the divorce bill and the border on the island of Ireland before any talks on a future trade deal between the UK and the EU can begin. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-summit

Don't worry PF May is going to be there with a strong and stable Government....don't the EU27 know this?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 1:31 pm

Since the Irish border strikes me as just about the trickiest problem of the lot, and will most likely shape the rest of the settlement, that is an interesting precondition.

I guess you could make Northern Ireland a member of the EEA. That moves the problem to the British border.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 1:39 pm

When the Telegraph is running a Corbyn piece you know you are doing something wrong with your strategy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... d-britain/

Nice to see him placing the blame for the 2008 crash firmly on Labour.

I expect Conservative central office are reaching for their Corbyn clippings file on his 34 year record of consistent views as we speak.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 1:40 pm

It's amazing how Joanna Lumley has pissed away all the good will she generated over the Gurkhas, with the garden bridge fiasco.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 1:43 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:When the Telegraph is running a Corbyn piece you know you are doing something wrong with your strategy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... d-britain/

Nice to see him placing the blame for the 2008 crash firmly on Labour.

I expect Conservative central office are reaching for their Corbyn clippings file on his 34 year record of consistent views as we speak.

Not like anybody else has ever done that before, eh? You must have missed all those Blairites rushing to agree that "Labour spent too much" before the crash, then

I hope you are going to spend the next six weeks more productively than just quoting the Tory press at us......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 2:10 pm

refitman wrote:It's amazing how Joanna Lumley has pissed away all the good will she generated over the Gurkhas, with the garden bridge fiasco.

Since the intention was for the bridge to be closed at night, she's probably thinking of all those private parties, held on it in the down-time, that she could have been attending of an evening should the scheme have gone ahead.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 2:53 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:When the Telegraph is running a Corbyn piece you know you are doing something wrong with your strategy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... d-britain/

Nice to see him placing the blame for the 2008 crash firmly on Labour.

I expect Conservative central office are reaching for their Corbyn clippings file on his 34 year record of consistent views as we speak.
Not like anybody else has ever done that before, eh? You must have missed all those Blairites rushing to agree that "Labour spent too much" before the crash, then

I hope you are going to spend the next six weeks more productively than just quoting the Tory press at us......

On recent indications I very much doubt we will see anything different from TE

It is a tad monotonous and boring

Rant rant rant Corbyn rant rant IRA rant rant useless rant rant

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:08 pm

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:08 pm

Or even ahoy!
(am on boat)

Post by **refitman** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:24 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Or even ahoy!
(am on boat)

I would post the song by The Lonely Island, but it's a bit sweary.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:35 pm

Whatever bills Brussels produce for outstanding EU pensions and programmes will be trivial when set against the cost of a sustained economic slump and a subsequent financial crisis. Ms May, on her own narrow terms, was wise to cut and run before the bad news really starts to roll in. That is another reason why she will need a larger majority. Yet, as Mrs Thatcher discovered when she was toppled in 1990, even a Commons majority of 100 or so is no defence against comprehensive economic failure. It is not far away.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/edi ... 08421.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

is that a glass I see in the far distance (about 5 years)?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:37 pm

Making my blood run cold:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 08831.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tory election banners in the north of England don't have 'Conservative Party' branding on them

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:40 pm

On the "best Medieval king out there"

The Jorvik Times‏
@JorvikTimes

Maiden Theresa whines Heptarchy lining up against effort to force Wessex from alliance against Danes, @donaeldunready curiously silent.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 3:45 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:When the Telegraph is running a Corbyn piece you know you are doing something wrong with your strategy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... d-britain/

Nice to see him placing the blame for the 2008 crash firmly on Labour.

I expect Conservative central office are reaching for their Corbyn clippings file on his 34 year record of consistent views as we speak.

Looks like a good speech to me & He doesn't blame the crash on labour he says our ability to cope with it was damaged by having bought into Tory ideas.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:07 pm

Theresa May, in Scotland today, doesn't (as usual) mention Northern Ireland. Scotland and England only.

Edited to add - haven't heard her mention Wales today - but she often has on previous occasions.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:When the Telegraph is running a Corbyn piece you know you are doing something wrong with your strategy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... d-britain/

Nice to see him placing the blame for the 2008 crash firmly on Labour.

I expect Conservative central office are reaching for their Corbyn clippings file on his 34 year record of consistent views as we speak.
Not like anybody else has ever done that before, eh? You must have missed all those Blairites rushing to agree that "Labour spent too much" before the crash, then

I hope you are going to spend the next six weeks more productively than just quoting the Tory press at us......

Yes, because what is interesting about that is the fact that the Tory press led with it, and how they reported it. Which tells you something if you stop and think for a minute.

I think there is much to recommend a wider perspective than the bits of the Internet you agree with. The Tory press is a fantastic window into what the enemy is thinking.

In other news It at the home office.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/28 ... me_office/

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:17 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

I think there is much to recommend a wider perspective than the bits of the Internet you agree with. The Tory press is a fantastic window into what the enemy is thinking.

In other news It at the home office.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/28 ... me_office/

I agree with that.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:19 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:When the Telegraph is running a Corbyn piece you know you are doing something wrong with your strategy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... d-britain/

Nice to see him placing the blame for the 2008 crash firmly on Labour.

I expect Conservative central office are reaching for their Corbyn clippings file on his 34 year record of consistent views as we speak.
Looks like a good speech to me & He doesn't blame the crash on labour he says our ability to cope with it was damaged by having bought into Tory ideas.

It feeds a Tory narrative that the three Labour governments Corbyn seems to hate weren't different or better than the endless Tory governments 79-97, 2010-20xx.

But in anycase the issue I have isn't the content of the speech, but that it makes Corbyn's record as a backbencher relevant in judging fitness to be PM. I think that would be the last place I would go as a Labour Strategist. I would airbrush the lot as long past irrelevance and concentrate on Corbyn's immunity to corporate lobbying. Which is a key strength that he does enjoy.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:27 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nell-hints" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shadow chancellor says he cannot pre-empt Labour manifesto but signals opposition to rises and says party should rule out mansion tax

Wife did some canvassing last election & said that Mansion tax was one of the reasons given for voting Conservative. The houses were probably worth less than £300k, so owners wouldn't have been affected, but some people seemed to take it as an attack on wealth in principle. (though may have been just one or two, particularly irrational voters)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:29 pm

We know what the Tories and their friends in the press are going to say...they will take everything that is said by the Labour Party and distort it!

There may be some value in looking at it as a way to counteract the messages being given but I think the poster who put the original link in had no intention of doing that in my view based on their recent contributions

TE actually went further than the Telegraph and accused Corbyn of 'blaming Labour for the 2008 crash' whereas the truth of what he said was more akin to what tiny posted above where he criticised some of the policies of Brown and Blair where they took on the neoliberal economic policies from the Tories...and some of these have been furthered continued since 2010

That is a perfectly fair challenge and is one many Labour supporters have made - it is not 'blaming' them for the crash but it is right to point out some of the things that went wrong - in fact it is, in my view, a more credible attack of Brown's economic approach than the one that you most often see - including from Labour politicians - saying that that the crash was due to Labour spending too much.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:39 pm

Is there any end to TE and his continual parroting of his assumptions of what Tories think and are going to say about Corbyn - are you sure you don't work for Crosby as you seem to be even more gleeful in trying to invent problems for Corbyn than he is

The latest accusation of 'hating' Labour Governments - well I think if you look at the voting record you will find he supported the Labour Governments in the vast majority of cases - and in the cases where he rebelled they were often on policies that we wished the Labour Government hadn't been part of!

I don't think he supported the Tory Governments with the same gusto did he

So that is another Tory made up assertion, or perhaps a made up TE assertion, that doesn't bear much scrutiny.....I supposed he always hated Kinnock as well as he spent his early years on what was seen as the left of the party and had a similar reputation

We know that these fake news stories will be promoted by the Tories - they are not always easy to push back on because Corbyn has been vocal in opposition to policies he doesn't like but that is better in my view than having a bland politician who believes in nothing. It is sad though to see so-called Labour supporters inventing these type of comments as well - we have enough from the Tories

Why not start looking at the Tories in more detail TE as the press isn't doing it for us......? Or do you prefer just criticising the Labour leadership and think May is the future PM we need and want?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:47 pm

Can't say I'd given it much thought, but yes - why indeed? Strange man.

Nuttall made the announcement [about where he would stand] not in Boston and Skegness but in Hartlepool, leaving some confused as to why he had travelled to a town some 160 miles away from his target seat for the big reveal. (Guardian)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 4:49 pm

PorFavor wrote:Can't say I'd given it much thought, but yes - why indeed? Strange man.

Nuttall made the announcement [about where he would stand] not in Boston and Skegness but in Hartlepool, leaving some confused as to why he had travelled to a town some 160 miles away from his target seat for the big reveal. (Guardian)

Is that where his new rental property is?

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 6:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:Can't say I'd given it much thought, but yes - why indeed? Strange man.

Nuttall made the announcement [about where he would stand] not in Boston and Skegness but in Hartlepool, leaving some confused as to why he had travelled to a town some 160 miles away from his target seat for the big reveal. (Guardian)

My understanding is that he'd already been scheduled to appear at the "Cosmopolitan Hotel" in Hartlepool, but had to decamp to another drinking establishment when fighting broke amongst the waiting public.
I suppose he'll add "Cosmopolitan survivor" to his c.v. now.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 6:35 pm

Afternoon all.

just got back from football, and let's just say it was...interesting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 6:50 pm

[Corbyn] said there were signs the prime minister and her closest advisers were slipping into a presidential bunker mentality. “...it is the job of leadership to hold open the space for dissent, new thinking and fit-for-purpose policy....insecure leaders want to feel stronger by asking you to give them more power, I recognise strong leadership as equipping you with more power.” He said he would not allow free thinking to be “shut down by a hostile media or an elite that scoffs at anyone who dares to step out of line”.

He used the speech to make a plea for 2.4 million young people missing from the UK’s electoral register to sign up. He said barely 40% of 18 to 24-year olds turn out to vote. “The Conservatives are more than happy with this state of affairs. Apathy and resignation will secure them seats on election day,” he said.

- Jeremy Corbyn gets personal in one-off campaign speech

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ign-speech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The entire article was good, please read it if you've the time.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 6:51 pm

Good-evening, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 6:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all.

just got back from football, and let's just say it was...interesting.

Are you okay?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 7:00 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all.

just got back from football, and let's just say it was...interesting.
Are you okay?

Oh yes I'm fine.

Pitch invasion with about 5 minutes to go to protest about our owner whereupon there was a stand off between stewards and fans for about an hour before the match was abandoned.

Except that it wasn't and was clearly a ruse to get the fans out of the way before they finished the match.

Finishing and not finishing could mean the difference between no action by the FL and a large fine...

Incidentally, the FL have been an utter disgrace in that they've done nothing about the club's owner who is quite clearly not a fit and proper person to be allowed to own a tuck shop let alone a football club!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 7:11 pm

It's a subject I'm unfamiliar with, football. I understand the problem from what you've described well enough though.
Is it necessary for someone to own the football club? How does that work? Any yahoo can buy one?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 7:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ver-decade" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nurses will see their pay ‘cut by 12% over a decade’

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 7:36 pm

The row brewing over the state pension triple lock plays into a wider debate about incomes and wealth in old age and how,
as a society, we adapt to the escalating costs of improved life expectancy, increasing care costs and, crucially, property prices.

It is becoming clear that the answer for many people is to...do everything to avoid paying higher taxes and hoard whatever
assets they have accumulated. Protecting the family’s finances becomes a priority as the state vanishes from the scene.
This trend lies behind the Tory promise to raise the inheritance tax threshold for couples to £1m by 2020.

House prices play an important role. Property is something to hang on to and maximise. Pay as little stamp duty or capital
gains tax as you can. Make sure the proceeds are recycled to provide a leg-up for your own offspring. Even those who hate
the tyranny of rising house prices feel unable to play by an older set of socialistic rules when it feels like everyone else is
looking after number one.

- Philip Inman

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ocial-care" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tories like tyranny. Tories don't like socialist ideas. Tories want everyone feeling like they need to look after themselves and
no one else outside a few friends and family. Others without wealthy family or friends will suffer, of course. Tories don't care.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 7:37 pm

http://disabilityunited.co.uk/2017/04/w ... e-thought/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Warehousing: Worse Than We Thought

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 7:43 pm

My commiserations about Leyton Orient, Roger.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 8:16 pm

Throughout his 34 years as an MP, [Jeremy Corbyn] had been attacked for what he believed in, he said, but it had not changed his core values.
Many of the problems he identified at the start his career were still present.

“In 1983, I stood up in parliament for the first time and used my maiden speech to condemn deeply damaging cuts in public services
and the NHS. It’s a tragedy that I could make a very similar speech today and it would once again hold true.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ign-speech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 8:29 pm

Theresa May...“hiding from the public” during the general election campaign after she held her latest rally in a tiny community hall in Aberdeenshire with such poor phone reception that live coverage of the event was impossible. About 200 Conservative campaigners crammed into Crathes hall, Banchory, a tin-roofed single-storey building at the heart of a swath of woodland in rural north-east Scotland, from where journalists were unable to tweet or broadcast.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -is-hiding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

T May is unwilling to meet people and actively evades the electorate, hiding from most people even as she demands our votes.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 8:41 pm

"After she delivered a speech in a community centre in Leeds to a select group of supporters rather than the users of the building on Friday, Jeremy Corbyn accused her of hiding from the public.

“She won’t take part in TV debates and she won’t talk to voters,” Corbyn said. “Refusing to debate Labour in this election isn’t a sign of strength, it’s a sign of weakness.
What is she afraid of?”

When journalists were eventually able to report on May’s speech it emerged she had told her supporters that she was the only leader capable of providing
“strong and stable leadership” for Britain as the country headed towards Brexit."

T May hides in the woods, frightened of meeting most people she wants to lead

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 8:54 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all.

just got back from football, and let's just say it was...interesting.

You've got my sympathy, Roger. We may be at opposite ends of the footballing spectrum, but all Toon fans know what its like to have a shitbag as an owner.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:08 pm

Nurses will see their pay ‘cut by 12% over a decade’

Impact of wage restraints could lead to staffing shortfall of 42,000, says Health Foundation report

The Health Foundation also found that England could face a shortfall of 42,000 nurses by 2020, and almost half of all nurses believe that current staffing levels are already dangerously stretched.

The Conservatives dismissed the findings. “We disagree with these figures. They speculate on future pay awards, which are based on independent recommendations. Investment in our NHS, in additional staff and indeed in their overall pay is founded on the strong economy only Theresa May and the Conservatives can provide,” a party spokesman said. (Guardian - my emphasis)

Oh, I give in. I'm convinced. Cancel the election. Let's just have a proclaimation.

Edited to add the link (and, if I'm scrupulously honest, to correct a typo that I've just noticed).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ver-decade

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:25 pm

Bevan was far too fair.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:26 pm

What happened to "we don't recognise . . ."?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:28 pm

PorFavor wrote:What happened to "we don't recognise . . ."?

That was very much a Cameronism, wasn't it? I think that May's people prefer other obfuscations.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:What happened to "we don't recognise . . ."?
That was very much a Cameronism, wasn't it? I think that May's people prefer other obfuscations.

I thought it was still a "thing" - up until just now.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Apr, 2017 9:33 pm

Sequence of threads about May's strong and stable etc worth reading.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;