Monday 8th May 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 08 May, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 08 May, 2017 7:16 am

Le hello!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 08 May, 2017 7:50 am

Bonjours mes amis.

Into school bright and early in a few minutes to see a maths booster class and then checking on SATs papers procedures. They get locked away in the basement as soon as they arrive and only come out minutes before they are needed but good to check.

Back later.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 7:59 am

Morning.

Ladies and gentlemen, Leave.EU:

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NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 8:01 am

Ladies and gentlemen, the Daily Mail:

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 08 May, 2017 9:23 am

Arguably, the Times leading with a big MLP spread the night of the first round ballot was worse.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 9:28 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Arguably, the Times leading with a big MLP spread the night of the first round ballot was worse.

Probably was, but at least they managed this today:

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By contrast, the Mail has done a "Thomas Mair verdict on page 30" again.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 08 May, 2017 10:33 am

Morning all.

Newsthump on fine form.

"35% for Le Pen means France is divided, insists man who told the 48% to suck it up and get over it"

http://newsthump.com/2017/05/08/35-for- ... t-over-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 08 May, 2017 10:52 am

I see that the Graun led with the "France divided" line this morning. Ho hum.

Will they do the same if our PM wins a sizeable majority next month, but with a considerably smaller lead in the popular vote?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 08 May, 2017 10:53 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Newsthump on fine form.

"35% for Le Pen means France is divided, insists man who told the 48% to suck it up and get over it"

http://newsthump.com/2017/05/08/35-for- ... t-over-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The barrage of vileness from commentators upset France didn't vote for the fascist below the line in other places was astounding
I would have thought pride alone would've tempered their responses
Fascist followers are bad news
Violent, abusive confrontational tactics won't get anything but sorrow

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 08 May, 2017 10:53 am

Good-morning, everyone

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:01 am

What on earth?

Michael Deacon‏Verified account
@MichaelPDeacon

Follow
More
The Conservative Party. Or, as they're now known, Theresa May's Team

You think he's joking - take a look at the picture.

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NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:32 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:What on earth?

Michael Deacon‏Verified account
@MichaelPDeacon

Follow
More
The Conservative Party. Or, as they're now known, Theresa May's Team
You think he's joking - take a look at the picture.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And then this:

Theresa May just said "Conservative Party" - then hastily corrected it to "me and my team"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:43 am

Hospital parking fees. Again, a decent policy. Speaking from previous personal experience, spending nights and going there and back multiple times a day it's sickening. Pun absolutely intended

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 12:10 pm

In case you need a laugh...or you really want to buy one.

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Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 12:29 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Hospital parking fees. Again, a decent policy. Speaking from previous personal experience, spending nights and going there and back multiple times a day it's sickening. Pun absolutely intended

I do like the idea of imposing a national policy so all hospital users are treated the same - it emphasises the "national" of the NHS. Obviously there would be difficulties in application, because available parking is so scarce in some areas and, of course, some trusts have become reliant on this money. Linking it to a VAT rise on private insurance is a mistake, though, I think. It allows the media to concentrate on that instead of the positive policy and as Porfavor (I think?) pointed out, taxing "aspiration" is far less popular than you would expect. Better to just put the VAT up once you're in government, like Osborne did. Of course Labour will be grilled on how they can afford it, but surely Labour plans for NHS funding will require huge numbers anyway, in which free parking would surely be a sidebar? I'm a little worried at this point that the Libdems are talking big numbers like a penny on income tax, but Labour so far have suggested nothing for the NHS. Really need these manifestos! I haven't had any campaign material from Labour either, having had something from the Tories and Libdems. I hope they get going soon, they seem a little behind in terms of organisation at the moment.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 12:38 pm

I don't know who Catherine West is, but she's just been getting pretty crushed on Daily Politics at the moment over spending and taxing plans. I felt a bit sorry for her, as she didn't seem to have any more knowledge about Labour's plans than the few single policies already announced by John McDonnell so it was difficult for her to defend them with no details to flesh them out. At least she referred to the manifesto for figures she didn't have, so lessons have been learned from Abbott's error.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 08 May, 2017 12:42 pm

So what was the point of banging on and on about figures before the manifesto comes out?

Contrast with how the Tories "promised" an extra 10k mental health nurses the other day and the media just waved it through. No obsessing over "paying for it" at all AFAICS.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 1:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:So what was the point of banging on and on about figures before the manifesto comes out?

Contrast with how the Tories "promised" an extra 10k mental health nurses the other day and the media just waved it through. No obsessing over "paying for it" at all AFAICS.

The discussion was referring to John McDonnell's pledge not to put up taxes generally, thus restricting Labour to raising all their extra revenue from the announced reversal of corporation tax cuts and a rise for those on over £80,000. These are things Labour put out there, so I'm not sure it's unreasonable to expect them to discuss them and how much they might raise.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 08 May, 2017 1:19 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Hospital parking fees. Again, a decent policy. Speaking from previous personal experience, spending nights and going there and back multiple times a day it's sickening. Pun absolutely intended

A decent policy - yes, but it's not as simple as it appears. The SG made the same move years ago. First problem was PFI-built hospitals where parking charges were built into the contract. Second problem was the miserable s*ds who were not hospital users but who parked their cars there. Almost all the buses in my area go through the local hospital grounds, with the result that it became an unofficial park-and-ride.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8308517.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not insurmountable problems, but different for each hospital.

A police HQ that I used to visit (voluntarily and on business, I hasten to add) had a good solution. An automatic barrier let anybody into their car park but you had to go to reception for a token to get out of it. (Tokens free only if you had a legitimate reason for being there).

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 1:20 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39845685" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The BBC has unveiled details of its election programmes - with Theresa May and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn set to take part in Question Time specials.
David Dimbleby will host the programmes in which Mr Corbyn and Mrs May, the Conservative leader, will face audience questions consecutively on 2 June.
SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon and Lib Dem Tim Farron will appear on 4 June.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 08 May, 2017 1:25 pm

Willow904 wrote:SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon and Lib Dem Tim Farron will appear on 4 June.

Well, they'll get turned away. That's my birthday and they're not invited.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 08 May, 2017 1:33 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/ ... g-26-miles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul's marathon crossword: devising clues while running 26 miles

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 1:43 pm

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That "2015 vote share" rule is ~~covering their bare arse~~ doing an awful lot of heavy lifting for them, isn't it?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 08 May, 2017 2:12 pm

http://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-ne ... rather-cps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Legal Aid Agency criticised for trying to prosecute major law firm fraud through local authority rather than CPS

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 08 May, 2017 2:15 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/c ... mg00000005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marine Le Pen Backer Places Bet Then Tries To Claim Son Hacked His Account

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 2:42 pm

Those keeping an eye on their blood pressure might want to avoid the latest ICM poll over at the G

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 3:47 pm

Willow904 wrote:Those keeping an eye on their blood pressure might want to avoid the latest ICM poll over at the G

And they should stay away from this as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-for-ukip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One BTL comment perhaps sums things up:

Twazzer3
1h ago

"I am a lifelong Labour man, I voted remain and I don't like Thatcherism, so I'm voting UKIP". Are people really this thick?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 08 May, 2017 3:50 pm

Graun still talking up UKIP, are they?

God bless.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 08 May, 2017 4:03 pm

As I am told off f I omit them.

Latest ICM, just consistent with the others really.

Conservatives: 49% (up 2)

Labour: 27% (down 1)

Lib Dems: 9% (up 1)

Ukip: 6% (down 2)

Greens: 3% (down 1)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 08 May, 2017 4:12 pm

An improved second place here though

Welsh Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (+1)
LAB: 35% (+5)
PC: 11% (-2)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
UKIP: 4% (-2)

(via @YouGov / 05 - 07 May)

Welsh Labour doing its best to declare independence of course.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 4:20 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Those keeping an eye on their blood pressure might want to avoid the latest ICM poll over at the G
And they should stay away from this as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-for-ukip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One BTL comment perhaps sums things up:

Twazzer3
1h ago

"I am a lifelong Labour man, I voted remain and I don't like Thatcherism, so I'm voting UKIP". Are people really this thick?

Hartlepool council, Mennear said, bucked a national trend by keeping museums open. But there are some who resent that while museums have stayed open, other key services have shut. There is bitter anger about the closure of A&E, critical care and part of maternity services at Hartlepool’s hospital; it is a 30-minute drive, or a 90-minute bus journey, to Stockton for people with serious injuries.

So the local A&E closes in 2011 under the Coalition government of the Tories and Libdems, and this is interpreted as Labour abandoning Hartlepool and a reason to vote Ukip? I'm just trying to make sense of why, if they were unhappy with a Labour government, they kept returning a Labour MP during the Labour years and only now, after 7 years under a completely different government, they feel unhappy enough with Labour to vote elsewhere. If, indeed it comes to pass Hartlepool does reject Labour, which of course it might not and all this may prove bollocks.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Mon 08 May, 2017 4:58 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Those keeping an eye on their blood pressure might want to avoid the latest ICM poll over at the G
And they should stay away from this as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-for-ukip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One BTL comment perhaps sums things up:

Twazzer3
1h ago

"I am a lifelong Labour man, I voted remain and I don't like Thatcherism, so I'm voting UKIP". Are people really this thick?

Sadly, a lot of people are that thick, and not just because I taught them. I know someone who didn't know which way to vote in the Brexit referendum, so she voted the opposite way to her husband, to cancel his vote in case he was wrong. A cousin voted Brexit because he thought it would be a laugh, and a friend who works in Nissan, voted Brexit because he can't stand the Mackems and wants to see them made redundant.
Perhaps we deserve our rulers.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 08 May, 2017 5:12 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Those keeping an eye on their blood pressure might want to avoid the latest ICM poll over at the G
And they should stay away from this as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-for-ukip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One BTL comment perhaps sums things up:

Twazzer3
1h ago

"I am a lifelong Labour man, I voted remain and I don't like Thatcherism, so I'm voting UKIP". Are people really this thick?

I'm already on record here as saying Hartlepool will go to UKIP, they want their brexit and they want it now.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 08 May, 2017 5:22 pm

One more slagging off of Hartlepool or people will result in no holds barred response.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 08 May, 2017 5:30 pm

Good riddance.

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howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 08 May, 2017 5:35 pm

HindleA wrote:One more slagging off of Hartlepool or people will result in no holds barred response.

I shall not mention monkeys!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 08 May, 2017 6:11 pm

"Vote May to get Brexit"

The message is simple and effective enough except......

We already had May and we already voted for Brexit.

I know it's not what she'll get but what she deserves is the exact same super slim majority she started out with. That the British public will doubtless reward her with a mega margin is just so untterably depressing.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 08 May, 2017 7:31 pm

Can somebody here tell me why the Labour Leadership - THE LABOUR LEADERSHIP ( sorry got a bit Kinnock 85 there) is banging on about Karl Marx in 2017. They are about 100 years too late to be relevant.

Now obviously the DM will claim they are Communists (frankly that Vince Cable bloke is a bit shifty as well) which probably isn't true. But if it doesn't prove they are communists it proves somebody is an idiot.

Consider this 30 days from an election every minute of their days should be planned for the single purpose of maximising the Labour vote. In addition they should have their media grid thing telling them the key messages.

So which cockwomble decided today they were going to talk about Marxism. How does that help?

Similarly who allowed John McD (Bond Villain extrordinaire) to stand in front of a communist banner emblazoned with the word Stalin and give a speech to literally 100 people 3 days before the local elections.

And who thought sending Corbyn to a tiny non Labour celebration of Burnhams victory made any sense. The footage of 200 people chanting Corbyn and waving CPGB flags cheerfully thankfully didn't make the news.

Does anybody on that campaign have a clue what they are doing?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 7:44 pm

This cartoon has been doing the rounds:

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Then there's this:

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This is slightly less funny, however. The Foreign Secretary, ladies, gents and mugwumps:

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TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 08 May, 2017 9:01 pm

Worrying thought, Could John (Dr Evil) McD courting the Stalinist vote on 1st May be because internal polling suggests only the Stalinists remain onboard.

Of course, they are also just the demographic likely to be seduced by strong, stable and secretly unhinged rulers. The new swing voters perhaps?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 08 May, 2017 9:29 pm

So what is the inside story on Katy Clark? I know we have the battle for safe seats arguments flying around but it feels like there is something else here.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 08 May, 2017 10:16 pm

NonOxCol wrote:In case you need a laugh...or you really want to buy one.

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Presumably it comes Teflon coated?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:15 pm

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Er....... Nope.

Edited to add: lots of properly good responses to this, particularly so given a 140-character limit!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:40 pm

"Don't worry, he'll quit...."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... mv48B1pvlw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The over optimism of the soft left, despite reality hitting them in the face over and over again, is a thing to behold.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:55 pm

What exactly do you expect him to say?

William Hague said he would not resign as Tory leader if he lost more than once during the 2001 GE campaign.

He quit the next day.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 09 May, 2017 12:10 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:What exactly do you expect him to say?

William Hague said he would not resign as Tory leader if he lost more than once during the 2001 GE campaign.

He quit the next day.

We'll see.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 09 May, 2017 12:27 am

Oh, before I depart for the night an interesting polling snippet from the head of ICM.

Pretty much admitting that their latest poll is Tory-heavy, and apparently hinting that there could be some tweaking of their methodology.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 09 May, 2017 5:51 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Oh, before I depart for the night an interesting polling snippet from the head of ICM.

Pretty much admitting that their latest poll is Tory-heavy, and apparently hinting that there could be some tweaking of their methodology.

We'll see.