Friday 12th May 2017

Post by **refitman** » Fri 12 May, 2017 7:12 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 7:16 am

Now this is fun. You can see their calculations for every seat, with breakdowns of the local election voting

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/newseatlookup.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 7:26 am

This is very good on the problem with Labour's fiscal plans in the draft

https://longandvariable.wordpress.com/2 ... cal-rules/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They say nothing about the world we're in now.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 May, 2017 7:48 am

SpinningHugo wrote:This is very good on the problem with Labour's fiscal plans in the draft

https://longandvariable.wordpress.com/2 ... cal-rules/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They say nothing about the world we're in now.

Maybe it is good, but I didn't understand a word of it

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 12 May, 2017 7:52 am

Morning

Very nice of Hugo to continual post any negative reaction he can find about the Labour party manifesto

As he is such an expert he will be able to explain in simple terms what this means to a non Economist

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:06 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning

Very nice of Hugo to continual post any negative reaction he can find about the Labour party manifesto

As he is such an expert he will be able to explain in simple terms what this means to a non Economist

That's what I was hoping for seeing clearly

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:08 am

I can see there is an opportunity, and potential issues, with the government being able to borrow at negative interest rates. Not very much discussion of this (that I can follow) anywhere though.

Intriguingly this doesn't seem to be a Brexit election any more. We're talking economy, industry, education all of a sudden....

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:21 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I can see there is an opportunity, and potential issues, with the government being able to borrow at negative interest rates. Not very much discussion of this (that I can follow) anywhere though.

Intriguingly this doesn't seem to be a Brexit election any more. We're talking economy, industry, education all of a sudden....

We may be talking about those other things, but there's no sign yet that voters are listening. The high polling for the Tories is surely explained by people who want Brexit voting Tory to make sure it happens and Tory voters who don't want Brexit still voting Tory because they're Tories. Having failed to make the necessary arguments against leaving the single market over the last year to convince people of the dangers of allowing the Tories to take us out, and thus provide a genuine alternative Brexit, Labour's only chance in this election was to talk about anything but Brexit, which they're doing, but I very much doubt it will work.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:28 am

The Lib Dems have tried to make that argument

Not seeing the benefit really as far as I can see

Surely if Remain was the overriding subject then they should be 10 points higher at least?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:39 am

Willow904 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I can see there is an opportunity, and potential issues, with the government being able to borrow at negative interest rates. Not very much discussion of this (that I can follow) anywhere though.

Intriguingly this doesn't seem to be a Brexit election any more. We're talking economy, industry, education all of a sudden....
We may be talking about those other things, but there's no sign yet that voters are listening. The high polling for the Tories is surely explained by people who want Brexit voting Tory to make sure it happens and Tory voters who don't want Brexit still voting Tory because they're Tories. Having failed to make the necessary arguments against leaving the single market over the last year to convince people of the dangers of allowing the Tories to take us out, and thus provide a genuine alternative Brexit, Labour's only chance in this election was to talk about anything but Brexit, which they're doing, but I very much doubt it will work.

Perhaps. In any case I am enjoying discussing other pressing topics and having a break from Brexit

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:43 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning

Very nice of Hugo to continual post any negative reaction he can find about the Labour party manifesto

As he is such an expert he will be able to explain in simple terms what this means to a non Economist

Sure.

They have a rule about what you do when rates are not at the zero level bound. But say nothing about when they are.

Rates are now at the zero level bound, and because of Brexit expected to stay there,

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:44 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:The Lib Dems have tried to make that argument

Not seeing the benefit really as far as I can see

Surely if Remain was the overriding subject then they should be 10 points higher at least?

Farron.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:47 am

And if you want comments on the Tory policies we know of

Energy price caps: dumb.

Fox hunting: dumb.

Grammar schools: dumb.

But we all think that. That kind of back slapping may make people feel warm and virtuous, but is self indulgent. There are other messageboards full of that self congratulatory stuff. Just juvenile.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:02 am

More on BBC "balance" this time reaction from the left wing (ha ha) media on Nick Robinson interview with Barry Gardiner this morning.

So the Guardian claims "Reaction to Gardiner’s interview from the commentariat has been largely negative"

Who are the "commentariat they choose to quote? (Sorry can't link)

Why Nick Robinson himself (who some claimed received a mauling) Ultra right winger Iain Martin and the legend that is Dan Hodges.

I didn't hear the interview but I can believe Barry Gardiner was pretty assertive after all he did a pretty good job (in my opinion) on Adam Boulton the other day.

Frankly, I have said before, I wish opposition (of all parties) interviewees were more "spiky" with the jumped up, self important commentariat!

Edited for clarity

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:05 am

Mrs May really has no grasp on reality. This from the BBC

Conservative PM Theresa May will claim Labour has "deserted" working-class voters as she campaigns in the north-east of England on Friday.
She will pledge to campaign "in all corners" of the UK to reach those who have been "abandoned by Labour".
She will say that people have voted Labour for generations but many are "appalled" by Jeremy Corbyn's beliefs.
[...]
Mrs May will say his programme represents a return to "the disastrous socialist policies of the 1970s".
"Proud and patriotic working-class people in towns and cities across Britain have not deserted the Labour Party - Jeremy Corbyn has deserted them," she is expected to say.
"We respect that parents and grandparents taught their children and grandchildren that Labour was a party that shared their values and stood up for their community.
"But across the country today, traditional Labour supporters are increasingly looking at what Jeremy Corbyn believes in and are appalled."

Does she have the faintest idea what was happening in the North East in the 1970s? Or even who was in power at the time?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:13 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... oar-to-122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GP recruitment crisis intensifies as vacancies soar to 12.2%

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:16 am

This also from the Guardian on the logic of the British electorate

Poll position

A Comres poll for the Daily Mirror shows several of the policies in Labour’s leaked manifesto hit the right (left?) spot for voters. A majority supported nationalising energy companies (49% v 24% opposed); railways (52% v 22%); and Royal Mail (50% v 25%). A ban on zero-hours contracts won 71% for and 16% against. Some 65% (v 24%) backed raising income tax on those earning over £80,000. And 78% favour retaining the ban on foxhunting.
But, in the same poll, when asked which party has “more realistic and well thought through policies”?
Labour 31%.
Conservatives 51%.

There are some on this board who suggest that media influence is overplayed.

After seeing the front pages today, the laughable "balance" that is our broadcast media (including Question Time as alluded to above) I am not sure you can overplay that influence

But of course its all Corbyns fault isn't it?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:22 am

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... rs-shelter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One in three tenants borrow money to pay rent, says Shelter

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:24 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Mrs May really has no grasp on reality. This from the BBC
Conservative PM Theresa May will claim Labour has "deserted" working-class voters as she campaigns in the north-east of England on Friday.
She will pledge to campaign "in all corners" of the UK to reach those who have been "abandoned by Labour".
She will say that people have voted Labour for generations but many are "appalled" by Jeremy Corbyn's beliefs.
[...]
Mrs May will say his programme represents a return to "the disastrous socialist policies of the 1970s".
"Proud and patriotic working-class people in towns and cities across Britain have not deserted the Labour Party - Jeremy Corbyn has deserted them," she is expected to say.
"We respect that parents and grandparents taught their children and grandchildren that Labour was a party that shared their values and stood up for their community.
""Proud and patriotic working-class people But across the country today, traditional Labour supporters are increasingly looking at what Jeremy Corbyn believes in and are appalled."
Does she have the faintest idea what was happening in the North East in the 1970s? Or even who was in power at the time?

Proud and patriotic working-class people

Patriotism is the last resort of the scoundrel - Samuel Johnson (he was probably actually referring at the time to jingoism which in that its blind or false patriotism seems quite apposite in this case)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:25 am

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... ing-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If people in work struggle with rent, what hope for people out of work?
Dawn Foster

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:28 am

ScarletGas wrote:This also from the Guardian on the logic of the British electorate

Poll position

A Comres poll for the Daily Mirror shows several of the policies in Labour’s leaked manifesto hit the right (left?) spot for voters. A majority supported nationalising energy companies (49% v 24% opposed); railways (52% v 22%); and Royal Mail (50% v 25%). A ban on zero-hours contracts won 71% for and 16% against. Some 65% (v 24%) backed raising income tax on those earning over £80,000. And 78% favour retaining the ban on foxhunting.
But, in the same poll, when asked which party has “more realistic and well thought through policies”?
Labour 31%.
Conservatives 51%.

There are some on this board who suggest that media influence is overplayed.

After seeing the front pages today, the laughable "balance" that is our broadcast media (including Question Time as alluded to above) I am not sure you can overplay that influence

But of course its all Corbyns fault isn't it?

1. You have to win in the world as it is, not as you'd wish it to be. Complaining about the press is like complaining about the weather.

2. The press have much less influence than they once did. That is good and bad. Corbyn is a symptom of the Canary-fication of the UK press.

3. In 2001, every paper save the Mail and Telegraph backed Labour. Newspapers tend to back the party they think will win.

4. The problem with the popularity of each individual free pony policy has been explained.

5. It isn't primarily Corbyn's fault, no. Labour's problems are structural, and mean it can't win again. Corbyn makes things worse of course, for many reasons. He is so obviously incompetent that even if his history were different he is a drag.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:31 am

Good LRB piece, whatever your views

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n10/tom-crewe ... ll-be-left" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two loathed people, but this is a very good interview

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/to ... r-campbell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:45 am

Was May given a flat cap to wear?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:54 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:The Lib Dems have tried to make that argument

Not seeing the benefit really as far as I can see

Surely if Remain was the overriding subject then they should be 10 points higher at least?

With the government and main opposition appearing to agree that leaving the single market is inevitable, a consensus has been created that a minority party with 9 MPs will always struggle to challenge. Only complete consensus among all opposition parties that the Tory government interpretation of Brexit is wrong and not in the country's interests would ever have had a chance of combatting the right wing hard Brexit narrative. A slim chance, yes, but if like me you believe that leaving the single market will have devastating economic consequences that will impact disproportionately on the poorest, I feel it's important to keep pointing out the recklessness of what the Tories are doing, whether people are ready to listen or not. Labour is the official opposition, it has a duty to oppose, especially when it knows what the Tory government is proposing is damaging to the national interest.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 9:57 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ion-family" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have no children, who will care for you when you’re old?
Sonia Sodha

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:00 am

(Hogg/Hailsham reference if anybody is not interested)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:09 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/opin ... state.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May's vapid vision.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:13 am

From your previous contributions I know the last thing you are is naïve

To deny that the press/media does not significantly influence how we have got to the "world as it is" really is naïve. The written press influences its readers day after day by obfuscation and omission in the interests of the owners.

On your second point I hear this a lot. When the Today programme stops following the agenda of the Daily Mail and The Telegraph I may start to believe it.

There is some truth in comment 3 but you have to ask how they decide who will win. Rupert Murdoch backed Tony Blair, not for any altruistic intentions, but because it suited his own agenda.

Sorry not sure I understand comment 4 but comment 5,especially the last comment (and please bear in mind I am no "Corbynista") is just an observation based on your own imperfect knowledge (just the same as mine would be) rather than (as presented) a fact. It might be (and probably is) the general publics view but we come back to the question where does that view come from and how is it influenced?

I will not stop complaining about the press on pure expediency grounds (as you seem to suggest) It is, in my view (please note that) my view, a corrupting influence on our democratic process and as such should be called out on its failings and bias at every opportunity.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:18 am

ScarletGas wrote:From your previous contributions I know the last thing you are is naïve

To deny that the press/media does not significantly influence how we have got to the "world as it is" really is naïve. The written press influences its readers day after day by obfuscation and omission in the interests of the owners.

On your second point I hear this a lot. When the Today programme stops following the agenda of the Daily Mail and The Telegraph I may start to believe it.

There is some truth in comment 3 but you have to ask how they decide who will win. Rupert Murdoch backed Tony Blair, not for any altruistic intentions, but because it suited his own agenda.

Sorry not sure I understand comment 4 but comment 5,especially the last comment (and please bear in mind I am no "Corbynista") is just an observation based on your own imperfect knowledge (just the same as mine would be) rather than (as presented) a fact. It might be (and probably is) the general publics view but we come back to the question where does that view come from and how is it influenced?

I will not stop complaining about the press on pure expediency grounds (as you seem to suggest) It is, in my view (please note that) my view, a corrupting influence on our democratic process and as such should be called out on its failings and bias at every opportunity.

I read the same survey you did. One of the respondents on Twitter pointed out that some very right-wing policies (e.g. stop all foreign aid, stop all immigration for two years) poll even better.

Can't imagine why that might be, if the media has little to no influence...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:20 am

If the press is irrelevant why do countries invest so much in propaganda, why is the press/communications officer so important (eg Alistair Campbell. And how often do we criticise Milne on here?)

Also the first thing to be jumped on and the lat thing to be allowed in a dictatorship is a free press

I don't think we have a press in the UK in the way that would be considered free

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:25 am

ScarletGas wrote:From your previous contributions I know the last thing you are is naïve

To deny that the press/media does not significantly influence how we have got to the "world as it is" really is naïve. The written press influences its readers day after day by obfuscation and omission in the interests of the owners.

On your second point I hear this a lot. When the Today programme stops following the agenda of the Daily Mail and The Telegraph I may start to believe it.

There is some truth in comment 3 but you have to ask how they decide who will win. Rupert Murdoch backed Tony Blair, not for any altruistic intentions, but because it suited his own agenda.

Sorry not sure I understand comment 4 but comment 5,especially the last comment (and please bear in mind I am no "Corbynista") is just an observation based on your own imperfect knowledge (just the same as mine would be) rather than (as presented) a fact. It might be (and probably is) the general publics view but we come back to the question where does that view come from and how is it influenced?

I will not stop complaining about the press on pure expediency grounds (as you seem to suggest) It is, in my view (please note that) my view, a corrupting influence on our democratic process and as such should be called out on its failings and bias at every opportunity.

That the general public are suffering from false consciousness, caused by being brain washed by the press, was a common Labour trope in the 80s. New Labour tried to get away from that.

It is back again with a vengeance.

Maybe the people don't know what is best for them, and will choose the wrong thing. Democracy will often lead to the wrong result (see Brexit). Leninists have a solution to that problem. The electorate and how democracies work are who you should be blaming, not the weather or the press.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:26 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:If the press is irrelevant why do countries invest so much in propaganda, why is the press/communications officer so important (eg Alistair Campbell. And how often do we criticise Milne on here?)

Also the first thing to be jumped on and the lat thing to be allowed in a dictatorship is a free press

I don't think we have a press in the UK in the way that would be considered free

Again, nobody says the press is irrelevant, anymore than a farmer would claim that the rain is irrelevant to whether the crops grow.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:41 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
ScarletGas wrote:From your previous contributions I know the last thing you are is naïve

To deny that the press/media does not significantly influence how we have got to the "world as it is" really is naïve. The written press influences its readers day after day by obfuscation and omission in the interests of the owners.

On your second point I hear this a lot. When the Today programme stops following the agenda of the Daily Mail and The Telegraph I may start to believe it.

There is some truth in comment 3 but you have to ask how they decide who will win. Rupert Murdoch backed Tony Blair, not for any altruistic intentions, but because it suited his own agenda.

Sorry not sure I understand comment 4 but comment 5,especially the last comment (and please bear in mind I am no "Corbynista") is just an observation based on your own imperfect knowledge (just the same as mine would be) rather than (as presented) a fact. It might be (and probably is) the general publics view but we come back to the question where does that view come from and how is it influenced?

I will not stop complaining about the press on pure expediency grounds (as you seem to suggest) It is, in my view (please note that) my view, a corrupting influence on our democratic process and as such should be called out on its failings and bias at every opportunity.
That the general public are suffering from false consciousness, caused by being brain washed by the press, was a common Labour trope in the 80s. New Labour tried to get away from that.

It is back again with a vengeance.

Maybe the people don't know what is best for them, and will choose the wrong thing. Democracy will often lead to the wrong result (see Brexit). Leninists have a solution to that problem. The electorate and how democracies work are who you should be blaming, not the weather or the press.

I don't think you really read my whole post. I am blaming the electorate (for allowing themselves to be hoodwinked by media/press interests) Not sure I understand your logic on absolving the press of all imperfections (which you seem to suggest) and why the weather!

I will not get into a prolonged argument with you, which on the basis of this nonsense of a reply, it seems you want. I have better things to do than indulge in non productive arguments with people of closed minds. I wont be able to change your mind and you will not change mine so lets leave it there shall we?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:42 am

Morning all

Jim Waterson‏Verified account @jimwaterson 5m5 minutes ago
More
Exclusive: Lib Dems tell BuzzFeed their manifesto will include a commitment to a fully legalised cannabis market.

That's...erm...brave.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:43 am

ScarletGas wrote:
I will not get into a prolonged argument with you, which on the basis of this nonsense of a reply, it seems you want. I have better things to do than indulge in non productive arguments with people of closed minds. I wont be able to change your mind and you will not change mine so lets leave it there shall we?

Yes.

No doubt I too am suffering from an irredeemable false consciousness.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:43 am

https://www.ft.com/content/896845e0-362 ... beb0903fa3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tories eye post-death tax to fund social care

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:43 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all

Jim Waterson‏Verified account @jimwaterson 5m5 minutes ago
More
Exclusive: Lib Dems tell BuzzFeed their manifesto will include a commitment to a fully legalised cannabis market.
That's...erm...brave.

Unless there's a photo of a pledge being signed by the leader, I don't believe it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:44 am

There are many reasons why people vote the way they do - tribally, because they like one policy, because they know the candidate etc etc. My personal views on this are set out below

In some elections the press matters more than at other times, especially when you have a popular Government and things are not that exciting in the political sphere (2001 comes to mind)

The press in that case follow the trend...

In some elections though the press matter a great deal and I think 2017 (and 2015, perhaps even 2010) is a good example

We know from studies that the press, including the BBC, is biased against jeremy Corbyn for whatever reason. The printed media is not surprising as the vast majority is owned by Conservatives who could not accept a Labour Government for business reasons (Leveson and media ownership would be a first point of call). The BBC has too many conflict of interests and is not happy with a non-conformist such as Corbyn. Sky is going to be bought by Murdoch after the election so he will have even more domination then

This media bias matters if it is used to drive people's perception of the truth. Most people got their views of Miliband and Corbyn throught he media. As with May and Farron - May is clearly allowed to swan through this campaign with no criticism - hardly ever features and the top of a page - and if she does it is in a positive way. hague had the same problem with Blair - he used to beat him at PMQ time and again but all we ever saw was the mockery of him in the press

We had QT last night where a Tory councillor was allowed to ask a question, be asked his opinion on other things and then appeared on 5 Live with no-one being the wiser....imagine if that had been SNP or Labour?

So many people believe the wrong things - look at the public perception survey, especially on immigration and social security. Miles off - where do they get perception from?

I find this reluctance to accept the influence of the media strange - I would have thought it was obvious that a lot of people's perceptions come from the press - and that can have an influence in an election where Brexit has torn apart the tribal voting patterns and people are not so sure about their vote

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:49 am

Leveson was hugely significant and the 2015 election pivotal. Ed Miliband was within reach and as such the overspent Tory campaign in the marginals was crucial and decisive. Why did Ed Miliband fail? Because of the Scottish referendum I suspect, a huge but calculated risk plotted by George Osborne when he should have been focused on what ended up as his "omnishambles" budget of 2012. I never understood why Ed Miliband's 2014 conference speech didn't completely pivot around the Indy ref result and what it meant going forward. I assumed two speeches would have been prepared to convey Labour's response, depending on the outcome. Everyone focused on the fact that Ed forgot to mention the deficit, ridiculously of course as it was a fake concern the Tories have ditched now it's become inconvenient, but there was very little comment on the lack of a carefully considered and comprehensive response to the referendum. It was Labour's opportunity to attempt to launch a new relationship and vision for Labour in Scotland. I think the impression given by Ed's conference speech that Labour had given Scotland scant thought either way was fatal. Whatever the reasons for Labour losing in 2015, the country made a choice then which was going to set us on one of two very different paths and there is now no walking back to that moment and taking the other one, the one where politicians had more clout than newspaper owners, where a proprietor rocked by scandal could galvanize support for press reform. That moment has passed and who knows when the next opportunity may present itself? Pessimistic I know, but nothing that has happened since 2015 to shake my impression that that was the one Labour had to win because if the Tories got in again they would double down, protect the press, change the boundaries and generally lock Labour out indefinitely. If you look at the Tory friendly stooge from HSBC placed at the BBC and the funding threats issued to C4, it's very clear that Labour are operating in a rigged arena. What's also clear is there is nothing they can do about it, but play the game or at least pretend to play the game until they get the power and opportunity to change the game. Alas, such an opportunity is looking ever further away.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:57 am

Labour made a mistake in agreeing to have their 2014 party conference just days after the Scottish referendum. They should have insisted on the usual order and that the LibDems went first as is normal (instead of after the Tories, as they did on that one off occasion)

More time to gather their thoughts on what had happened could hardly have done any harm. Instead, what little there was on Scotland then came across as triumphalist and rubbing "yes" voters noses in it. Combined with the likes of Jim Murphy openly celebrating with Tories after the result, it left a bad impression for many.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:02 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-ban ... ago-right/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The woman raffling her London home for £3.75m bought it three years ago through right-to-buy – for just £360k

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:05 am

http://www.24housing.co.uk/news/tory-ho ... nversions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory housing target questioned after slowdown in office conversions

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:06 am

When do the Tories share some policies?

No-one can accuse Labour of being shy about theirs

All the substance from one side at the moment

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:06 am

I would add that Labour isn't the only party that is vulnerable to the power of the press. Since Maastricht the right wing tabloid press has fed the British public a drip-drip backdrop of anti-EU, anti-immigration propaganda that ultimately, although the Tory party may currently be trying to exploit it for electoral gain, may prove to come back to bite them on the ass in the end. Regardless of what May says is her aim, she has to deliver a Brexit outcome that satisfies both her party's City and business donors on the one hand, and Brexit voters and the tax-dodging foreign owned press on the other. It is quite within the realms of possibility that she will fail on one side or the other, losing either voters or donations and will run into trouble at the next election. But that, of course, is why she is having an election now, to buy herself two more years to try to square the circle. This reality is what left wing hopes mostly ride on. Losing the minimum amount of seats possible to ensure the best chance of capitalising next time being the aim in June.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:08 am

howsillyofme1 wrote: I find this reluctance to accept the influence of the media strange -

Again, who is it you think is doing that?

Of course the media has an influence. The idea that the BBC is dominated by Tories, as some think, is a bit odd for anyone who knows people in the media, but there we are. (and no, I don't think Laura K is all that good either, and I deliberately avoid Today).

The point is not that the media, like the weather, is important. The point is that Labour has to win in the world as it is. Using the media as an excuse for failure, as will inevitably happen on June 9th, is to give up.

Most of the media bias against Corbyn reflects general opinion. Yes, there is a percentage of people in the Uk who passionately back him. There is a much larger number who think he is useless. That is going to get reflected back at us by the media. Having a leader who has opposed all military action by the west everywhere since 1945 is a bit tricky in media terms.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:12 am

Compulsory "strong and stable" chanting.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:13 am

Retirement age for MPs.

Should parties have a rule for this, as we do for judges?

Michael Crick has been posting the age of some of the MPs standing. Looking at the list, most of them have never troubled the scorers in political terms, and I wonder whether a mandatory retirement age would help.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:14 am

Utterly bizarre decision by the LibDems not to put up a candidate in Skipton and Ripon - they have usually come second there.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:22 am

http://www.rcgp.org.uk/news/2017/may/st ... -rcgp.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RCGP

On GP vacancies.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 May, 2017 11:27 am

http://www.rcpch.ac.uk/child-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RCPCH/CPAG report.